GliderCENTRAL

The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries

Posted By: Terry

The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/10/14 05:43 PM

LOL, well this isn't really their diary. I decided to track the behavior in one thread, as I've mentioned some here and there on the board. Placing it here will help with keeping it more together and easier for content to be noticed with possibly some fresh ideas of what's going on.

First, how I wish I could more accurately remember when the change first started to occur, but sadly I didn't make note and my judgment of time is lacking.

It was after we moved across country, and after they moved into their brand new HQ Large Sturdy cage, the largest they've ever had, I just can't remember how long after.

I will give a brief history for those who would not know or remember my glider's story. I'll add photos for entertainment purposes.

Here's their story:

The girls, were around a year old when I homed them, say hello to the girls, Lulu and Skadoosh.

Soon after moving in to our home.

They always got along, they never fought, maybe a little fuss or two in the pouch or hammock if one stepped on the other, you know the usual. They ate together in a small diner very well, but i did offer them two at times, either way they did fine. Notice their first small diner in the back left corner in above photo.

Just because I thought this was cute!


Then came Ollie, a lone male in need of a friend or two. He was around 4 years old and moved in with me last November, not too long before Thanksgiving.

Isn't he handsome?

He went through vet checks/fecal testing and 30 day quarantine protocol, living in his own enclosure, a generous sized, home-made screen enclosure (made by former mom) in a separate room. He also had his own tent for "out of cage" play (the girls had the bathroom).

I began the intro procedures right after the 2nd fecal was determined negative.
-I swapped fleece items including blankies, pouches and whatnot, as well as toys.
-I let them have "out of cage" play in each other's play areas, with shared play toys.
Then, because I couldn't move their cages into the same room, I used two single-layered bonding pouches and placed the girls in one, and Ollie in the other, wore them together a few times prior to formal introductions.

Intros went well the second attempt on the same day as the first (a totally different story). They were together by Christmas!

Playtime with travel wheel in bathroom.

They lived as a trio, Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh, very well in the Madagascar cage (in our bedroom). I had discontinued using diners at that time and began various different feeding stations at various locations in their habitat, and there was never any trouble with them.

Then in January it was decided we needed to move from MD to AZ, it would take several days and the gliders would end up living for about 6 days in their vacation Glide-Arium, I had custom made for 2-3 night trips.

This was embellished a little more with toys and the travel cage secured their pouch during travel and contained food (at night) and water.

Although cramped quarters and being on the road, daytime traveling in RV and nighttime in hotel rooms, they made the journey just fine and didn't have issues.

We had left the Madagascar cage behind and brought Ollie's home-made screen enclosure and that was their home until I could get a new cage. I was able to purchase them a new cage approximately 2 months in new, long-term but temporary living situation. I decided on the HQ Large Sturdy, moving them in was exciting and they have seemed to enjoy their new larger accommodations.

It was sometime after, I may have mentioned a estimated time-frame in months in other posts, but really I have no recollection of exactly how long ago this started and was only kind of guestimating in those posts.

My Ollie boy seemed to get fussy/crabby lunging and chasing the girls. At first I though it was only over the food. I was perplexed because I would still see them at times all eating together with no issues, then all of the sudden Ollie would act aggressive. No injuries have occurred, the gliders are checked frequently.

One evening/night I heard the ruckus and I saw Ollie in the toy Arc, there wasn't any food inside or around the toy, but he wouldn't let the girls in or near the opening. I began to think this wasn't food aggression, maybe more of a dominance issue.

I have noticed that this behavior is not directed at a single female, sometimes it's Lulu, sometimes it's Skadoosh. Sometimes he'll let one around and sometimes none and yet, there are times they'll all three be around each other, no problem. dunno

Ollie has always been an early riser, looking and waiting for food, he eats kibble and now the girls have started eating the kibble (Happy Glider), I have gone back to leaving a few kibbles in forage toys a few times a week for this past week after skipping a day.

This was an interesting turn of events:
The morning before last, I was sitting in front of cage observing after hearing Ollie crabbing, and saw that Lulu must have been chased away, she was on bridge, Skadoosh was in the wheel on the floor, and Ollie was inside the treehouse, no food inside the treehouse. Skadoosh was in and out of the wheel as I was watching, when she got too close to the treehouse, Ollie would crab and lunge, chasing her away. After I witnessed this happen 2 or 3 times, it was I believe the third time Ollie crabbed at Skadoosh, she just went right on inside the treehouse and climbed on top of him, boy did he hush up, they groomed each other a little bit, then Skadoosh sat in the doorway of the treehouse for a few moments, all the while Lulu had jumped down to the treehouse's roof top to investigate.

Some questions:

So, what do you all think I'm dealing with?
Do you think there is a solution?
And, As long as there is no injuries to my gliders, is it ok if this goes on and I keep them together?




Posted By: Feather

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/10/14 11:27 PM

It sounds like Skadoosh is the dominant one in the cage and he is trying to intimidate the other female so he can be second in command.

As long as they are not balling up or leaving wounds on each other I would just continue to watch them.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/10/14 11:57 PM

Thanks Feather, it was quite interesting to see Skadoosh use that behavior, I had always heard Ollie, and when getting a chance to check things out, I'd see one of the girls, either Lulu or Skadoosh either running away or already climbed to at least mid-cage.

To me it always looked like he was "taking over", I had never really identified the "Leader" in the cage when it was just the pair, sometimes I thought if might be Skadoosh, but it wasn't perfectly clear.

After reading your reply stating that it sounds like Skadoosh has been the dominant one of the cage, lol, I'm remembering introduction day. At first the gliders crabbed and bickered, but the girls would run to me. I cannot remember which it was that ran and sat on my back now, because I was so elated that the second attempt went pretty well. With the girl's pouch on one side of the tub, his on the other with a neutral pouch in the middle, he simply climbed on top of them in their pouch and stayed there until they let him. I remember now, it was Skadooh at the opening of the pouch, guarding it, I thought she was protecting Lulu, who has been the pouch (at times the entire cage) protective one out of the pair.

