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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: HagridsHut]
#1038632
12/09/10 11:32 PM
12/09/10 11:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645 Ohio
Guerita135
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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Males can be kept together. Usually, the only time that intact males will get along without any hitches is if they're related(father/son or brothers). Also, intact males will oftentimes get along fine together as long as they're introed when at least 1 of them is not yet sexually mature(ex: an adult male with a male joey). I've successfully housed twin brothers(they're adults now), father and son, and 2 unrelated males(if I remember correctly, they were 5 and 3 months old at the time of intros). All have done fine together. However, in each instance, they went through a pecking order phase where there was slight food-aggression. In each case, however, they worked out who the "top dog" was and never had any issues after that. I think, perhaps, that people who try males together probably get to that stage where they're both mature and have to work out the pecking order...and then people split them up, thinking they're no longer working out together, when, in fact, things would have worked out fine if they'd just given them a couple weeks to settle who was going to be the head male. That being said, I'd conclude saying that the con is that they DO usually go through a short fussy phase(anywhere from a couple days to a couple weeks). However, the pro would be that once they've settled in you've got a strongly bonded pair of males and you don't have to worry about unwanted joeys or scary neuters. Personally, I prefer male gliders because I think that they tend to be more cuddly(not always, but the majority of the time, in my limited experience), but I hate the scare and stress of neuters and I especially hate that my gliders hate me afterward if I have to put them in e-collars. So, I feel that if 2 males can be intro-ed together then it's TOTALLY worth it!
~Nicole~ Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy!
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: HagridsHut]
#1038635
12/09/10 11:34 PM
12/09/10 11:34 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,099 Vulcan, MO
Meg_n_Von
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,099
Vulcan, MO
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I actually have two intact males together as we speak. They've been together since August and I haven't had any problems with them, they get along really well. They're about 3 months apart in age. This doesn't mean that ALL intact males will get along, but all of the ones I've ever had together do great.
Megan & LaVaughn Sugar Exotics Kira Sadie - Neal Pip - Violet Logan - Charli - Tyler - Seamus Chloe - Cas Boone RIP David Your life was short lived, but your memory will last forever.
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: Meg_n_Von]
#1038639
12/09/10 11:49 PM
12/09/10 11:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 657 Virginia
HagridsHut
OP
Glider Guardian
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OP
Glider Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 657
Virginia
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I have personally only ever housed intact males who were introduced as joeys, but have had remarkable success with each of these pairings. I am anxious for Connie ( aka suggiemom_1980 ) to respond. She has a great deal of experience, and was actually the person who originally posted her concerns on the subject. Here's the topic on which she was commenting: http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...hic#Post1038627 . -Alicia
Andromeda, Malfoy, & Peeves; Arthur & Lily Severus Snape, Dolores Umbridge, Horace Slughorn, & Molly Weasley ... Glide free, my little angels! We will love and miss you FOREVER!
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: ssdreamsicles]
#1038669
12/10/10 01:03 AM
12/10/10 01:03 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 657 Virginia
HagridsHut
OP
Glider Guardian
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OP
Glider Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 657
Virginia
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I do not think there needs to be more then one intact male in the same cage as a female. Why risk this? You know when a female comes into heat there is going to be trouble. Hi, Melissa! I whole-heartedly agree! Perhaps that's what Connie was referring to, as well. I think that we all concur that multiple intact males being housed with any number of females is just asking for trouble! I just wanted to make certain that I wasn't missing something. I routinely pair young male joeys together for pet-only homes and, because we're fairly new to breeding, I wanted to be sure this practice wasn't frowned upon! I appreciate your input! Thanks, everyone!! -Alicia
Andromeda, Malfoy, & Peeves; Arthur & Lily Severus Snape, Dolores Umbridge, Horace Slughorn, & Molly Weasley ... Glide free, my little angels! We will love and miss you FOREVER!
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: HagridsHut]
#1038693
12/10/10 04:11 AM
12/10/10 04:11 AM
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NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
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NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
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I agree, Connie has a lot of experience and hopefully she will post on here regarding this. I personally don't have any intact males in the same cage. I don't want to take that risk of them possibly fighting and severely injuring each other (or worse). I do know a few that have kept intact males together with no problems. I think it's a personal choice. If I were to do it (which I don't plan on it) I would keep two brothers together that already know each other.
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: HagridsHut]
#1038696
12/10/10 04:46 AM
12/10/10 04:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 956 Homestead, FL
Adri
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 956
Homestead, FL
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I have had both related and non related male pairs (intact) that have worked wonderfully. As a breeder I have many females in my glider room and this has never caused an issue with my male pairs. As with any pairing issues can arise but overall I feel you can have successful pairings of intact males.
Adri Mother of 2 Adrian, Sofie Slave to many glidin' gliders www.sugarsensation.comWithin the heart of every stray lies the singular desire to be loved.
