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"Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
#785475
05/28/09 12:34 PM
05/28/09 12:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228 USA
IowaMisty
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OP
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It seems from what I've been hearing from different people, that there is a lot of confusion on the platinum gene & how it works. My questions though have been specifically related to "platinum" vs "white platinum mosaic". These are the conclusions I've drawn. I'm hoping to get some feedback on whether this is correct or not. We just got a glider from Priscilla, which she has told us is considered a "light platinum white mosaic pinto". I'm not questioning that or trying to say she's wrong. But I do have some things I'm trying to sort out. 1. It's my understanding that a "WHITE mosaic" is technically a glider that has more white on it than grey/black/normal coloring. True or false? 2. It's my understanding that in a case like this, the word "platinum" or "light platinum" is being used more to describe the color of the grey that does exist on his body - meaning the hairs that are grey are a lighter more platinum-like color than the normal grey/black colorations of a "normal" glider. True or false? 3. It's my conclusion that the word "platinum" being used to describe the coloring in a mosaic is different from the word "platinum" being used to describe a regular platinum glider (like Haley, for example). To further speculate, I would assume that if I paired my light platinum white mosaic with a platinum glider, we would probably not get platinum colored joeys (but could possibly get white mosaics with some platinum-like tones to them). My white mosaic does not have any platinum in his lineage that I'm aware of. Does that conclusion seem correct? 4. It's my conclusion off of this, that in coming up with adoption pricing for joeys, one could charge platinum rates for a platinum glider and white mosaic rates for a white mosaic glider.......but probably would not add to the pricing of a white mosaic just because he/she looks to have a platinum coloring to his grey. Does anyone else find this confusing that we're using the same terminology to describe platinums? One being an actual color variation off of the normals and the other being just more of a description of the look of the grey on the white mosaics (not so much an actual color variation in the DNA). Are you guys also seeing this as two different things or am I understanding this all wrong? I just hate to be calling my little guy a platinum white mosaic & confusing people because he's really not from platinum lines....but yet he does have a lighter coloring to him, like his stripe is light. I don't exactly have a trained eye for these things yet though. I'm not really asking you guys to tell me what my little guy is. I'm just more trying to figure out if I'm understanding the use of the word "platinum" correctly, so I don't go around confusing other people about it. Here's a pic of my "light platinum white mosaic pinto" glider: Misty
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: gliderboy4life]
#785578
05/28/09 04:29 PM
05/28/09 04:29 PM
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Babydevilsangel
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Babydevilsangel
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Misty, I've recently been wondering the same thing. It is confusing that "Platinum" is being added to anything if it is lighter in color, but in my opinion, is misleading.
You are correct. A mosaic is a mosaic regardless of the coloring being lighter or darker... Just as a classic gray has different tones, from reddish to goldish, to grayish... it's still a classic gray.
Lately there have been "Platinum Cremino's" being advertised and "Platinum Mosaic's" being advertised. The funny thing about the supposed "Platinum Cremino" is that it looks no different than a Cremino. I'm not sure why they are being labeled that way. With the "Platinum" Mosaic's, there is at least a color difference.
I am in no way intending this to offend anyone. Just wish we could clear up what is becoming more and more confusing in the community.
I think we should make a motion! lol
Maybe the "Platinum Mosaic's" should be called either White Mosaics or even Silver Mosaics.
Cremino's... are Cremino's. So far they all look so similar in color.
I think this would be helpful to everyone, but I don't know how to get everyone on board with the distictions either.
Does anyone else have any idea's how to implement this distiction so it's not confusing any longer?
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: ]
#785582
05/28/09 04:38 PM
05/28/09 04:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,520 St. Charles, Missouri
Suggiegramma
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
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Posts: 1,520
St. Charles, Missouri
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I would call your baby a Platinum Mosaic since it has the Platinum coloring with a stripe down it's back. From what I've been told, a White Mosaic has no defined stripe down the back. I have 2 Platinum Mosaics and a White Mosaic. One PM is from Lynsie and the other PM and WM are from Priscilla.