So maybe that's what's exactly what is going on, maybe he wants to establish second on the totem pole. Is it also possible that he's trying to take over?
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/11/14 02:21 PM

Well I didn't hear any arguments in the cage last night, I either slept through them or they got along. I'll be watching closely to see how things are going.
Posted By: Feather

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/11/14 02:58 PM

Your description of his behavior reminds me of my dad, grumpy old man.

He probably wants those to women to leave him to his putterings.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/11/14 04:37 PM

Lol, he makes the floor toys his man cave.

Funny, he started off with showing off his smooth wheel moves. So typical!
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/12/14 06:07 PM

Well, I was up a lot last night and early this morning, and I didn't hear any real skirmishes going on, a little fuss here and there, I believe from inside the pouch (you know, the norm).

It may be premature to say they resolved the issue, but sounds a lot nicer the past couple of days.
Posted By: Feather

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/12/14 08:43 PM

It is possible that one or both of the girls could have been in heat and harassing the poor guy.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/12/14 10:26 PM

I didn't think of that, but this has been going on since around Spring I believe, I can't remember when it started exactly. I got them the new cage I think end of March, early April at the latest (I could try to see if I still have order confirmation or receipt). It started sometime after that. They have always been in our bedroom, since they were together, this was certainly a new behavior when it started.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/13/14 08:02 PM

Well, I heard Ollie getting fussy again last night. He makes a warning hissing noise, followed by clicks or chatter, not the same happy popping or clicking sound we hear them make when their content or like or investigating something. These are louder and mean sounding, then the crab or fuss noise, it's not like the crab noise you hear when they are disturbed in pouch, but more fussy.

Anyway, I heard the warning sounds about twice in a short period of time, then the fussing started. I did go look to see what he was guarding and he was eating from the f/v bowl on floor, but seemed to fuss when someone got too close to "his" treehouse.

I can't be sure if it was the food or the treehouse he was chasing one of the girls away from. And I couldn't tell which girl it was, because it was too dark and they were near back of cage, I couldn't see to identify her.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/15/14 04:59 AM

Lots of bickering from Ollie tonight already. He's either in or on the treehouse toy on the floor, when the girls, either or both go down to floor near him, he fusses and chases them away. I moved the v/f bowl that was on floor to shelf with other v/f bowl and seeing what he does. I want to eliminate food aggression for certain, as I suspect it's not about food.
Posted By: Feather

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/15/14 05:51 AM

He has chosen the tree house to be his man cave and he is protecting it. LOL

Silly little man, doesn't he know the women rule the roost and the rooster.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/15/14 01:04 PM

He seems to like hanging around on floor level. On this level I have a wheel, fake branch, and usually either the treehouse or Noah's ark toy. I used to keep the v/f bowls on floor or lower level, after the fussing and chasing began, I moved one bowl to a higher level thinking it was food related. I was confused however because at times they'd eat together fine. Then I noticed he appeared to be guarding the Noah's arc toy. I switch these out every few weeks, so lately it is the treehouse. I feel I should leave all food on upper level to see if there is any skirmishes taking place near food or if they stay around floor toys.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/16/14 01:38 PM

Well a lot of fussing from Ollie this morning, and of course as I would guess, Ollie was on the floor, with no food in sight. I'm going to continue keeping all food on upper levels to observe Ollie's source of possessiveness.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/20/14 12:56 AM

There is good news and bad news.

The good news is Ollie boy doesn't appear to be food aggressive, which is a huge relief.

The bad news is he's titled himself the "Floor Manager", which means he controls the ongoings on the floor of the cage, and the accessories he deems to be "his" he will not let the girls have access to with out fussing and chasing them off.

But at least it's not the food, and there are two wheels, and other hide-out and toy options throughout the cage, so the girls have plenty to do.
Posted By: Feather

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/20/14 01:27 AM

shakehead
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/20/14 01:59 PM

It sounds like Ollie has figured out what his role in the colony is. wink
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/20/14 02:24 PM

Yes, it seems so.

I'm a little curious and concerned about what's going to happen in their vacation enclosure. They all got along great in there on the way out here, but he hadn't claimed his position at that time. He was still in the "honeymoon" stage and showing off his cool wheel moves. There will be only one wheel (travel sized) and not as much toys will fit.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/21/14 02:29 PM

Well, they spent the night in the vaca habitat because their cage is loaded in the Uhaul. I heard some barking here and there throughout the night and morning, but that happens in cycles every so often and had been on and off this past week. I didn't hear any fussing, unless I slept through that. I doubt it though, the habitat was on closer to me than the cage was.
Posted By: JenK

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/28/14 11:42 PM

Hope all goes well for you and the trio! Reading your story is very interesting . Sugar glider behavior is so complex! Please keep us posted on how things progress- you always have interesting info:)
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 11/29/14 12:13 AM

Thank you. They are quite amusing and never cease to amaze me with their personalities they have.

Well, while traveling across country again and staying in their vacation habitat, I didn't hear any skirmishes, but then neither the tree house or Noah's arc have been available to them during the trip.

Since returning, they're still currently in the vacation habitat for a bit longer, I cannot sleep in the room they're currently in at the time, but working on it so I can spend the night in the same room with them, I miss that. I'm hesitant on placing one of those floor toys in there until I can get them into their regular cage as well as sleep where I can keep an ear out on Ollie.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/03/14 03:21 PM

Sadly, I'm not able to sleep in the same room with my brats since I've arrived back in MD Tuesday November 25th (we moved).
I'm hoping within the next couple of weeks (more or less) to be able to do so, however they are now in their second night back in their home cage.

