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wodent wheel #1292597
09/27/12 11:33 AM
09/27/12 11:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
alabama
gena Offline OP
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gena  Offline OP
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alabama
Is a wodent wheel dangerous?


Gena
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1292606
09/27/12 12:05 PM
09/27/12 12:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,119
Palmyra, VA
ChrissysGliderz Offline
Glider Guardian
ChrissysGliderz  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,119
Palmyra, VA
I have heard by many that they are dangerous! I had one and I tossed it in the trash not because my gliders got injured but it was a pain to clean and it looked nasty. I have all Fast Track wheels and they are amazing. You can contact GC member Dallie. She has great products and awesome customer service. There are other wheels that are self as well.

The wodent can be dangerous due to the bar in the middle of them. I have heard of gliders getting their tail hung and I have also heard of injuries due to the wheel falling over on the gliders.


Christina

www.SlumberSuggies.com
Email: slumbersuggies@aol.com
Cell:(434)806-9791

:rbridge: Lacy
Re: wodent wheel [Re: ChrissysGliderz] #1292684
09/27/12 03:31 PM
09/27/12 03:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,176
BC, Canada
Kathryn Offline
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Kathryn  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,176
BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: ChrissysGliderz
I have heard by many that they are dangerous! I had one and I tossed it in the trash not because my gliders got injured but it was a pain to clean and it looked nasty. I have all Fast Track wheels and they are amazing. You can contact GC member Dallie. She has great products and awesome customer service. There are other wheels that are self as well.

The wodent can be dangerous due to the bar in the middle of them. I have heard of gliders getting their tail hung and I have also heard of injuries due to the wheel falling over on the gliders.

:agreed: In my opinion having a Wodent Wheel is not worth the risk. I also have a Fast Track, they're the best! smile



:grey:
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1292692
09/27/12 03:45 PM
09/27/12 03:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
YES! Tails get stuck on the spindle. The spindle gets sticky causing that to happen, even a spindle guard gets sticky. Some will say put vegetable oil on it because its noisy, then you have oily tails, :(It is not worth the risk for me.


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1292693
09/27/12 03:46 PM
09/27/12 03:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
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jimbo  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
For at least a year wodent wheels have included an "inner track" that prevents tails from getting caught on a sticky axle:



Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1292694
09/27/12 03:46 PM
09/27/12 03:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
feel it its still sticky


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1292699
09/27/12 03:52 PM
09/27/12 03:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
however your gliders , your choice smile


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1292708
09/27/12 04:02 PM
09/27/12 04:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Yes, Wodent wheels are known to have caused several tail injuries to gliders, from broken tails to degloved tails. And yes, they have come up with an insert to try to improve the safety of the wheel.

However, I personally still do not recommend them. The old style is dangerous. Both the old and new style do not allow the natural movement of a glider. When a glider runs in the wheel, they jump across it. Any wheel with a center bar inhibits that movement. I prefer my wheels to have a completely open center for them to move in what ever fashion they desire.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1292754
09/27/12 06:15 PM
09/27/12 06:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
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jimbo  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
Is it safe to allow *any* glider to jump across or ride around on the outside of the wheel? Or is it just some gliders who learn how to do it in a way that does not injure them?

Guess we will find out about the overall safety of the newer wheels when the general owner population buys as many of them as there are wodent wheels in the glider community (100,000+).

On these newer wheels, make sure your stand is high enough so a glider riding around on the outside of the wheel does not get slammed into the cage floor, toys, or another glider. The more gliders you have in the cage, the higher the risk of this kind of accident.


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1292789
09/27/12 09:15 PM
09/27/12 09:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
So you saying that the Wodent has an additional safety issue? When I used them, gliders would stick their heads out of the holes in the front. Since the stand holds the wheel closer to the ground than the other wheels do (and can't be adjusted at all), this is an unsafe feature that I hadn't thought of before. Gliders could very easily smack their heads on the floor of the cage when the wheel spins - and with the low clearance, it would increase the risk of injury if another glider was walking near or below the wheel.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: jimbo] #1292793
09/27/12 09:30 PM
09/27/12 09:30 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
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nancy1202  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Originally Posted By: jimbo
Is it safe to allow *any* glider to jump across or ride around on the outside of the wheel?

Guess we will find out about the overall safety of the newer wheels when the general owner population buys as many of them as there are wodent wheels in the glider community (100,000+).
Unfortunately, there will never be that many of the "safer" wheels out there due to cost. The Wodent is quite a bit cheaper than the safe wheels. Many glider owners figure it is affordable and better than no wheel at all.

I had a glider who had his tail amputated, twice, because of a Wodent wheel before he came to live with me. I will never recommend this wheel.