Virginia
Suggies Sachi,Miuccia,Mignon,Cosette,Blaise,Florianna,Fabio, Abbi,Fletcher,Eshton,Hansel,Gretel,Sahara,Parker,SugarBear, Emily,Ariana,Symphony,Mozart,Smeegle,Cocoa,Hershey,Tippy, Hollister,Anastasia,Buffy,Tawny,Stormy,Aurora,Chance,Karma, Kristoff,Ruby.
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: ]
#785584
05/28/09 04:40 PM
05/28/09 04:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 282 In
heartlandglider
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Glider Explorer
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Posts: 282
In
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THis is quite confusing Not sure what the answer is. I have 3 creminos here and they are not all the same color. One from Stacie is very light with a little shading on her tail. Some of the other shading she had has disappeared as she has gotten older. I have a cremino here from FFR. He is not the same color cremino as the one from Stacie or as Bella, the little cremino I had born here. Bella keeps getting more taupe as she gets older. The only thing these 3 have as far as looks in common is the red eyes. WHen I got Promise from Stacie, I was told she was a dilute cremino. I will let someone else figure out what color cremino they will call Topo and Bella From what I am hearing/being told on the platinum gene, it is just as confusing.
Dianne Kieffer Heartland Gliders
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: ]
#785585
05/28/09 04:42 PM
05/28/09 04:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228 USA
IowaMisty
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OP
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Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. Babydevilsangel, I do think there is some confusion & that's why I was posing these questions & just trying to make sure I'm even understanding correctly. With the mosaics, i don't think we could just label "platinum mosaics" as "white mosaics" & have it all cleared up. Aren't there white mosaics that are NOT "platinum"? Am I right in thinking a "white moasaic" is any mosaic with more white on the body than grey/black/normal? And in the case of my guy, we're calling him a "platinum white mosaic", which I think we're all agreeing means he's a white mosaic with some platinum coloration (but not platinum genetics). I don't know a lot about the creminos, but I think Tyler could probably speak more on that - I think there are some breeders trying to breed platinum into cremino & thought they were starting to see some creminos that had a little bit of a silvery/platinum coloration to them. I could be wrong on that though. Whitney, you better think my boy is gorgeous...lol. We paid a lot of money for that little stud. Haha. He was so gorgeous, we had to find him TWO girls to mate with. I'm hoping to get some more pictures online soon of him. Tyler, thanks for clarifying a bit. I know I was kind of asking people about this a little at Judie's event. I know the true platinums can be pretty pricey. So can the white mosaics. I'm still not 100% sure how the whole pricing structure works yet, but I guess we'll kind of figure that out when we have some joeys. Thanks, Misty
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: Suggiegramma]
#785587
05/28/09 04:48 PM
05/28/09 04:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228 USA
IowaMisty
OP
Glider Guardian
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OP
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Posts: 1,228
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Woah, ok several of you replied as I was typing. I would call your baby a Platinum Mosaic since it has the Platinum coloring with a stripe down it's back. From what I've been told, a White Mosaic has no defined stripe down the back. I have 2 Platinum Mosaics and a White Mosaic. One PM is from Lynsie and the other PM and WM are from Priscilla. Can anyone else verify, is this true that the definition of a white mosaic is a mosaic glider with no defined stripe? Virginia, would you mind posting or linking to a few pictures that show the difference between a "platinum mosaic" and a "white mosaic"? In the context of your platinum mosaics, are you also using platinum in the sense of the mosaic coloring rather than "TRUE platinum" as Tyler called it (like Haley)? Thanks, Misty
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: IowaMisty]
#785596
05/28/09 05:04 PM
05/28/09 05:04 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402 Michigan
gliderma
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis
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Michigan
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Just when I thought I was making sense of the colors, theres new confusion! LOL I wish there could be a standard like there is for dogs and gliders would be held by that standard. Like is it white mosaic, platinum mosaic or just mosaic? A black beauty is different than a standard grey, but still considered a grey. There should be guidelines met for each color so there would be no question. You can show a picture to several different people and get several different color variations based on their personal ideals. I have leu's, WF, WFB's and a mosaic that will all be breeding over the next year (no not all together!) and I would really like to be sure of what to call whatever comes up. Please, someone write down the acceptable colors with an exact description and pictures for everyone to agree on, sort of a "Dummies guide to glider colors",so that the rest of us "dummies" can get it! Yes I am trying to be aliitle funny, but really & truly want to learn!