Since not being able to sleep in the same room, I cannot tell if there are any squabbles going on over floor toys, however I've seen them all eating well together still. All the food (main diet) is served on the corner shelf.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/03/14 10:32 PM

Terry, why don't you check into getting/borrowing a baby monitor? Then you could at least still hear them.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/03/14 11:34 PM

That's a good idea, however, I don't know anyone who has one to spare to borrow from and I'm prioritizing my purchases. I think if it would be longer than a couple of weeks or so, I would invest in one of those.

Thanks for the suggestion.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/04/14 12:07 AM

wink
Posted By: Kris_N_Zoe

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/04/14 04:37 AM

There's usually some at GoodWill if you have one in your area. Just a thought. wink
Posted By: JenK

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/04/14 11:29 PM

Hi Terry
I purchased a D Link home monitor camera- sound quality isn't great,but good video feed for the money, $60 on amazon with a free link to iphone- just needs WiFi,or hard wired. I know you said you didn't want to purchase anything now, but thought I would share. smile
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/05/14 12:04 AM

Thank you, that sounds like something that I might be nice to have sometime in the future.

I appreciate the suggestions, but I had mentioned already that it wasn't feasible at this time. Although all good ideas, as I do miss not sleeping in the same room, but really, I seriously can't justify that spending at this time.

I will hopefully be able to sleep in their room with them in about 2 weeks or so. Not really much longer, just seems that way frown . I still have a lot of cleaning out in that room and the major part, weather willing (hopefully not too rainy)moving large pieces of furniture out this Saturday. Then it's a matter of getting a bed, one of my larger expenses. I had to order more food for the gliders already, and I had to have a tire repaired today. On top, I'd like to have something for my grandchildren for Christmas at least, so I'm not in a hurry to rush out and buy a camera or baby monitor that I'll only need for two weeks. I'm living on limited funds left from savings until I get a job out here.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/08/14 11:24 PM

Last evening and again this evening, I heard & saw Ollie boy fussing at the girls at the food bowls (f/v). I did get the food in kind of late this evening, but only a little late last night.

Ollie is used to being the first one up to eat, and the girls have been coming out soon after to get some food. I do have some Happy Glider pellets in some forage toys for them to munch on, and around 4pm this evening I saw all three of them on their branch (with forage cups) eating some pellets. So I thought is was ok to serve their dinner a little later because they were snacking kind of close to dinner serving time (between 5-5:30pm).

I ended up moving a bowl to the cage floor and Lulu and Skadoosh were eating from that bowl together while Ollie enjoyed eating on what has become their dinner shelf.

I guess I'm going to have to use two dining areas, at least for f/v bowls for now frown . He wasn't really vicious or attacking them, but fussy and I want all of my brats to be able to eat in peace.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/14/14 02:35 PM

Yesterday was a big day moving furniture out that had to go and some of my furniture in (still not bed yet, but that will come).

Anyway, my son and brother-inlaw (who has truck) came to move the heavy furniture and take things where they needed to go. It was just before 3pm getting started and just a little after 5pm when the heavy work was done. My sister and brother-inlaw left, they had stuff to do, and my son, who lives about 40 minutes away stayed for a while to visit a bit, which was real nice since I don't see him often. Anyway, this made it after 6pm getting my glider's food to them, It's been a long time since I've served their dinner that late, other than Thanksgiving.

Anyway, Skadoosh was up and waiting on the shelf when I first went up, then when I got back with the food, Ollie was waiting with her. They had eaten most of the pellets that was in their forage toys. I'm not sure if Lulu had been up and went back to pouch or if she'd slept the whole time. I placed their HPW in it's holder and placed a f/v bowl on shelf and another f/v on the floor, under their fake branch to help hide from view.

Let me say at first I was pleasantly surprised because Ollie and Skadoosh began eating from the same bowl on the shelf. But it didn't last long, he became very fussy with her, but didn't lunge at her or chase her, it was all talk.

She and Lulu, who finally came out began eating from bowl on the floor.

I left them to eat for a bit, then started to get busy moving and rearranging furniture and a bunch of boxes and stuff that needs sorting through to finish cleaning out the room. I got their cage and furniture placed in the planned locations, most of their stuff in order and organized (adjustments come later) and the rest of my clothes unpacked from suitcases and put away dance

During this time on and off, Ollie became very much a bully, he was fussing more aggressively and lunging and chasing the girls away from the food. Sometimes it was on the floor and other times from the shelf. I did fuss with him and at times even put my hand in the cage to stop him. upset

My precious Lulu moment:

I checked on them all this morning, Lulu was up and I gave her some pine nuts, the others stayed asleep. Lulu wanted to come out so badly, the room is still such a mess, no room for tent and stuff everywhere, I couldn't let her out to play. I felt so bad, so I let her out on my arm, hoping she wouldn't run to my back like she usually does. This time, she just sat on my arm, in front! She actually let me pet her and love on her a little, this rarely happens, but I was ecstatic, my Lulu moment dance Then I put her back into the cage and waited a bit, after she went back to the pouch, I took the pouch in and checked on the other two. Everyone was fine.

My plan is to get a lot of stuff out during the week to make room for my bed when I get it. In the meantime, when the floor is cleared, I'm hoping to be able to get my babies out for much deserved and long awaited out of cage play.

Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/14/14 09:46 PM

Awww, that is so sweet! Such a special moment.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/15/14 03:47 PM

Ollie was a meanie butt again last night and this morning to my girls over the food.

I placed the food in earlier than usual, 4:30pm. They all slept in a little due to the nail trims and mealie feast. I placed one f/v bowl on shelf and one on floor under a toy for cover as I've been doing.

I wasn't in the room when they got up the first time to eat, so I don't know who got up first.

I'm planning on getting the food in there earlier every day, while I can and figure out how to handle any schedule changes when I start working again.

