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#977794 - 07/19/10 07:28 PM Help my intro is not going as planned!
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
so let me start from the beginning;
I have had my 1yr 5month old female's cage setting beside my 6month old neutered males cage. They have been side by side for about 3 months because of neuter issues...

I first tried intro. in the tub with toys, fleece & mealies every where. My Female jumped out of the tub did not say hi but for a near second. I tried 3 time's to put her in the tub she did not like it so I gave up that night. I gave them a couple weeks before second intro since my male was healing from his neuter...

we tried this outside her cage and she went inside and chirped for my male to come in. I sat there and watched my male rub his chest and head on everything and the female would rub over the spots he did, everything seemed fine. Then she got sick of him rubbing him self all over her pouch she nipped him ran off then came an nipped him again while she sat in a ball like shape I took my male from her grasp and stopped intro that night it lasted 15minutes.

Then Last night I tried once more this time in his cage after a really good pressure was and a good rub down to make sure there were no smells left on any part of the cage. I put a new cage set inside as well that niether one has ever used.

They both went inside the pouch. He rubbed his head on her head for about 15min. then they got out ran around not really interacting with each other. He went back into the pouch she fallowed. She rolled onto her back looked at him while he was sniffing her cloaca, then She started lunging and bitting at his face repeatedly, No blood was drawn. Even with me pushing each glider to one side of the pouch while removing the other she still tried to bite. I let her cool off tried again in her cage where she seemed to feel most comfy. and well here is the video's on what happend. Kisuke the male is the WFB and Tiva is the female the standard grey.

the video's are a little dark. For some reason photobucket makes them darker looking. If you want to see a better one pm me thank you.

The first video is of them meeting in her cage after their first spat.
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...elastattack.mp4

This one is of the last time I tried intro with him in my hand and he is clicking at her when they touch noses
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...etingSativa.mp4

I am starting to thing they are not a good match for each other. cry
I am torn inside on what to do.

Plus this is my first time introducing a male to a female I have only introduced female to female successfully in the past and when they both turned a yr old they stopped liking one another as much and the female that I want to pair with my male is from that group of gliders that I had to separate.....

Any advice helps at this point I will try anything......


Edited by Damiana (07/19/10 07:41 PM)
_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

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#977808 - 07/19/10 07:51 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
B19 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 542
Loc: Luverne, Minnesota
aww I'm sorry intro's are not going good for you! Have you tried switching their pouches and toys back and forth from each cage to get use to each other's smell that way? Sorry, I don't know what to tell you, I've never experienced intros not going well. Someone else will be along shortly and give you more advice! Good luck!
_________________________
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Loving mother to:
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#977811 - 07/19/10 07:56 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: B19]
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
Yes I have switched their pouches back and forth in the cages plus the toys.

My male stopped scenting like he was before he was neutered. I can't even smell him any more....

My female scents like if she is a male... For the last month or so she has decided not to sleep in her pouches only her wheel so every morning I have a tissy fight with her trying to get her to sleep in a pouch clean or all scented up.

So I rub his stuff on her wheel if I can't get her to bed....
_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

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#977892 - 07/20/10 12:25 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
laurensgliders
Unregistered


Your introducing in a neutral place the bathroom which Is a good idea but you shouldn't have any food involved because they might fight over it and nothing should have eachothers sent on it try not putting a cage set in or pouches just the two gliders somewhere neutral territory like the bathroom and have a towel or shirt prepared to break up a fight of it happens.
I'm having the same problem introducing mine they just don't get along:/

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#977910 - 07/20/10 03:59 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: ]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
When I had to do my first intro, I was so tense and had no idea how to go about. With some research and help from a friend, I started the process and wanted to give up several times, but with patience and dedication together with the correct procedures, my gliders became best of friends in a period of 4 months.

Some introductions may never be successful, however, it is rare and only in extreme situations. Mostly intros are successful. While introducing my two males, I found that I needed even more patience than with the bonding process. Tiny spats are normal in the beginning.

