Glider Society: What version of Acrobat Reader did you use? I ask because I got one of those wonderful ERROR messages which froze the link & I may need to update Acrobat Reader.

again depending on the bugs.. I myself love to watch mine eat june bugs but my gawd they are 1:220 in ca:ph ratios,

they only get them a select times of the summer seasons, and when they do get them, that night they do not get ANY fruits and vegies for obvious reasons.

I guess where the bugs are concerned, the main reason for them, was for teeth cleaning, as pointed out, you can use live branches for that.

as most people already know, the biggest thing about the modifications, is in the mix itself. I am going to go ahead and make a post regarding modifications that have been made regarding the BML, just so others don't get the idea some people are not feeding the bml, if it is modified.. the MIX needs to nutritionally stay about the same .

As for the VIT A figures yes please pay close attention to those although relatively low in numbers it isn't in nutritional make-up.

You see we do use the herptivite because it does utilize beta carotine, which converts to it A AS the body NEEDS it, what is not utilized is passed out the system as waste.

Most other Vit Suppliments utizes Vit A directly, which is stored in the LIVER UNTIL the body needs it. after extended storage it turns into a toxin.

I guess I don't need to tell anyone the problems that we are TRYING to AVOID by utilizing the beta carotine vs the VIT A.

Much of the research we have done regarding the BML is based upon their needs. Based on many necropsies of gliders on MANY different diets. we have tried to address the problems as we have seen was needed. EX..We do know that HLP has been a problem in the past, thus we wanted to be sure we had a plan that addressed those problems, and still remained in healthy substance. Liver problems, we have tried to also address those, not that the BML was causing them, but various other things ex.. vit A toxicity, regeneration etc..

There were times it would takes months for broken bones to calcify, the common practice back then was to aputate the broken area, some vets still do this with tails and broken legs. We are finding the BML aides in the regeneragion of the cells. We see first hand the research has paid off. is it perfect? NO we would be pompus to say that. I guess what Dr Ross may have been saying is that you have to have a goal to set out to "fix" something. Thats what we have done, we have had our goals, based on what the testing/necrops's etc, have showed us is needed.
So in essence why fix something that isn't broke.
I understand that the idea is not to fix the BML, but to help others modify it.

In the post I will make regarding the modifications, I will also explain ways to "modify" the BML in ways it doesn't mess with the ratios

Yes plenty of blood work done on many gliders, that is all part of the research over the years.

Mind you again we have not made any money on the BML, nor do I ever want to. I have had many offeres to commercialize it, my response being if I ever did, the proceeds would go back into the Research/EVF fund.

The team and I have done all we have for the health of the glider. We have multi-genrations on the BML with great success, also the rescues, sick and injured gliders have proved the BML time after time, so I will not defend the BML nor it's ingredients. The BML can stand up for itself now.

Schlep, Randy and others, please understand that you can give your glider things for a short period or once in awhile without killing them.. I am adament about not modifying the mix, but we also have to use common sense where offering the extras on the side are concerned, I guess a good example would be a kid at a birthday party eating candy, cake and ice cream, but still offering him his dinner. that one day is not going to throw his whole system out of whack. It is when you are not consistant with the main meals that problems arise. The BML plan was designed to be that Nutritional base. The main meal. It was designed to be simple and carefree so people didn't have to worry about those facts and figures, what vit does what, what acids are good and not. etc. It allows for the variety of different items to eat. The MIX is something that should stay nutritionally sound.

I do want to add that the diet testing will go to a research fund, and not to the EVF. I as well as many wholeheartedly support both funds.
Just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding there.

Let me ask something of all those out here.

your ages range generally between 16-70 how many people really know what our needs and requirents are regarding diets? I was raised that so much dairy, so much bread, so much meat, so much fruits and veggies.. general guidelines. we know what is fattening unhealthy etc.. but keep in mind something.. do we have a huge problem with calcium defiency? cell regeneration? healing? etc..??

The idea is to stay with a nutritional base..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bourbon:
<strong>I have had many offeres to commercialize it, my response being if I ever did, the proceeds would go back into the Research/EVF fund...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just wondering why you wouldn't want to do this? (As far as the money goes, you should take it! It's America.) WOW- would this makes our lives a little easier. (Please do not think/say I am lazy! I mean easier emotionally.) I am not a vet, but I am a thinking, intelligent individual. I do realize that sugar gliders may have special needs due to the fact that they have NOT been domesticated. However, most people don't feed their dogs and cats what they would eat in the wild (raw meat). They feed them a commercial product. Do these animals respond well because they have been domesticated longer? Do you, Bourbon, feel that the quality might be compromised by a producer? I personally can see the benefits both to human and glider having a commercial product. Why the hesitation? Just curious, not controversial. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

One thing I have said time and time again, the only reason I do what I do is for ALL gliders, not just mine,

I for one do not want to get into the religious issues, and that is not my intentions, just my beliefs. Those who are offended I am sorry.

