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Introduction Process Tips #1419395
02/08/19 09:31 PM
02/08/19 09:31 PM
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My two new gliders showed up and I thought I was perfectly ready. I figured they were young and could probably adapt easily. I set up introductions during the day when both the girls and the boys were tired and they seemed fine. Went in in the evening and Dobby threw a fit and balled up with Eilonwy and made very aggressive noises. I quickly pulled him out of the cage and put him in the spare cage. While I was doing that the other three all escaped. Then I found out that the spare cage I had (used to use it for another pet) had bars too far apart and Dobby also made his escape.

I caught Dobby and put him in a small travel carrier. Then Elric and Arwen started hissing at each other. Luckily Arwen bolted and I distracted Elric by offering him a ride. I put him in the tent. I caught Arwen easily and she went quietly back to the cage. Eilonwy proved to be a master at escape and it took me ten minutes to get her back in the cage.

I looked at trying to mod the cage I have but realized that there is no way it could hold a glider. I rushed out to the pet store and got the largest cage I could find that could hold them and got Elric and Dobby (Dobby did not go quietly).

I feel horrible as the cage is really small for gliders. On the bright side no one was hurt. Well, except for my ego and my confidence that I can handle these guys and gals. I ordered another big cage but the weekend will probably slow shipping. I will have to let the boys out a lot to play.

Anyways, any good tips on setting up better introductions? I figure I will keep the cages in close proximity once the new one arrives and start switching pouches. How do you do the actual intro?

Last edited by Xeno; 02/08/19 09:32 PM.

Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
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Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419396
02/09/19 01:43 AM
02/09/19 01:43 AM
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You need to do some pouch swapping and introductions are best done around 10 am when they want to sleep. Here is my article on introducing gliders: How to introduce gliders to each other.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419397
02/09/19 01:49 PM
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Thanks. Is it better to introduce one on one or are group introductions workable?


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419403
02/09/19 10:59 PM
02/09/19 10:59 PM
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I love that you named one of them Eilonwy. Not many people know of Prydain.


Judah :grey: Nala, Ronald & Reuel (formerly Eladio & Petal) :plat:
Anson :rbridge: Lele :rbridge: Laki :rbridge:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419404
02/10/19 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Xeno
Thanks. Is it better to introduce one on one or are group introductions workable?

It depends. I had better luck one on one. Starting with the less dominant one first.


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Paani] #1419410
02/10/19 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Paani
I love that you named one of them Eilonwy. Not many people know of Prydain.


Eilonwy was one of my first fictional crushes as a boy when I first started devouring books.


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419565
02/25/19 09:29 PM
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Well, I tried another intro in an enclosed space on Saturday morning. Elric seemed to get along with the girls okay but Dobby and Eilonwy were not happy with each other. Both went into the pouch with Arwen and it sounded like World War 3. I opened the pouch and helped Dobby get out. Elric went in and the three of them seemed fine but I felt bad. Dobby really needs his brother and I do not want to separate the two so I enticed Elric out and put them all back where they were.

Failure stings.

A shame. Elric and Arwen are my intrepid explorers and I think the two of them would love to hang out together. Eilonwy is still a grouch and Dobby is just placid.

I am going to wait a few months before trying again. It was stressful for them all. They were pooping everywhere and Dobby ran into the water dish and was miserable afterwards. Another reason I felt he needed his brother. Going to try a more low pressure meet up next time in a larger area but like I said, months away. On the bright side no one seems to be holding any grudges towards me over the meetup except for maybe Eilonwy but she is always crabbing about something.


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419568
02/26/19 01:52 AM
02/26/19 01:52 AM
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Looks like you started having questions about combining your 2 groups as the same time as me!
What I've been doing is pouch swapping with fleece squares inside that have my scent (mainly to help the lil ones also bond with me and get used to my scent).
Toy swapping as well as swapping food bowls.
I would take them out in thier sleeping pouches and just have the pouches together while I did treats and lovin but I didnt let them interact for a couple weeks.
And just recently I purchased some gutter guard plastic mesh and zip tied it together and put it inbetween the ladies cages and thier cages are now touching. The mesh was to prevent them from being able to reach threw the bars and fight/hurt themselves or one another.
About 3 days ago I started having success with everyone getting along!
Keep it up, you'll have them all together soon smile

Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419570
02/26/19 02:55 AM
02/26/19 02:55 AM
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If he gets along with everyone but the one glider, I would let the one glider live alone for a week or so. Continue to swap pouches and try introductions again in two weeks.

It is amazing how they decide to get along after living alone for a couple weeks.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419574
02/26/19 11:33 AM
02/26/19 11:33 AM
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Thanks, if that happens again I will set up a trio. Going to give them two weeks to unwind and try to help Eilonwy get over her constant jitteriness with a lot of tent plans and will then start swapping pouches and moving the cages closer again for another try.