Lynn Martel 616-272-4374 989-400-5686
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: IowaMisty]
#785598
05/28/09 05:06 PM
05/28/09 05:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,823 Wichita Falls, Texas
DirtyPaws
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Glider Slave
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Posts: 1,823
Wichita Falls, Texas
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It is all VERY confusing. But I think because these colors are all really new (compared to like dog breeds.) The names have to be given when the colors first are seen, (you have to call them something!) but then different variations of even that color come up and then, like mentioned above, gliders change colors as they mature. Since they mate and birth in such a short time span, before you know it, there's a color explosion, and you really have to rethink all the color names. I personally think if the glider does not have platinum lineage it should not have the word platinum in it's description. But hey, I don't know beans about farts! Seems like silver, like suggested would be a better option for those gliders. Or at least say platinum COLORED glider when it's not actually from platinum lines. Problem is, how are you ever going to get all the breeders to agree on what to call these colored gliders?! Whatcha naming that million dollar stud muffin?
~~~ Crystal ~~~
Dot Dot Woobie Isabella Beetlejuice
Blitzy&Ella ~ Twinkie&Tiramisu ~ Dolly&Doobie
Taaska & Sadie ~ Teddy Bear Doodle & Sasha
Tiki, MoJo, Ruckus, Napoleon
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: DirtyPaws]
#785605
05/28/09 05:12 PM
05/28/09 05:12 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,027 Iowa
Lindsay
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,027
Iowa
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Whatcha naming that million dollar stud muffin? I would be interested in knowing that as well. Lindsay
Lindsay
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: IowaMisty]
#785609
05/28/09 05:18 PM
05/28/09 05:18 PM
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Babydevilsangel
Unregistered
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Babydevilsangel
Unregistered
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All I'm saying is that it would probably cause less confusion if a color term such as "silver mosaic" or "silver cremino" were being used rather than another completely different genetic name being used to describe the color. It would be just as confusing if someone were to call their mosaic a "Classic gray Mosaic." It would make me wonder if it's a classic gray from mosaic lines or is it actually mosaic? Or what if someone called their Albino, a "Leucistic Albino"? Tyler, I understand there may be a definite difference in look, but what if I had a Platinum baby from platinum lines come along that has reddish hues, and then in turn, call it a Cremino Platinum? lol THAT would be confusing!! Or how about a true to life example. When Mastika came oop, her coloring looked like she was Mosaic, with her stripe broken in 2 places and completely white hands, when it is literally impossible for her to be Mosaic. Should I be calling her a "Mosaic Platinum"?? Or would that be confusing. ??? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0XfgH_ACHdY/SOPh_YUulAI/AAAAAAAACbs/3yNTp-njT90/s1600-h/100_3787.jpgI'm only attempting to make a point. I understand the differences. I am simply saying that it becomes confusing to people in the community who haven't had as much exposure to the differences in colors, and would make sense that it would be a lot less confusing if a specific gene-type wasn't being used as a descriptive term for another color. Misty, I don't have any mosaics, so I can't answer your question but I think that is the difference.