I don't believe we "allow" our gliders to leap and run on the outside of the wheel... they just do! How many reports of injuries or death have been attributed to running on the outside of a wheel? How many gliders have lost their tails because of a Wodent?


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293002
09/28/12 05:21 PM
09/28/12 05:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
alabama
gena Offline OP
Joey Member
gena  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
alabama
what are some safe wheeels?


Gena
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293008
09/28/12 06:26 PM
09/28/12 06:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
These are the ones that are most recognized as being glider-safe:

Stealth
Fast Track
Cruiser
Raptor


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293031
09/28/12 08:25 PM
09/28/12 08:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
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jimbo  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
Regarding riding on the outside of the wheel, that can't be done on a wodent. As I said in the post, this is an issue with the newer mesh track wheels where a glider can grip from the outside.

The de-gloving of tails is an old issue. It was rare compared with the number of wheels in service (20? on 100,000 wheels), but to prevent any mishaps no matter what the condition of the wheel, the inner track was introduced. No incidents have been reported using the new axle cover, in service over a year.

Last time this was discussed in detail, there were 2 injuries so far attributed to the new mesh track wheels. Based on a guess of 2000 mesh track wheels out there, that means these new wheels have a higher accident rate than wodent wheel ever did before the new inner track was added.

I know people don't care about "the math" of accident rates, they like to count total incidents and compare. But in the real world, the definition of "safe" is directly related to the number of items in use and time exposed to potential for accident. The mesh wheels have not been around that long, so their record could get better or worse.

I'm not saying wodent wheels are "better", there are a lot of reasons you might want a different wheel. But to say they are "more dangerous" cannot be supported by the facts we have at this time - and especially since the wheel has now been modified so the majority of accidents reported over the past 12 years can no longer occur.

If you need to bash wodent wheels - and I know some people do - how about at least saying "they used to be dangerous" or "if you have an old one they are more dangerous"? Those statements would be closer to the truth.

Now go ahead, bring on the "I still won't recommend the wodent wheel because..." posts if they make you feel better!


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: wodent wheel [Re: jimbo] #1293039
09/28/12 09:05 PM
09/28/12 09:05 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Just as a reminder, here is the OP's question:
Originally Posted By: gena
Is a wodent wheel dangerous?

Originally Posted By: jimbo
Regarding riding on the outside of the wheel, that can't be done on a wodent. As I said in the post, this is an issue with the newer mesh track wheels where a glider can grip from the outside. Why exactly did you bring this up then, considering the OP's question? Possibly to "bash mesh track wheels"?

... so the majority of accidents reported over the past 12 years can no longer occur. Have all of the old style wheels been recalled? Has Transoniq offered to pay vet bills for those gliders injured by their product? Have ALL distributors replaced their inventory with the new "safer" axle cover?

I, unlike you, do not make wheels or have any financial interest in any of the wheels. I can only respond to the OP's question based upon unbiased experience. BTW, comments in this post do not make me feel better at all. They only make me sad.

Gena, I hope you have gotten an answer to your question. To many of us, it is just not worth the risk. No one has even mentioned the wire cotter pin on the front of the Wodent yet. You have gotten suggestions for several "safe" wheels. I don't believe you will disappointed with any of them!


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: wodent wheel [Re: jimbo] #1293046
09/28/12 09:35 PM
09/28/12 09:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
:agreed:


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: GliderNursery] #1293056
09/28/12 10:13 PM
09/28/12 10:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Based on a guess of 2000 mesh track wheels out there


I would like to know where you came up with this number?? I would take a bet that there are MANY more than just 2000 mesh track wheels out there.
The wodent wheel is not the only one sold Globally.

I personally never recommend the wodent wheels.

As for the mesh track wheels, most of mine are side mounted so one doesnt have to worry about a stand at all. thumb


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293070
09/28/12 11:04 PM
09/28/12 11:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
ETA:
Quote:
The de-gloving of tails is an old issue. It was rare compared with the number of wheels in service (20? on 100,000 wheels), but to prevent any mishaps no matter what the condition of the wheel, the inner track was introduced. No incidents have been reported using the new axle cover, in service over a year.


You might want to read this thread Jimbo...

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1293061/Tail_Injury#Post1293061


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293116
09/29/12 07:49 AM
09/29/12 07:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
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J

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Posts: 137
FL
Thanks Peggy, I've read it before and it's a great example of how "themes" get started on discussion groups.

There is nothing in this thread that points to the wodent wheel as the cause. Someone asks if there is hair on the axle and there's no reply. Nobody bothers to ask if there is a proper axle cover. So then, despite this lack of info, folks jump to the conclusion the wheel is at fault because it fits a theme everybody likes to repeat.

