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#9824 - 09/14/03 09:53 AM Long story
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just posted this once, and it disappeared. I can't believe it.

I'll try again. I'm responsible for the deaths of Gobo, Desi, and Wimbley and here's why.

Cage Day for us is the 3rd weekend of every month. Since our daughter moved out in June, we decided to change her room into our cage room the next cage day (July). I changed furniture around in anticipation of Cage Day. I bought some nice semi gloss paint and painted the room. I painted a little dresser for their pouches and bankies.
--------------------------------------------
Two days after I finish painting the glider room, the ceiling fell down (at least a quarter of it). My son and husband spent all of Cage Day tearing down the old ceiling and replacing it with walboard. What a mess!! Even tho we covered the floor with sheets and blankets. I cried and cried...couldn't believe that I had JUST painted, and THEN the ceiling fell down. My husband and son helped to pick up the plaster, then I vacuumed the rug about 4 times. I washed all the walls, while my husband did the cages (and all the [censored] that goes along with THAT!).
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We believe we have made the room glider safe, and we move our cages it. We LOVE it...they seem to like it, we are all happy. Suddenly, on the 28 Gobo dies---then on the 8th Desi dies...then the 12th, Wimbley, my favorite, dies in my hand.

Post mortems reveal nothing but healthy gliders,altho tissue samples have been sent to the lab. vet is baffled, and so are we.

Then, for some reason, one of us thought about that ceiling. We decided to pull all cages out and remove carpet. OMIGOD! The dust and disentigrated carpet pad...the edges where I didn't get up all the plaster...the plaster that was STILL in the carpet! I don't know--the plaster could have had asbestos!! Does anyone know anything about asbestos and gliders?
-----------------------------------------
I'm worried sick about the rest of my gliders, of course. The new ceiling is finished. Today and tomorrow I am re_painting the room. Tomorrow it is being measured for vinyl. The vet agrees that vinyl would be a good floor, and that the fumes are harmless, once the glue and so forth are aired out.

Is there anything else I can do to make this room glider safe. I have disenfected the floor with simple green. The gliders will NOT go back into the room until it is repainted, the floor is vinyl and we believe it's ready.

I know it's my fault that my little gliders are gone. I only hope that someone can learn from my mistake.

I am not going to waller in guilt. I know that I tried to make a very safe environment for my gliders. I screwed up. I didn't know any better, but I do now.

My main concern is my other 12 gliders--they were in the room too. What about asbestos?

I'm calling my vet on Monday, and mentioning it to her because she is as baffled about their deaths as we have been. Maybe the tissues she sent out can be checked for asbestos.

She has given me meds to treat my other gliders for giardia, even tho she's seen no signs of it. Better to be safe than sorry.

What do I do now?


Edited by robin (09/15/03 10:08 AM)

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#9825 - 09/14/03 10:03 AM Re: Long story--Ch 1 [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Are you saying it was the paint fumes??? Or that they ate the paint?

wow... do you know for sure this is why??? I would also wait and see what the vet has to say.

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#9826 - 09/15/03 10:11 AM Re: Long story--Ch 1 [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally posted by Randy:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Glider Greetings, Peggy:

I am very sorry for your loss. Can't imagine how difficult it must be to loose several gliders in such a short period of time.

Personally, I don't think it was anything you did. I bet the necropsy turns up some sort of virus or bacteria. Don't beat yourself up. Let's wait and see what the lab report says.

Plaster does not normally have asbestos in it and even if it did, it would not kill gliders in so short a period of time, if at all.


--------------------
Randy and Friends

Have you hugged your
glider today?
my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s
My new Web site: Flying_Furbuttz

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#9827 - 09/15/03 10:13 AM Re: Long story--Ch 1 [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally posted by Ellen:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Peg was the paint you used oil based or latex? If it was oil text you would have more fumes. What makes you think that asbestos was in the ceiling? Bruce said that asbestosis is a long term problem not one that should have taken their life so quickly.

