Question for you guys:

My mother built a cage for her glider using the hardware cloth from home depot. She thinks it is pvc-coated.

Do you think this material is also a part of all this?

The plastic hardware cloth is not involved in this.

Thank you, Trigger. I'll pass it along.

Does there seem to be any correlation between the width of the wire, and the illness?

I was told by Martin's that my wire didn't come from the same manufacturer as the ones they *think* are the problem, but there's no way of knowing 100% if it's safe.

The easiest way to make the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets cages I saw the photo of, would be to use 18" wire rolls. My cages were made completely from 24" wire.

I'm wondering if different widths of wire could have come from different suppliers?

Please Do NOT use ANY of the PVC Vinyl coated cage material at this time PERIOD!!!

It really does not matter what size gauge or what size roll...these cage manufacturing companies have a line they all go through. They all get treated with the same sprays no matter what their gauges, no matter what the roll size. It is best to not use any of it at this time.

Want to be safe? buy epoxy or powder coated cages...

there is a chemical in all pliable plastic. not sure of the name other than it starts with a t. there was somthing on tv about it couple weeks ago and we are exposed to it daily any plastic that is soft and bendable has it and when humans are tested for it the levels are high. could that be it and i would think a blood test would confirm it. the chemical is what makes the plastic bendable. now they know it is harmful in high doses. and about everything is made with it. going to try to find what it is called.

here is a letter i recieved from Pocket Pets in regard to this recall.


Since everybody who works here has these little guys as our own personal pets, we DEFINITELY understand and appreciate your concern about the cage you got from us. That being said, here's the "short version"... :-)




After spending literally tens of thousands of dollars working with the top sugar bear veterinarians for the past few weeks, we believe that we have identified the potential problem. We have conducted a thorough investigation of our supply chains – going back as far as we could through suppliers OF suppliers, etc. - and to make a very long story short, after a lot of digging we think we’ve discovered that the problem most likely originated from the SUPPLIER of one of our cage manufacturers.





As you know from reading all our special reports, we have always made a BIG deal out of having the highest quality cages – and both our manufacturer’s are well aware of that. We’ve used the same two manufacturers for many years now – and never had a single problem – not once. However, after doing a LOT of digging it “looks like” (and I say that because we’ll probably never be able to prove it) that a small company who supplies some of the cage components TO THE SUPPLIER of one of our cage manufacturers, (and as it turns out also supplies many other cage manufacturers nationwide), might have switched one of their sources without telling anyone up the line.



Now, I know this gets a little complicated, but the bottom line is that it looks like one of our cage manufacturer’s supplier’s – SUPPLIER - (or a company 4 generations removed from us) might have switched some things without telling anyone .




I am sorry but we do not receive our cages from Martins so while the cages may look the same they are two different cages.





That being said, the GOOD news is:




1) We have been able to identify the specific groups of cages that MIGHT be effected,

2) It was limited to a very specific geographic area where the purchase was made AFTER January 1st, 2011,

3) It only affects our 18"x18"x24" standard starter cage - NOT our travel cages or any of the larger Single, Double, or Outback cages.




Fortunately, because of our meticulous record-keeping, we have already been able to track down each and every potentially-effected customer - notify them - and new cages are already on their way out the door!





Therefore, if you did not already receive an alert notification via email, you do not have one of these cages and are not affected by the recall. :-)





That being said, even though this issue is affecting a LOT of other cage manufacturers and breeders across the country, we are the ONLY one we know of who decided to actually step up and DO something about it. The truth is, we could have just sat by like everybody else and done nothing - and who knows, in the end this might still all turn out to be "overkill" - but when we all sat down as a company and looked at everything - we just kept asking ourselves: "WHAT WOULD WE WANT DONE IF WE WERE OUR CUSTOMER?"... After that, the answer, (painful as it might be) was pretty easy. :-)





As you can imagine, this is costing our company a HUGE amount of money - but again, we tried to make this decision as "parents" - not a business. We sincerely apologize if the announcement alarmed you in any way, but you can KNOW that we would have contacted you first if we even suspected it might affect you. Not many businesses act like that nowadays - but it's the way we do things around here, and I'm proud to be a part of a company that CARES so much!.


That being said, I'm sure you can appreciate how swamped we all are around here right now, so I hope this has helped answer your questions. Thanks so much for contacting us.


Sincerely,

Sammi in Customer Care

Welcome to letters from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. Scatterbrained, off topic, and irrelevant in many places.




If that's the case should we stop giving our fuzzies milk rings? Baby links? There are a list of things that many of us give our gliders that are pliable plastic.


Kimbo, I appreciate that you've shared that letter. I appreciate that they're recalling A cage, although I do find it hard to believe (but I COULD be wrong; wouldn't be the first time )that it's only one cage of theirs. I am disgusted that they claim they are the only company doing something about it. Anybody who has been keeping up on this knows this simply is not true.

As should Martin's cages.

Pocket Pets and Martin's cages can then go back to their supplier and get reimbursed from them. Pocket Pets and Martin's are in the middle of this mess. It should all be laid at the feet of the company that manufactured the coated wire that has caused gliders to get sick and die from being in those cages.

