She has a picture of "platinum mosaics", but not a picture of "white mosaics" & I'm not sure if those "platinum mosaics" are also considered to be "platinum white mosaics".
So I think some of the things we're pondering & needing to clarify after what we've been learning today are: - Is there a difference between a "platinum mosaic" and a "white mosaic"? Yes - Are all "platinum mosaics" also "white mosaics"? No - Are all "white mosaics" also "platinum mosaics"? No - At what point is a mosaic considered to be a "white mosaic" When it has very little grey to no grey at all- most look to be dusted with grey without the traditional pattern coloring
I don't see how platinum and white mosaic can go together. The platinum is describing how much and how light the grey is on a mosaic. White mo's have very little to no grey at all- what grey they have is a light dusting.
Ñancy ~Always on my mind & in my Jack, Sally & Serenity~
This is what I think, mosaics should be called mosaics, plan and simple. If you want to decisribe it's coloring then describe it, don't label it. It's like calling a WF with a broke stripe a "Broken Stripe WF". It's just silly.
A mosaic is a mosaic and a platinum is a platinum.
When I am asked to describe a mosaics coloring that's a little different than putting a name to them. I call a few of my mosaics powdered. Those are the ones that when they are a joey they are dark like a normal glider with white markings but as they mature it gets lighter almost like they are covered in baby powder now, kinda silver color.
There are ones that I will say have platinum coloring. These would be the ones that have a very light grey backside, like the coloring of Haley.
Then there are the white mosaics with are primarily white with just tiny patches of grey if any grey at all.
There are also people who call thier gliders champagne mosaics.
No matter what 'kind' of mosaic you have they can produce any of the 'kinds' of mosaics. Mosaic is a gene; white, platinum, powedered, champagne, etc are just descriptions.
I like Lynsie's descriptions. To me a white mosaic is just that mostly white. If the glider has more grey or silver coloring then that would be a platinum/powdered mosaic. Here is my white mosaic.
Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
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#786149 05/29/0909:02 PM05/29/0909:02 PM
Here also in a picture of my Ringtail Mosaic female from Lynsie. She really powdered out as Lynsie would say. She is gorgeous! I also think joeys are in pouch!
JanetGlider
PH: 217-249-3243
Email: janetbusick@gmail.com
Website: janetgliders.weebly.com
Love all of my special pets: Sugar Gliders, Dogs, & Sun Conure Parrot
Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
[Re: JanetGlider]
#786218 05/29/0911:50 PM05/29/0911:50 PM
This is Picasso and his Friend Yoda. Picasso is a White Platinum Mosaic and Yoda is a Leucistic. Their little girl is a Leucistic but may be a mosaic unmder the white. Only breeding her will I know if she is a double het.
I love the idea of calling mosaics "silver" instead of "platinum".
As a newbie in the colors myself, the first time I seen a mosaic listed as a plat mosaic I thought WOW a Plat Mosaic thinking it had plat in the lineage. As I investigated and researched I learned that it was only a description-not plat at all.
I think if it does not have plat in the lineage it should not be used in the name at all. It was confusing for me and as I am reading on here apparently it was for many people as well.
I agree with all those who would like to vote for calling a mosaic (with light gray or gray coloring) Silver.
Sheila, Misty, Bec, Nicole, crystal and sorry if I missed anyone
I too will be looking forward to more on Sheilas in put on this
Last edited by NGS; 05/30/0911:13 AM.
Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
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#786416 05/30/0903:06 PM05/30/0903:06 PM
Wow, I haven't been online since Thursday & I see you guys have continued the thread!
Thanks to those of you who shared your pictures & comments.
I do think saying "platinum colored" or "silver colored" when describing the coloration of a mosaic would help make it less confusing, especially for the newbies. I'm even hearing some differing opinions amongst those who aren't newbies. I guess I don't know how to make that catch on though
Sheila, where did you go? Any other comments about this?
I wrote this long post and accidently deleted. I hate when that happens.
The platinums have been around for almost 5 years. Haley is getting ready to have her birthday. There is more platinum color on her than a platinum Mo because a platinum mo can have a platinum body and an all white or ring tail. A platinum has all the markings of a sugar glider, just a platinum color. If a platinum has a break in stripe it is because it is a WFB. Id does not have the white hands and feet that many mosaics have. A platinum is a recessive gene, a mosaic is a dominate.