--------------------
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely


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#9828 - 09/15/03 10:13 AM Re: Long story--Ch 1 [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally posted by Peggy51:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
It wasn't the paint--that was latex, God only knows what was in that old plaster. My dad was a plasterer, but that was 40 years ago. This plaster is MUCH older--my house is 100 years old. The thing that concerns me the most is that we didn't get up all the old plaster, like we THOUGHT we did. We would NEVER have put our gliders in a room that we didn't think was safe. But, after losing 3 gliders we began to think that perhaps a mold or asbestos was in it. Even tho I had vacuumed the carpet at least 4 times, you would NOT believe the amount of plaster that was still in the corners and so forth. We have pulled up the carpet and thoroughly cleaned the floor. We have used simple green. We are going to re paint the room and then have vinyl put on the floor. We won't be putting them back into the room until all fumes are gone and we will keep the windows open as much as we can while the work is being done.

This is my theory: they died because we had not thoroughly prepared the room...I hope we don't lose anyone else. I do have one other theory...fabric softner? I use fabric softner in everything--in the washer and the dryer. However, I've been doing this for years, and haven't lost anyone. I have to let the vet know the entire story, so that their lung tissue can be looked at thoroughly. I want to know why my gliders died! I think we killed them, but I want to know. I don't want to do anything like this again. I can't bear the tragedy, and especially knowing I own the responsibility. I didn't believe they were going into an unsafe environment, tho. I don't feel a lot of guilt, but I really regret not knowing better, and doing a better job.

--------------------
Peggy51
The Queen of Everything
Fins UP



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#9829 - 09/15/03 10:14 AM Re: Long story--Ch 1 [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered



Originally posted by LisaEuro:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Oh Peggy I just ache for you. I hear all the pain and regret in your post and I wish I could do something.

You are such a wonderful person to care about all gliders the way you do. It couldn't have been easy to post what happened.

You are great glider owner. I am so sorry you are going through this.
Lisa

--------------------
Mom of Maggie, Rita, Michael & Evangelene
Loving and Spoiling Harlequinn & Mystery


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#9830 - 09/15/03 10:15 AM Re: Long story--Ch 1 [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally posted by Judie:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Peggy...I really do not feel it was the asbesto. Illness from Asbesto causes resp. problems. And this would have showed up in the neucropies. And as Ellen said...it is a long term affect of breathing it.

My guess is...the gliders became stressed from the move into a new room that had new smells and none that were familiar.

Be sure to move the gliders out for a few days so your room can air well after you repaint it. As to the floor...the glue has an odor also...so move the gliders out for a few again. Might be best to move the gliders only once...and put them back when the room is completly finished.

When I painted my glider room and the flooring was put down...my gliders were housed for almost a week in the garage. During this time out in the garage...I cleaned cages which took me several days. So, by time they were put back into the glider room...their cages at least smelled like them.

You might ask your vet to run a fecal smear and then a cytology profile to do a bacterial count. You just might find it elevated in a few of your gliders. And if it is, they may need an antibiotic to help them recover from it.

Sending prayers of comfort during this difficult time.



--------------------
www.mylittlegremlin.com



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#9831 - 09/15/03 10:16 AM Re: Long story--Ch 1 [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally posted by Charlee:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Dear Peggy, As you know, one can only do what they believe in their heart to be the best for any living thing in their care. I know you do that for your wee ones and am so glad to hear you say you refuse to wallow in guilt. Your babies are together at the Bridge and I hope that can somehow bring you some comfort. I truly wish there was more I could do or say to make this easier for you to bear but alas, I don't know what that would be. I hope your heart mends quickly.