I was not able to see anything on your video, sorry. During introductions you need to be stress free, they will feel what you feel and will also respond in that way. Be patient!!! They may become friends instantly, or they may attack each other at first. As I mentioned above, intro’s may take a while and can be extremely simple or a long and slow process. Don’t rush anything and take it at their pace. If you need to, take two steps backwards in order to move one step forward. Gliders may get seriously hurt when they fight and can kill each other. Don't overwhelm the cages with toys. You want them to be curious about each other. If introductions fail the first time around, try again, however, if they ball up and fight, I would reconsider.
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

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#977939 - 07/20/10 07:19 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Gizmogirl]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
From the ears down, the looking warily around and the tense, extremely slow movements plus unwillingness to leave your hand, it shows your glider is not ready to do intros. They are in the "Fight or Flight" mode and are not comfortable at all. It can take several months to intro gliders to each other. You've been given some excellent advice on intros. The only thing left is to be patient and give them more time.

Good luck and breathe! smile
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#978256 - 07/20/10 06:58 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: suggiemom1980]
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
my male in the video was just attacked a few minutes before the video camera got up and running and he started acting slow after she bite him really hard in the middle of his head. other wise what you didn't get to see is he is more then ready for a buddy he chirps and clicks all happily and trys to just groom and love on her but not after she bite him he seems unsure of her since she will not respond to him when he talks to her. The female is the one that seems up set about the whole thing. She want's a buddy one minute and doesn't the next.
which brings me to my next question;

I restarted at step one with intro. they are in different rooms away from one another. I am guessing a week of them apart would be good before I start swapping pouches again so on and so forth.

I have heard in the past that it is harder to pair a older glider with a younger glider. Why is this? my brain is on pause and I can't remember for the life of me. frown


Edited by Damiana (07/20/10 07:01 PM)
_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

http://www.cozyflowers.weebly.com
http://www.sugarsprouts.weebly.com

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#978552 - 07/21/10 08:40 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
Your female is older than the neutered male, correct? If this is the case, I don't see why it should be a problem, dunno maybe I am missing something.
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#978594 - 07/21/10 10:24 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Gizmogirl]
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Washington
I am the breeder for Mistie's boy who she is trying to introduce. He is a very sweet little guy and I know that Mistie is doing everything she can think of and has used the usual methods suggested for intros.

For some reason her girl is just not accepting him. tant She does for a few minutes then goes back into an aggressive mode. I had suggested she pull them completely away from each other and put their cages in separate rooms for a while and then start the process all over.

I recently did an into and it went very well until I put them into a brand new neutral cage. When I did then the male froze and was scared to death for several hours. I kept checking on them and found him in a floor toy (which I realized after the fact I shouldn't have put into the cage at all for the first few nights). When I finally coaxed him out I put them back into a cage that had both their scent on it from trading back and forth. Then they were fine! I guess it just goes to show all gliders accept things in different ways and it really is a trial and error process we go through. dunno

I say take a break from the intros and then start again in a few weeks! agree
_________________________
Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project





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#978848 - 07/21/10 06:19 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: tjlong]
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
Both my glider's have been in separate rooms for 2 nights now tonight will be the third. My female has barked all night long each night so far, my male has not responded back to her and he seems still happy as a clam.

Like my breeder said he is super sweet never met a glider like him. He could almost let me do just about anything to him and he just loves the attention.
Now the female she is a little shy slightly timed at times but coming around it has taken her 1 1/2yrs to get her to trust but she was also a pet store baby so she had little good human contact before I got her.
unlike Kisuke my male that comes from a very responsible breeder that give's lots of love and devotion to him before I got him just as she does with all her gliders smile I am so lucky you found me Tracy again THANK YOU!

sorry got a little off topic but I wanted everyone to understand the temperament I am dealing with each glider. I would like to have there intro go better for next time in a few weeks or so. But the more idea's that anyone can come up with on how or what just maybe work for me since I am having a bit of trouble.