The last time we went through an inquiry where someone claimed a tail injury "even though there was an axle cover", it ended up the person was using a piece of PVC pipe to cover the axle, which makes tail pinching more likely.

This is how an idea like "wodent wheels are more dangerous than other wheels" turns into an idea that keeps getting repeated. It's so much easier to just jump to a conclusion than try to verify what actually happened, don't ya think?


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293127
09/29/12 09:30 AM
09/29/12 09:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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North Central Ohio
It gets repeated simply because there are more known injuries with a wodent wheel than any of the others. And please don't give me numbers because you truly don't know how many of the other wheels are in use, making your math simply a guess not fact.

If the points you are making about the mesh wheels were such a high risk, over the past several years these wheels have been in use, we'd have seen more of these types of injuries ~ but we haven't.

Again- this post is about the Wodent Wheel, not the mesh wheels. If you'd like to discuss the potential issues of mesh wheels, please feel free to start your own thread.
Originally Posted By: Rule 3
Please keep posts closely related to the topic. If the topic sparks another thought for discussion, please open a new thread. Post messages in the most appropriate forum. Please refrain from posting the same message in more than one forum. Only one of those messages will remain posted. Do not be offended if moderators move your thread to a forum that fits your topic. In a large forum like ours, this kind of housekeeping is necessary. It is not personal. Please do not use excessive CAPS or bold lettering. It makes your message very hard to read and implies you are shouting.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: GliderNursery] #1293133
09/29/12 10:03 AM
09/29/12 10:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,389
Maryland
T
Terry Offline
Serious Glideritis
Terry  Offline
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T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,389
Maryland
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
It gets repeated simply because there are more known injuries with a wodent wheel than any of the others. And please don't give me numbers because you truly don't know how many of the other wheels are in use, making your math simply a guess not fact.

If the points you are making about the mesh wheels were such a high risk, over the past several years these wheels have been in use, we'd have seen more of these types of injuries ~ but we haven't.

Again- this post is about the Wodent Wheel, not the mesh wheels. If you'd like to discuss the potential issues of mesh wheels, please feel free to start your own thread.
Originally Posted By: Rule 3
Please keep posts closely related to the topic. If the topic sparks another thought for discussion, please open a new thread. Post messages in the most appropriate forum. Please refrain from posting the same message in more than one forum. Only one of those messages will remain posted. Do not be offended if moderators move your thread to a forum that fits your topic. In a large forum like ours, this kind of housekeeping is necessary. It is not personal. Please do not use excessive CAPS or bold lettering. It makes your message very hard to read and implies you are shouting.


Firstly, Very well said, I'm so glad you posted this.

Secondly, to OP, the actual answer to your question (Are Wodent wheels dangerous?) would be basically yes & no. Although in it's self is not a dangerous wheel for many small pets, it is not designed properly for sugar gliders which have long fluffy tails. So for sugar gliders it poses risks to their long fluffy tails, and that would be why many people feel they are dangerous. Now, these wheel pose no danger to other small pets, as far as I know of and would be or should be perfectly safe for other small critters that fit appropriately in the sizes available, especially those that cannot or should not use mesh tracks.

Last edited by Terry; 09/29/12 10:03 AM.

Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
1 Sugie, (Ollie)
R.I.P. Lulu (2/28/12-10/13/17)
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Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293135
09/29/12 10:09 AM
09/29/12 10:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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North Central Ohio
The other issue with Wodent wheels that was briefly brought up is the cotter pin. It's located on the front of the wheel, and it is what holds the wheel together. There are known injuries where a gliders have gotten their patagiums caught on the metal pin and ripped it completely open.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293352
09/30/12 10:24 AM
09/30/12 10:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
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jimbo  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
With all due respect, the discussion started with this question: "Is a wodent wheel dangerous?"

"Dangerous" is a comparison; dangerous compered to what? How can the topic be discussed without bringing up the safety of other wheels?

Regarding my number of the other wheels sold being a guess, of course it is, because the makers of those wheels have not come forward and said how many they have sold. Seems like a fair guess to me, but if folks are really interested in a factual answer to the question of wheel safety, as opposed to just repeating a chant, why doesn't a Moderator JUST ASK the makers of the other wheels how many they have sold?

On using total incidents to measure "safety", safety is measured in accidents per item in use, not total incidents,
it's the "chance" of an accident happening. For example:

The "danger" of any one person breaking their cell phone by dropping it is the same today as it was 5 years ago, but the **number** of these accidents that happen every year is huge compared to what it was 5 years ago.

If someone asks the question: "Have there been more total accidents on wodent wheels than all other wheels?" the community can answer yes, because that is true, across the 100,000 wheels sold in the glider community over 12 years.

If someone asks if the wodent wheel is more *dangerous* than other wheels, that's a different question, because what they are asking is "What is the chance a glider will be injured using a wodent wheel versus other wheels?

