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Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! #1115561
05/18/11 03:14 AM
05/18/11 03:14 AM

S
sadierose
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sadierose
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I'm not sure if everyone is aware of this, but I think it's important to stress that over supplementing is really, really not good for an animals long term health! It's a real stress on those little kidneys, and for quite alot of people that might not even pop into their head. I know I didnt find out about it for a while, even after I had gotten my first sugar glider back in '09.
After more research I decided I'm going to stick to the time tested Kazko's diet
http://www.sugarglider.com/gliderpedia/index.asp?KazkosDiet
variety is key!
anyone have any thoughts?

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1115564
05/18/11 03:23 AM
05/18/11 03:23 AM

L
lovely1inred
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lovely1inred
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Actually, Kazko's diet did not work for my crew. I feed BML now.

You are right, oversupplementation is just as bad as not enough of something. As of right now, we don't have any recommended daily allowances for what a sugar glider should eat, so, we do the best we can.

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1115568
05/18/11 03:31 AM
05/18/11 03:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
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eshaw Offline
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eshaw  Offline
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Iowa
I have to agree with this. It's just like too much of anything, like vitamins for example, isn't good for ones self. I assume the same applies to all mammals.

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1115645
05/18/11 08:44 AM
05/18/11 08:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,294
NY
WintersSong Offline
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I agree that over supplementing can be a BIG problem.

That said,
personally, Kazko's diet seems a bit too random for me.
I'm all for variety, but I just get the impression that it's a "feed whatever's easy/available" sort of diet -- and for me, that's not something I feel comfortable with.

But to each their own.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1115928
05/18/11 07:49 PM
05/18/11 07:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
PocketPrincess Offline
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my big red flag is SOY. Yes, it is a protein. HOWEVER, soy protein is a different molecular structure than meat protein and does not break down ad easily, causing major kidney damage over time.

Yes, over supplementing is a problem and should be constantly monitored.


Mommy to:
One Skin Kid: Emily Kathryn born 07-23-07
A German Shepherd and Pink Poodle: Wrangler and Flirt
1 Rat: Lizzy Borden
16 Suggies: Bella, Edward, Jasper, Emmett, Rosalie, Alice, and Renesme, Liberty, Justice, America, and Glenn, Hope, Tony, Abby, Ziva, and Jethro

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: PocketPrincess] #1115929
05/18/11 07:53 PM
05/18/11 07:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,280
Ohio
LiveInTheMoment Offline
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Ohio
Originally Posted By: PocketPrincess
my big red flag is SOY. Yes, it is a protein. HOWEVER, soy protein is a different molecular structure than meat protein and does not break down ad easily, causing major kidney damage over time.

Yes, over supplementing is a problem and should be constantly monitored.


If that is true then why would people feed HPW? Wombaroo powder is a soy protein isn't it?


Erika (AKA ProudParent) & my kids:

Suggie :grey: Rocky :bb: Killara :plat: Willoughby :grey:

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: LiveInTheMoment] #1115934
05/18/11 08:03 PM
05/18/11 08:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
PocketPrincess Offline
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Austin, Tx
I don't know. I wouldn't feed it if it contains soy. There wad a recent study showing soy protein as the most likely cause of renal failure in canines and the leading contributor of crystals in felines. As soon as I get home, I will look it up.


Mommy to:
One Skin Kid: Emily Kathryn born 07-23-07
A German Shepherd and Pink Poodle: Wrangler and Flirt
1 Rat: Lizzy Borden
16 Suggies: Bella, Edward, Jasper, Emmett, Rosalie, Alice, and Renesme, Liberty, Justice, America, and Glenn, Hope, Tony, Abby, Ziva, and Jethro

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1115972
05/18/11 08:58 PM
05/18/11 08:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
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Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
I'm more concerned about the fish (contains mercury) and the pork (fatty).


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: suggiemom1980] #1115987
05/18/11 09:14 PM
05/18/11 09:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
PocketPrincess Offline
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PocketPrincess  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
Very true about the fish and pork. I order quail eggs, brushtail possum, anoles, and pinkie mice. I am going to try day old chicks next week.