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419580
02/26/19 10:36 PM
02/26/19 10:36 PM
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Short one-on-one meets might also help. Less stress when there's less activity around. Just another thought.


- Hutch

:plat: Arthur :wfb: Gwynevere :bb: Merlin :grey: Morgana

The epic saga begins here!
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419581
02/26/19 11:05 PM
02/26/19 11:05 PM
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I'm not the biggest expert on this but it kind of sounds like you are doing some things wrong.

1. we do pouch swapping for a FEW WEEKS, then cages 8" apart and continue pouch swapping for MORE WEEKS.
so before we even think about an introduction the gliders have each others scent for a month.

2. "Both went into the pouch with Arwen and it sounded like World War 3". was this a clean unscented pouch? if this pouch was
dirty and scented it was some gliders territory and the other glider was invading that territory.

Our introductions usually happen with ALL the gliders going into the tub, sometimes it's one glider added at a time, other times it
has been all in at one time.

the last intro we did was 4 glider with one added. We had two pouches in each cage, did a single pouch swap every 2-3 days.
I notice that the gliders would sleep in the scented pouch that has the other gliders scent on it, NOT the second pouch that was not
being switched. So after about 3 weeks the wife put them together and all was fine.

we have a colony of 6 and just got 2 return gliders. we will start pouch swapping in a few days, the 2 gliders go into a big cage soon,
once they have had a few days in new cage and are less stressed in their new home, we will start swapping, in a few WEEKS to a month
we will try intro in an unscented bathtub with unscented pouches. we will do some cleaning on the 6 colony area so they hopefully
won't feel the two are intruders once they go pack into their cage/room. (I have a glider room, and the gliders get free roam most of
the night, so the whole room is scented, hopefully they will be fine if tub intro's go good.)


John and Charlene
Gizmo :grey: / link :bb: / Sophie :wfb: / Riggs :grey: / scarface :grey: / gus :wfb:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419589
02/27/19 01:48 AM
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1. I had been doing a lot of pouch swapping beforehand but perhaps not long enough. I had been swapping for two weeks. The cages were also put close together a week before I tried the intro.

2. Yeah, it was an unscented pouch I had just washed.

I will try pouch swapping for a longer duration next time. I also need to figure out what to do with Dobby. He has been cleverly pulling the cage liner out from the bottom tray and building a fort out of it to sleep in. I am impressed but not sure why he is doing it.


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419590
02/27/19 02:17 AM
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well that sounds better. Just give them some time then.

if the cage liner is safe, maybe just give him one of his own. or maybe try the sleeping pouch lower to the cage bottom.


John and Charlene
Gizmo :grey: / link :bb: / Sophie :wfb: / Riggs :grey: / scarface :grey: / gus :wfb:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419591
02/27/19 03:45 AM
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Sugar did that a few times when I was doing pouch swapping. The lil ones both also did that. They all stopped when I made very sure there was a neutral pouch in the cage. It was hard keeping track of the neutral and cage swapped pouches for a while but I made a system.
It's very important to do as much scent swapping as you can while also finding a balance where the gliders aren't stressed out and feel like there is an invader.

Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419661
03/05/19 09:38 PM
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I have been swapping pouches for two weeks again. Usually they will sleep in the scented pouch but not always. Moved the cages about a foot apart last night. They are interested in each other and occasionally run around a bit trying to find a way to get to the other but I am not sure if that is friendly, curious, or hostile interest. Going to try intros a week from Saturday.

No one has pulled the liner up either. I did give them some eucalyptus leaves. When I swapped pouches the boys climbed over to find the girls had stuffed a lot of theirs inside the pouch,

Tent time is going well with both groups and crabbing is continuing to drop off. Feeling good. Now if I can just get them integrated so I can play with them all at once. That is my main motivation. Splitting time means they only get play about every other day.

I read that swapping cages can help but that seems like it would stress them out. Anyone have any experience there?

Last edited by Xeno; 03/05/19 09:42 PM.

Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419662
03/05/19 11:37 PM
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My experience with cage swapping was marking... It is a good experience, but they mark over each other's scent... So the smell might get a little much if you're sensitive to their smell. I did keep them in their own pouch while I swapped cages.

For me it was cleaning the main cage while they were sleeping. You have to wash everything. They stayed in a travel cage while I did this. Intros almost failed because my little boy(the new guy) Stewie didn't like the travel cage and the girls fussed while he was in and out of the sleeping pouch. He hated small spaces. Plus it is was new to him. But he's a bit hyper... I lied... He's super hyper... But it worked out in the end...


