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Rear limb paralysis #101035
05/08/06 04:23 PM
05/08/06 04:23 PM

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Hi all,

I am a newer glider owner, two gliders, the youngest with me for 3 weeks, just fully weaned when he came to me - my other is several months old and i have had her most of that time. I am from Australia, it is 7 am here - when i got up i see that the young one's back legs are paralysed - he is otherwise happy and moving around but dragging his back legs. i use the bml diet. Here in Australia gliders are quite a rare pet, i am concerned that it will be hard to find a vet with glider specific knowledge. I think i read some posts recently about something similar, i want to take as much information as possible to the vet.

Is there any immmediate supportive treatment i can provide - both gliders have just gone to bed in a fleece pouch - it is autumn here, cool but not too cold - he is not cold or shivering, had a drink as i was watching, under tail is a little wet so he has been wee-ing - like i say otherwise happy and healthy but for his back legs.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101036
05/08/06 04:31 PM
05/08/06 04:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]There is an entire thread about Hind Leg Paralysis in the Special Needs forum... You can read it HERE . I would recommend printing out the entire thread and bringing it with you to the vet's with your glider ASAP so that you can get the care he needs. Only the vet will be able to determine if the HLP is caused by calcium insufficiency. The vet will also need to check for other infections because HLP is usually secondary to something else going on. Please keep us posted as to what the vet says.


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101037
05/08/06 04:33 PM
05/08/06 04:33 PM

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Thank you Suz, i will get reading.

MO

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101038
05/08/06 05:18 PM
05/08/06 05:18 PM

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Just to let you all know I have spoken to Chilli this morning and recommended a local vet that treats Sugar Gliders. Even though Gliders come from Australia they are more rare here as pets than they are in the states.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: beans1977] #101039
05/08/06 09:35 PM
05/08/06 09:35 PM

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I have just returned from the vet but Pookey is staying the day, the vet thinks that it is likely classic HLP caused by calcium deficiency, Pookey is having an x-ray, calcium level and full blood count. The vet will also give him some supplemental calcium and fluids. They want to keep him until he has fully recovered from the anaesthetic that he will have for the xr. The snr vet in this practice used to work at Healesville a notable Australian Wildlife Park so i feel he is in good hands.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101040
05/08/06 09:40 PM
05/08/06 09:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Thank you very much for the update. It sounds like he is in the best possible hands! I'll keep praying for the little guy...
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101041
05/08/06 09:47 PM
05/08/06 09:47 PM

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I hope everything goes well and he starts improving soon! Sending my prayers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101042
05/08/06 11:36 PM
05/08/06 11:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
Welcome <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> , and thanks for the upbeat update. You do sound like you found a great vet, and your little one is on his way to recovery. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
2010: BJ (M)
Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101043
05/08/06 11:43 PM
05/08/06 11:43 PM

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Ditto to what Katty said. Thank you so much for the update. So often we read these threads and then are left wondering if the glider got the care it needed and how it responds. It sounds like this little one is in wonderful hands (yours and the vet's). Keep up the good work and let us know how it goes!

Oh, and welcome to GC! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101044
05/09/06 03:09 PM
05/09/06 03:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
If feeding the BML diet plan (with correct Supplements of Calcium) the HLP was not brought about by diet issues.

Stress related illnesses can also bring about HLP symptoms. And a newly aquired animal is usually stressed due to new enviroment.

Treatment usually consits of an antibiotic along with Oral Calcium supplementation if related to infection from stress. If dietary only... then Oral Calcium Supplementation only with a correction to dietary needs of the animal.

During treatment... move the pouch, water bottle and dishes to the bottom of the cage so little one does not have to climb.

Occassionaly a glider will become so ill (HLP diet related) that the animal cannot handle his food much less chew it. If this should happen... feed in a flat dish, only BML along with strained baby food veggies/fruit till the animal is able to chew again.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101045
05/10/06 01:02 AM
05/10/06 01:02 AM