That answer depends on how many wheels are in use and for how long, because the chance of an accident happening increases with more hours of use - as with cell phone example above. Counting total incidents does not tell us about the chance of an injury.

Another example: the chance of injury on a wodent wheel was extremely rare until THIS community can up with idea of putting a PVC pipe over the axle. When the number of these "covers" in use by this community started to get pretty large, the number of accidents **in this community** started to increase substantially.

Meanwhile, among wodent wheel owners who did *not* use this PVC pipe axle cover (which we warned not to use in 2007), accidents remained extremely rare.

Perhaps someone in the community could ask the makers of the other wheels how many they have sold, since they have not come forward? Then we could get closer to creating a real safety record, as opposed to counting incidents, which does not tell you if a wheel is more dangerous or not!


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: wodent wheel [Re: jimbo] #1293371
09/30/12 10:45 AM
09/30/12 10:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Perhaps someone in the community could ask the makers of the other wheels how many they have sold, since they have not come forward? Then we could get closer to creating a real safety record, as opposed to counting incidents, which does not tell you if a wheel is more dangerous or not!


And if the makers of the mesh wire wheels come forward, does this mean the maker of the wodent wheel are going to produce the exact number of wheels that were sold for gliders?

I mean arent they all just guesses? Nobody knows exactly how many were sold just for sugar gliders.

What we DO have though is folks that have had to take their gliders to the vet because of tail issues and the thing they have in common is the wodent wheel, which in many cases hair from a gliders tail can be seen.

One thing you are correct in Jimbo, we hear about it in within 'this community', which in actuality is a very SMALL population of the sugar glider owners out there. Makes one wonder how many times we do NOT hear of the wodent wheel accidents because they are not members.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293385
09/30/12 11:41 AM
09/30/12 11:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

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North Central Ohio
First, it is not a Mod's (nor GliderCENTRAL's) responsibility to ask any wheel maker how many wheels they have sold. If they would like to divulge the private aspects of their business, that is their decision and not my place to ask them (I say "my" because I am assuming that you are referring to me).

Second,
Originally Posted By: jimbo
the chance of injury on a wodent wheel was extremely rare until THIS community can up with idea of putting a PVC pipe over the axle.
Had there not been the tail injuries there were, or had the manufacture issued warnings, then maybe no one would have suggested any modifications to the product. Speaking of modifications, can you remind me what the "part" was that was being provided by the manufacturer prior to this large insert?

Third, "dangerous" is not a comparison. The definition of dangerous is (from dictionary.com)

Quote:
1. full of danger or risk; causing danger; perilous; risky; hazardous; unsafe.

2. able or likely to cause physical injury: a dangerous criminal.


So the opinion is the wodent wheel IS dangerous because it is risky and has caused physical injury.

Look, we are never going to agree on this. You obviously see them as a safe wheel alternative, I don't. The OP asked for opinions, and that is what we are offering.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293411
09/30/12 02:14 PM
09/30/12 02:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
tab Offline
Glider Lover
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Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
I will say this! Gena my breeder suggested a wodent wheel. But after much research I did ON MY OWN outside if this community I found several issues that made me uncomfortable!!!!

With that being said I bought a Raptor they offer an economical wheel that is much closer to the price of wodent wheels. I personally believe they are safer.

I'm not going to sit around and argue with jimbo. But gliders glide so when they run in wheel they like to jump as if they are gliding they cannot do this on a wodent wheel and let's just say wodent wheels are made for rodents (its in the name one letter didn't fool me) and a sugar glider is not a wodent I mean rodent just my two cents!!!!

Last edited by tab; 09/30/12 02:15 PM.

Mama to:
:wfb: Crackers, Rocky, Linus
:leu: Olive
:rbridge: Nugget
mlove WinnieFred my poodle , and the dachshunds Hemi, Zach, Piper, Vera, Cupcake, Penny, Faith

I'm not lucky I'm blessed!
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293556
09/30/12 11:41 PM
09/30/12 11:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Well put, tab smile Very nicely said. Gena, I do think you've gotten good opinions and I think you'll also see that the overwhelming response is that the Wodent wheels are NOT the safest wheel for your gliders and that there are much better alternatives out there. They may be cheaper at the onset, but they certainly won't be if you've got to make a vet visit for a tail injury. :thumbd:

Take a look at the Stealth, Fast Track, Custom Cruiser (make sure your cage doors are large enough for a Cruiser) or the Raptor wheels. Definitely worth it. thumb

Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293633
10/01/12 09:28 AM
10/01/12 09:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
tab Offline
Glider Lover
tab  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
Ty monkeyface :roflmao:


Mama to:
:wfb: Crackers, Rocky, Linus
:leu: Olive
:rbridge: Nugget
mlove WinnieFred my poodle , and the dachshunds Hemi, Zach, Piper, Vera, Cupcake, Penny, Faith

I'm not lucky I'm blessed!
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293667
10/01/12 12:57 PM
10/01/12 12:57 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Well Jimbo, I haven't seen any post from you that screamed, "your affecting my sales" louder than this thread.. you asked about us stepping forward.. why don't you take the lead.. set an example.. I know you haven't sold 200,000 wheels, maybe Eric but not you, therefore you are only speculating what another person's business is doing..That is including ours.

just to clear up some of your misconceptions.. as for riding the outside of the wheel on a mesh wheel.. yes the gliders that use the mesh wheel have that opportunity to utilize the whole wheel.. not just the 1 and 7/8 inch running track so they are herded like cattle, not to allow any flexibility in shifts as they run, with the protection on, we are seeing more hair losses on their back from rubbing the huge insert. at least before they could jump up on the bar to rest if they got ahead of themselves, now they can not. what have they to grab on to to ride it around? nothing , now they get flung on a solid track, at the mercy of the spin. Now it is near impossible for more than 1 glider to run in the wodent at a time.. where does the urine and the feces go? inside of the wheel with no way to escape, so it sits inside, and gets flung with the glider.

Since you know little to nothing about the cruiser, let me tell you, so you don't make the same mistakes again. The cruiser was designed to sit a minimum of 6 inches off the floor of the cage, just for the reasons you stated, there is a video if you care to watch it, that will show a glider under the cruiser with plenty of headroom while another is in the wheel. you will also see that the glider is not force to only make the movements that you think they should make, the concept behind the cruiser is not designed to be free spinning but a wheel they must pull to use (much like climbing a tree) and flipping around on tree branches, a wheel that is very difficult to get into repetitive movements. A wheel where the glider chooses which movements to make and when they wish to make them, they can ride the outside rim, they can ride the outside of the mesh, or they can choose to run inside. it is an exercise wheel, not just something that spins if you blow on it. not something they can just walk in to make it go.




I used the wodents, for more years than you have been involved with gliders, I lost one because she stuck her head out and hit a nearby branch while the cage mate ran in it, (which is how 2 or more ride the wodents). as a rescue home, I have had many a glider with tail injuries, you wouldn't believe how many wodents I have gone through because the washer come out, how many cotter pins catch the patagium, how many injuries that are because of a dirty axle, and I have suggested (long before eric decided to put the "guards" on,) to use pipe or something around the axle. I still offer suggestions to those that just want to throw their wheels away. although I think it is a good idea, I still try to help them save money..
the wodents will always sell more wheels because people think they are getting a good deal, when in reality they are only paying you and others for the risks that are involved. but they will get what they pay for, and for as many that is sold, only a percentage of those are still in use a couple of years later. Once people realize the risks involved, once they see how their gliders are affected, they switch as soon as they can. so as far as the Cruiser is concerned I ask you don't be so uneducated about my product, or what I have done that you would generalize the "mesh wheels"..

I truly am sorry that you have chosen to sell a wheel that this community feels is unsafe based on experience, not hearsay.

I personally would highly suggest the
Custom Cruiser
the Raptor and other wheel choices, for updated safety features that have the sugar gliders best interest in mind.

Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293692
10/01/12 02:08 PM
10/01/12 02:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Lori, :agreed: Good post.

Hey, let's be fair here...Wodent wheels are safe wheels for rats and hamsters! Though most hamsters I've seen are pretty lazy and didn't have any interest in wheels.


I will add that I've seen what happens to a glider when their tail gets caught on the Wodent wheel's center bar. The tail was degloved and the glider died! (probably from shock) I, too, have had many rescues though my home with tail injuries and all of them had one thing in common...Wodent wheels.

Yes, Transonic changed the design to put in the inner track, which further limits how a glider can run/play. But they still have done nothing to address the cotter pin holding the thing together. And there was a post with photos of what can happen to a patagium because of the cotter pin.

Yes, injuries are possible in any type of wheel. Injuries are possible in cages without any wheel at all. Injuries are possible in the wild. Accidents do happen (to all species of animals). But when we as a "community" see the same type of injury happening over and over from the same product, we tend to deem that product as unsafe.

I have a big box of brand new, never put together Wodent wheels sitting here (that I got from someone else) that will never be sold to anyone with gliders. They are simply not safe in my opinion and I would never be able to live with the guilt if I sold (or gave) one of these to someone with a glider and it cost that glider it's life. (or tail,or any other injury).


