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Producing Sterile Lines #975278
07/14/10 06:36 PM
07/14/10 06:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline OP
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
I just wanted to send out a friendly reminder to breeders in the glider community to please double check your mosaics' lineages to ensure that they really are from non-sterile lines.

Just within the last couple weeks I've seen about 10 joeys listed as being from "non-sterile" lines, when, in fact, they are not! And in every single case the breeders were completely unaware of their gliders being from sterile lines! shock

9 times out of 10 those gliders are from Priscilla and in some cases they are older gliders from Stacie Jolley.

Stacie used to have her babies from Goliath(a sterile-line male mosaic who has proven to not be sterile) as "non-sterile". However, when one of her customers got flack because of it and was having a hard time selling her joey as "non-sterile", then both Stacie and Priscilla were contacted and it was decided to call the "proven" sterile lines "Producing Sterile Lines" rather then "non-sterile". So, people who got Stacie's babies from Goliath BEFORE the change are often unaware that their babies are from a sterile line.

It was done to prevent confusion so that customers were informed.

Lately I've seen sterile-line mosaics paired with cremino lines, platinum lines, albino lines, leu lines, and even TRUELLY non-sterile lines! cry

So, please, everyone double-check the lineages on your babies and if you're not sure if they're from sterile lines, then feel free to post their lineages here and we can figure it out!

Also, be sure to check the FULL lineage ALLLLL the way back, not just the first couple generations.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Guerita135] #975283
07/14/10 06:46 PM
07/14/10 06:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
I think not everyone knows what the "sterile lines" are. I know I don't.

If my breeder said it was "non-sterile lines" - I'd have to believe them!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: ValkyrieMome] #975299
07/14/10 07:30 PM
07/14/10 07:30 PM

J
JamieInWA
Unregistered
JamieInWA
Unregistered
J



Yeah, I wish we could have them listed somewhere. Aside from asking someone with more experience than me, I wouldn't know how to find out.

Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: ] #975304
07/14/10 07:44 PM
07/14/10 07:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
T
tjlong Offline
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tjlong  Offline
Glider Slave
T

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
There was a thread on 5/08/10 started by NGS about Mosaic lines. I don't know how to copy the thread link. Sorry. Jamie, you could do it!

Guerita135 gave a wealth of information on that thread! It is definitely worth a read. smile

Last edited by tjlong; 07/14/10 07:48 PM.

Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project




Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: tjlong] #975307
07/14/10 07:46 PM
07/14/10 07:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian
Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
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WI
Also a reminder to people to check your glider's lineage even if it's FROM mosaic lines but is not itself a mosaic. If you're planning on breeding that is. smile


Allie
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: tjlong] #975308
07/14/10 07:48 PM
07/14/10 07:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian
Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
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Allie
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily] #975310
07/14/10 07:49 PM
07/14/10 07:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
T
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave
tjlong  Offline
Glider Slave
T

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
thumb


Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project




Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily] #975311
07/14/10 07:49 PM
07/14/10 07:49 PM

J
JamieInWA
Unregistered
JamieInWA
Unregistered
J



Thanks. I was just going to post that.

smile

Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: ] #975315
07/14/10 08:17 PM
07/14/10 08:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 638
Mohave, AZ
Kayla Offline
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Kayla  Offline
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Posts: 638
Mohave, AZ
What are some of the names of the gliders from the sterile line?


Gizmo & Trinket
Remy, Bolt & Luna
Violet, Lavender & Indigo
Amaretto & Bailey
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo: :plat: :leu:
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Kayla] #975320
07/14/10 08:26 PM
07/14/10 08:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
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Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
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Posts: 1,269
WI
There are a few- you can find a list of names in the thread I posted. This is a quote from Tyler in that thread. I hope it helps:

Originally Posted By: gliderboy4life
Tilly is a sterile line, champ is not sterile. Tilly was paired with another male, a WF named casino and produced sterility.

There are many different sterile mosaic lines, there is Sally, Ms. Leu, Lollie, Tilly, Helena, Heidi, Bianca and maybe a few others.