He seems to be more aggressive on the floor, so I'm thinking of ways to offer both stations off the floor. I will see what I can work out and try different ways until I find what works.

I was wondering though, as some of you know about the changes in my life this past year, you are aware that my poor babies have not had consistent out of cage playtime scheduling they had before I moved the first time earlier this year. They've had some more recently, prior to the second move, but went a long period with none. Is it possible that being "pent up" could cause the change in Ollie's personality towards the food?

I realize that changes in my schedule with feeding them is a most likely factor and the fact that the girls are up now when or soon after the food is being offered most of the time. Ollie boy is used to being the first one to have access to the food and eating his first meal alone. I have seen them eat nicely together at times, but there has been a lot of fussing going on lately again. I can't help but wonder if the changes in all the routines has taken an effect on him.

The good news is it wont' be too much longer before they can get into a routine with out of cage play, I know it makes a difference in their attitude towards me.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/15/14 10:11 PM

It's almost 5:30pm, I place their dinner in cage just after 5. I had wanted to do it a little earlier, but lost track of time.

I went ahead and placed the f/v bowls in the usual places this time. I placed in the food and left for a couple of minutes, then I went back to check on them. I heard chewing as I was entering the room, but had to turn on another light to identify who it was, lol. Luckily, light didn't disturb them, I thought it was Ollie at first, then Skadoosh and who I thought was Lulu popped out of the pouch. Skadoosh went right to the floor bowl and the other came out and climbed around to the shelf. I was curious to see Ollie's reaction to Lulu. Lol, it turned out it was Lulu on the shelf eating already and Ollie coming around to join in the feast. I don't really know how I could mistake Lulu for Ollie, but the light wasn't that bright, and I couldn't see her head front on, or I would have been able to tell for sure.

I enjoyed watching them for a little while.
Anyway, Lulu and Ollie ate peacefully from the shelf bowl while Skadoosh enjoyed picking out all the corn from the floor bowl shakehead tossing aside green beans and bok choy.

I checked back on the two on the shelf before leaving the room. At this point Lulu was on and hovering the bowl, Ollie walked around her to get another green bean, Lulu enjoyed the okra first.

They were up around 3:30 snacking on some Happy Glider, while I was placing clean fleece items inside their cage.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/21/14 01:54 AM

I did some cleaning in the cage this afternoon, and changed out a few toys and some rearrangement of some accessories. All the commotion woke my little brats and of course they ended up coming out and looking for food shakehead , they got into the forage toys, I had just filled.

Earlier this morning when I was taking out food dishes, which were emptied pretty good (they had a feast of brussel sprouts and apple with a little of their regular mix), they had full bowls, plenty of food, and while I was cleaning the food shelf, Ollie came out looking for food, all the forage toys were emptied as well at that point, so I gave him a couple of nibbles.

I placed their dinner in just after 5pm this eve. Lulu was up already and first to get to the shelf, and Ollie was joining her within seconds, then Skadoosh made her way over and all three were eating well together again, as they've been the last couple of evenings. I'm not hearing as much fussing, only occasionally later at night or early morning, but sometimes it could be I'm just too sound asleep dunno

When I rearranged some items, I sat their branch up vertical for a change (as I usually do every couple of weeks), so I decided to try one of the little barn diners I used to use (seen in earlier post of this thread). I'm curious how this will be, I'll have to really listen out tonight, because these are small with one way in and out.
I've been nervous about using them, but I thought it would help hide the food bowl, but I'm considering putting both bowls back on shelf if they seem to be eating there fine all together. I'm not sure what is best to do.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/21/14 07:48 PM

I didn't hear any fussing in the evening, but in the morning around 6am, I got up to take my dog out, and hear Ollie boy fussing away. They were on the floor of cage but ran to the front when they saw me. I gave them quick hello pats, but that wasn't what they wanted.

I made sure they had over the 2tbs of f/v per glider, and Ollie was chasing someone away from the diner on the floor. I did add a second one to the floor this morning, on the other side (another small barn). I got out the third food bowl out and will place 3 bowls of their f/v in tonight to see if it helps.

I'm thinking what is going on is when food is placed early enough, for the most part Ollie seems ok sharing from the start. As the night goes on and the food becomes more limited he gets guarded over it. Does this make sense?

I really have to keep speculating and trying different things. I'm hoping when routines get in order, this may help as well. I'm a little concerned though still over his change of behavior, maybe it is just he's trying to raise up the chain.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/22/14 01:52 AM

tant I'm at my wits end, not sure what else to try. The extra food dish had to be moved from the diner and placed on the shelf with the other bowl. Ollie started out fine but soon guarded both floor diners. He sat on one ( in the back right corner). When Lulu went to go into the diner in the front left diner, Ollie ran right over fussing and chased her back across the cage and up halfway,

I know that they all had ate quite a bit from the shelf bowl, and I believe that's when Ollie gets guarded over remaining food.

He hasn't hurt any of the girls so far, and no one is loosing weight, but I don't like my girls being treated that way.
Posted By: Feather

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/22/14 02:59 AM

You may have to rig up another ledge for them.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/22/14 04:23 AM

I'll try and see what I can do to work that out.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/22/14 10:43 PM

I was considering about getting some type of shelf for the cage, but already having the one corner shelf, I really didn't want to take up that much more space. So then I realized I'll have to resort to a hanging diner of sorts, I don't really like diners. Anyway, I stopped at the Dollar Tree after finishing up some Christmas shopping earlier today and got a container I thought I could rig. I got it home, melted holes where I thought they should be to attach some chain I have. Melted the entrance holes on opposite sides, but I couldn't get the darn thing to hang too good. I ended up having to melt holes for chains on the other two end. Here is a photo, it does get a little slanted, and I was hoping to get the photo when there was a glider or two, that's right, two gliders were inside eating at one time. My phone does this thing where the SD card removes itself, so I had to take my phone apart to get the picture, everyone was back in the pouch by then.