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419663
03/06/19 01:16 AM
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I personally haven't tried it. I thought about trying it with my girls but decided it would probably stress Sugar out. I'm not an expert on merging groups, but I do feel like my introductions went more successfully when I allowed my more accepting/curious glider (spice) to hang out in the same pouch with my lil ones for a few hours and then putting her back with her sister.
My theory was Sugar became more accepting and less threatened by the lil ones scents because her sister returned smelling of them and she was ok. After a couple days of that Sugar actually wanted to meet the little ones and only had a small squabble the first time. The next day I let her decide if she wanted to be in the pouch of 3 or by herself and she chose to be with everyone. The next day they were all together in one cage with zero fighting. I also chose to do any intros around the middle of the day or early evening when they should be sleeping.
I also swapped more than just pouches, I swapped foraging cups, tunnels, food bowls, anything I knew that they loved playing with or would definitely go to, I did that very slowly, like once a week when I rearranged thier cages and would watch thier behavior.
Also, do they talk threw the cage bars? Barking, fussing, chatter? Or are they more silent watching?

Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419665
03/06/19 12:41 PM
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I am not worried about smell so I think I will do it. I have also been moving hammocks back and forth and have been switching feeding trays and bowls.

They look at each other a little and then run all over that side of the cage. Looks like they are trying to get to each other. An occasional hiss but it is not the same sound as when they spit to clean themselves. Not sure how to read that. They seem curious and a little wary but I am not an expert on glider body language yet. They do bark but not really any more then they did before. Sometimes they run for the pouch after they try to get to the other. Two of the gliders seem much more interested. Elric and Arwen. My two adventurers. Elric is known for his jumping onto anything and anyone and Arwen is my sneaky girl who will take any opportunity to sneak out of her cage and run around the room. Eilonwy is always nervous about everything. Dobby occasionally seems interested in Arwen but quickly goes back to his wheel running.


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419672
03/06/19 04:06 PM
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I feel like introducing Dobby and Arwen first would be good, then adding Elric. Eilonwy seems like my Sugar and might take a bit to feel safe with the new gliders and I would add her last and let her have a choice of a safe space to go to (like her pouch) or the other gliders.

When my gliders started being friendly there was 2 very distinct sounds they made. One was a short loud TSSST noise and then there was actual chattering, almost like a clicking noise but it sounded friendly and it only happened in the beginning when they were entering the other gliders pouches. Also, both those noises were only made from my older more dominant gliders, my little ones always kinda chirped clicked. I feel the loud TSSST was like a dominant sound and the chattering was a more of a "ok we can be friends now" sound.

Curious is good! Also, them ignoring each other is a good sign. If the cages can be close together and the gliders will go off and play and eat without feeling the need to hide in pouches or fight threw the cage bars shows they are becoming more comfortable with their neighbors. smile
I would try and catch the hiss and see if that glider is biting the cage bars or lunging or if it's more of a "hey I'm over here" pst noise.

Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419673
03/06/19 04:19 PM
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Or if its Elric and Arwin in separate cages and they seem to be the two more friendly and accepting, I would do those 2 first then Dobby and Eilonwy last.

For me Sugar and Storm were the similar personalities from separate cages and they were both my more crabby and cautious ladies. Storm being younger was definitely more crabby and loud but she also wanted to stay with Snow.

Spice and Snow were my more adventurous ones and they were the ones to check out the other gliders and return home to let their sisters know everything was ok and also the ones who did a lot of talking threw the cages. Spice originally was territorial and would bite and hiss the bars and it later became more friendly as I scent swapped.

Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419674
03/06/19 05:01 PM
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Yeah currently it is Dobby and Elric in one cage and Arwen and Eilonwy in the other. I probably need to spend more time observing them. I have been doing tent time every evening switching back and forth between the two cages and have not been able to devote a lot of time to observing them. When I am in the room and not in the tent I am often a distraction since I am petting them or talking to them or feeding them. I will need to just sit in there read or something to try to get a better idea of what the mood is.


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419675
03/06/19 05:02 PM
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I might also try getting each cage in a bonding pouch and wear them at the same time and see what the reaction is.


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419676
03/06/19 06:37 PM
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Yes! I loved my double bonding scarf! I was able to take all of them out and not feel guilty that one pair was still up. And I was able to keep them safely separated. The first few times there was some crabbing on my little ones part and one of my older girls wouldn't sit still but after a few days they settled down a lot faster and my intros actually happened in the scarf.
And I know, it's so hard to not pay attention to them when they are awake!! But it does help you pick out future toys smile my girls are like cats, just put a box in there and they will play with that vs the new pricey toy that's hanging up rofl

Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419685
03/07/19 11:28 AM
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Okay, moved the cages closer. The girls were chattering with the boys but Dobby was crabbing. At one point all four faced each other directly. There was some paw swiping through the bars and Arwen was biting the bars. When I started worrying about Arwen’s teeth I swapped the sleeping pouches and both sides retreated to examine these alien invaders. In the end they slept in them. So far not convinced they are ready to meet. Dobby and Arwen in particular seem aggressive. Elric took one paw swipe. Eilonwy mostly just watched but backed up her sister. Dobby and Elric were crawling all over each other to get to the edge.