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: wodent wheel [Re: Dancing] #1293711
10/01/12 02:58 PM
10/01/12 02:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,827
Southern Virginia
R
rdobbie23 Offline
Glider Addict
rdobbie23  Offline
Glider Addict
R

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,827
Southern Virginia
Ok its been a almost 2 years since I had gliders. I just got to a point that I was ready again, and I got my sweet little Sucre....and WOW sooooo much has changed! And now that I read this, I guess i need to toss the wodent wheel that came in on Friday :-( I do not want anything to happen to him!


*Megan*

Owned by:
4 suggies :leu: Sucre & :rtmo: Bijou
:wfb: Bubbles & :rtmo: Baby Girl

Valley bulldog: Chassis
American Bully: Dink
Doberman: Sheba
American Bully: Grady
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293785
10/01/12 07:19 PM
10/01/12 07:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
tab Offline
Glider Lover
tab  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
Maybe u can get a refund or post it on craigslist and try to sell it to someone that has a Rodent.


Mama to:
:wfb: Crackers, Rocky, Linus
:leu: Olive
:rbridge: Nugget
mlove WinnieFred my poodle , and the dachshunds Hemi, Zach, Piper, Vera, Cupcake, Penny, Faith

I'm not lucky I'm blessed!
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293788
10/01/12 07:27 PM
10/01/12 07:27 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Jimbo I think you need to re read that thread again as it seems you may have missed something if your response to the link Peggy put up was
Quote:
Thanks Peggy, I've read it before and it's a great example of how "themes" get started on discussion groups.

There is nothing in this thread that points to the wodent wheel as the cause. Someone asks if there is hair on the axle and there's no reply. Nobody bothers to ask if there is a proper axle cover


as both of those questions and more was answered.

Also I wanted to address another point you made earlier you said
Quote:

On these newer wheels, make sure your stand is high enough so a glider riding around on the outside of the wheel does not get slammed into the cage floor, toys, or another glider. The more gliders you have in the cage, the higher the risk of this kind of accident.


I know you have repeated several times that gliders don't run on the outsides of your wheels, but to be honest I have seen them jump into a turning wheel, as well as hold on to the holes as the wheel was spinning.. so now I will ask you... has the wodent wheel also raised the stand for the wheel? I know for a fact that the cruiser has, I know the Raptor has, and I know the fast Track has.. so it would seem if that really is a safety issue that we felt needed to be addressed and have with our wheel, that maybe the wodent should also address it as well.

you said
Quote:

Another example: the chance of injury on a wodent wheel was extremely rare until THIS community can up with idea of putting a PVC pipe over the axle. When the number of these "covers" in use by this community started to get pretty large, the number of accidents **in this community** started to increase substantially.

Meanwhile, among wodent wheel owners who did *not* use this PVC pipe axle cover (which we warned not to use in 2007), accidents remained extremely rare.


Could it maybe possibly be that the accidents increased as more and more gliders began using the open wheels where they had more freedom of movement, but was unable to recreate those same movements freely in the wodent?.. well it seems that new "guards" which was nothing more than cold water pipe were not distributed with new wheels unless someone requested it, they were not sent out to all those 100,000 people that had wheels with safety issues, and when the new inner guard came out, they also were not distributed. they were however available for sale... but only IF you knew there was a safety issue at all. We here online seen the safety issue as one that needed to be addressed, something the wheel manufacturer should have done when the issues arose many years ago. but several years went by before the axle guard was introduced.. and was that done by you? NO.. no it was suggested by Sheila, a glider owner who was real upset about the injuries.

By the way.. your 2000 number is extremely low.. you should find out more about the various wheels, before trying to condemn them.. we as wheel manufacturers and sellers have used all the wheels available..we have critiqued each other, and helped each other make better and safer products for our customers gliders... can you say the same?

Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1295195
10/07/12 04:28 PM
10/07/12 04:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
Joey Member
jimbo  Offline
Joey Member
J

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
I can see from the emotional responses above this community is more interested in "being right" than getting to the truth. According to this community, exercise wheels for sugar gliders are so completely different they should be excluded from using the global legal standard for measuring safety that all other products are subject to. OK then…that would explain why there was no comments on the 2 main points, that is:

1. If there are 20X more of wheel A than wheel B in use, and if the safety of the wheels is equal, you would expect 20X more accidents with wheel A than wheel B. Counting accidents is not a measure of safety

2. The large increase in accidents inside the community connected to the PVC pipe cover, while at the same time no increase in accidents among those not using the cover

In closing out this chapter, I’d like to clear up some confusion in the previous comments.

My suggestion a moderator find out the number of wheels sold by other makers was made simply so the other manufacturers might find it OK to supply these numbers to a trusted 3rd party. This person could then report the TOTAL number rather than individual wheel styles, which would maintain privacy. I find it quite interesting the community isn't howling about not knowing these numbers, but I guess it doesn't matter if the real issue is being right rather than understanding the actual safety record.

