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Is this progress? #1419249
01/29/19 12:20 PM
01/29/19 12:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
North Carolina
Cuervosun Offline OP
In Pouch
Cuervosun  Offline OP
In Pouch

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
North Carolina
Need some advice on initial bonding with two new gliders (and I'm a first time glider mom). They're sisters, and have been here 2 weeks and are 11 weeks OOP. Feeding CritterLove. Everyone's eating/sleeping/playing well.

However, I'm wondering if I'm doing the bonding thing correctly. Periodically, I sit by their cage and talk to them quietly during the day. When they wake up at night, I sit quietly by their cage with the door open and say the same phrases over and over in the same soft voice. I found out pretty quickly that a traditional bonding pouch seemed to elevate their fear - they just wouldn't relax no matter how still and quiet I was. In hopes of giving them a more secure environment, I made a fleece pouch (with zippered top and mesh panel) and sewed it onto a stretchy tank top - it's not the most attractive thing in the world but it stops the girls from being in a swinging container every time I move and now they're able to feel my heartbeat, etc. If I lay the tank down next to their sleeping pouch and put a treat inside, the girls will walk right in. I've been wearing it for about 3 hours a day. As far as I can tell, they love it - they go right to sleep and there's no crabbing at all.

Here's the thing - in the first few days they were here, I could open the cage and sit and feed them treats from my hands, and as long as I didn't make any sudden movements, they would come right up and hang out right next to me. But it seems like the longer they're here, the more skiddish they get. Other than while they're in the bonding tank, they seem to be more scared, not less. Is this just part of the process? One step forward, two steps back? They'll still take treats from my hand, but it can sometimes take 10 minutes of me sitting completely still and talking softly with a yogi in my palm before either girl is willing to climb into my palm and take it. Although the more confident of the two, Thelma, will sometimes stay in my palm to eat her treat - which may the coolest thing I've ever experienced lol.

There's been no biting. Thelma's sister, Louise, is the most afraid and will bite if you don't respect the crab. But if you respect her boundaries and don't rush her, she's fine. I feel like I sound insane but I feel like they both want to trust me but just can't bring themselves to do it. Should I be wearing the pouch more or less? Am I talking to them too much or not enough? Is this a normal bonding pattern or am I setting us back without realizing it?

I'm in this no matter how slow the process is but let's face it - I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm trying to always be aware that in this scenario, I'm the King Kong and they're the unwilling captives. But I need to know if I'm doing more harm than good, and how I can do better. *sigh*

Thanks in advance.


Mom to Thelma & Louise
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Re: Is this progress? [Re: Cuervosun] #1419252
01/29/19 12:52 PM
01/29/19 12:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,750
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,750
Wisconsin
Have you tried tent time yet. Sometimes that helps, it lets them come up to you on their terms. I would keep wearing the bonding pouch as long as they are settling down and sleeping while you wear it.

You can also cut up some fleece squares and put them in your bra, wear them so they smell like you then put them in their sleeping pouch.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Is this progress? [Re: Cuervosun] #1419253
01/29/19 01:19 PM
01/29/19 01:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
North Carolina
Cuervosun Offline OP
In Pouch
Cuervosun  Offline OP
In Pouch

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
North Carolina
I've tried tent time once - the gliders were just kind-of paralyzed. They seemed more freaked out than anything else. I probably didn't help much either - I was really unsure how long I should do tent time, what they're body language was saying, etc. I figured I should hit the pause button and ask for advice before trying again....