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Thank you all for your messages. Pookey is weak but eating and drinking - overnight he took quite a bit of bml off my finger and he drinks from a rabbit-feeder type bottle for water. Seeing his calcium phosphorous ratio and that his Serum Ca was sky high (meaning that his bone calcium is low) and that he is on correctly made up BML the vet agrees this is not dietary, and maybe brought on by stress of new environment. Pookey insists on climbing so i have put the cage on it's back so it is very low and put everything on the "floor". Now his mate is frustrated that she cannot get high off the floor and i am concerned that she will get stressed - i have a small transport cage, i think tonight when they wake i will put her in the regular cage and confine him in the transport box, i am loathe to separate them but it might be safer all round, and then in the morning when they go to sleep i can put them back together. BTW, his white cell count is fine so the vet has opted to leave anti-biotics out for the time being. He is on an oral liquid calcium supplement twice a day. the vet cautioned me against giving him a little extra as it will only cause other probs.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101046
05/10/06 01:28 AM
05/10/06 01:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
I don't know for sure, but I would think if your two are bonded to one another, it would be more stressful to be separated than for the female to adjust to a different cage arrangement.

Have you lined the cage bottom with fleece to make the floor softer, and lowered their sleeping pouch? Maybe put a hammock low near the cage bottom?


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
2010: BJ (M)
Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101047
05/11/06 05:27 AM
05/11/06 05:27 AM

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Yes i was concerned about that but after one night apart and then sleeping together today i think they are doing ok - Chilli - healthy female - goes crazy with the cage turned over, and sick little Pookey just seems to expend too much energy dragging himself around the cage. When it was upgright he was determined to climb to the top and i was not game to leave him alone for fear he fall. even with it turned over he was insisent on climbing. he is now overnighting in a little smooth walled travel "box" nowhere for him to climb and risk falling - he is just the tiniest bit better, continues to eat, drink, poop and pee. I often work from home and have been able to have them on me the past few days, he responds as usual to being petted through the day and the two of them sleep together ok, i have got a system going with their pouches, washing his that gets pee-ed on overnight but always makeing sure that they have a pouch that has both their smells on it for the next day. I know that if he does not make some definite improvement that i cannot let him continue like this for too long, but i don't know how i could ever be responsible for making such a decision.... but how long should i wait expecting to see improvement, is improvement just gradual or do they suddenly improve. he has been medicated two days now. As i say he had just a bit of improvement tonight - no real movement but there is slightly more muscle tone than before and his tail has a teeny curve, no longer beanpole straight (and he had it partly shaved for his blood test so he looks very woe begone).

Again thank you for your advice and concern.

MO

PS I have two of the sweetest gliders - they both bonded to me very quickly - i have only ever been nipped once (and that was because of mealie smell) they are friendly with my wife too but definitely belong to ME. I love to sneak up on them in the morning when they are thinking about going to bed and start talking, they get very excited (not so poor Pookie now) and love to have a last pet and then they dive into bed and will not come out for anything.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101048
05/11/06 06:38 AM
05/11/06 06:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Charlie H Offline
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Charlie H  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Don't be too impatient and expect recovery in only a few days. Replenishing the calcium is a slow process and may take a month or longer to become normal again. Your vet gave you good advice. Be careful about overdosing. The body will only absorb calcium at a slow rate and giving too much will cause liver, kidney, and heart problems.

One thing that really concerns me is if you were feeding the BML diet and it was properly mixed there should not be a calcium deficiency. Maybe this one glider was not eating the BML mix. Either that or there are other problems.

Remember the blood test is not a good way to detect calcium deficiency. The body strives to maintain the proper amount of calcium in the blood. When the calcium in the blood is low the body will leach it from the bones. Therefore the blood test could look normal but the bones would still be deteriorating. After adding calcium to the diet the blood test is a good tool because you can tell if you are overdosing with calcium.

If you are positive that the glider was eating the BML mix with the proper amount of calcium and the proper calcium with the vit d3 added further tests are needed to see what is causing the loss off calcium in the bones.
Good Luck
Charlie H


Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]
Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101049
05/11/06 07:41 AM
05/11/06 07:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]As Charlie has said, recovery from HLP is slow. Pika took about a month to really start feeling (and acting) better. Regular follow-ups with the vet are crucial so that he can run tests to determine if progress is actually being made.
I understand about the woebegone look... Pika had that too - shaved chest, arm & tail <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />. But now she's doing great!


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101050
05/11/06 04:34 PM
05/11/06 04:34 PM

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I think this is the best news i have heard since he got sick - i don't mind if it takes a month so long as he gets better. I have checked and yes the calcium does have D3 added. As he is a bit smaller maybe there is a chance that the older glider was eating most of the BML, i know he is eating it now as i am feeding them separately and his is all gone overnight. This morning, after i thought he had gone to bed, i put him in a pouch in the big cage but within a few moments he was out and climbling the branches like he had 4 good legs - there sure is nothing wrong with his spirit - i let him play a while and it is amazing how he can get around. I think the vet plans to check his blood again tomorrow so hopefully that will give me some more information on his progress.

