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#974155 - 07/13/10 04:44 AM Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey?
JenniferL
Unregistered


I feel so terrible!

I just found my female sugar glider with her foot stuck in her bonding pouch. She was terribly thirsty and was drinking the whole time I was clipping away at the little string her back foot got caught on. I am seriously sick of that pouch, and I have removed it from the cage. Only homemade pouches that I sew myself will ever be allowed back in there -- and screw those little screen windows -- that's what she got caught on.

The longest her foot could have been stuck in there is 24 hours (she was out last feeding), but I can see the toenails have dark red quicks (the blood within the nail) so the circulation was definitely cut off. After waiting a few minutes to let the foot recover, she was using it just fine -- however the moment the male saw her he made a mad dash to gnaw at her foot!!!

It looked like he was going to eat her foot off -- and she was going to let him! After screaming at my fiance to google for the e-collar instructions, I snatched the female and took her into the bathroom and kept the male in their cage to cool off.

To my horror, after "rescuing" the female from hubby glider the cannibal (perhaps I should name him Hannibal), the female started grooming -- and them gnawing at her own foot! It's midnight, so I can't take her to my exotic vet until they open in the morning. My fiance cut out a makeshift e-collar while I did my best to keep the female from eating her own foot. We were worried our quick collar would slip off, so we took some self-adhesive pet wrap (we keep this in pet emergency kit for our dogs) and wrapped her foot as well -- if she gets out of the e-collar, she will have to rip off the bandage before she can gnaw at her foot.

I spent the last half hour feeding momma some pulverized boiled egg mixed with applesauce (organic sugar free), gliderade, and berries & bugs powder. I also gave her water. I fed her from a syringe until she started refusing it. This is their normal "wake up feeding" so since she was stuck in the pouch I wanted to make sure she wasn't dehydrated -- especially flopping about with the e-collar on.

Here's the last bit of bad news: she has a joey. When I adopted these guys, the OOP date should have made him 2 weeks OOP, but from appearance (open eyes, slightly fluffy) he looks more like 3 weeks. He is drinking fine from momma, but went straight for the water/food mix in the syringe when I fed momma so I gave him some as well. Since momma has a cone on and can't groom him, should I be taking care of him as if he were a rejected joey?

Last but not least -- I am not letting poppa come near the female's foot. Especially because he tried to eat it. So I am leaving him in the cage. Should I hang momma in a zipped-shut pouch within the cage, keep her hanging around my neck, or put her in a nearby travel cage?? Will the dad "forget" about her and baby? How long can they be seperated while mother recovers without ruining their bond with each other?


So, in summary:
- Mom's foot stuck; going to vet ASAP
- Any suggestions for mom's foot in the meanwhile?? I have Baytril in the fridge from a different ret (rat) -- should I give her any OTC pain meds/baytril in the short term?
- Baby is 2 weeks (appears to be 3 weeks) OOP and momma is wearing a cone. Should I do special things to care for him while mother is in the ecollar?
- Dad is seperated from mom/baby. Will he forget them if seperated too long? How long? Supervised visits??

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#974156 - 07/13/10 04:48 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey? [Re: ]
JenniferL
Unregistered


EDIT: The e-collar just fell off, and she's not going after her foot that's all bandaged up...

So maybe she can care for the joey and stay in the cage with the male -- as long as they leave the bandage wrap alone. Anyone have any thoughts?

The bandage wrap is that self-adhesive bandage roll that they use for pets -- it sticks to itself as long as it's relatively tight. I was worried about putting more pressure on the already-circulation-deprived foot, but it's better than allowing them to eat the foot off entirely.

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#974159 - 07/13/10 04:58 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey? [Re: ]
kylie
Unregistered


just whatch her close leave her and joey together in your other cage until you go to vet with her then let dad babysit until you get back they should be fine apart for a little bit you can put cage next to each other they my through a fit but her foot will not get injured more

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#974160 - 07/13/10 05:10 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey? [Re: ]
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered


You need to keep her with you until you can get to the vet. Make sure she doesn't mess with her foot anymore.
They baby needs to stay with mom even when you take her to the vet. The vet can check the baby as well just as a little "well-check".
Ask the vet to give mom some pain meds. The pain is what's causing her to mess with the foot. She may also need to be on some antibiotics to prevent infection. She may have broken a toe or the whole foot when she was trying to get free from the pouch.