You can see it's hanging from the corner shelf where I still keep one bowl (used to be able to serve both bowls, now up to three in three locations frown )


Here is where the other diner is in the right back corner.

Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/30/14 04:55 AM

Have you tried taking all of the dishes out of the covered areas to see if that might make a difference. They may feel confined in the enclosed space and that might contribute to their food sharing issues.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/30/14 12:17 PM

Most of the time the bowls are not in an enclosed structure, I just recently tried those and they failed. I have however always tried to place the bowls under something to try to keep food clean, they seem to like to sit or hover over their bowls.

This is what I've tried more recently:

Placing a bowl on center of shelf, under hanging structure to give access to the bowl from all around, the structure hangs low enough to prevent hovering over. I've been placing a little over 1/3 of f/v combo in bowl.

I place cage mount feeder under shelf, it's out of view but has room for them to sit on, in, or hover as I can't control distance of the bars of cage wall. I've been placing about 1/3 or little less of f/v combo.

These two are placed in cage by or before 5pm usually.

A third bowl containing 1/3 of f/v is saved for later placement. I take remaining combo from shelf bowl and empty leftover contents into the cage mount feeder, then replace with new, full bowl.

I have tried the food replacement method at various times to see if there is a difference. I'm still working on comparing the times for improvement, but so far it seems that adding fresh bowl before 10 pm seems to have better results over later than 10pm. I've heard fussing after then or later prior to replacing the bowl.

It's so bazaar, I have heard/ seen him fuss at girls where there is no food on occasions and have seen them eat peacefully together at several times. Ollie's behavior usually changes later in the evening to early am. Rarely will he fuss starting out.

Two things I've considered:

1. Ollie was an early riser, looking and waiting for food, some occasions he would be in the pouch and come out as soon as food was placed. I feel he had been up and went back to pouch to wait though.

The girls are now getting up earlier, sometimes one of them, either Lulu or Skadoosh will be up before Ollie.

He may feel he's loosing first pickings.

2. Because most of the time the fuss starts later, and there is less food to choose from, he may be guarding remaining food. By placing a fresh bowl a little later may help give more selection.


Something that I just considered over night: I have been using mixture, several varieties of fruits and veggies offered every night. I cannot remember when I started to prepare them that way, but believe it was before Ollie got fussy.

I'm now considering on going back to offering several different and smaller varieties like I used to do.

I cannot be sure if it's the larger variety or just less food to pick and choose from that could be causing the change.



I do leave pellets in the cage, and have recently (being home all day, while unemployed) noticed one of the gliders getting up early in the day looking for food.

These gliders are not starving, I've yet to get a scale, but none appear to have lost any weight. They all look and act very healthy and activity level is normal. There is usually some leftovers in at least one of their f/v bowl and occasionally of their staple nectar, but that's usually finished.

The three of them sleep in same pouch.




Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/30/14 06:23 PM

Another thought if you have not tried it -

When I feed frozen mixed vegetables (limited to once a week) Sassy chases the other gliders away from the dish they normally share peacefully until SHE has had all of the corn out of the mixture she wants. She considers it HERS.

Every other night I feed one fruit and one vegetable along with their staple on a single divided plate placed in the middle of the cage floor. All 4 gliders in the colony either eat at the plate together or grab a piece of fruit or veggie and take it to their own favorite spot in the cage to munch on.

The ONLY time there are squabbles over food is when there is a small amount of one item (corn) and Sassy wants it all. My other 2 colonies have no issues over food at all.

They still get a variety because I feed a different pair each night so the get at least 7 fruits and 7 vegetables each week. I do count peas & carrots and mixed vegetables as ONE veggie of the 7 and the usually get one or the other of these each week, not both.

I have no picky gliders - they all eat what ever I offer each night.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/30/14 06:51 PM

Thanks Candy, I was thinking of going back to different, smaller varieties each night, I used to offer one or two of each f/v. I have two full batches of mixed medley of several f/v both frozen and fresh that was chopped and frozen. There is about 1.5 - 2 weeks worth in each, plus a couple of more nights left in another batch. I may be going away for a few nights this weekend, if my sister will feel comfortable feeding them a few nights. I will try to figure a way to sort through and divide up into several different smaller variety serving and store them that way when I get back, and see how it goes.

I've seen divided plates at Dollar Tree and considered them. I have read that you and others use them, but I'm too particular about them being all over their food, sitting and stepping in it, even going to potty in it.
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/31/14 04:47 AM

My gliders are pretty good about gathering around the plate and eating from the sides. By morning they sometimes slide it under one of the shelves and it gets some droppings in it but I think they eat most of the food before they start moving the plate around the cage.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/31/14 04:02 PM

I find the same at my house, Candy.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/31/14 05:04 PM

Your gliders must have better manners than mine, lol. If there is room above the dishes they will sit in or on and hover over the dish. The cage mount feeders are larger and they have room to climb on and into them due to the bar spacing, the bowls, if there is space, they will hover completely over it crazy I'm concerned they will climb right onto the plate, but maybe I'll pick up one at the Dollar Tree if they still have them and give it a try, however, I cannot see me putting their liquid portions on one, what a mess they would make. They do sit around their "Wormy Wednesday" dish (a round,shallow glass ash tray) pretty well, but that gets scarfed up so fast, not really time to trample all over it.

