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Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #302263
05/31/07 12:08 PM
05/31/07 12:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
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Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Jockeys - would you trust the breeder to do the same surgery to you, performed the same way? No meds, etc?

I'm sorry - I just don't think that would be a responsible thing for a breeder to undertake.

When I bred rabbits, there were many things I did myself to cut costs - it *is* a business, and I did have to look at it that way. I had to make decisions weighing the cost all the time. It is a sad fact. However, medical procedures were NOT among the things I decided to cut costs on. (Strangely, I always fed my rabbits the top of the line food, too.)


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ValkyrieMome] #302275
05/31/07 12:21 PM
05/31/07 12:21 PM

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Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Jockeys - would you trust the breeder to do the same surgery to you, performed the same way? No meds, etc?


Of course not. I am a human, and it would be illegal to perform any kind of surgery on me, in any manner, without years of specialized training and certification.

It's really apples and oranges to compare people with gliders. I mean, as nice as your glider's cage is, would you be willing to be confined to a cage, even if it was big and filled with toys?

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #302276
05/31/07 12:30 PM
05/31/07 12:30 PM

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I've heard there is a breeder in Tenn. as well who does it. There are probably more than we know. This is sad. Shouldn't performing operations on an animal be illegal?

Does this breeder do it automatically with all males or does he charge extra?

Did you get your baby from Traders Village?

Last edited by kobra; 05/31/07 12:31 PM.
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #302279
05/31/07 12:41 PM
05/31/07 12:41 PM

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In most states it is illegal to perform surgeries on animals without a license and this breeder should be turned in!

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #302293
05/31/07 12:51 PM
05/31/07 12:51 PM

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I went to a ferrit show the other day. They said intact females will die if not bred and that when you buy them they are already neutered. I wonder what process they take.

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #302306
05/31/07 01:03 PM
05/31/07 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
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Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
I apologize, Jockeys. I usually refrain from making personal attacks. I was just flabbergasted and appalled.

Back in Texas, I grew up with the stories of farmers who would neuter their bull calves with their teeth. Those stories were always sort of fascinating in a sick and horrible way. That's what Luke's neutering brought to mind.

I just can't imagine ...

Last edited by ValkyrieMome; 05/31/07 01:03 PM.

Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #302357
05/31/07 02:06 PM
05/31/07 02:06 PM

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Originally Posted By: kobra

Does this breeder do it automatically with all males or does he charge extra?

Did you get your baby from Traders Village?


He does it on demand, at no charge. Since I was getting a boy girl pair that were siblings, I didn't want them breeding.

As far as where I got them, I would never buy ANYthing at trader's village, I'm not a big fan of being stabbed/mugged so I never go there. I got my gliders from this guy and then picked them up from him locally, at which time the neutering was conducted.

It maybe that he gave the glider some kind of analgesic while I wasn't around, all I noticed was some bactine or methiolate or something that he swabbed on afterwards.

I'm not a glider expert, in fact I'm pretty new on this scene, but the glider didn't seem to be too ticked off, and it certainly hasn't had any effect on his health, so I really don't see the big deal.

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #302366
05/31/07 02:20 PM
05/31/07 02:20 PM

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Jockeys, I think many people look at nuetering at home as a risky thing

Eeek, hit submit before I was done...

The glider may not be in pain now but he likely was at the time, plus gliders are notorious for hiding any ailments and pain...

Don't get me wrong, I respect your stand on this subject, I just thought I'd attempt to let you know other people's stance without feeding into any drama smile

Last edited by Jhessail; 05/31/07 02:22 PM.
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #302370
05/31/07 02:24 PM
05/31/07 02:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
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Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Actually, I looked at the page you referenced. Many things on that site go against what many here on GC believe. I am not really fond of the diet he recommends, for example.

I am not a glider expert. There are many different opinions, and putting our opinions together for discussion makes the glider community stronger. I just have read everything I can on many forums, and his methods for "hand taming" and his recommended diet ruffle me the wrong way.

If it works for you and your two, that's great.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ValkyrieMome] #302380
05/31/07 02:36 PM
05/31/07 02:36 PM

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Well I certainly don't think the breeder is infallible, and I don't do everything he recommends. I have tried his diet and taming methods, and I have tried BML and other taming methods and found them to work out better, so I switched. But I wouldn't necessarily say that his methods were harmful or anything, just sort of unorthodox.

For instance, the breeder was the one to recommend letting the gliders play in hamster balls, which they absolutely love. I definitely would not have thought about doing that on my own.

As far as the neutering goes, if I had to do it over again I might not do it that way, but it was the best thing I had going at the time, so I went for it. *shrugs* Live and learn.