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: Lindsay]
#785619
05/28/09 05:29 PM
05/28/09 05:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228 USA
IowaMisty
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OP
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We named him Squall. I like the idea of maybe calling them "silver white mosaics" or MAYBE "silver mosaics" if there would be no difference between the two.....but yeah, there would have to be some type of agreement in the glider community about what the color means & I have no idea how to start a movement like that. So let's keep this going & see what other people have to say. I'm hoping to at some point collect pictures & get a good color info page on my website, but I'm not at that point yet. Priscilla has some of them posted on her site: http://www.thepetglider.com/index/sugar-glider-colors/sugar-glider-colors.htmlShe has a picture of "platinum mosaics", but not a picture of "white mosaics" & I'm not sure if those "platinum mosaics" are also considered to be "platinum white mosaics". So I think some of the things we're pondering & needing to clarify after what we've been learning today are: - Is there a difference between a "platinum mosaic" and a "white mosaic"? - Are all "platinum mosaics" also "white mosaics"? - Are all "white mosaics" also "platinum mosaics"? - At what point is a mosaic considered to be a "white mosaic" What we've learned so far: The word "platinum" is most definitely being used in two different ways to describe color variations. To some it's confusing. To others it's pretty common knowledge that it's referring to two different things. Oh....& I got me a beautiful baby! Haha. Misty
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: ]
#785621
05/28/09 05:29 PM
05/28/09 05:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832 Big Sandy TN
Sherri
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
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This is why I dont breed, talk about confusing! I also dont think platinum should be used in a glider unless it has platinum in its lineage. But then again I'm not a breeder so what do I know, other than there are some really gorgeous gliders out there with some funky colored names.
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: Sherri]
#785627
05/28/09 05:42 PM
05/28/09 05:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843 Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
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I see how this could be confusing to someone just starting in color breeding, but it is pretty common knowlege what a platinum mosaic is. If platinum is followed by the word mosaic then you know it is not a "TRUE platinum". When a mosaic, be it platinum mosiac or otherwise, has true platinum in it's lineage the breeder will refer to it as a "platinum het" or "from platinum lines". Since their is not really a "het" for plat. mosaic that we know of or have pinned down it should not be that confusing of you know what you are doing. Since true platinums are so rare and I have never actually seen one for sale, I don't really see it being that much of an issue...but I do understand where you all are coming from.
Sugaree Gliders Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: SugareeErin]
#785643
05/28/09 06:24 PM
05/28/09 06:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 928 Poynette, WI
sketchyglider
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 928
Poynette, WI
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I think to differenciate between them "true platinums" should be labeled "true platinums" but thats what makes sense to me and possibly to call the ones from platinum lines platinum hets
Last edited by sketchyglider; 05/28/09 06:27 PM.
Jessee slave to: Ender & Valentine and 1 non-fuzzy kid Carleigh I am SOOOOOO happy to finally be able to have my gliders back home with me! I have missed my babies soo much <3
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: sketchyglider]
#785654
05/28/09 07:02 PM
05/28/09 07:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,520 St. Charles, Missouri
Suggiegramma
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,520
St. Charles, Missouri
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This is my Platinum Mosaic: http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/Chic1956/DSC01814-1.jpgThis is my White Mosaic: http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/Chic1956/DSC02153-1.jpgNotice no defined stripe, platinum coloring and black spotted ears on Anastasia, Florianna has a defined stripe. I agree with Erin, if it has Mosaic behind the name, it's not a true platinum.
Virginia
Suggies Sachi,Miuccia,Mignon,Cosette,Blaise,Florianna,Fabio, Abbi,Fletcher,Eshton,Hansel,Gretel,Sahara,Parker,SugarBear, Emily,Ariana,Symphony,Mozart,Smeegle,Cocoa,Hershey,Tippy, Hollister,Anastasia,Buffy,Tawny,Stormy,Aurora,Chance,Karma, Kristoff,Ruby.
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: sketchyglider]
#785661
05/28/09 07:15 PM
05/28/09 07:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363 Ok
Sheila
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis
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Ok
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I will have to post to this later. I have to go tonight and will be home around ten. I will say that Haley, being the first platinum kept that name. There was only one word to describe her color. Her daughter Comet is a dilute platinum. I have been discussing this with other breeders because of all this confusion. I think anything that is not a platinum should be called "Platinum colored". So it could be a platinum colored mosaic, a platinum colored blonde, etc. If people don't like that, then the colors should be called silver as Bec suggested. No one has claimed the name silver and it would be a good name for it. Creminos as well as albinos have a color underneath their light color. They could be red, brown, gray, etc. Creminos should come in all colors because they have a gene that can factor the amount of color in them. Some creminos would have more white, some more brown, some more gray, and some even more lavendar even. Sometimes that lavendar can look like a platinum. So it appears to us that there can be t+albinos of the same species with differing appearences. I wish that when the first platinum mosaic had come about that they had been called platinum colored, silver, or silver colored. I think many newbys into the colored market are very confused by this.