It is official, I am going to New York for a few days, leaving Saturday am and returning Tuesday, early afternoon most likely. I'm going with my sister and nephew, he is performing with a group at the Lincoln Center (he plays the base). My oldest sister will feed the fur brats for me Saturday through Monday. Monday will be the trickiest due to her work schedule, they'll get fed later, but that's bound to happen at times anyway, I just hope they don't give her any trouble. I used to be able to place their dinner in anywhere from 5-7pm before they'd get up, I don't know why they all started getting up looking for food so early this year. All I can think of is the time change when we moved to AZ, and the time was 2 hours behind the time here, so when it was 4pm there, it was normal feeding time here. Is it possible that the time difference messed up their feeding schedule? All this started after the move, plus in the Spring when the clocks move forward, it was then 3 hours behind. Oh I wish I kept better track of when all this exactly started to see if was after DST. If this is the case, could it be possible that they'll start getting up later to eat again after adjusting to the new time change? I know gliders can tell that it got darker earlier in AZ than it did here, and if they use daylight to determine their schedule.

This morning there was little more f/v scraps in both dishes and almost half the liquid left, this happens rarely. They ate all their pellets as usual (I usually leave in forage toys, and they usually eat all or most). When I went into the room this morning around 6, Lulu and Skadoosh were running in wheels and jumping about the cage over to the door to greet me....for food. Ollie was in the pouch, but popped his head out when I called him. I was getting ready to give them their last Wormy Wednesday for the year, when I thought I may trim their nails (they're due this weekend)before I go instead of when I come back. So I gave each one, but then they argued over the second round and I ended up giving them pine nuts. These fluff balls are not starving like they want me to think nopity
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 12/31/14 08:07 PM

I went to the Dollar Tree and bought one of those divided plates. I will wash it and try it tonight, and maybe again tomorrow and see if it helps.

Should I also serve a small bowl of f/v on the shelf just in case?


I'm anxious to see because if it works out, it may be easier for my sister feeding them.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/01/15 12:08 AM

Ok, so I placed 2/3 of their f/v on the plate, the last 1/3 I put in a bowl.

I placed only the plate on the floor around 4pm. Ollie was up and waiting on the shelf for his dinner. I showed him the plate and then placed it on the floor. He had his first pick'ns the way he likes. Then Lulu came out and ran to the shelf looking for food, then Skadoosh came out and headed to the shelf, but she noticed Ollie eating on the floor. Ollie went into the tree house and Skadoosh followed him in. He had eaten all the corn on the plate exclamation . They ate from around the plate at first, like good little gliders, than Lulu climbed onto the plate and sat right in the middle. Later, Ollie was all over the plate.

I put the bowl of 1/3 f/v mix on the shelf and left remainder of plate on the floor, after they went back to sleep.

I also rearranged their cage floor, swapped the wheels, and changed a couple of other furnishings around the cage.



As for the f/v mixture, I did the best I could with what was already in freezer mixed together. I had 2 full and 1 empty containers, so I split up the rest three ways. I removed corn from 2 containers, 1 without corn has blackberries and no okra, the other container without corn has okra, no blackberries, and the third containers has full mix minus the blackberries. This was the best way I could change them up, the next batch I will make three different batches of fewer different f/v combinations and see if that helps, but that won't be for a few more weeks. I will in the mean time figure out which combinations to create and then alternate them.

I'm trying everything I can after the usual efforts have been ineffective. I guess it comes down to figuring out the trigger and then finding a solution.

If the time changes effected their wake time and contributed to triggering his food aggression, then time will tell as they adjust to daylight hours here again.

If it's the too varied mixture of f/v combo, that will gradually be re-adjusted to resolve the issue.


I'm going to try the plate for the next couple of nights but I'm not sure if it's best to place the other 1/3 in the bowl at the same time as serving the 2/3 on the plate. On one hand that offers two feeding areas for f/v but then I can't "refresh" food amounts later. Which would be best to do?

Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/01/15 02:50 AM

Quote:
I will in the mean time figure out which combinations to create and then alternate them.


When you finish the combinations you have on hand, try a week of offering only one or two vegetables and one or two fruits each night and see if it makes any difference. They will eat what is available and if there is nothing in limited supply they cannot fight over rights to eat the 'favorite' item in the mixture.

You will still be feeding a wide variety - just spread out over a week. Everyone will get a share of each food offered and the nutrients they contain. None of them can avoid eating the same food every time - there for not getting those nutrients at all.

When I offer mixed vegetables I am positive that some of the gliders never get to taste the corn and they always leave the carrots for last so I know some of the gliders are never eating any of the carrots which I want them all to eat. If I offer only carrots they will eat them.

If feeding only one or two choices does not change things you can go back to mixing it all together. The only advantage to making mixtures is for the convenience of just scooping food onto the plate. There is no nutritional advantage to combinations.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/01/15 04:53 AM

Candy, how do you prepare and store them that way? I've made smaller combos prior to the big mix, but always purchase the variety and then have to prepare and store in freezer so they don't spoil.
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/01/15 04:34 PM

I buy most of my vegetables frozen so they are ready to serve each night.

I buy mango (dole brand), blueberries, black berries and cherries already frozen. I cut the cherries in half but the others are served as is.

For the watermelon, cantaloupe, honeydew melon and papaya - I buy either whole or in large chunks (Publix sell them in a bowl already peeled and seeds removed). I cut each one up into glider size pieces and freeze the pieces - separated on a wax paper covered cookie sheet. Once frozen, I pop the pieces off the wax paper and transfer them to a zip lock bag to store in the freezer. I do one fruit at a time and once I have a bag of each, I only need to do one a week to keep the supply replenished. By pre-freezing the pieces they remain separate in the freezer so I just pull out the amount needed for each colony's dinner plate.

Instead of large containers of a mixture of fruits and vegetables, my freezer has zip lock freezer bags with individual items. I just choose a fruit and a vegetable bag each night to serve from. I just rotate through all my available produce each week. It is easy to see which items I need to purchase when I go shopping just by looking at the bags in the freezer.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/01/15 07:05 PM

Thank you Candy.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/01/15 09:16 PM

There was more fussing later in the evening and also this morning.