Priscilla took on only about 8 mosaics when she got them from Helen. It was believed that to produce mosaics there were hets. So that is how the sterility came about from continuous inbreeding.

Champ most likely came from the mosaic line, several joeys from the original mosaics appeared champagne.

I know Mother white was wild caught. She didn't live long. I think when she came in, a few others did-some of which might have been the ones listed above....not sure though. Odds are they are all related. What are the odds of catching such a different color in the wild and them not being related.

Anyways, we have snow white who is producing, this is most likely b/c it hadn't been inbred to the point of sterility.

A majority of mikes stuff came from helens line, so again related to the other mosaics.

There is NO record of any of the breedings done before priscilla got them. The records were according to helen eaten by her praire dogs. I doubt she kept records of the breedings anyways as it was not common or known to do so many years ago.

So there is my knowledge based on the 2 years working at TPG.

Take it or leave it,... but thats what i know!!!

Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 07/14/10 08:30 PM. Reason: add info

Allie
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily] #975327
07/14/10 08:32 PM
07/14/10 08:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 638
Mohave, AZ
Kayla Offline
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Kayla  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 638
Mohave, AZ
I read the post above last night, and it got kind of confusing after i read a post on leus and I am already horrible at names.. Here is the lineage of a boy I might be getting, I wrote out his whole family tree today so i could see everything without having to click around alot. Although theres probably an easier way to do it lol

http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/pedigree.php?pedid=5653


Gizmo & Trinket
Remy, Bolt & Luna
Violet, Lavender & Indigo
Amaretto & Bailey
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo: :plat: :leu:
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Kayla] #975328
07/14/10 08:39 PM
07/14/10 08:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian
Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
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WI
I don't see any sterility in your glider's lineage. thumb

Lynsie knows what she's talking about with mosaics. She'd let you know if there was sterility in the line. smile

Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 07/14/10 08:39 PM.

Allie
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Kayla] #975329
07/14/10 08:40 PM
07/14/10 08:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
That doesn't really answer it for me!

We are supposed to check the "whole lineage, not just a few generations."

Are the names Tyler listed the only Sterile lines?

So if none of these gliders "Sally, Ms. Leu, Lollie, Tilly, Helena, Heidi, Bianca" is in my glider's lineage, he isn't from sterile lines?


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: ValkyrieMome] #975330
07/14/10 08:50 PM
07/14/10 08:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian
Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
That doesn't really answer it for me!
I'm sorry- I really don't know what you're looking for then.

We are supposed to check the "whole lineage, not just a few generations."

Are the names Tyler listed the only Sterile lines?
I believe they are the known sterile lines.

So if none of these gliders "Sally, Ms. Leu, Lollie, Tilly, Helena, Heidi, Bianca" is in my glider's lineage, he isn't from sterile lines?
In theory no- he isn't from sterile lines. Unless there are others that are not known.


Allie
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily] #975331
07/14/10 08:52 PM
07/14/10 08:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 542
Luverne, Minnesota
B19 Offline
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B19  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 542
Luverne, Minnesota
Thanks for all the great info guys! It is very helpful!!


Brandi

Loving mother to:
:grey: "Ziggy" & "Teddy"
:rtmo: "Pebbles"
1 chocolate Lab: "Gracie Mae"
1 Min Pin: "Daisy Mae"
2 horses: "Scoots" & "Sisco"

Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: B19] #975340
07/14/10 09:02 PM
07/14/10 09:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 638
Mohave, AZ
Kayla Offline
Glider Lover
Kayla  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 638
Mohave, AZ
I figured she would let me know, and since i wrote out the whole thing today i didnt see any of those names... Thanks for the help!


Gizmo & Trinket
Remy, Bolt & Luna
Violet, Lavender & Indigo
Amaretto & Bailey
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo: :plat: :leu:
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Kayla] #975346
07/14/10 09:15 PM
07/14/10 09:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
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Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
I was told that Preston was from NON-sterile lines. But when Nicole and I had a conversation, it was found that because he had Kat in his lineage, he WAS from sterile lines. I was very upset when I found out, as he is only a couple generations out from sterility. The breeder did NOT tell me he was from sterile lines. So, at this point I'm not sure WHAT to do with my joeys!