Thank you all for refreshing my memory on the steps of how to do intro's there must be one I am missing or not doing correctly.
All twists and tricks anyone had to do that's not posted please let me know because it's great to hear how other's did intro's. You never know they just might help me and many other's that may be having this same issue.
_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

http://www.cozyflowers.weebly.com
http://www.sugarsprouts.weebly.com

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#978882 - 07/21/10 07:28 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
victoriarose1982 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 2135
Loc: Seattle, Washginton, USA
Hey Misty I was wondering have you tried a double bonding pouch??? A pouch with 2 sections that has a divider in the middle?
_________________________
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Home to now 13 lovely greys!2 mos, and 1 plat mo.:grey: Link, Zelda, Coffee, Crash, Sif, Lily, Thor, Loki, Damiana, Sammy, and Pollux :plat:
and a loving husband

Glide free Hope, Cayden, and Zoey

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#978884 - 07/21/10 07:34 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: victoriarose1982]
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
No I have not tried a double bonding pouch. But I see how that would be beneficial.
Do you know anyone that makes them?
If not maybe I can give it a wirl and see if I can make one or something similar to it.
_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

http://www.cozyflowers.weebly.com
http://www.sugarsprouts.weebly.com

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#978886 - 07/21/10 07:39 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
You might want to try and contact 'queenduck' she makes what is called the MatchMaker pouch which is a double sided pouch.

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#978892 - 07/21/10 07:52 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: LSardou]
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Washington
Mistie can borrow my MatchMaker sissy if she wants. agree I want Kisuke to be happy. smile
_________________________
Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project





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#978964 - 07/21/10 09:45 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: tjlong]
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
Thank you so much Tracy you are a wonderful person.
_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

http://www.cozyflowers.weebly.com
http://www.sugarsprouts.weebly.com

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#979246 - 07/22/10 02:58 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
That is a great idea Rachel. idea I have forgotten that I used a double bonding pouch myself. I am hoping this will work out for you Misty. hug2 Keep us posted. thumb
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#984006 - 07/31/10 11:11 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Gizmogirl]
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
UPDATE;

tonight I am going to start swapping their pouches. I believe they both are ready I haven't heard any calls come from either one of them the last 2 nights and my female is actually sleeping in her pouch again, but she still gets up and goes to her wheel in the middle of the day but at least she has some change going on smile

Kisuke is still being a little sweet heart and he has gotten much larger in the last 2 weeks. His head is now larger round the my thumb it takes 2 of my thumbs to make the size of his head!!! and I have to hold him with both hands now my hands are to small to hold him lol
_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

http://www.cozyflowers.weebly.com
http://www.sugarsprouts.weebly.com

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#984039 - 07/31/10 12:26 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
laugh sounds like you are ready too! thumb Good luck and let us know how everything is going.
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#985241 - 08/02/10 01:13 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Gizmogirl]
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Washington
Mistie, How is it going? I hope the matchmaker pouch helps! I really want your gliders to bond to each other! Kisuke is such a sweetie I hope it works! I would love to see new pics of him now he is growing up!
_________________________
Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project





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#985422 - 08/02/10 06:39 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: tjlong]
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
since I only have swapped the pouches for three nights now I am going to start using the double bonding pouch tomorrow and see how it goes I will let you all know as soon as that happens.
Tiva has not been sleeping in kisuke's pouch much only for a few minutes here and there... She rather stay in her wheel I am going to have to remove her wheel and make her sleep in there. So stubborn she is frown

I will post picture's of kisuke soon wink
_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

http://www.cozyflowers.weebly.com
http://www.sugarsprouts.weebly.com

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#985428 - 08/02/10 06:47 PM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Washington
Quote:
I will post picture's of kisuke soon


clap thumb clap
_________________________
Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project





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#985667 - 08/03/10 04:48 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: tjlong]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
I am hoping since you are taking it real slow that things will work out just great with the bonding. hug2

Keep us posted!
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#990048 - 08/12/10 09:23 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Gizmogirl]
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
So far I have been swapping there pouches every day, but Tiva still rather sleep in her wheel I have taken it away during the day time and she freaked out! for 2 hours while I was cleaning the house she ran around her cage looking for her wheel she would not sleep in nothing. So I decided to give her a smaller wheel and hoped she would not like that to sleep in. well that day she slept in his pouch I had in there but the next day she went back to sleeping in her wheel again.... She kicks out all of the blankets of I give her some of his while she is sleeping in her wheel to. or she will go sleep under her wheel instead.