They left about the usual amount of f/v scraps on plate, bowl was empty. The nectar portion was almost completely gone, and they ate all the pellets in the cage, both in a forage toy and some I placed in a dish, hoping that would last a couple of days.


I've got to figure out the best but easiest way for my sister for feeding them. When I get back I'll work on trying other techniques until I finish the f/v mixes I have prepared, then change the way I prepare those.

I'm sorry if this is going on so long, but I've tried the 2 and even 3 feeding areas. I've also tried placing food in early, but they or one of them anyway gets up earlier, it's almost impossible to succeed with that. I've kept pellets in the cage for daytime snacking or if they get up prior to dinner being served. I've tried more open feeding stations. I do not know what else to do until I can try changing the f/v mixture.

I'm beginning to think this is something me and the girls will have to live with if I can't find a way to stop it. No one is getting hurt or loosing weight, so should I just accept this at some point? How about my girl's feelings, are they going to be affected by this?
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/02/15 02:05 AM

Oh my gosh,that Ollie! He had plenty of time for first pickens from the plate, but still fussed,chasing Skadoosh away, Lulu ate from bowl on the shelf in peace.

So I took the plate out and emptied contents in cage mount feeder and attatched under the shelf. The girls ended up eating from that,then Ollie joined them, they all did fine.

Just now I was looking in on them and Ollie was fussing and chasing Skadoosh from the floor in front of the floor wheel, near where the plate was,only it's not there anymore and no food is on the floor at all.

Why is he being like this? I'm feeling so sorry for my girls, but I love him too, and they do get along when in the pouch and at least half the time they're awake.
Posted By: Kris_N_Zoe

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/02/15 05:39 PM

Maybe Ollie is a control freak? dunno Sounds like he's just being a lil snot cuz he can.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/02/15 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Kris_N_Zoe
Maybe Ollie is a control freak? dunno Sounds like he's just being a lil snot cuz he can.




:funny:


I just don't know what to do about it.
Posted By: Kris_N_Zoe

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/02/15 06:54 PM

If it was a kid, you could talk to them and do "time-out"s... But for a glider.... Idk. Let the girls give him "what for" when they're ready.
Posted By: Ladymagyver

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/03/15 12:04 AM

How sweet! I treasure my special moments with each of my girls. They are both only 5.5 months old, and they bring tears of pride when they do something sweet or special. Dot has turned into a sweetie, but still guards the pouch. She's started jumping up and crabbing with the fight eyes on! But once I start to shush her,she sees it's me the eye cover goes away, and does the gurgle crab that I guess means I didn't like to be disturbed. I will pat and rub the pouch till she calms down. But Dot surprizes me with her sweetness when she's wide awake.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/06/15 10:25 PM

I got back from NY early this morning and greeted my doggie (missed me terribly) and my fur-brats. Lulu was up and I went ahead and gave her a pine nut, then Skadoosh came down and took it, so I gave Lulu another one. After that, they both came to the door for them. Ollie stayed in pouch, but looking out, so he was given a few while in the pouch. I had to go to bed after being up all night.

After I got up this afternoon, about 2pm, I put them in their bonding pouch to hang out for a while. Around 4pm I fixed their dinner, in three feeding dishes and placed the food in their cage: Bowl on the f/v on the floor, a cage mount feeder just below their shelf, and another cage mount feeder up as high as I could place in on same side, but towards front of cage.

I let them out of the bonding pouch one at a time: Ollie at the bowl on the floor, Lulu at the feeder below the shelf, and Skadoosh at the top feeder.

I watched for a bit to see how they did, they all ate from the dishes I placed them at for a bit, then I went to get my phone to take photos. Ollie, by this time headed up to the shelf and looked back and forth between Lulu and Skadoosh. He ended up sharing the feeder with Lulu, they did fine together. Then Skadoosh made her way to the floor bowl.

Here are the cute photos, please excuse their "bed head" they were just let out of their bonding pouch, :lol:

This is Skadoosh at the top feeder


Lulu


Ollie joining Lulu


Skadoosh at the floor bowl, where Ollie was started



Everything seemed fine until just a few minuets ago, I heard some fussing again dunno


Anyway, not much new, but I wanted to share the photos of my little fur munchkins, 'cause they're so cute anyway.

I hope when I get to start new mixture, things will improve. I will post an update when I have the new mixtures fixed and log how it goes. Of coarse if any new developments occur before hand.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/08/15 03:08 PM

I had to update, it was so cute last eve when I placed the food in. It was just a bit after 4pm (still early) and Ollie was up already. He got so excited to see me, or the food dishes, I'm not really sure which grin One of the girls was popping their cute head out of pouch as I placed the food in the cage. Ollie went right to the floor where he started the day before, Lulu went to the feeder she had the day before, (Oops, I have to retract and correct) Skadoosh did go to the floor bowl, and Ollie did chase her (I almost forgot about that), she ran to the tree house. I was able to scoop her up after a couple of attempts and I placed her at the top feeder. I can't believe I forgot that, I was remembering that Ollie and Lulu seemed to remember where to go, but then Skadoosh did end up at the floor bowl, so maybe she was confused and thought it was hers, lol.

I didn't hear a lot of fussing either, so if there were any squabbles, it had to happen when I was either deeply sleeping (which happens once in a while) or out of ear-shot, which could have happened, but I can usually hear them if I'm in the living or dining room. The dogs did bark at each other quite a bit, so that also could of muffled the sound of the squabbles upstairs.