Mommy to:
One Skin Kid: Emily Kathryn born 07-23-07
A German Shepherd and Pink Poodle: Wrangler and Flirt
1 Rat: Lizzy Borden
16 Suggies: Bella, Edward, Jasper, Emmett, Rosalie, Alice, and Renesme, Liberty, Justice, America, and Glenn, Hope, Tony, Abby, Ziva, and Jethro

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116061
05/19/11 12:02 AM
05/19/11 12:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
angelic4296 Offline
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angelic4296  Offline
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Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
I have to agree with Sara on this one. Everyone has to make their own choices for their own gliders, but for me personally, Kazko's diet seems a bit....random, yes, I like that word. Kinda like stick to these groups but other than that, feed whatever in the world you want. No mention of ratios, only that gliders need a source of calcium and that calcium source doesn't have to be offered daily. So for example, what if an owner, following that diet, fed veggies ALL high in phosphorous because they didn't look at specific and overall ratios? That scares me a bit....but like Sara said, to each their own....

The other thing that scares me a little is that he says that you should feed them the stuff you'd stick in your children's mouths:

"Some of the other "official" diets are proving to get gliders fat quick and to kill them at early ages from liver failure, so do your research and feed stuff that you would stick in your own children's mouths."

Source: http://www.sugarglider.com/gliderpedia/index.asp?KazkosDiet

Now, for longtime or veteran owners, we know that does not include nightly pizza or cheeseburgers lol. But what about those very very new glider owners who see that phrase and say..."oh, well in that case, my kids just had (insert random human food here), I'll give them some of that"....it would NOT be out of the realm of possibilities for that to happen at all.....

The LAST thing that concerns me is he says you can supplement if you choose to, but gives no indication of which supplements to use or how much of a given supplement to add....should 1/8 TSP be added or 1 TBSP? I would have NO idea....

Like I said, to each their own, but a little too random for me (well Sara said that lol).....


Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116068
05/19/11 12:26 AM
05/19/11 12:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Tofu (soy) like Kazko is suggesting is soy bean curd.
http://vegetarian.about.com/od/glossary/g/Tofu.htm
Quote:
Tofu is made from soybeans, water and a coagulant, or curdling agent.


What is in Wambaroo is soy bean isolate.

http://www.soyfoods.org/soy-information/soy-fact-sheets/soy-protein-isolate-fact-sheet
Quote:
Soy protein isolate is a dry powder food ingredient that has been separated or isolated from the other components of the soybean, making it 90 to 95 percent protein and nearly carbohydrate and fat-free.


The two are very different things.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116072
05/19/11 12:44 AM
05/19/11 12:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
PocketPrincess Offline
Glider Lover
PocketPrincess  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
Thank you for the info! Makes me feel a lot better about HPW.


Mommy to:
One Skin Kid: Emily Kathryn born 07-23-07
A German Shepherd and Pink Poodle: Wrangler and Flirt
1 Rat: Lizzy Borden
16 Suggies: Bella, Edward, Jasper, Emmett, Rosalie, Alice, and Renesme, Liberty, Justice, America, and Glenn, Hope, Tony, Abby, Ziva, and Jethro

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116114
05/19/11 07:20 AM
05/19/11 07:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
MissSarah Offline
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MissSarah  Offline
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Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
Day old chicks? Like, live baby chickens?


And to keep this on topic: Yes, I do agree that over-supplementing is a bad thing. Thats why I like diets like HPW. I know just how much to give and everything their getting with their nightly food without having to guess.


Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: MissSarah] #1116122
05/19/11 07:29 AM
05/19/11 07:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
PocketPrincess Offline
Glider Lover
PocketPrincess  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
Exactly like baby chickens. It is natural for them to eat baby birds in the wild. I am going on year 4 of a diet study with Oklahoma State University that is whole prey/raw based. If you are interested, I will make another thread so this one stays on track. Do not want to release it as proven until we do a full ten year study.