Remember, Feather, it's not just them.
People purchased the stuff to make their OWN cages, and have been affected. So I suppose 'go after' (not the best choice of words, I know) Home Depot and Lowe's and wherever else? :shrug:

I wonder if there is a way to figure out who the common supplier is that's 'shared' between wherever people have purchased the material, Martin's, and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and whatever other companies that MAY also be involved and we just don't know it (yet).

Megs, when that letter went out Pocket Pets were the only ones that was recalling and replacing cages, as martin was not, they soon then followed suit, and it is still unknown as to whether martins is replacing the cages.


as for the size of wire on the wheels being affected.. the 1/4 inch square pvc/vinyl coated wire has not reported any affects.. the wire we use for the cruiser is manufactured by a completely different manufacture

Haha! I CAN contribute something useful after all

This is a quote from the email I got from Martin's. This is really the meat of it, but if anyone would like to see the rest, PM me.

"I have reports pulled for all sugar glider cages sold going back since the end of last year. If it’s found that the cage wire is the problem we will immediately place a recall on the cages. We’ll either have a safe replacement or we will be issuing refunds."

Oh ok.. I was under the impression that this letter was just recently, within the last 2-3 days, sent out.

Yes, there are ways to find out who the common supplier was or is. It will take the manufacturer of the cages and the wholesalers cooperation in getting to the bottom of this problem.

My statement was made that if people are going to hold Pocket Pets responsible for their vet bills and the replacement of pets that have perished from this then Martin's Cages should also be held responsible if the cage was purchased from them.

If I had gliders in one of these cages or in my case I got wire from Klubertanz and made my own, and it got sick and we could relate it to the wire the cage was made out of you better believe I would be driving the 15 miles east and beating on the door at Klubertanz for answers.

Oh heck yeah. I would be as well! You could bet your bottom dollar!

I found out today while speaking with a manager at Klubertanz that there are only 2 manufacturers of this wire in the US, Shepperd and Riverdale. I was also told that there is wire being shipped in from overseas (Klubertanz does not sell this) from China and Italy.

Now, can someone please clarify if the affected wire is reportedly from Shepperd or Riverdale?

It would seem that at this point, basing my opinion on (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets stating that they have concluded its a specific size cage from a specific supplier that was affected, that this information can be made public as well? There is a lot of supposition being made without the specific manufacturer being named. (At least not that I have read.)

Shelly~ in another thread Dancing/Teresa threw out there a name of a company~ but it wasn't for certain. Peggy got on someone for naming that same company on LGG and asked where they heard that company because everyone has been careful not to name the company..

I personally agree with what she/Teresa said.. but only one of the companies names their distributors on their site and the 2 distributors I found that were noteworthy were klubertanz and martins (but I have no clue how to trace PP). Its possible .. just possible they all have the same suppliers in common~ as in more than one supplier the way PP had a backup~ therefore the conclusion being wrong..

I'm wondering if there is a legal issue (as I stated in response to Teresa) as to why the company hasn't been named to the public.

I know you have good reason to ask~ so maybe directly asking Peggy would get you the answer?

i keep wishing i had checked here more the past few weeks then i would have known about the cages.....i was so happy to find a good cage at a good price....the wire came from the same place that martins cages gets the wire.....this afternoon my female het leu adrian started have seziures and after five mins she was dead....she died in my husbands hands while i was at work.....freaked i called tyler to ask him if i did something wrong and see if he knew anything....he told me about the cages... i saw a few nibbles on the cage and seeing as how my male is fine im sure it was adrian that nibbled the cage...i did not even get the chance to take her to the vet...on min she was fine the next dead....i have taken my male rocky out of the cage and will never use a cage from that place again.....im so sad

as much as we all would love to divulge the information regarding the manufacturer.. PLEASE understand that this wire could have been hidden from the last year bad wire and hidden till it was released.. what the fear is, the main fear is that when they find out exactly what the problem is, when they go after the manufacturer that there will be no wire found to PROVE it beyond a shadow of a doubt, they will need to find that wire in the facility..

now if it gets out then they again may hide the wire.. which means it will show up again.. in the future.. whose gliders will be affected then, how many more must die while they again walk?

from now on im telling everyone i know to never use this stuff again...this is crazy

I find it hard to believe that the wire manufacturer does not already know that something is up. At this point I just cannot see *them* being in the dark still, this is being talked about, someone always knows someone else. (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is in the press now saying they are replacing cages. I think it is good to not say who it is, but the reason that they may hide things is moot, my guess is they already have hid things if they had something to hide. If you sell a bunch of wire on a large scale to (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets you know it.

I just got my replacement cage from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and I must say that there a huge difference in odor from the old one and the new one. Let me clarify, the old one has been washed several times while cocoa was alive and washed again after she passed. I did not notice it before as I did not have a comparison and thought it was normal. But now that I have the new one, there is a very distinct chemical smell to the old one. I have removed it from my home and have it sitting outside on the patio where I am now. If the wind catches the right way I can still smell it sitting 25 feet away from me.
Now if only I had another animal to put in the new one. Adam and I have spoke on the phone and he is willing to replace cocoa although he does not know when. He asked me to email him in 2-3 weeks to REMIND him that I need one. BULL!! And I would really like to have them pay my vet bills from this, it just is not fair!!