I’ll repeat again Transoniq says they have sold 100,000+ wheels specifically to people serving the glider community, so it’s a good bet most of those are in the glider community. Bourbon, I talked about 200,000 *gliders* using those wheels, based on a (low) estimate of 2 gliders per wheel. I never said we sold 200,000 wheels.

Peggy, nothing has changed at the link you provided, except the owner confirmed there was no hair on the axle. So it seems less likely this was a wheel-related accident and probable a proper axle guard was not in use – otherwise, why check a covered axle? Still, nobody pursued these details of the accident, I guess because it’s more convenient for the community to just repeat the same old story.

I see nobody decided to comment on why the accident rate in this community is so much higher than elsewhere. Doesn't anybody at least find that interesting and worth discussing? In a previous exchange on this topic:

Question about wodent wheel

other sellers of the wodent wheel indicated no accidents from their customers. As I said previously, the "PVC Pipe" approach used by this community is likely responsible for nearly all the tail de-gloving incidents that have been reported in the past 5 years. Said another way, the problem is not the wheel, it’s the HUMANS who tampered with the wheel and changed the design based on a false assumption that was not properly investigated.

As far as working with the manufacturer / correcting problems / improving designs, it was Suncoast who engaged Transoniq in an active discussion about this problem. Understanding that many people outside this community would continue to buy the wheel for their gliders, we were looking for a long-term solution that would PREVENT people from increasing the risk of accident by:

1. Tampering with the wheel design
2. Failing to properly maintain wheels
3. Improperly assembling the wheel

The inner track is the answer to #1 and #2, and a new modification coming soon will address #3. So the implications above that Suncoast does not "care" are simply not valid; we’re trying to solve the actual problems for everyone, like people who cannot afford a much more expensive wheel. Expecting the manufacturer to replace or recall a product when human tampering caused the problem doesn't make any sense.

Meanwhile, some in this community will probably continue to mis-characterize the nature of these problems and rely on a challenged view of history to support their opinions, dragging out contaminated statistics from the "PVC pipe period" to support their case. Just remember those problems were self-inflicted on the community. I can only hope some of these folks will read this discussion and choose to be a bit more even-handed about their commentary. Perhaps a fairer approach would be to use the current safety record for the modification that has been around nearly 2 years now, instead of using years old stats?

For example, we find from the discussion above that the new wheel manufacturers were aware of the safety issue related to stand height and have all made changes to increase stand height. That’s a good thing, but I don’t see people still pointing out this was a dangerous situation or using old statistics to bash those wheels. Why then, are these same people focused on bashing wodent wheel safety using old statistics and ignoring the modifications that have been made? What’s OK for one wheel is not OK for the others?

I’m not asking people to “recommend” the wodent wheel; there are lots of reasons people might want a different kind of wheel. What I am asking is people be fair and honest about their safety assessments given the modifications to prevent use of the PVC Pipe covers and actual record of this redesigned product.

As I have said many times before in these discussions, it’s not my intent to criticize other wheel designs, in fact, I think they’re great and a good example of community innovation. All I am looking for is a fair description of all the facts. Wodent wheels may not be your favorite for a whole bunch of reasons, but they are not more "dangerous" than other wheels for sugar gliders when used as intended.


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1295213
10/07/12 06:26 PM
10/07/12 06:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
tab Offline
Glider Lover
tab  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
ok good for u guys u corrected some ur mistakes. Is that the pat on the back u have been looking for???

However I still personally will advise others to not purchase a wodent wheel. I much prefer pee and poo not slung all over my baby.

And did ya ever think we haven't got on the topic of what other communities say bc we are not members of other communities.

I know for a FACT other communities suggest things that I myself would not find safe (bc I happened to run across things by googling).


Mama to:
:wfb: Crackers, Rocky, Linus
:leu: Olive
:rbridge: Nugget
mlove WinnieFred my poodle , and the dachshunds Hemi, Zach, Piper, Vera, Cupcake, Penny, Faith

I'm not lucky I'm blessed!
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1295424
10/08/12 01:22 AM
10/08/12 01:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Also, if the center bar design had been safe to begin with and no accidents had happened, no one would have even suggest the "pvc bar cover" modifications to begin with.

Really, you can try to ignore the past but no one can grow from it. The center bars, covered or not, are a safety issue. That issue was addressed by the addition of the inner track.

That inner track does limit how a glider plays/uses the wheel. We know this because of our observations of how gliders play with/use other wheels that do NOT have that center in them. I don't think that is a "dangerous" thing but it does limit the gliders.

There is still the issue of the cotter pin. Yes, those gliders were injured. It did happen. It IS a safety issue that has yet to be addressed.