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #302388
05/31/07 02:40 PM
05/31/07 02:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 210
Ohio
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 210
Ohio
Whoa down folks lets get back to the original topic. I think if anyone wants to know what to expect and what to ask the vet about should contact Xfilefan. She will give you the low down and then some.


Zookeeper of
our special kids Scooter, Snoopy, Digger, and Rascal
3 Dogs - Trixie and Lilly
3 Cats - Munchkin, Gizmo and Squeaker
1 Naked Mole Rat aka Chihuahua - KiKi
2 Brats (Kids)
and 1 Boss or so She Thinks.LOL (The wife)
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: SpikenPea] #302415
05/31/07 03:14 PM
05/31/07 03:14 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,232
Springfield, IL
uraqt33 Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,232
Springfield, IL
When it comes to bad breeders...I just want to beat them over the head! People who don't know any better go to these ignorant breeders and assume they know that they are talking about just because they are a "USDA licensed breeder."

Also, I agree that the diet "this guy" recomends is not balanced at all for a glider. For instance, he says to use cat chow for a dry staple diet and a calcium suplement made especially for reptiles. Is he crazy? OK, I'm getting off this post...I just needed to vent.


April
Wife to David heart
Loving mom to 9 glider fuzzbutts
My little angel angel angel : Skittles, Herky, and little Mr. Pickles


Glider Toys Unlimited
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: SpikenPea] #302427
05/31/07 03:26 PM
05/31/07 03:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
That "guy" that you bought from is a mill breeder. Think of all the horror stories you have ever seen/heard about puppy mills and apply them to gliders.

Chances are, had you bought at Trader's Village, you would have been buying either from one of his "agents" or someone that buys in mass quantities from him to begin with. Either from him or one of the other mill breeders in TX who all practice the same horrendous methods of houseing and care.

I'm very happy your little one suffered no bad effects of this cruel fashion of neutering but sadly, your little one is probably the exception to the rule. Self neutering like what he did is dispicable and in many states, illegal. It is considered "practicing veternarian medicine without a license". Self neutering is usually only done on "live stock" which is how he sees gliders. Most of us consider them much more than just "live stock".


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: Dancing] #302430
05/31/07 03:35 PM
05/31/07 03:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Teresa-
How do you know he is a mill breeder? Have you heard of him before?

Read this with a truely inquisitive, "I would like to know, I'm curious" tone of voice. NOT an "oh yeah! I'm gonna start something" tone of voice!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ValkyrieMome] #302583
05/31/07 05:45 PM
05/31/07 05:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
pebbles1975 Offline
Glider Slave
pebbles1975  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
Also the lady at Caesar Creek flea market offers to do them for like $50.00 and it takes like 30 min. or something like that.


Angie

Harmony :rtmo: , Kahne :wfb: ,
Navaeh :leu: , and Nova :rtmo:
Marsh: albino/creme Het , Mellow: Albino

http://www.freewebs.com/clementsgliders/index.htm
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: pebbles1975] #302586
05/31/07 05:46 PM
05/31/07 05:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
pebbles1975 Offline
Glider Slave
pebbles1975  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
BTW....I would never put my boys through that just was saying I think there are more people that do it and think it is fine.


Angie

Harmony :rtmo: , Kahne :wfb: ,
Navaeh :leu: , and Nova :rtmo:
Marsh: albino/creme Het , Mellow: Albino

http://www.freewebs.com/clementsgliders/index.htm
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: pebbles1975] #303101
06/01/07 09:47 AM
06/01/07 09:47 AM

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Dancing:
I cannot speak to that. I went over to this guy's house, not some business, and I can say that he showed me around and showed me the cages and such where the gliders were kept, and they were large, clean, and the gliders were healthy and happy looking. *shrugs* It may be that he breeds at other locations and they are less accomodating, but all the gliders I saw, and the 2 gliders I bought, were healthy and well cared for.

I'm not entirely sure what kind of horror stories are told about this fellow, but he was very straightforward in his dealings with me, and his gliders were well cared for.

AngieClements: I believe the entire procedure took under 5 minutes.

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: uraqt33] #303107
06/01/07 09:55 AM
06/01/07 09:55 AM

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Originally Posted By: uraqt33
a calcium suplement made especially for reptiles. Is he crazy?


Apparently about as crazy as Bourbon, because BML has RepCal in it. (also, Herptivite, a vitamin "especially for reptiles.") That's doubly crazy, huh?

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #303115
06/01/07 10:05 AM
06/01/07 10:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
Glider Addict
Usha77  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
Yeah, I was gonna say something about that, too...guess a lot of us are crazy... dunno I use BML with the reptile vitamins...


Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #305997
06/04/07 11:24 PM
06/04/07 11:24 PM

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Originally Posted By: jockeys


As far as where I got them, I would never buy ANYthing at trader's village, I'm not a big fan of being stabbed/mugged so I never go there.