Preston is producing, his dad Kale produced, and Freddy produced... this is the only link to sterile lines. It looks Kat is the only link to sterility... but there is no sterility in him, his dad, or his grandpa... help?!

Last edited by wildlifeangel; 07/14/10 09:22 PM. Reason: added info

Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: wildlifeangel] #975352
07/14/10 09:32 PM
07/14/10 09:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
But Kat is not in that list from Tyler?

So - there are others?

This is really frustrating! Why isn't there a complete list somewhere of the sterile lines!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: ValkyrieMome] #975358
07/14/10 09:41 PM
07/14/10 09:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
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Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Kat is the granddaughter of Tilly.

As was said, you have to look at the entire lineage- not just a few generations.


Allie
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: wildlifeangel] #975364
07/14/10 09:53 PM
07/14/10 09:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian
Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
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Posts: 1,269
WI
Originally Posted By: wildlifeangel
I was told that Preston was from NON-sterile lines. But when Nicole and I had a conversation, it was found that because he had Kat in his lineage, he WAS from sterile lines. I was very upset when I found out, as he is only a couple generations out from sterility. The breeder did NOT tell me he was from sterile lines. So, at this point I'm not sure WHAT to do with my joeys!

Preston is producing, his dad Kale produced, and Freddy produced... this is the only link to sterile lines. It looks Kat is the only link to sterility... but there is no sterility in him, his dad, or his grandpa... help?!


Even though they are producing you still have to make it known that the joeys are from sterile lines. You can sell them under the title of "producing sterile lines" if you choose to. Generally speaking it is thought that if a male glider from sterile lines produces there is no longer a possibility of sterility being passed on to his offspring. Sterility is thought to be an X linked trait- similar to color blindness or hemophilia in humans. This is why the females can pass it on but are generally not sterile themselves.

I'm very sorry this happened. It may be possible the breeder didn't know their gliders were from sterile lines or thought that since their male was producing, they no longer had to make buyers aware of the sterility.

Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 07/14/10 09:54 PM. Reason: oops

Allie
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily] #975369
07/14/10 09:59 PM
07/14/10 09:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
What is the opinion of breeders on producing sterile lines? (Look up PLL, those will be my joeys).

I want to know opinions on what breeders would do with this trio... because I had hoped to breed the joeys eventually...


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: wildlifeangel] #975371
07/14/10 10:01 PM
07/14/10 10:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Lynsie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Lynsie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Nadine, I have a mosaic out of that same line and Priscilla did the same thing to me. She told me she was from a non-sterile line when in fact it is a producing sterile line. So far all the males out of that line have produced but I still make sure that my buyers are aware of the joeys lineage before they decide to buy one of those joeys.

Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Lynsie] #975374
07/14/10 10:14 PM
07/14/10 10:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 841
Houston, Texas
gliderboy4life Offline
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gliderboy4life  Offline
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Posts: 841
Houston, Texas
To my knowledge those are the only sterile lines. Some popular names to look for that may be farther up in your lineage would be:

Ms. Kitty
Kit and Kat
Heather
Sierra
Juliet
Ribbon

ummm... its been so long since I've worked with the gliders. As I think of more I can add them to the list.

As for breeding gliders from "producing" sterile lines. I feel it is ok, but would not cross them back to other gliders of color. Breeding prosucing sterile gliders is a personal opinion you would have to make. I personally have seen no reason not to.


Tyler Cleckley
www.GliderBoyGliders.com
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: gliderboy4life] #975390
07/14/10 10:34 PM
07/14/10 10:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline OP
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Alden, if you post your lineage here then we could all take a look at it for you.

Some lineages are very trickey, especially if they're listed in The Pet Glider Database because if a relative doesn't have a name or is unknown then it's simply left blank, so you have to be very careful and always double-check it with a few breeders who are familiar with the original lines.