I don't recomend giving the baby the stuff you mentioned. If the baby needs to be supplimented, which it will if she's on medicines, then use puppy esbilac formula. Make sure it's the powdered kind. Mix one large scoop formula to two large scoops warm water. Then add in 10-15 drops of canola oil. Mix it well and then feed the baby .5-1cc every 2-3 hours. You will need to weigh the baby every day at the same time to make sure it's gaining weigh properly. Also do the tent test a few times a day to make sure it's not getting dehydrated. You will also need to stimulate it to go potty before and after every feeding. I find that a qtip works best for this.

I hope you are able to get mom in to see the vets first thing this morning. Please keep us updated on how she's doing and how the vet visit goes! If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

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#974161 - 07/13/10 05:12 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ]
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered


I forgot to add that you will need to keep mom and dad seperated until her foot is totally healed. You can let the dad babysit in between feedings. The dad won't forget mom and baby. Keep their cages right next to each other so they can communicate and won't get lonely. You can also do supervised playtime with them. Just make sure dad doesn't mess with mom's foot.



Regarding the medicine. Do NOT give her any of the medicine you have without talking to the vet first. It is most likely the wrong dosage and strength.


Edited by NavyChiefWife (07/13/10 05:15 AM)
Edit Reason: Added info

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#974162 - 07/13/10 05:23 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ]
JenniferL
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: NavyChiefWife
Regarding the medicine. Do NOT give her any of the medicine you have without talking to the vet first. It is most likely the wrong dosage and strength.


Oh, I'm not going to home treat without someone knowledgeable on this board telling me that it would help the female -- but as for dosages, my vet had a great big talk about how to calculate the proper mg/kg dosage for baytril because I have to cut my own medications for different sized rats (pre-emptive colony treatment for respiratory illness that popped up in one rat).

I'll pick up some puppy ebsilac as I head to the vet tomorrow. Going to try and pull an all-nighter if I can. The female is leaving the foot alone since it's all wrapped up -- so hopefully things will stay that way.

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#974165 - 07/13/10 05:29 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ]
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered


I don't recommend cutting the dosage yourself. A eat is nothing like a glider. I actually had a bad vet try to give my glider a "rat's dosage" of medicine one time. She didn't know anything about gliders and decided to just guess and chose a rat dosage because they were about the same size. Which was very wrong. Also gliders metabolisms are much different than a rat/rodent. Luckily I realized what she dis and I got a hold of a glider vet and he told me that it could have killed my glider had I given it to him!
Please just wait until you have the vet give you the medicine.
We are not able to tell you a dosage either because we are not vets and are not legally allowed to do so.

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#974166 - 07/13/10 05:37 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
Originally Posted By: JenniferL

So, in summary:
- Mom's foot stuck; going to vet ASAP
- Any suggestions for mom's foot in the meanwhile?? I have Baytril in the fridge from a different ret (rat) -- should I give her any OTC pain meds/baytril in the short term?
- Baby is 2 weeks (appears to be 3 weeks) OOP and momma is wearing a cone. Should I do special things to care for him while mother is in the ecollar?
- Dad is seperated from mom/baby. Will he forget them if seperated too long? How long? Supervised visits??


Brandy gave you great advice! I agree that you should take mom to the vet asap. Is her foot normal color again, meaning the blood circulation is back? Supervised visits is great as dad will help mom with the joey.

Originally Posted By: NavyChiefWife

Regarding the medicine. Do NOT give her any of the medicine you have without talking to the vet first. It is most likely the wrong dosage and strength.


I couldn't agree more, although you and your vet discussed dosages, just give the vet a call first to make sure what to give and the dosage as well since mom is breastfeeding.
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#974252 - 07/13/10 09:18 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: Gizmogirl]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28206
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
You've been given excellent advice here. Hopefully your vet visit will be right away this morning so mom can get on meds and back home. Poor thing. I'm glad you found her when you did. This, I think, is a good time to remind everyone to check on their gliders often. When I go past the cage, I stick my hand in the pouch. I do this often and I don't feel bad about bothering them. Most of the time, I get a few licks when I do it so I don't think they mind. :-) I think it's good practice because issues like this will happen so quickly and because they're deep in their pouch, we don't always know right away. Jennifer..just to make myself clear, I am NOT coming down on you for not checking....I just thought this would be a good opportunity to bring it up because people will be paying attention to this thread. You're doing exactly what you should be doing and from how it sounds, have really kept your head on straight through all of this. Mom is lucky to have you.

