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Dominance vs. Aggression #1209099
12/27/11 10:30 AM
12/27/11 10:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107
Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa Offline OP
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I was just wondering the difference between displayed dominance and displayed aggression?

When my two males interact it looks like my one male is trying to establish his dominance which leads to fighting, but I wasn't sure if it was actually aggression. I'd like to know what a glider would do to display both before I say what my males are doing so I can get unbiased answers. Thank you!


-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209104
12/27/11 10:40 AM
12/27/11 10:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
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suggiemom1980  Offline
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Are they neutered? How old are they?

If they've matured and aren't neutered, they could be seriously fighting, which can lead to serious injury and even death.

If they're establishing dominance, you'll be able to distract them or break them apart, by saying no in a loud voice or by dragging a piece of fleece over them.


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209106
12/27/11 10:41 AM
12/27/11 10:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107
Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa Offline OP
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They are both neutered and have been since a young age. They have been housed together previously for 2 weeks with no problem. My one male, the previous dominant glider, had to be seperated for a couple weeks due to a prolapse. He is 1 and a half and the other male is 2 and a half and much larger.

Last edited by BlackDrappa; 12/27/11 10:42 AM.

-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209113
12/27/11 10:56 AM
12/27/11 10:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
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Washington D.C. Metro Area
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Don't forget that there is a big difference between wrestling/establishing dominance and actually balled up fighting. Typically, dominance behavior will be one glider climbing on top of another glider. Gliders that are fighting will get into a little ball, and most often go for butts/feet and tails to inflict injury.

Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: DCMuffin] #1209115
12/27/11 11:00 AM
12/27/11 11:00 AM
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Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
Don't forget that there is a big difference between wrestling/establishing dominance and actually balled up fighting. Typically, dominance behavior will be one glider climbing on top of another glider. Gliders that are fighting will get into a little ball, and most often go for butts/feet and tails to inflict injury.


This is where I am confused though....Because Castiel, the bigger male, will climb on top of my smaller male and put his mouth around his head. He won't bite, but he looks like he is applying pressure. This caused Maverick, the smaller male, to crab and kick at him trying to get him off. They then ball up and tuffs of fur have been pulled out..but now injuries besides that. And it only lasts a few seconds or shorter if I make a loud noise or seperate them.


-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209116
12/27/11 11:03 AM
12/27/11 11:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
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Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
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It does sound to me like Castiel is playing the dominant role here - and if you can separate them, they still aren't actually fighting. When you are doing these intros with them, how are you doing it? Just Castiel and Maverick in the tent together? All of them?

Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209119
12/27/11 11:05 AM
12/27/11 11:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
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Originally Posted By: BlackDrappa
Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
Don't forget that there is a big difference between wrestling/establishing dominance and actually balled up fighting. Typically, dominance behavior will be one glider climbing on top of another glider. Gliders that are fighting will get into a little ball, and most often go for butts/feet and tails to inflict injury.


This is where I am confused though....Because Castiel, the bigger male, will climb on top of my smaller male and put his mouth around his head. He won't bite, but he looks like he is applying pressure. This caused Maverick, the smaller male, to crab and kick at him trying to get him off. They then ball up and tuffs of fur have been pulled out..but now injuries besides that. And it only lasts a few seconds or shorter if I make a loud noise or seperate them.

This is what makes me believe they're establishing dominance. It's really hard to watch but necessary for them to go thru. Just keep a close eye on them and make sure it doesn't escalate. Do check often for any injuries such as bite marks or sores from fur being pulled out.


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209121
12/27/11 11:08 AM
12/27/11 11:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107
Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa Offline OP
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BlackDrappa  Offline OP
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Hamburg, NY
Ok, thank you. I just would hate to let them do it and then one of them be hurt. The most that's happened so far is the fur being pulled out and Maverick has been covered in saliva.

I know I should have gloves incase I have to pull them apart...anything else? Should I leave the girls out of the mix the whole time and bring them in later?


-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: DCMuffin] #1209123
12/27/11 11:10 AM
12/27/11 11:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107
Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa Offline OP
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BlackDrappa  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
It does sound to me like Castiel is playing the dominant role here - and if you can separate them, they still aren't actually fighting. When you are doing these intros with them, how are you doing it? Just Castiel and Maverick in the tent together? All of them?


I've tried just the girls and then bringing Castiel in (bathroom) and I've also tried JUST the boys. They have been able to play in the bathroom away with each other just fine and they were even in the same pouch for a bit before Castiel tried mounting/mouthing Maverick again. Even then if they were on other ends of the pouch they were fine.