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: HagridsHut]
#1038745
12/10/10 12:21 PM
12/10/10 12:21 PM
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DeniseDren
Unregistered
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DeniseDren
Unregistered
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I have a pair of intact males that are unrelated but have been together since they were 9 weeks out of pouch. They are now close to 2 years old. They are in the same room with females also.
Most animals establish a pecking order between them to determine dominance. You see it in our pets, livestock, and wild animals...From dogs to chickens to horses to deer. It is part of life. Granted the challenge to determine dominance can end terribly sometimes.
Introducing on neutral ground helps...not allowing one to have the benefit of home turf over the other...and daytime introductions where they are sleepy has worked well for me.
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: HagridsHut]
#1038764
12/10/10 01:33 PM
12/10/10 01:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748 Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
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I've had related males and unrelated males living together, who got along just fine, UNTIL they matured. Dads see their sons as competition. Brothers begin to have dominance issues. Unrelated males fight when a female comes in heat, even if she's in another room.
My daughter hand raised rejected brothers, from 3 weeks OOP. They got along just great until they matured. Then the dominant one became extremely aggressive, picking fights for no reason & hogging the food. After a couple months of trying to prevent his aggression, he was neutered. As soon as he was neutered, they got along great again, even tho only the dominant one was neutered.
I know there are intact males who do get along but I haven't had any in my house. I've even had neutered, related males (brothers and dad/son), fight when females came into heat! Because of this, I personally, won't have two intact males together. You can't control instinct.
Connie 812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues SmallWorldSuggies"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward" "Glide free Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: HagridsHut]
#1038790
12/10/10 02:19 PM
12/10/10 02:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,569 IL (St. Louis area)
StitchsMom
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,569
IL (St. Louis area)
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I tried helping a lady several years ago with her twin boys. They were the only gliders in the house and had been together since birth. Both boys were intact. They got along perfectly for three full years. They made it through sexual maturity without fussing one bit. Then, for seemingly no reason at all after years of peace, they turned on each other.
The owner said that they were trying to kill each other and she didn't know why. To be quite frank, I have no idea what suddenly triggered their aggression. Their cage was more than adequate. Their owner spent plenty of time with them, had them on a good diet, and had taken them to the vet to check for illness. She hadn't changed their environment or anything. As far as I can tell, these two brothers simply let their natural instinct to keep other intact males out of their territory get to them. It was my best educated guess.
Here is the happy ending! She separated the boys per my suggestion. After quite a few weeks of pushing, she finally agreed to neuter the boys because she hated seeing them apart. The boys remained separate for about a month after their neuter. They were reintroduced and went right back together with no issues.
I don't know if these two boys will NEVER fight again, but I think that having them fixed made a huge difference. I haven't heard from the owner, so I can only assume the boys are doing well.
I'm in no way saying that it isn't possible to keep intact males together. Each glider is unique after all. I simply believe that it's a bit silly to take the risk. Why not just have the males fixed and keep them together while greatly reducing the risk of injury to either glider?
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: StitchsMom]
#1038961
12/10/10 05:42 PM
12/10/10 05:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 657 Virginia
HagridsHut
OP
Glider Guardian
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OP
Glider Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 657
Virginia
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Why not just have the males fixed and keep them together while greatly reducing the risk of injury to either glider? Unfortunately, the answer to this is quite simply ... funding. Some folks are fortunate enough to have a local glider-knowledgeable vet who doesn't charge an arm and a leg for neuters. I would wager that most, however, do not have that luxury. Neutering a glider can certainly cost as little as $50 - $75, but that isn't the norm. Most experienced vets ( ...at least here in Virginia ) charge upwards of $200 - $400 to perform such surgeries. When purchasing a pair of male joeys, the additional expense of neutering BOTH is simply too daunting for many families.
Andromeda, Malfoy, & Peeves; Arthur & Lily Severus Snape, Dolores Umbridge, Horace Slughorn, & Molly Weasley ... Glide free, my little angels! We will love and miss you FOREVER!
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Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
[Re: HagridsHut]
#1040202
12/13/10 11:16 AM
12/13/10 11:16 AM
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buttercup
Unregistered
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buttercup
Unregistered
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I have 2 intact males together as well. Jay & Silent Bob are brothers, around 4 yrs old now. I am very fortunate that they get along so well. I had one scare moment when I had gotten all new cages, made them new toys, etc...Im not sure what they got into it over, but I'm guessing a totally new environment threw them "off" a bit. I didnt witness what set them off but when I ran in the glider room after hearing the crabbing, it looked to me like a stand off..they were apart but clearly MAD at each other. I do keep 2 pouches in their cage...they seem to fuss with each other when they are in the pouch. It reminds me of siblings fighting... as in "MOM he's touching me!! MOOOOOM he's in MY spot!!!!" So, with 2 pouches, I at least can give one a different sleep option if brother keeps "picking" lol Pouch fussing aside, they do get along very well, they share food bowls, treats, no agressiveness over that, in tent time they pretty much ignore me after about 5 minutes lol and follow each other around. I agree with what was said above about the presence of females...hormones kick in and all that love, patience and cuddling goes right out the window!
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