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What do you think about... #1422226
04/09/20 11:48 PM
04/09/20 11:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
United States
bbbalson Offline OP
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bbbalson  Offline OP
New Member

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
United States
My guys are currently on the OHPW diet and are doing well. As I continue to research and learn about their nutritional needs (along with everything else) I am seeing that I can definitely refine their diet for optimal results. So I have been doing my due diligence to find things that are replacements with a better balance for things in the HPW mix and in the accompanying salads. The fruits and veggies are pretty straight forward, but in the HPW mix I look at the honey added to it as a empty, sweet flavor additive and wonder if there isn’t an alternative. I have come across a couple of items that I would like to get some feedback on. Please keep in mind that the product I use are as close to pure as possible with minimal to no extra sugars or other additives.

1) Almond butter. It has a good amount of protein, decent calcium and good flavor.

2) Collagen peptides. You can get these in flavors and have a large amount of protein, besides the other health benefits for joints, skin and hair.

Please weigh in with your thoughts about these two products. If anyone has any facts, that would be great too.

Current Research, Studies & Resources
Re: What do you think about... [Re: bbbalson] #1422229
04/10/20 12:42 AM
04/10/20 12:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,922
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
Moderator
Ladymagyver  Offline
Moderator

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,922
SW Missouri
I have fed HPW (not exotic nutrition brand, I used wambaroo and all ingredients required. Hpw can be mis construed. It's almost a generic name)

I have made OHPW, but decided to go with Critterlove complete (for when we are on the road and CL plus at home) for two reasons: first for travel, you can just add water and I don't have to keep up with the many ingredients of Critterlove plus. And I use their salads that complement the staple/nectar. I don't have to use "sprinkles" to level out the 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. Or figure it out myself. If I'm not mistaken, the person who put this diet together is the same one who patented CL, and added 5 different salad recipes. Critterlove.com

As far as honey is only sugar, that's not true unless it has been pasteurized. Natural cold filtered honey has bee pollen, and other natural occuring vitamins that my mind is drawing a blank on... But natural raw honey has many good things for humans too such as local honey to your area will help with allergens for an example.


Last edited by Ladymagyver; 04/10/20 12:47 AM.

Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....



Dot :grey:
Stewie :rtmo:

Fiona :grey: gangel
Re: What do you think about... [Re: Ladymagyver] #1422232
04/10/20 04:09 PM
04/10/20 04:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
United States
bbbalson Offline OP
New Member
bbbalson  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
United States
Originally Posted by Ladymagyver
As far as honey is only sugar, that's not true unless it has been pasteurized. Natural cold filtered honey has bee pollen, and other natural occuring vitamins that my mind is drawing a blank on... But natural raw honey has many good things for humans too such as local honey to your area will help with allergens for an example.


I am doing the OPHW with real Wombaroo, picked up from Karen. I dont mind the preparation as I am the cook in the house anyway. What I am referring to with the honey being “empty sugars” is that it doesnt really have a calcium or protein value to speak of. I do know that honey really is the perfect food (doesnt spoil, local helps with allergies, etc). I was just thinking maybe I could find a flavor substitute that had more calcium and protein than the honey itself. I’m not too concerned with the bee pollen as I am adding that to the HPW itself.

Re: What do you think about... [Re: bbbalson] #1422234
04/10/20 05:22 PM
04/10/20 05:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,922
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
Moderator
Ladymagyver  Offline
Moderator

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,922
SW Missouri
I've played with staple ingredients before and found that the person's who developed the recipe in the first place has made a few trial and errors just to get their glider to eat the staple and it be a good nutrional base.

All you can do is try. It's not all about nutrition, there has to be some palatability. They are sugar gliders, and they are attracted to things that are sweet.

A nutritionist who is familiar with sugar glider needs , knowing their metabolism, digestive system (did you know they have 2 colons- that's 2 separate bacterial tracts and cannot process insoluble fiber?) But I'm not a nutritionist.

We are all trying to do the best we can for these pets and yes, I've done many hours of diet research and continue to read about their diet for others who don't seem to know how/or want to do the research. Or can't tell old news from what the latest diet studies have found. We can't replicate what they eat in the wild because they are creatures of opportunity. And they eat what they can when they can, and only live about 6- 8 years, usually only breed once a year due to what's available for food.. We must be feeding them better than what's available in the wild because we can almost double their lifespan.

I don't have answer for you as far as what to substitute for honey. It's one of the ingredients I would never take out of their diet due to it's one of the few things that is similar to what their system is accustomed to.

Here's and article about pure and raw honey that I found interesting:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324997#what-is-it


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....



Dot :grey:
Stewie :rtmo:

Fiona :grey: gangel
Re: What do you think about... [Re: Ladymagyver] #1422239
04/11/20 11:05 AM
04/11/20 11:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,055
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,055
LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted by bbbalson
Originally Posted by Ladymagyver
As far as honey is only sugar, that's not true unless it has been pasteurized. Natural cold filtered honey has bee pollen, and other natural occuring vitamins that my mind is drawing a blank on... But natural raw honey has many good things for humans too such as local honey to your area will help with allergens for an example.


I am doing the OPHW with real Wombaroo, picked up from Karen. I dont mind the preparation as I am the cook in the house anyway. What I am referring to with the honey being “empty sugars” is that it doesnt really have a calcium or protein value to speak of. I do know that honey really is the perfect food (doesnt spoil, local helps with allergies, etc). I was just thinking maybe I could find a flavor substitute that had more calcium and protein than the honey itself. I’m not too concerned with the bee pollen as I am adding that to the HPW itself.