I haven't been on in awhile. Um okay, I didn't know Traders Village was a dangerous place. We're talking about the one in Houston right. I have taken my kids with me there a few times. I'm not originally from Texas.????

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #306222
06/05/07 09:24 AM
06/05/07 09:24 AM

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Originally Posted By: kobra
Originally Posted By: jockeys


As far as where I got them, I would never buy ANYthing at trader's village, I'm not a big fan of being stabbed/mugged so I never go there.


I haven't been on in awhile. Um okay, I didn't know Traders Village was a dangerous place. We're talking about the one in Houston right. I have taken my kids with me there a few times. I'm not originally from Texas.????


No, the one in DFW.

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #306284
06/05/07 11:19 AM
06/05/07 11:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Quote:
I mean, as nice as your glider's cage is, would you be willing to be confined to a cage, even if it was big and filled with toys?


Aren't we, though? It's a bigger cage, and we have the choice to open the door (if you can afford to go anywhere), but a house is a cage nonetheless-a confining box. An office or workplace can be, too-and therein is the majority of one's life.

As far as neutering

If it can feel pain, I think it's needless suffering to do it yourself. A glider will scream if severely hurt (I've had the misfortune to hear it-ONCE-and it's not something I ever want to hear again). Mostly, even more than cats and dogs, they hide pain and don't show it on the outside until it's unbearable (because in the wild a sick or injured glider is a dead one). A glider can have a foot crushed in a cage door, and not make a sound. Accidentally step on a dog or cat, and you will know about it-domestic and wild animals do differ in that regard. We know from the SM's that not only do they feel pain, but can, in essence, commit suicide because of it if there is no intervention. I know how to do them (neutering) -BOTH ways (medical and DIY). I had a broker here BEG us to tell her how for 2 years. I would not, because I don't believe it is ethical or in the best interest of the animal. I would cause a living thing to suffer at my present level of knowledge, were I to do it myself, and I don't feel it's my right to do so. I could just let them breed until they died(nature) if that were the case-why neuter at all? Nature didn't provide for it. So since the technology is there to alleviate unnecessary suffering during a procedure that is decidedly unnatural, or not within the bounds of nature, I think it's responsible as care takers of our animals to see they don't suffer unnecessarily when we keep them in our homes for our pleasure and benefit, and not from any necessity. A vet bill is a small thing to make the procedure as comfortable as possible-that goes for both people and animals.

Please don't take this in the wrong tone of voice (I'm not angry, or snide, or anything else). If spoken it would be in a quiet, even tone. And it is only MY opinion. Everyone is entitled to one, and anyone else is entitled to disagree with anyone else's if they wish to do so. Just thought I'd put mine out here, too.

Edit: I've also personally met the guy at his house to buy my first little girl-before I knew better. I agree with Teresa.

Last edited by Xfilefan; 06/05/07 11:21 AM.

Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #312574
06/12/07 03:15 PM
06/12/07 03:15 PM

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QUESTION?

Are we saying the Pom Poms should or should not be removed?

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #312590
06/12/07 03:25 PM
06/12/07 03:25 PM

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I believe it depends on the vet.
As far as I know, in most animals, vets are leaning towards leaving the poms. I know that both my parent's dog, who is 8 now, as well as my brother's dog, 5 years, still have them (though, it's pretty much just a flap of skin). There's less to the surgery, generally quicker recovery, and less chance for complications.

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #312598
06/12/07 03:37 PM
06/12/07 03:37 PM

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One of the first things I ever read about neutering was on the ISGA website. Is this really a legit association (recognized)?

I noticed they have the at-home neutering instructions posted on their website. Has anyone voiced concern to them about posting this?

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #312604
06/12/07 03:42 PM
06/12/07 03:42 PM

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ok, confused here someone was talking about SM? (I think thats what it was) It had to do with the pom being removed. I'm going to get Zander nuetered soon...

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #312612
06/12/07 03:47 PM
06/12/07 03:47 PM

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SM, or self mutilation, has nothing to do with whether the poms are removed or not. SM is an animal's natural response to pain. They attack the spot that is hurting them, which in turn makes the area worse, and the cycle continues.

SM is a possiblility after a neuter, or any wound for that matter. With neutering, your best bet is taking preventative measures by working out a pain management regimen with your vet. This is also why it is important to take your glider to a vet if they injure themselves, as there is the potential for SM.

Re: Step by step neutering instructions [Re: ] #312633
06/12/07 04:10 PM
06/12/07 04:10 PM

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Ohh I never realized SM stood for Self Mutilation. Now it makes sense! hehe dumb moment there!

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