Mommy to:
One Skin Kid: Emily Kathryn born 07-23-07
A German Shepherd and Pink Poodle: Wrangler and Flirt
1 Rat: Lizzy Borden
16 Suggies: Bella, Edward, Jasper, Emmett, Rosalie, Alice, and Renesme, Liberty, Justice, America, and Glenn, Hope, Tony, Abby, Ziva, and Jethro

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116240
05/19/11 01:11 PM
05/19/11 01:11 PM

E
ErichB
Unregistered
ErichB
Unregistered
E



PocketPrincess,
Could you PM me about the study? I'f like to learn more.

~Erich

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: PocketPrincess] #1116263
05/19/11 02:35 PM
05/19/11 02:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Marz Offline
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Marz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: PocketPrincess
Very true about the fish and pork. I order quail eggs, brushtail possum, anoles, and pinkie mice. I am going to try day old chicks next week.


brushtail possum?

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116300
05/19/11 04:08 PM
05/19/11 04:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Watch for parasites in the chicks. Know your supplier. As for me I could't do it frown


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116386
05/19/11 08:11 PM
05/19/11 08:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
PocketPrincess Offline
Glider Lover
PocketPrincess  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 628
Austin, Tx
I get canned 100% brushtail possum. They sell it for dog food here.

Day old chicks is one of the harder things for me to try. I will make sure they are coming from a clean farm.


Mommy to:
One Skin Kid: Emily Kathryn born 07-23-07
A German Shepherd and Pink Poodle: Wrangler and Flirt
1 Rat: Lizzy Borden
16 Suggies: Bella, Edward, Jasper, Emmett, Rosalie, Alice, and Renesme, Liberty, Justice, America, and Glenn, Hope, Tony, Abby, Ziva, and Jethro

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116586
05/19/11 11:43 PM
05/19/11 11:43 PM

S
sadierose
Unregistered
sadierose
Unregistered
S



Day old chicks! Oh my! Well, I guess it's not that much different than feeding your suggie a pinkie...which I was too chicken to watch tounge

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116600
05/20/11 12:04 AM
05/20/11 12:04 AM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



I feed pinkies but they're already dead.
On topic though, yes, it's very dangerous to over supplement. This is why following diet instructions to a TEE is so important!

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116724
05/20/11 09:29 AM
05/20/11 09:29 AM

D
drum_chick
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drum_chick
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted By: Megs
I feed pinkies but they're already dead.
On topic though, yes, it's very dangerous to over supplement. This is why following diet instructions to a TEE is so important!


What if a person follows the diet instructions to a tee and their sugar gliders are picky eater or just don't eat all their food?

Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116730
05/20/11 09:46 AM
05/20/11 09:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Gizmogirl  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
G

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
Originally Posted By: drum_chick
Originally Posted By: Megs
I feed pinkies but they're already dead.
On topic though, yes, it's very dangerous to over supplement. This is why following diet instructions to a TEE is so important!


What if a person follows the diet instructions to a tee and their sugar gliders are picky eater or just don't eat all their food?


There are several things you can try first. One is to blend everything to the T and feed this way, or try chunky pieces of fruits and veggies, pour the staple over the fruits and veggies, do different food presentations to make it interesting, reduce treats or feed treats as a morning snack etc. smile


Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013
Re: Over Supplementing - Let it be heard! [Re: ] #1116775
05/20/11 11:09 AM
05/20/11 11:09 AM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Liezl is right.

My gliders won't eat veggies UNLESS it's cucumber, celery, or zucchini. So what do I do?
I started with chopping any other veggies into really fine pieces first. Didn't work. Then I a pureed it into a salsa like consistency. Didn't work. Ok. FINE THEN! tant I WILL have it my way. Sooo... I pureed it to babyfood consistency and guess what, I'm following the diet plan AND they're still eating their veggies.

This is just one example.

IF you've exhausted all possible options, THEN it's time to start considering a different diet, IMHO. But I will never agree with/support oversupplementing for any reason.
IF you want to change something in a diet, contact the diet's creator. Talk to them about your concerns and the issue you're having. See what they suggest, if you've tried it, and what the solution may be that you and others haven't thought of.


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