Originally Posted by Dawn
I've played with staple ingredients before and found that the person's who developed the recipe in the first place has made a few trial and errors just to get their glider to eat the staple and it be a good nutrional base.

I don't have answer for you as far as what to substitute for honey. It's one of the ingredients I would never take out of their diet due to it's one of the few things that is similar to what their system is accustomed to.


Not discounting any of what Dawn posted because she has given you very good advice in all her posts in this thread, the thing we have all learned about diets over the years is IF you change the ingredients n a diet as it was intended to be fed you are changing all ratios in that diet. It is no longer the original diet. You have created something else.

Many years of research have gone into figuring out that the 2:1 cal to phos ratio is what is needed/best for gliders in captivity. It is what they are the healthiest eating.

If you choose to change to something else then you have created your own diet which is perfectly fine if that is what you choose to do. If you choose to feed the
OPHW then I would make it as directed.



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Re: What do you think about... [Re: bbbalson] #1422254
04/15/20 07:15 PM
04/15/20 07:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,590
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,590
Wisconsin
I agree with Karen! Dawn has given you great advice.

I too feed Critterlove Plus with the recommended salad mixtures, we use mainly 1 & 3. My gliders are also part of the ongoing study that Critterlove is doing with their diets. We will be doing a blood draw next month.

The Critterlove diet plan, utilizing the five salad mixtures that you prepare at home has taken the work out of feeding your gliders a well balanced diet.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: What do you think about... [Re: bbbalson] #1422257
04/15/20 11:06 PM
04/15/20 11:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
United States
bbbalson Offline OP
New Member
bbbalson  Offline OP
New Member

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
United States
Thank you for your replies. In one quick thread I have found out the mentality of this forum. In the few replies I received from a moderator, the owner and an administrator I did not receive a single answer to my actual question, just plenty of comments about the why for my question. Its ok because I will just present my question to Mr Rich of Wombaroo and Ellen S Dierenfeld, PhD (the nutritionist behind the sugar glider dietary study), and yes I have access to both through personal friends. Thanks for all of your opinions but I will look elsewhere for a group of people looking to help one another without condemnation or judgement for new ideas. The oldest way is not always the best way.

Sincerely,

Craig

Re: What do you think about... [Re: bbbalson] #1422259
04/15/20 11:18 PM
04/15/20 11:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,055
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,055
LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted by bbbalson
My guys are currently on the OHPW diet and are doing well. As I continue to research and learn about their nutritional needs (along with everything else) I am seeing that I can definitely refine their diet for optimal results. So I have been doing my due diligence to find things that are replacements with a better balance for things in the HPW mix and in the accompanying salads. The fruits and veggies are pretty straight forward, but in the HPW mix I look at the honey added to it as a empty, sweet flavor additive and wonder if there isn’t an alternative. I have come across a couple of items that I would like to get some feedback on. Please keep in mind that the product I use are as close to pure as possible with minimal to no extra sugars or other additives.

1) Almond butter. It has a good amount of protein, decent calcium and good flavor.

2) Collagen peptides. You can get these in flavors and have a large amount of protein, besides the other health benefits for joints, skin and hair.

Please weigh in with your thoughts about these two products. If anyone has any facts, that would be great too.


I would not substitute the honey for either of these products. I believe that is what you wanted to know.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


Re: What do you think about... [Re: bbbalson] #1422263
04/16/20 09:08 AM
04/16/20 09:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,922
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
Moderator
Ladymagyver  Offline
Moderator

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,922
SW Missouri
Originally Posted by bbbalson
. Its ok because I will just present my question to Mr Rich of Wombaroo and Ellen S Dierenfeld, PhD (the nutritionist behind the sugar glider dietary study), and yes I have access to both through personal friends. Thanks for all of your opinions but I will look elsewhere for a group of people looking to help one another without condemnation or judgement for new ideas. The oldest way is not always the best way.

Sincerely,

Craig


I'm not sure why you didn't ask them in the first place( I know I would have) since they are friends. They have a lot more experience with nutritional values.

It has nothing to do with mentality, BTW. Good luck and I hope you find the answers you want to hear smile

Last edited by Ladymagyver; 04/16/20 09:09 AM.

Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....



Dot :grey:
Stewie :rtmo:

Fiona :grey: gangel
Re: What do you think about... [Re: Ladymagyver] #1422268
04/16/20 09:53 AM
04/16/20 09:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
Honey is not an empty additive actually.

The exact nutrition and chemical composition of raw honey varies between different countries and environments and depends partly upon which types of flowers the bees gather their nectar from. Regardless of these factors, honey still contains healthful compounds, such as antioxidants, amino acids, and vitamins.

One tablespoon or 21 grams (g) of raw honey contains 64 calories and 16 g of sugar. These values may vary between brands and batches.

Natural honey naturally contains small amounts of the following vitamins and minerals:

niacin
riboflavin
pantothenic acid
calcium
magnesium
manganese
potassium
phosphorous
zinc


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: What do you think about... [Re: bbbalson] #1422269
04/16/20 09:56 AM
04/16/20 09:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
And looking at items that have additional protein... well, that is just not needed. We have more than enough protein in our sugar gliders diets now.
And that Dr. D will also tell you, as she has told me many times.

But what you feed, and how you feed it, is totally your choice in the end.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


Moderated by  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver 

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