Please continue to update us - we'll be anxious to hear what happened at the vet!
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#974254 - 07/13/10 09:28 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: DCMuffin]
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Washington
Jennifer, I sent you a pm! Please call the vet number I sent you so that you can get the emergency vet number that is listed there. They are open after hours. I hope you get your glider's foot taken care of ASAP. I feel so bad that I wasn't online early this am when you started this post!
_________________________
Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project





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#974276 - 07/13/10 09:47 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: tjlong]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Please update!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#974282 - 07/13/10 09:57 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ValkyrieMome]
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Washington
It's just 8:03 am here. She may not have contacted a vet yet. I wonder if she tried any of the emergency vets that we have in our area? Hope all is okay!
_________________________
Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project





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#974511 - 07/13/10 03:15 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: tjlong]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
Any updates?
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#974517 - 07/13/10 03:21 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: Gizmogirl]
JenniferL
Unregistered


Momma is currently in surgery to remove the toes on her left hind foot. I will let you know when she gets out.

I talked with the vet and she is going to use a joey-safe antibiotic, but I went ahead and picked up some esbilac anyway as a "just in case" -- extra feedings won't hurt. She said it is the same antibiotic she uses for treating joeys.

I had two options -- momma glider had feeling in one of her four main toes, and up to the tip of her "thumb" toe. The vet said that I could try to take her home and see if feeling returns, but I opted to get them removed now since she can keep the palm and part of the thumb, rather than wait and have it potentially spread and lose the whole foot. For anyone who's curious, I was quoted in the upper range of $400 for the surgery.



I will continue to keep everyone updated as often as I can. She should be out of surgery in a half hour to an hour, so please keep momma glider in your thoughts and prayers for a safe surgery and recovery.


Edited by JenniferL (07/13/10 03:22 PM)

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#974530 - 07/13/10 03:33 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28206
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Jennifer...I'd like to say that you have done a fantastic job of handling what happened - mommy is a lucky girl! Thank you for updating us and please continue to keep us posted. I, for one, am thinking about you and hoping for continued success for mom and baby!
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#974549 - 07/13/10 03:58 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: DCMuffin]
chattrbabe Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4108
Loc: Phoenix AZ
hug2 I hope she is going to be okay!!!!
_________________________
Ash

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#974552 - 07/13/10 04:02 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: chattrbabe]
saturngirl Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 2448
Loc: Columbia, SC
hug2 Hugs and prayers being sent hoping momma glider will make a quick recovery
_________________________
*~*Tara*~*
5~suggies "mini" Cooper & Sophie
Paisley, Maci & Smurf
2 ~cats Kia and Gabby~
1 ~silly puppy Darci~

Rest in Peace Chili Pepper dog...you will always have a special place in my heart





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#974556 - 07/13/10 04:20 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: saturngirl]
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4212
Loc: Garland, TX
You've done a wonderful job! I, for one, think you made the right decision - infection can so easily overwhelm these little ones. cry I also applaud you for being prepared 'just in case' for the joey. clap

Thank you for the update, keep them coming! We are all checking just to see how it is going with mama, papa and babies!
_________________________
Molly, son & husband:

Chairman Meow
Oscar & Thomas
Sam, Diego, Delilah, Delia :wfb:
Nevada, Noel
Marcel, Dakota, Latte
Dexter, Didi, Almond, Joy and Fitz
:grey:
Karl,Lenny,Jynxie,Chamille, Kee & Mr. Beans in my heart forever.
Teaching teenagers-part joy, part guerilla warfare! :rbridge:

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#974557 - 07/13/10 04:21 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: saturngirl]
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: In paradise
Prayers for mama gliding your way. I'll check back later for an update.
_________________________
Elena
http://hillhavensugargliders.webs.com
TGI
SGGA

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#974565 - 07/13/10 04:37 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: hpyhwn2003]
BarblovesSuggies Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 101
Loc: Rose Hill, KS
Prayers and Hugs for Mamma and Joey!!!!
_________________________
Barbara

Jeremy the loving husband
Kiddos~~Justin~Tyler~Cora~Erica
Dogs~~Pete~Abbie~Bo
Suggies~~~~~~~
:bb: Maui and Boo
:leu: Arthur

:wfb: Ashling, Gigi, Kiki and Peek

:grey: Keeva, Eveleen and Lulu



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#974585 - 07/13/10 05:35 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: saturngirl]
JenniferL
Unregistered


Momma glider is home, all is well. She's still quite groggy and is staying in her travel cage for now. She was eating some of her food when I got to the vet to pick her up.

She has a white bandage around her foot for now, which will be removed in a week. I am assuming we'll have to put on another less serious bandage wrap on until the foot is totally healed, and will discuss it with the vet when I return in 1 week to have the first bandage removed.

She has been given both a daily antibiotic and a daily anti-inflammatory medication (EDIT: pain medication). For those interested, they are called Metacam and Trimethoprim Sulfa. I have to give them orally, which will be "fun" -- I plan on mixing it into some yogurt or fruit juice/puree to make it more palatable.