EXAMPLE: I bought a glider from sterile lines, but this is what her lineage looks like in the Pet Glider Database- http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/pedigree.php?pedid=1067

As you can see, at a glance it would seem that she's from the non-sterile mosaic line. However, if you look closely you'll see that her grandfather, Poncho, who is from Mac and Cheese, is a gray/100% Leu het and NOT a mosaic. The grandmother is the mosaic and since she had no name then she wasn't listed.

However, here's what the lineage looks like from the breeder: http://justforfuzzies.com/pedigrees/Nadine_pedi.html

As you can see, she's actually from sterile lines.

So, if you are at all unsure about a lineage or see lots of blanks then do not hesitate to get a second, or third, or FORTH opinion!

Thanks for that list Tyler! I'm not good with names and can never remember all the sterile-line gliders.

KAYLA- your boy is from a non-sterile line. wink


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Guerita135] #975395
07/14/10 10:39 PM
07/14/10 10:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Lynsie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Lynsie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Yep Kayla, both Envy & Dante have absolutely NO sterility in thier lines.

Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Guerita135] #975396
07/14/10 10:41 PM
07/14/10 10:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline OP
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline OP
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Since the sterility came about as a result of inbreeding, then it could be something recessive and if a joey from sterile lines(whether they are producing or not) were to be bred with another glider that has the same recessive gene then it could, once again, bring out the sterility.

So if someone is going to breed a glider from sterile lines then it must be done carefully, which is why it's important to be informed. Whether a sterile-line glider is producing or not, breeders need to tell their customers that those joeys are originally from sterile lines.

It sad enough seeing gorgeous little mosaics being born that are sterile. I would hate to start seeing sterile creminos, leus, platinums, etc... cry


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Guerita135] #975454
07/15/10 12:52 AM
07/15/10 12:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
To clarify, I indicated Kat because she was the one, grandchild of Tilly. Nicole told me to look for Kat because she was visible in the first glance of Preston's pedigree.

His mom was from Leu lines and he has a small % het, so originally I was hoping to be able to breed his joeys to the joeys from the trio I am getting next month... but that won't be happening now!

How should that effect price? For an identical glider that is from sterile lines vs one from non-sterile lines? I just want to have competitive prices and still be fair because they can't breed to other colored lines...

also, does anyone know of a contract clause that you can forbid them from breeding the joeys TO other colors?


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: wildlifeangel] #975746
07/15/10 03:16 PM
07/15/10 03:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline OP
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline OP
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
I seriously need to stop looking at gliders' lineages. It's not good for my health. :\

Today I was glancing around at some more mosaic joeys' lines that are in the classifieds and saw one that is a sterile-line mo from leu lines paired with a leu het. cry

Personally, I don't agree with breeding the sterile lines, but if you ARE going to breed them, please be very careful when choosing a mate and, as Tyler has already said, do NOT cross them with other colored lines!

Speaking of which...Lynsie, I noticed that you have a sterile-line mosaic paired with a leucistic. frown Did you realize that Doodle is from a sterile mosaic line? His grandma is Kat.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Guerita135] #975768
07/15/10 04:40 PM
07/15/10 04:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Lynsie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Lynsie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Nicole, that is the glider I was referring to. Doodle was sold to KDR, then to me and we were told that she was Non sterile when in fact she was from a producing sterile line. KDR already had her paired with a leu, I had them together for awhile here before I was made aware of her lineage and I did not feel like splitting them up, nor was I willing to neuter a pair that I just paid $5000 for. All the males from this line, including Doodles joeys have been able to produce. I do make sure that all buyers are aware of this lineage before they purchase one of thier joeys. So far they have only had 7 joeys.

Re: Producing Sterile Lines [Re: Lynsie] #976005
07/15/10 11:39 PM
07/15/10 11:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Nicole- poncho's mate is unknown but she's known to be a mosaic from sterile lines? With so many unknown breeders/owners in that family tree, how is one to know what is what with that line?


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


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