--------------------
Charlee, Bugsy, Rachel, Albert the Pig, Sambo & Dylan, the 4 legged dog/human creatures


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#9832 - 09/15/03 10:20 AM Re: Long story--Ch 1 [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Peggy, I wish I had some wonderful words of comfort and wisdom, but there's really nothing that can be said at a time like this. We are thinking of you and praying that you and your family can peace in the knowledge that your little ones are waiting for you at The Rainbow Bridge. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" />


On a side note, I combined all of your threads so that your whole story, as well as all responses are together. I would hate to lose part of this important story.

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#9833 - 09/15/03 11:08 AM Re: Long story--Ch 1 [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you for putting the story together. I typed it as one long post and hit some button and lost it. I was almost finished...and crying as I typed. That's why I broke it down into chapters...so that if I screwed up again, I wouldn't lose the entire story. Thanks for your help....BTW, I'm getting better.

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#9834 - 09/30/03 04:54 AM Re: Long story [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I no longer believe it was the ceiling, altho we haven't moved the gliders back into the room yet. We repainted it and as soon as the vinyl is installed, and the fumes gone, they will move in.

They had listeria (see other post) and possible liver damage due to something else--the vet wasn't sure what, but now I am. When we cleaned the cages this past weekend, I discovered that I used aluminum oxide sandpaper in the wheels! I am usually so very careful. I don't know what happened this time. I'm sure it's what effected the livers of my gliders (something the vet couldn't explain--liver damage in all she post mortemed). Our cage day is the 3rd weekend of the month (except this month, because of Isabel). Our first glider died the 28th of August (about a week after cage day). I believe the running on the wheels, then grooming caused them to ingest aluminum! That means the other 10 gliders also ingested aluminum. I think we will get rid of the listeria, but I don't know about the liver damage. I may end up losing all of them.

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#9835 - 09/30/03 10:40 AM Re: Long story [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Peggy, Listeria does damage cells even though it is a bacteria in the blood. The nasty bacteria then inters into the cells of organs and mimics the cells properties and thus natural antibodies of the body do not notice the invader. Because of this behavior of this nasty bacteria.... damage would be seen in the Liver,Kidneys and other organs the Listeria invaded.

I would discontinue use of the sandpaper with the alum oxide due to the question of it being unsafe. Continue the meds the vet has perscribed for the listeria.

When a glider dies (and I cannot imagine how it would be with multi gliders) guilt follows due to lack of answeres as to why. We as caregivers do our best to give good care with hopes of a long happy life for our sugar gliders. When tragedy strikes...the grief to the owner can be overwhelming.

I pray in time the guilt will fade from the wellness of your remaining gliders. May it not be too soon.


Edited by Judie (09/30/03 10:55 AM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#9836 - 09/30/03 12:32 PM Re: Long story [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Peggy, I really care about you, and I really urge you to be careful about jumping to conclusions. I completely agree with Judie -- you don't KNOW this is causing ANYTHING...at least not yet. "Other liver damage" just means that they can't explain it completely. There are some liver changes in every death, and you already know that the listeria was there --- it's a nasty bug, and perfectly capable of causing the number of deaths you've seen.

Your grief is already big enough. Please don't make it worse by taking responsibility for something you don't yet know to be true. If you think it might be causing problems, take out the sandpaper. Post mortem tests can determine if a toxic substance was found in their systems. But I hope you don't jump to conclusions before you have the facts -- it would only compound your grief, and I know it's hard enough already.

Where there has been liver damage, I'm wondering if your vet is comfortable with homeopathic liver remedies? Milkthistle was prescribed for Gladys when she had obvious liver problems, and I'm convinced it helped give her more time. If you want, I know my vet would be willing to talk to yours....

Again, I'm so sorry for your grief. You sure are in my thoughts.
_________________________


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#9837 - 09/30/03 01:01 PM Re: Long story [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Don't beat yourself blaming yourself. Humans are only human and errors can not be prevented. I know how devistated you must be, but knowing you care is enough. You did not do anything intentional and are doing everything possible to get to the cause and rectify it. My heart goes out to you> I can not imagine how you must be feling about now. Take care!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" />

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