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: Sheila]
#785758
05/28/09 10:35 PM
05/28/09 10:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228 USA
IowaMisty
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OP
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Thanks Virginia for sharing those pics. The 1st girl does have some lighter coloring, so I guess if we were to use the new terminology, we would call her a "silver mosaic" or a "platinum-colored mosaic". Is the 2nd one actually a "platinum white mosaic"?....meaning with the new terminology we'd call her a "silver white mosaic" or a "platinum-colored white mosaic"? She's gorgeous, btw...looks a lot like my male but I think my male is currentiy more creamy-colored. I'm wondernig if he's going to turn more white though. So I'm still wondering, are there white mosaics that are not platinum-colored/silver white mosaics? If so, someone post a pic please! I'd love to see some good distinctions, so we can better label what we're talking about.
Sheila, I was hoping you'd stumble upon this topic! I look forward to the rest of your input on this. (Ok and seriously when you said "lavender", I almost busted a gut imagining a purple glider..lol!) The terminology is definitely confusing to us color-newbies...mostly because we're using the same word to describe two different things. And what is a dilute platinum?
Misty
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: IowaMisty]
#785779
05/28/09 11:15 PM
05/28/09 11:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843 Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin
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Glider Addict
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Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
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Some white mosaics are all white They can have varying degrees of silver, from a few hairs to a grey back, but the missing stripe/alot of white makes it a white mo. I don't have any pics, but there is one in the classifieds.
Last edited by SugareeErin; 05/28/09 11:17 PM. Reason: added
Sugaree Gliders Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: SugareeErin]
#785783
05/28/09 11:22 PM
05/28/09 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,520 St. Charles, Missouri
Suggiegramma
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
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Posts: 1,520
St. Charles, Missouri
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I guess the first picture would be called a platinum colored mosaic and the second picture would be a white mosaic.
Virginia
Suggies Sachi,Miuccia,Mignon,Cosette,Blaise,Florianna,Fabio, Abbi,Fletcher,Eshton,Hansel,Gretel,Sahara,Parker,SugarBear, Emily,Ariana,Symphony,Mozart,Smeegle,Cocoa,Hershey,Tippy, Hollister,Anastasia,Buffy,Tawny,Stormy,Aurora,Chance,Karma, Kristoff,Ruby.
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: IowaMisty]
#785797
05/28/09 11:44 PM
05/28/09 11:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,520 St. Charles, Missouri
Suggiegramma
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,520
St. Charles, Missouri
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Yours appears to have a stripe. Maybe the picture is bad.
Virginia
Suggies Sachi,Miuccia,Mignon,Cosette,Blaise,Florianna,Fabio, Abbi,Fletcher,Eshton,Hansel,Gretel,Sahara,Parker,SugarBear, Emily,Ariana,Symphony,Mozart,Smeegle,Cocoa,Hershey,Tippy, Hollister,Anastasia,Buffy,Tawny,Stormy,Aurora,Chance,Karma, Kristoff,Ruby.
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: Suggiegramma]
#785818
05/29/09 12:34 AM
05/29/09 12:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645 Ohio
Guerita135
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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I agree, like the idea of calling mosaics "silver" instead of "platinum".
~Nicole~ Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy!
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Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: IowaMisty]
#785838
05/29/09 03:02 AM
05/29/09 03:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173 Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
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The White Platinum Mosaic and Platinum Mosaic have been around a very Long Time and I see no need to change the names of this varriation.
So... with that in mimd... the so called Platinum is a newbie and should be called Silver or just Platinum.
I also beleive the Platinum color is a dilute gene which comes from the WF Blonde.
Last edited by Judie; 05/29/09 03:15 AM.
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