Edited by JenniferL (07/13/10 05:50 PM)

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#974589 - 07/13/10 05:44 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ]
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: In paradise
So glad to her she handled that so well. Now on to healing.

Is she in an ecollar? And how about pain meds or does one of the ones she's been prescribed have some in it?
_________________________
Elena
http://hillhavensugargliders.webs.com
TGI
SGGA

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#974592 - 07/13/10 05:50 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: hpyhwn2003]
JenniferL
Unregistered


She is not in an e-collar, but her foot is pretty well wrapped.

Metacam is actually a pain medication -- now that I look it up. The other is an antibiotic. I don't know how I got mixed up with a anti-inflammatory, sorry.

If I need to use an e-collar, I'd rather purchase a premade one for gliders, because my homemade one slipped off quite easily and was so hard to put on.

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#974665 - 07/13/10 07:17 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Metacam is an anti-inflamitory/pain medication. It is like "advil". Often times, pain is caused by swelling. Reduce the swelling and the pain eases.

Be aware though that it is advised not to give metacam to gliders for more than 3 days as it can be very hard on the internal organs. I suggest you talk to your vet and see if you can get some Torb to give (either in addition to, or instead of starting on day 4) so as to not risk liver damage.

I hope she heals quickly for you.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#974688 - 07/13/10 07:50 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: Dancing]
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: In paradise
The TGI store carrys the ecollars for gliders, link in my signature. The snap is the easiest to put on. I'm sure more people will chine in on the use of an ecollar, but you really need to have one in your emergency kit for times like this. And I highly suggest that you go ahead and order one now. Untill you get it keep a close eye to make sure Mama doesn't try to take off the bandage, that could lead to trouble.
_________________________
Elena
http://hillhavensugargliders.webs.com
TGI
SGGA

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#974781 - 07/13/10 11:22 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: Dancing]
JenniferL
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Dancing
Be aware though that it is advised not to give metacam to gliders for more than 3 days as it can be very hard on the internal organs. I suggest you talk to your vet and see if you can get some Torb to give (either in addition to, or instead of starting on day 4) so as to not risk liver damage.


I'll give them a call when they open tomorrow morning about this. Thanks for letting me know!

I also ordered two of the ecollars from the glider initiative store, thanks for the recommendation! I couldn't find any premade ecollars when I did a google search, only instructions on DIY (where my homemade one failed).

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#974794 - 07/13/10 11:42 PM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Thanks for continuing to update!

You have no idea how many people read these threads and pray for your glider, but don't necessarily post. When someone has an emergency and doesn't come back to update - it is very cruel to us! We just continue to pray and worry.

hug2
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#974805 - 07/14/10 12:38 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
I am so glad to hear mom is doing ok! Jennifer, you are a wonderful glider mommy! Please keep us posted!thumb
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#974808 - 07/14/10 12:52 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: BarblovesSuggies]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Baytril is known for causing mastitis in nursing sugar gliders. I would watch very carefully if it is being given, if the mother has pain caused by mastitis she may harm the joey for trying to nurse, or the joey may become sick. I have lost joeys to Baytril treatments before I knew about this. Also remember that no antibiotic is effective without a complete series of treatments, without the complete set it can just make an infection grow immune to the antibiotic, which is another reason to wait for your vet to prescribe something for her.

Edit: Also, when giving medications it's very important that the dosage is taken entirely. You can mix it with fruit juice but make sure it's no more than she will finish. What I do is mix the meds with sugar water (or something like syrup or honey) and factor the amount I've mixed into the measured dose. If you're using a syringe you could also pick up the required amount of meds and then pick up the fruit juice in the same syringe, which will mix it together.


Edited by kitsune (07/14/10 12:58 AM)
Edit Reason: added meds suggestion
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#974813 - 07/14/10 01:00 AM Re: Momma's Foot Stuck, vet closed, what abut joey [Re: kitsune]
7glider7
Unregistered


Jennifer, may I ask what vet you are using in the Kirkland area? I'm hoping you've found Dr. Cathy Johnson Delaney at Eastside Avian and Exotics; she sees my gliders and she's great.

Also, should you ever have an after hours emergency again (I hope not, but just in case), ACCES here in Seattle is open 24 hours a day. They are not as glider knowledgable but better than nothing. I had to take Tanooki there once to get sub-Qed because she got dehydrated, and they did a great job with her...probably saved her life.

PM me if you need any more info on Dr. Cathy or ACCES.

Glad you got her into a vet!

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