Since there are so few platinums and so many platinum mo's Rebecca has suggest that we might call the platinum, "Pearls" That way there won't be so much changing in the database. Nancy and Lynsie, both of your post are correct. It doesn't matter if it is white mo, a platinum mo, a ringtail mo, because the offspring of it can be totally different. I have mosaics that are what you call a platinum mosaic, but never one that produces white. I just call mine mosaics. I have never had a white mosaic born here.
If we're going to be synonymous with established "Breeds" or "colors" in other animals, birds, snakes, what have you.... then unfortunately, we've got it backwards.
Cockatiels:
With Platinum Cockatiels some grey family pigments are still produced but in a lesser degree than the normal grey bird. They do contain melanin but it is a greatly reduced amount of pigmentthat is present. The resultant bird therefore has the appearance of half way between the normal grey with full compliment of melanin and the lutino which has no melanin. The Platinum gene allows the grey pigments to be produced but the amount deposited is much less.
This would be equivalent to our TRUE Platinum sugar gliders.
The Pearl Cockatiels gene does not have any visual affect on the color pigments in the bird but instead it affects the distribution of the colors that are already present. There appear to be several different variations to the pearl gene. Some pearl patterns are very large and scalloped while others are just thin lines evident around the edges of the feather. Others have very sharp distinct edges between the dark and light colors whilst others seem to almost fade into each other.
This would be equivalent to our Mosaic sugar gliders.
I'm the one that suggested to name this particular breed(our True Platinums), a Pearl instead... just so we don't have so much confusion going on in regards to colors. But it really should be Platinum... and our lighter colored mosaics really should be described differently than using the word 'Platinum', which should be a breed, rather than a color describer. In cockatiels, they are describing the Pearls that have lighter markings as 'pale smoky gray' or 'soft silvery beige' because Platinum is reserved as a color that is uniform and solid... it is a particular kind of breed.
Now. With that said, we certainly don't have to follow along with established genetics. But, I think it would make more sense if we DID.
What do you guys think?
Re: "Platinum" Can Mean 2 Different Things?
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#786853 05/31/0903:45 PM05/31/0903:45 PM
I agree that the community as a whole, newbies and veterans tend to see a "Platinum" as being a distinguished genetic coloration.
I also understand describing a mosaic as platinum or white because there are so many variations of the mosaics. When trying to place joeys, it does help describe what they look like.
However, if the community is up to agree on new terminology, I don't think the Platinums should be changed because it has been defined as such for quite some time. It is already an understood genetic term just like Leucistic, or WF.
It appears the confusion is when the term platinum is used simply to describe the furs color in a mosaic, rather than a genetic color. I like the idea of calling them "silver mosaics" to avoid genetic confusion. Quite frankly, that is the color of a platinum.
Here is my "true platinum" Nicky:
so maybe my feelings on the terminology are a bit biased; but it doesn't make sense to me to change the name of the platinum gliders.
Shelly
Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.
Thanks everyone for sharing. It's good to hear about how the color names are being used in other types of animals too. I don't think I'd push to change the name of the true platinums. I'm more leaning toward the side of wanting the word "platinum" to be changed when describing the coloration of the mosaics. And I think I'm more leaning toward the word "silver" than anything else. We'd have to get a lot of people on board with making the change though. How do we go about doing that? I think if the larger breeders get on board with it, the smaller breeders will follow along. But that means getting the larger breeders into some type of agreement.
Bec, I think the breeders that are *on the forums* may be willing to call them silver instead of plat, however, we need to remember, although GC and other boards have many registered members, there are far more folks out there that breed and buy gliders that either one, dont care to be a part of glider boards, or two, dont know anything about glider forums. So how would you go about getting them to change their ways of describing them?
I agree with Peggy. It would be too hard to change other people's way of thinking. I think most people know the difference between a Platinum and a Platinum Mosaic. If they don't, they can ask.