Mom to Thelma & Louise
Re: Is this progress? [Re: Cuervosun] #1419259
01/29/19 07:58 PM
01/29/19 07:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,750
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,750
Wisconsin
Try it again, don't just dump them out of the pouch. Lure them out with a feather toy (no catnip). Offer them treats in there. If they want to sit in their pouch then hold it and rub the outside of it massaging them.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Is this progress? [Re: Cuervosun] #1419268
01/30/19 09:16 AM
01/30/19 09:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,146
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
Moderator
Ladymagyver  Offline
Moderator

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,146
SW Missouri
I found tent time more enjoyable in the mornings. About their bedtime. They will play but will go back to their pouch to sleep willingly. If you have natural feathers, you can interact with them too. If you choose at that point to put them in your new bonding shirt, add a couple of seedless grapes or apple slices. They will bet thirsty from their ordeal.


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....

Grace :bb:

Stewie :rtmo:




Fiona and Dot :rbridge: Love and miss you both!

Re: Is this progress? [Re: Cuervosun] #1419276
01/30/19 10:46 AM
01/30/19 10:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
North Carolina
Cuervosun Offline OP
In Pouch
Cuervosun  Offline OP
In Pouch

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
North Carolina
So I tried tent time again last night and I think it went fairly successfully. I tried it about an hour before they normally wake up. I transferred their sleeping pouch to the tent and just put in on the floor and waited for them to come out. Even though they were awake, and I tried coaxing them out with treats/feathers- I got nowhere. It was constant crabbing and what I can only describe as whack-a-mole behavior: sort of shooting out the opening of the sleeping pouch to bite then immediately retreating. After an hour, I finally just used a piece of fleece to scoop them out directly onto my chest. Once they were out of the pouch, they actually did great - they let me gently rub their heads, they explored all around me (and on me!), and at one point Louise kept trying to stuff her nose down my ear canal lol.

I think my uncertainty is boiling down to one question: does successful bonding rely on me consistently requiring them to interact with me, whether they want to or not? I don't mean me getting all bossy and aggressive or ignoring their feedback. I mean it like raising kids - there are certain things you make your kids do whether they like it or not because you're trying to raise good citizens. It was entirely immaterial if my 3 year old wanted to brush her teeth or share her toys - those were simply the realities of life and the sooner she realized that, the easier everyone's life became. Is raising sugar gliders the same? Is the most effective bonding technique to stop stressing about the fact that they're scared of me and get to the business of teaching them there's nothing to fear?

I really do apologize - it's totally not ya'lls job to hold my hand through this process. Gliders are such incredible animals, and I do feel an enormous responsibility to give them the respect and concern they deserve. I'm just very unused to being so clueless.


Mom to Thelma & Louise
Re: Is this progress? [Re: Cuervosun] #1419277
01/30/19 10:47 AM
01/30/19 10:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
North Carolina
Cuervosun Offline OP
In Pouch
Cuervosun  Offline OP
In Pouch

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
North Carolina
And I'll have grapes or apples ready for next time. Good point.


Mom to Thelma & Louise
Re: Is this progress? [Re: Cuervosun] #1419279
01/30/19 11:42 AM
01/30/19 11:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,146
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
Moderator
Ladymagyver  Offline
Moderator

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,146
SW Missouri
Well, unfortunately they are like 3 year olds... For about their entire life... Look at it as (1)you have good days and (2) not so good. The latter being their first year or two and #1 being the rest of their lives...

Daily interaction is necessary in the beginning for bonding and trust. Also building trust. Oh, I mentioned that... Patience and consistency is the key. Trust is so important. If they ever get loose, your in a strange place(like the vet's office), they have to know you are their safe place. They will come back to you, or go to their cage. (This is my experience. I was shocked the first time I accidentally left the door unlocked)

We don't mind helping out... Trust when I say, we all have been where you are now, it wasn't fun at first. You will make mistakes along the way. They will forgive you if they know you are part of their every day Life.


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....

Grace :bb:

Stewie :rtmo:




Fiona and Dot :rbridge: Love and miss you both!

Re: Is this progress? [Re: Cuervosun] #1419281
01/30/19 12:02 PM
01/30/19 12:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,750
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,750
Wisconsin
sounds like they are pouch protective. Dump them out earlier, sound like it went good once they were evicted from the pouch.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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