The solid track does cause the pee and poop to be flung all over the gliders when they are running on them.

The face of the wodent still is a risk to gliders hanging their heads out and being injured OR being injured while trying to jump in or out while another glider is running on them. Unless people want to have only one glider in the cage while the wheel is in use, there is no safe way to address that other than to take off that style of front face.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1295441
10/08/12 08:16 AM
10/08/12 08:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Wasn't it Transonic that were either giving/selling an axle cover? (I mentioned this earlier and there was no response to it.) This was before this larger inner piece. It was about the size of CPVC. I'm pretty sure this wasn't the "community", it was the manufacturer's answer to an ongoing problem.

Again I will reiterate that it is not my business to ask the other wheel makers out there how many wheels they have sold. If they choose to tell me, I will happily post them. And from the information that I personally know (oh yeah, I used to be one of those "other" wheel manufacturers), you will be very surprised at how many are out there. wink

I appreciate your comments Jimbo, but from the historic and ongoing issues, I simply cannot recommend a wheel that I personally feel is still dangerous to our sugar gliders.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: GliderNursery] #1295483
10/08/12 11:18 AM
10/08/12 11:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,389
Maryland
T
Terry Offline
Serious Glideritis
Terry  Offline
Serious Glideritis
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,389
Maryland
Wow, this is still going?

gena, your question as to whether or not Wodent wheels are safe, has been answered many many times. I hope you have found your way back to this post to review them. Plain & simple truth, Wodent wheels are safe for some small animals, sugar gliders are not one I'd include though as this wheel being safe for. As you can see by the opinion of many who have experienced the dangers to the sugar gliders this wheel has, and being there are several better & safer options, I would only hope you have come to a decision that would best serve your pet gliders.


Jimbo, you are not going to convince the experienced members and owners of sugar gliders that the Wodent Wheel poses no hazard to our sugar gliders anymore than we can convince you to only sell them for rodents, the pets that these wheels are safe for.

Everyone else, your points are well made and make more sense that I couldn't imagine anyone in doubt (other than Jimbo & other's who continue to advertise the sale of this wheel for gliders) that there are indeed valid hazards to these small and wonderful creatures we keep as our own.


Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
1 Sugie, (Ollie)
R.I.P. Lulu (2/28/12-10/13/17)
R.I.P. Skadoosh (2/28/12-3/26/18)
Re: wodent wheel [Re: Terry] #1295486
10/08/12 11:27 AM
10/08/12 11:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 781
Northeast Ohio, USA
Dallie Offline
Glider Guardian
Dallie  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 781
Northeast Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Terry
Wow, this is still going?

gena, your question as to whether or not Wodent wheels are safe, has been answered many many times. I hope you have found your way back to this post to review them. Plain & simple truth, Wodent wheels are safe for some small animals, sugar gliders are not one I'd include though as this wheel being safe for. As you can see by the opinion of many who have experienced the dangers to the sugar gliders this wheel has, and being there are several better & safer options, I would only hope you have come to a decision that would best serve your pet gliders.


Jimbo, you are not going to convince the experienced members and owners of sugar gliders that the Wodent Wheel poses no hazard to our sugar gliders anymore than we can convince you to only sell them for rodents, the pets that these wheels are safe for.

Everyone else, your points are well made and make more sense that I couldn't imagine anyone in doubt (other than Jimbo & other's who continue to advertise the sale of this wheel for gliders) that there are indeed valid hazards to these small and wonderful creatures we keep as our own.


Terry, Very Well Said! clap


wave Dallie
SpinZone Global

My Gliders: Boo & Bella

"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."





Re: wodent wheel [Re: Dallie] #1301737
10/29/12 02:13 AM
10/29/12 02:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Wyoming(ten Sleep) USA
Myst369 Offline
Out of Pouch
Myst369  Offline
Out of Pouch

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Wyoming(ten Sleep) USA
I am kinda sorry I started all this up again.... I just wanted to know if they were safe, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. Thank you all for the info.


To handle yourself, use your head. To handle animals and others, use your heart.Mom to - :cream: Autumn, :grey: Cloudy, Starman, Ayla, Stitch, :wt: Dani mosaic, :grey: 100% cream het August, Valkyre, and joey Indy.
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1301742
10/29/12 02:25 AM
10/29/12 02:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
wink


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1301782
10/29/12 10:52 AM
10/29/12 10:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
tab Offline
Glider Lover
tab  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
There will always be a hornets nest somewhere lol


Mama to:
:wfb: Crackers, Rocky, Linus
:leu: Olive
:rbridge: Nugget
mlove WinnieFred my poodle , and the dachshunds Hemi, Zach, Piper, Vera, Cupcake, Penny, Faith

I'm not lucky I'm blessed!
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