I think I agree with NGS. I know we can't necessarily reach everyone, but if the vast majority of us started calling them "silver mosaics" or "silver white mosaics" or "silver-colored mosaics", I think it would reach most people & confuse less of us color newbies. I do think of "silver" as being more of a descriptive term for the color rather than a genetic thing. I would imagine that most of the people who are purchasing expensive mosaics & breeding them are probably members of at least one of the popular forums (or yahoo or google groups) because that's the best place to advertise the more expensive joeys. So I think we could reach a lot of people at least. Sure there may still end up being a few who don't get the memo & still call them "platinum mosaics" for a while, but we can point them to this thread.
That being said, we'd have to get the larger breeders to come to an agreement about changing the terminology for the silver-colored mosaics.
Tyler, have you mentioned this thread to Priscilla at all? Does she have an opinion on it? Judie, Sheila, Peggy, etc - would you all be on board with changing the name?
Also, I'm thinking if in regards to mosaics, "platinum" is just being used to describe color, it's not a huge deal if someone keeps using that word. Y'all are right in that people should be able to look through the lineage & realize there's no platinum in their genes (in most cases) & hopefully will understand that it's not a true platinum glider. But I think if we can get a majority of people to agree to change the descriptive word to silver (or whatever), then the purpose would be to create less confusion. I think more people would understand "silver" as a descriptive word. And maybe we'd start wording it in ways that it's a no-brainer. Like I think I would call mine a "white mosaic with silver markings" or a "white & silver mosaic". To me there's no way to confuse that with another genetic color variation (like platinum).
This term Platinum started with Mike Sandridge and Shadow. Many people wanted one like Shadow for years and none surfaced, and then there suddenly, a couple years later an explosion of that color. I think many people including myself are still confused about the platinums. Another year of breeding and it will all be figured out. In the meantime I would like to call them platinums, but honestly, it is difficult because some of my platty's look like Champagne's. I never wanted to call them that because I associate the Champagne gene with the older Sterile line that Priscilla obtained from another breeder. Some people thing of champagne as a light silver - like the color of the drink, or a more cocoa dirty brown like the ones Priscilla had. They are actually one of my favorite colors. Even though one my platinums is a more strawberry blonde they will vary in color. What made Haley so pretty was the fact that she carried a Leu gene and she was wfb. When they don't carry the WFB, they are more diluted - not as light, but still platinums because they aren't normals and they do carry the gene. I think the only way to resolve it is to have a sticky on each site explaining the difference. I don't think anyone should have to go through their website and change all the lineages. People don't realize how much time that takes. I have never had a platinum mosaic that I have sold. I think I have had one born here, but I have never bred her. I had another one born here, and only bred her once, but have not sold her offspring. Priscilla and Stacie had bred the majority of them and they would most likely be the ones deciding what to do because they would have the most correction to make with lineages. If it were up to me, I would say have each breeder that breeds for them have a statement on their website as well as a sticky. It might be a good idea to have the mods open a new color catagory.
Shadow was sold to Sandridge and came from Helen and Priscilla. He was considered a Platinum Mosaic. As far as I know.... he never reproduced and was sold by Mike a few years later, again as a breeder and he did not reproduce and so was sold again.
I myself do not know anyone with an offspring that came from Shadow the Platinum Mosaic.
The explosion of Platinum Mosaics came about with breeding the WF Blonde along with Leucistic into the Mosaic Lines.
Not sure what ya need help on Judy. The platinum mosaics come about pretty randomly. Some of the have leu in the line, some have WF, and others have neither. It is very random.
Here is why i think it is okay to call them platinum mosaics: Platinum Mosaic is describing the coloring on the glider that is not white. I have called some BB mosaics as they are very dark with white. White mosaics are obviously more white Champagne mosaics are very champagne colored
All you're doing is saying "I have a mosaic/white varaition with platinum/BB/Red/Champagne/Whatever kind of markings on it."
If you look at a Platinum ring it appears to be Silver. Thus the Platinum Mosaic.
Champagne is a soft golden color. It is not tan, nor beige and not cream. Thus the Champagne Mosaic.
These two colors, Platinmum and Champagne can appear in other varriations as well.
Good Example: A Cremino x to a WF Blomde can produce a very Beautiful White Faced Champagne/Cremino Het The Champagne color then can be passed onto some of the offspring.
When I was referring to an explosion I was not referring to the glider from Mike. I was referring to platinum mosaics in general which came from Priscilla. She started producing gliders of that color with the gliders she had.