-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209124
12/27/11 11:10 AM
12/27/11 11:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
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Agreed. As difficult as it is, it's important that we let gliders be gliders. That doesn't mean you have to just let them do their thing without any supervision or separation - but they DO need to work out issues amongst themselves. Our natural response is to jump in just as soon as something happens. This has an adverse effect on things and will actually sometimes make the gliders more nervous. One of the most important things when you're doing intros between gliders is to remain calm and confident. As easy as it sounds, many people aren't, and it can cause friction in the tent/bathroom. If you go in with a feeling of dread or that "this isn't going to work", then more than likely, it won't. Go in confident and let them feel that from you.

Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209171
12/27/11 01:37 PM
12/27/11 01:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 299
Mo
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hypnotist321 Offline
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Mo
Hey BlackDrappa!!!!
Is one "looking for" this bring , or is it pretty spontaneous when they happen to be a the same place at the same time?


Last edited by hypnotist321; 12/27/11 01:38 PM.

Angela
Spike & Lola (mom and dad/neutered) OOP 2009
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Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: hypnotist321] #1209175
12/27/11 01:42 PM
12/27/11 01:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107
Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa Offline OP
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Hamburg, NY
Originally Posted By: hypnotist321
Hey BlackDrappa!!!!
Is one "looking for" this bring , or is it pretty spontaneous when they happen to be a the same place at the same time?



They leave each other alone until they are right by each other and sometimes not even then. Maverick doesn't do anything until Castiel tries to get on his back and mouths his head. Then they fight...


-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209470
12/28/11 12:38 PM
12/28/11 12:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 299
Mo
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hypnotist321 Offline
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Mo
So Maverick is just telling Castiel to knock it off. Wonder what Castiel's behavior means? Mouth his head even... there's a girl in the cage, so even if he was neutered and feeling spunky... that's not the case is it?


Angela
Spike & Lola (mom and dad/neutered) OOP 2009
Peek-A-Boo (joey #1) OOP 8/20/2011
Fancy & Stash (twins girl & boy/neutered) OOP 11/20/11
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: hypnotist321] #1209479
12/28/11 01:31 PM
12/28/11 01:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107
Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa Offline OP
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Hamburg, NY
Originally Posted By: hypnotist321
So Maverick is just telling Castiel to knock it off. Wonder what Castiel's behavior means? Mouth his head even... there's a girl in the cage, so even if he was neutered and feeling spunky... that's not the case is it?


He is neutered, but from what I understand, that shows that Castiel is trying to dominate Maverick. From what I've been told if they don't like each other I would know for sure. They would fight without me being able to seperate them and not be able to be in the same room as each other or live for almost 3 weeks before Maverick's isolation just fine. I think Maverick being seperated messed up the social rankings and now Castiel has assumed the position of King of the Castle...and he's trying to put Maverick in his new place.

At least that's my opinion.


-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1209617
12/28/11 08:47 PM
12/28/11 08:47 PM
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Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
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:agreed:

Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1210124
12/30/11 11:52 AM
12/30/11 11:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107
Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa Offline OP
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Hamburg, NY
Here are 2 videos, Aimee already saw them. They are just SO confusing! They are fine for awhile, and then the second video happens! Anyone who can tell me what Castiel is doing would be awesome!





-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1210128
12/30/11 12:02 PM
12/30/11 12:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 300
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
pannonia Offline
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It looks to me as he is grooming the other's tail & than the other boy just has enough of that & lets him know. It doesn't seam to be aggression but rather just communication. It happened with my guys as well exactly the same way & now they are just fine. As long as they don't ball up & full on fight I don't think you should be concerned.


Proud Mom to
:leu: Snow :rtmo: Flake :grey: Gustav :plat: Mercury :leu: Diamonelle , Piccolina :grey:
& my precious Miracle and Amoretto

www.torontosugarglider.com
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: pannonia] #1210134
12/30/11 12:06 PM
12/30/11 12:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107
Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: pannonia
As long as they don't ball up & full on fight I don't think you should be concerned.


They somewhat do though frown There isn't any bitting, but Maverick will crab at Castiel, kick at him, and they will roll around in a ball. And then they are fine and will go to sleep together...and then when Castiel goes to groom him again (a little too rough in my opinion) they fight again...


-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel
Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa] #1210144
12/30/11 12:22 PM
12/30/11 12:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 300
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
pannonia Offline
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Do you have multiple sleeping pouches in the cage? That helps them to give time out to each other. Keep an eye on them for injuries & only intervene when absolutely necessary. That's what I did & they worked out their differences. I know how hard it is to watch, but they have their own way to sort out problems. When injury occurs, should separate them & try reintroducing them slowly.


Proud Mom to
:leu: Snow :rtmo: Flake :grey: Gustav :plat: Mercury :leu: Diamonelle , Piccolina :grey:
& my precious Miracle and Amoretto

www.torontosugarglider.com

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