But God is a very important part of my life, God has given me gifts which I share freely, A great mind, a one on one direct line into the gliders, a great set of friends and colaborators, and he has also given me a great team who feels the same as myself. (Not necessarily the religious views, just that we don't do this for money or fame, we do this for the gliders.)

I do not believe in organized religion, and some religions believe in tithes 10% etc.. I have always given back to nature for al that nature has given me. If there were not people out there fighting to save these guys where would they be? After all they are not in the natural habitat with their own flora and fauna as they were intended. It was not their choice to be brought here, caged, and fed their food. But now that they are here, we all have to try to do our best to care for them to the best of our ability.

MONEY can not buy that, it first has to start with the heart. and they all have my heart. There is not a price high enough that could ever replace the great things research has accomplished. We do have funds setup for those that WISH to donate to aid in the research and to help with vet bills.

I have spent much money out of my pocket as many others out here, my team included have spent out of theirs. We do it because we want to. I have never had a problem with sharing anything that could save gliders lives.

Please don't anyone think I have so much money I can't use more, as that is far from the truth, I am very much like many out here, I have lots of bills, and little money, sometimes I have things that get shut off, and have to struggle. But we all started this with no money compensation, and we can freely make changes as our research sees fit.

Do I think that commercializing a diet drops it's quality? I feel that that has to fal into ones own personal values. I have spoken with a few about it, and to make it into a commercial product means drying it out, preserving it etc.. it takes away from some of our main issues with the BML, things like, at least with the BML, YOU know what goes into it, you mix it yourself, it allows for variety, and it is a sappy mixture. You can't get a more fresh product, if you make it yourself now can you. you don't have to worry about shelf life or bad batches, etc.. The ingredients all exept the vits and calcium are all fit for human consumption. Did you know that most ingredients sold to petfood manufactures are actually rejects from the the human standards? We have worked very hard to allow the BML to be free, as cost effective as possible without complromising it's integrity. There are commercial glider diets out there, if you chose to use those go for it. The BML may not be for you. The BML plan (recipe) will remain for now, as it always has in the past, free to glider owners throughout the world.

There are plenty of people out there that want to help and don't know how, the EVF and the research fund is a place they can start. helping others who haven't been given proper guidance regarding the care on handleing of their gliders. The community works together for each other. Why should I be any different?

<small>[ 01-05-2003, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Bourbon ]</small>

First I wanted to clear up that my name is not glider addict <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It is K & D Exotics or Ken & Danielle. Now I did not want to say that insects have no nutritional value. I was trying to say as Randy so kindly did that the insects were not added to the BML diet for their nutritional value entirely. They were mainly added for cleaning teeth and I have chosed to use apple tree branches for this instead of feeding the insects that could bring alflatoxins into my gliders lives. As Bourbon stated if we are going to modify an item in the BML diet PLAN then we need to know why it is there in the first place before we can change it. A lot of people still feed the insects because they assume they are there for the protein and some people have taken that to the extreme of feeding other proteins in place of the insects if they so choose not to feed insects for one reason or the other. I wanted to point out that insects are not needed for the added protein and they do not need to be replaced by 3TBS of other proteins. Now when you have a pregnant or lactating female they do need a little more protein then the BML has (not a lot) so I do feed an added protein 2 times per week for those females. Notice I do not do it on a nightly basis. I also do not give them 3 TBSP of it on those occassions. The BML mix has enough protein in it for the gliders that are not being bred. Some people may disagree and that is ok. Everyone has to come to their own conlcusions based on what they know and feel comfortable with. I have drawn my conclusions not only based on my on research, but also based upon my conversations with Bourbon, Dr. Bruce Ross. Too much protein can actually be dangerous so I am cautious not to feed too much. I just felt it should be explained so that people realized they did not need to add so much protein to their diet if they feed the BML mix.
Boubon thanks for your posts as they were great. I am in no way trying to start a debate on the protein levels as that was recenly done and I realize everyone has their own opinion on this. This just happens to be mine. I just felt that the people that haven't researched this much or haven't had the benefits of speaking with Bourbon directly could benefit from this knowledge. It's up to you what you do with it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We all have to feed what we feel comfortable with based on what we know and I realize this and totally stand behind that. This just happens to be what I feel comfortable with. Yes I have modified the BML to some degree by doing this, but in my mind I replaced the insects with what they were meant to do not with more protein. So therefore in my mind I have maintained the nutritional value of the BML and not altered it a great deal.