I lost my little girl (who i had purchased from Pocket Pets) just a couple weeks ago and they have offered me a new baby as well as a new cage. Since her death I have done an extensive amount of research and would really prefer to have a pair. I know Pocket Pets is not to blame in this situation but given the negative comments posted by many members throughout glider central I'm hesitant to purchase another Joey from them... Would it be better to just purchase through PP and avoid the process of integrating a completely new Joey or should I look elsewhere?

my other male that was in that cage was shaking last night...kinda like he was shivering....but he ate alot of watermelon and is still alive and doing much better this morning....he looks so sad...he watched his friend die...my husband sad rocky was just looking at her and he did not know what to do...poor rocky...he is looking and calling for her in his new cage....im happy that other people are getting new cages and new animals to love but since i got my cage from another co this will not be happening for me....i spent 140 on the cage and the 500 on the sugar glider that i lost...i did not even get a chance to take her to the vet... i was going to take rocky to the vet last night but then he started eating the heck out of the water melon and looked alot better so i think he just need to flush his system...we should do some kind of class action law suit or something

I would rather take him to the vet just to be on the safe side. Better safe than sorry. Make sure he gets lots of fluids ( water) I'm sorry you lost the little girl.

I need to add to this thread. We lost Taz on March 25th, 3 weeks after putting him and Rocky together in our Martins 'Pampered Sugar Glider Cage-PVC Coated'. We received this cage on Feb 24, 2011. Rocky survived and our vet told us of Glider deaths in Florida that were not explained. All of this happened before any of the information on the cages was made known to us. We placed Rocky in an old bird cage we got when we got him while we gave him prescribed medication. After he became better we returned him to his Martins cage where he stayed until Friday. We received a new glider to replace Taz and I decided to get another cage like the first for him to stay in until we put them together. My intent was to connect both cages as one to give them an even larger home. I went to order the new cage and saw they were listed as 'out of stock'. I inquired as to when they would be back in stock and got an email Friday stating that Gliders had become ill in the cages and they were removed from stock until all testing was complete. Imagine how we felt now knowing that we had left Rocky in such an unhealthy enviroment for months. I was sure Rocky had begun to shake again and thought it was due to chewing on the cage again because of the new Glider. Had we not inquired about another cage we may have sentenced Rocky and his new mate, Oscar, to their death. We feel we should have been notified that we may have a tainted cage.

I am sorry about your baby and I agree the other companies affected by this cage wire issue NEED to step up and contact their customers out of simple decency and they may save some lives along with any retain some of their customers' trust.

Did Martin's have any reason why they had not contacted their customers and warned them of possible health risks?


Unfortunately not all glider owners are on these boards and there is no way for us to warn the people who are not.

I have a feeling we are only seeing a drop in the bucket here compared to the numbers actually affected.

If nobody is willing to name the manufacturer and/or contact the distributors, how are they to ever do anything or issue any recalls? I called my distributor and they said that they had heard this from one other person. So unless they lied to me, they really don't know anything about this situation. One or two people mentioning it isn't enough. I am an extremely small client of theirs, when I speak, they don't really listen. One or two inquiries with half information doesn't hold much weight. However, when a lot of people speak, well, then they have to take notice.

It seems that fear of what "might" happen is preventing the things that in my opinion NEED to happen.

I do fully understand that testing has not been completed to determine for a fact that the cage wire is the cause of the medical conditions and deaths of these gliders. And maybe that is why no one is saying anything, but I would think the distributors/manufactures would like to know that their product has a potential problem. If they aren't notified, they will continue to sell the stock, and we will continue to see gliders gravely effected. Especially those that are not involved with the online glider community ~ it's a much bigger picture than just "us".

Does anyone know what tests are being run? Being in the profession that I am in, I have analytical testing run all the time. The time frame of these results are a bit odd, but that could all depend on the analytes being tested for. Some take quite a while and others are fairly quick. Or, is it that the results are in, but the findings and conclusions have not been determined yet?

I'm sorry to say this but even if they get the "issue resolved" I will not recommend Martin's to anyone again. They should have stepped up and done the notifications. Really, that is just good business. Even if they were not willing to refund or replace the cages, at least let people know to get their gliders out until the final determination (whether they are safe cages or not) comes in.

These are deaths that don't need to happen.

I also think it is just nuts (not my first choice for words) that at this point, it is being kept as hush hush as it still is.

At least with the galvanized wire, possible uti's can be treated and the risk is known.

I just spoke this evening with a woman who lives nearby. Approximately one month ago, she purchased a glider from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. A couple of weeks ago, her glider began having tremors, she wouldn't eat and had become lethargic and dehydrated. Her vet thought it was a calcium deficiency, as we have seen in the past. She knew nothing about the cage issues going on.

I know that Martin's has records of each cage purchased. What about (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets? Can they begin making contact with people within the time frame we're looking at?