MO

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101051
05/11/06 04:50 PM
05/11/06 04:50 PM

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I'll be thinking of your little guy and I wish him a speedy recovery. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101052
05/11/06 04:56 PM
05/11/06 04:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 458
Austin, TX
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 458
Austin, TX
It's my understanding that three weeks without calcium probably wouldn't cause HLP so quickly. Do you know what the previous owner/breeder was feeding your little one? If it didn't involve calcium, it might be useful to pass that on to them so that their gliders can be healthy.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101053
05/13/06 06:08 AM
05/13/06 06:08 AM

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I am very excited, this morning Pookey's tail actually had some curl to it and then tonight he moved one of his back legs a few times, could not support himself on it but it was definitely moving.

I bought Pookey at a very reputable pet shop, i have told them about his problems and asked them to let the breeder know - i am waiting to hear what the breeder fed them etc.

He spends the night on a flannel and the day in his pouch but under his tail is often wet with urine, is there a risk that this will cause a UTI and will the skin become inflamed, should i clean it with a damp cloth and then dry him off?

I am so relieved that he is getting better!

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101054
05/13/06 07:41 AM
05/13/06 07:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]I'm so glad to hear that you're already seeing some improvement!
Since he is having difficulty moving, he may not be able to groom himself properly right now. You can definitely help him out by using a warm, damp washcloth to clean him. Make sure you dry him thoroughly afterwards. I don't think there's a risk of causing a UTI by it pooling in his fur, but it could cause his skin to be irritated. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of UTIs will be along to answer this aspect.


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101055
06/01/06 04:43 PM
06/01/06 04:43 PM

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Unfortunately Pookey died :-(((

He was doing very well, i think after nearly three weeks i relaxed as he had 90% of his leg function back. Just the night before he died he got in the exercise wheel and had a lot of fun, i was surprised at how fast he could run - really he could do everything climbing wise, still could not spring around but he was giving it a go - and then i found him in his pouch in the the morning - he had been gone too long for an autopsy so we don't know - the vet wonders if it might be unrelated ie maybe an infection - he seemed so healthy, Chilli is doing fine, needless to say i am watching her very closely, spending lots of time with her now that she is suddenly by herself. I am looking to get her a companion asap, a bit hard to find at short notice though. Pookey is quietly at rest now in our front rose garden.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101056
06/01/06 05:03 PM
06/01/06 05:03 PM

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I'm sorry for your loss! I hope you can find Chilli a companion soon so she wont be too lonely w/o her friend.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101057
06/01/06 05:03 PM
06/01/06 05:03 PM

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Oh my, what a shock. I am so sorry for your loss.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101058
06/01/06 09:02 PM
06/01/06 09:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis
glidrz5  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
I'm very sorry for your loss. I'm going to move this to real stories for you now.


Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be


Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101059
06/15/06 11:21 PM
06/15/06 11:21 PM

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Ahh man what happened????? And sorry for your loss. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101060
06/16/06 05:01 PM
06/16/06 05:01 PM

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WEll i really thought this glider was gonna make it!!!! Well atleast he didnt die because of a bad owner but i thought you were doing a very well job with him. Did you say he was 3 weeks old???

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101061
07/09/06 04:10 AM
07/09/06 04:10 AM

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He was 3 weeks old when i got him, and he was not long fully weaned at that stage.

I have since got another glider - Logan. Have had him for about 3 weeks - he is a handsome young healthy guy with the sweetest character, bonded quickly, good friends with my other glider, no replacement for poor little Pookie but a helpful way to move on.

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101062
07/09/06 06:04 AM
07/09/06 06:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
I'm so sorry Pookie didn't get to stay here. He's waiting for you though. HUGS


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101063
07/11/06 03:09 PM
07/11/06 03:09 PM

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Sorry I cant help you just wanted to say Good Luck with your glider

Re: Rear limb paralysis [Re: ] #101064
07/11/06 03:30 PM
07/11/06 03:30 PM

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at three weeks old he shouldnot have been away from mom and dad yet.....,aybe i missed read what you mean though...



Good luch with your new glider!! Hopefully Chilli will accept him soon so she won't be as lonley <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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