I don't know what to do at this point to get her to sleep in a pouch of any kind.

I am trying out a sugar comb with her and hope she will sleep in that!

I tried the double bonding pouch they dont seem to mind being side by side but man do they toss and turn a lot before settling in I am doing double bonding pouch all day today I hope this helps to.

well here is some new updated long over do pictures of kisuke. Tiva hates the camera so I try not to bug her sorry soon enough I will have some of her wink




_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

http://www.cozyflowers.weebly.com
http://www.sugarsprouts.weebly.com

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#990056 - 08/12/10 09:43 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
GliderLove13
Unregistered


Awwwwwwwwwww!!!!! Precious!

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#990057 - 08/12/10 09:48 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28206
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Soooooo cute! laugh
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#990090 - 08/12/10 11:34 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: DCMuffin]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
Awe, that is very cute!
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#992142 - 08/16/10 08:37 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Gizmogirl]
Damiana Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 604
Loc: Blue River, Oregon
Thank you everyone he is a cutie!
back on topic;

I have been using the double sided bonding pouch Tracy is letting borrow for a week now.

Both the glider's do just fine in it. No crabbing at each other. Tiva still shows no interest in him even with him that close to her.

He trys to sniff and make clicking sounds at her but she still gives no reply back.

To be completely honest I kinda feel uneasy about doing intro because she seems so distant. I say this because in the last 2 days she has started crabbing at me again but does nothing to back her crab but she won't crab in the double sided pouch or after picking her up.


so confusing someone please help!
_________________________
Misty W.

Loving Husband Steve

1 awesome little skin kid

:grey: Tiva & :wfb: Kisuke

:MO: Madoka & :grey: Ren

:wfb: Esperanza & :Pied: Mr. Handsome

http://www.cozyflowers.weebly.com
http://www.sugarsprouts.weebly.com

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#992659 - 08/17/10 04:48 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: Damiana]
JamieInWA
Unregistered


I wish I could help you with some advice. I haven't had to do intros YET. I am sure someone else will be along with more advice. I would just keep taking it slow for now.

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#992722 - 08/17/10 08:35 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: ]
berryanimalluvrs
Unregistered


I know someone brought up the ages earlier but sometimes it is just hard to have the younger ones accepted by the older ones. Not sure why it is that way but I got a 7mo. old and it took me a few months to do intos and a few "kid" fights. No damage just boundrie setting but now they do well.

Keep at it you are doing good, the bonding pouch is a start. sounds like your little girl may need more of the one on one to settle down and maybe that will help some. JMO

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#992737 - 08/17/10 09:06 AM Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! [Re: ]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
I'd like to try to help you out a bit, and my information is from my experience only, so please take it with a grain of salt and do what's best for you.


I have introduced a number of gliders, some intros went smoothly, others were difficult, and one (only one) didn't work out at all.


Here is what I have learned with intros:

-The female is almost ALWAYS the one that has to accept the male. For some reason, if there is going to be crabbing/lunging, it will come from the female, she is the aggressor.

-The male generally plays the non-dominant role. He will approach the female, get lunged at, and then recede. He will not crab, attack, or show any aggression.


If your female and male are acting like this, than I believe that they (ie SHE) have to have time to accept each other. As long as the male is not engaging in the agressive action (ie attacking her and balling up in a fight) I would let them share a cage for however long it takes for them to get along.


You said your male was not injured, this is normal. The female's bark is worse than her bite. In all of my intros, I have had only one injury and that was a small nip that occurred in the one pair that did not work out (the male showed aggression and they balled up every time I tried to intro them)




Pouch swapping, matchmaking in bonding pouches, tent time, etc are great, but there comes a time where you just have to put the two together, step back (not too far to intervene if absolutely necessary) and relax. It is imperative NOT to intervene. There are only two reasons for intervention on your part:

1. The male shows aggression towards the female (usually results in balling up for more than 2 seconds)

2. Either glider is injured in any way (bitten, nail caught on something etc.)



That's my 2¢ for ya. Intros can be scary, but as long as you stay calm, everything should work out just fine.



If you would like to speak with me on the phone, PM me and I'll send you my phone # wink


Good luck!
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


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