So far the only ones chattering seem to be the girls.


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419691
03/07/19 11:51 AM
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Arwen wants to meet the girls!

Dobby wants to protect is territory. He may need to go into time out while the girls introductions to Arwen happens. I would intro the girls to him one on one, see how it goes. Then let him take their scent back to Dobby.


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419694
03/07/19 12:12 PM
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Arwen is one of the girls. Elric is the other boy. I think you are mostly right though. I think when I do intros I am going to start with Elric and Arwen and then add Eilonwy if it goes well. Then give Dobby some time and hopefully reintegrate.

Last edited by Xeno; 03/07/19 12:18 PM.

Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419695
03/07/19 12:42 PM
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Texas
sounds a little bit like how my two pairs were. The little ones were very eager to be with the big girls and would chatter and watch them.
But after a few days of the big girls being aggressive threw the bars though, I decided I didnt want any broken teeth or arms.... so I put a very thin towel between the cages and pushed the cages together, I also rearranged the sleeping pouches to be parallel to eachother. That way they couldnt see eachother and want to fight but they were very close to one another scents and sounds.

After a while I replaced the towel with some cheap gutter guard mesh, so the concept was they would be close together but unable to fight threw the bars.
I figured if Spice was willing to bite bars more than once she was stressed out by the girls being close and I didn't want that to fester.
I wasn't in a hurry to get mine together though because my young ones needed to catch up in size and I wanted to bond with them enough that they would be ok with my hand scooping them up.

So I did all my scent swapping and them together in a kind of passive aggressive way. I would take the lil ones out and pet love on them and make sure I smelled like them and then I would take my big girls out, sugar is my chunker and wants treats and a few times she wouldn't take the treat from me because I smelled like the lil ones, she quickly got over that. Spice wants all the belly rubs and there would be a few nips but nothing serious and only the first few times. I tried to constantly find ways to get the lil girls scents on or around the big girls because they were the ones not wanting to be friends.

You mentioned getting bonding pouches and I think that would be a good investment, my advice is maybe try to find a larger sized one so you can still use them when they are all together smile
I love/loved my double bonding scarf and I think that's a great way for you to have them all with you and them close to each other as well.

I think your in the process of bonding with both pairs and trying to get them together right?

I don't know if any of my advice or experience is helping. I just know when I was asking for help on getting mine together I wanted someone to actually tell me what they did and what they looked out for.I read all the articles and many a YouTube videos (where I got the mesh idea from). And I understood the basics of scent swapping and neutral territory and felt like I would have it handled until I got them together the first time and my heart stopped when Spice balled up fought with the little ones, after that I only wanted to do introductions if it was going to be 100% safe or close to it!!!
Keep at it, it's so rewarding having them all together and definitely worth the stress and mini heart attacks. grin

Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419700
03/07/19 02:42 PM
03/07/19 02:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,647
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
Moderator
Ladymagyver  Offline
Moderator

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,647
SW Missouri
Originally Posted by Xeno
Arwen is one of the girls. Elric is the other boy. I think you are mostly right though. I think when I do intros I am going to start with Elric and Arwen and then add Eilonwy if it goes well. Then give Dobby some time and hopefully reintegrate.


Sorry I got the names mixed up... Sometimes my reading comprehension is 0%... I didn't read it again after I posted. I usually do, or try not to use names...

But then my mind was putting Dobby as a character in Lord of the rings, not HP... "Precious" kept running through my head...


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
Re: Introduction Process Tips [Re: Xeno] #1419703
03/07/19 03:12 PM
03/07/19 03:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 106
DFW, TX
X
Xeno Offline OP
Joey Member
Xeno  Offline OP
Joey Member
X

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 106
DFW, TX
I separated the cages a little later on. They are close and can still see each other but I doubt I will see another 2 on 2 pre-rumble standoff. Checked this morning and they were sleeping just switched pouches.

I need to work better on hand training my gliders. Most of them are comfortable climbing on me but have not mastered picking them up. Need to work on that.

I have two small bonding pouches. Might try to get them to sleep in those Friday night so I can wear both of them together.

And no problem with the mixup. Thanks for the advice. Feel like I am getting closer.


Dobby :grey: Elric :wfb: Arwen :plat: Eilonwy :leu:
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