Oh, I also wanted to note that I've noticed when giving out treats or watching after feeding time, that Ollie and Skadoosh have taken treats and food (on occasions) from Lulu, she just lets them have it without a fight and comes or goes for another. I have also noticed that Ollie has tried to take treats or food from Skadoosh, she will usually not let him have it, but sometimes he does get it. I have not seen Lulu try to take treats or food from anyone and I haven't seen Skadoosh try to take any treats/food from Ollie. When it's a piece of food, it doesn't happen often, but sometimes they'll all be eating fine, then either Ollie or Skadoosh will see Lulu eating something they want and take it from her, she will still get food, just has to get another piece from the bowl. I have not seen this happen.
Posted By: Kris_N_Zoe

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/08/15 06:34 PM

Poor Lulu...Gettin' bullied by both cage mates. At least they don't have a grooming competition on her head, She'd be bald! shock
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/08/15 10:53 PM

She over grooms her own head, always has on and off. She's been bald on her eyebrows for the longest time, I think from being off out of cage routine. I've gotten her out a few times lately, but it looks like it might be starting to grow back now.

So this evening, I placed them at the same food dishes. Ollie was a little brat when the girls came down to check out the floor bowl.


I got some cute photos, try to upload some later. They scattered around and investigated the changes in the cage, then ate some more, lol. Other photos are in a different thread.

The top two feeders are seen in this photo, two are sharing the lower one by the time I got my phone ready to take photos.


Lulu eating from the floor bowl.

Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/10/15 04:00 PM

Ollie was being his usually fussy self, chasing the girls when they came to or near the cage floor. He was near his bowl and turned fussing, getting ready to chase Lulu away as she approached the fake branch on the floor. I did the "psssst" sound at him. He stopped dead in his tracks and turned and looked at me like "Did you just pssst me?" Of course, he went back to his guarding of the floor bowl and floor shakehead I did this a few more times, the second time he also stopped and looked at me, gave me a little stare and then proceeded as usual with his macho floor manager attitude. Skadoosh had stopped on the corner shelf watching and made her way down for a closer look, maybe to see what was going to happen, can't really know for sure with these buggers. Over all, the pssst didn't seem to correct his behavior.
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/10/15 10:26 PM

Have you tried using a larger plate that more than one glider can approach without getting in another's way.

The tiny crocks and the small hanging cups in your photos only allow one glider to use the bowl at a time.


A larger shallow plate lets them approach from different angles and not get in each other's way.

Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/10/15 11:54 PM

Yes, I got one on the 31st of December and tried it. I posted about it, but didn't include a photo. It didn't help. I served the f/v combo, I will not place HPW in a dish that they can walk on. Ollie was not really sharing well most of the time, although they all did at one point get to eat from it earlier on. Later, Ollie controlled the plate, fussing and chasing the girls away. I had to place some f/v in a crock in another location.

I have tried everything, I've used 2-3 feeding stations, I'm currently using three and keeping them from eye's view of each other (for f/v combo, the HPW is a non-issue, I've seen them all drink from the feeder, but never a fuss over it).

When I went back to 3 feeding stations, I had the bowl out on the floor (as seen in photo). I still had trouble with Ollie controlling the bowl, and going up to other feeders, but those he didn't chase the girls away, he ate with them peacefully for the most part. It is really strange. He get's protective over the floor, sometimes even with the toys. I would try the plate again, but I need f/v in more than one location so my girls can access it.

I have also place food earlier in the cage, another method to curb food aggression. This doesn't help either. I can only hope that when the f/v mixture I currently have is gone, I can offer fewer selections each night. I'm thinking 2 veggies and 1 fruit each night, but different combos.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/11/15 02:15 AM

Have to say that I love the idea of using a hammock as a barrier in front of the food dish! Very clever!
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/11/15 05:28 AM

Thank you, I've been racking my brain trying to create openess and barrier at the same time. I only wish it was the whole solution. I'm beginning to think my girls will be subjected to his attitude for the remainder of their lives. Has long as no escalation and harm, I can't see separating them. They're all still getting to eat and at times together without issue. I wish I could figure what his trigger is. There are occasional, " your foot is in my face" kind of fuss from one or the other when in pouch, but they never have slept apart from each other. They're fine when playing still, so far as well, except for occasional floor toy dominance here and there, it's mostly with f/v that's an issue, and not always. It's perplexing that all the recommended remedies are ineffective.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/11/15 03:01 PM

Then I'm going to go way out on a limb and say the unusual. Maybe "they" don't really have an issue with the colony dynamics in the cage. Maybe its just you that is uncomfortable with the behavior since you don't fully understand it. dunno If they are all eating well and seemingly get along the majority of the time, then I wouldn't be overly concerned. A bit of dominance here and there isn't unheard of or typically a problem. I would still keep an eye on things to ensure it isn't escalating into a real issue, but I think this just may be the way they are.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/11/15 04:09 PM

That could be true, I don't understand it at all, especially since it started a few months after they were together peacefully and prior to the new cage. It may be that all though the girls Madagascar cage had been cleaned with v/w solution wipe down and steam cleaned (I think anyway) prior to Ollie joining the colony and Ollie's enclosure had gone through a wash maybe scent/ownership from the girls cage here in MD to Ollie's for temporary in AZ, then to a brand new, neutral cage made Ollie vie for dominance. I also wonder if the change in routine is a heavy factor.

Even though they're okay, eating well, normally active and for the most part get along, I can't help but wonder what changed. I will definitely keep an eye on them. I will also make the couple of changes I think could be as possible trigger when I can over a couple of weeks, give or take a few days. This would be the daily food selection and also (hopefully, fingers crossed) back in a routine out of cage play, I've got to get finished clearing out that room, but that's another story.
Posted By: Ladymagyver

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/11/15 10:37 PM

I don't think life is "equal" in the animal world. There will always be a dominant one. There is always a pecking order. As humans we feel everything should be fair. Unfortunately, getting involved with bickering may just make it worse. My two bicker over food sometimes, but I have learned to stay out of it. They are both growing and are healthy, even though I feel Dot gets more than her fair share. Fiona is active healthy and has always been a bit smaller untill lately. Now they are the same size. So I know Fiona is getting what she needs. They are 6 months oop now.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/23/15 11:59 PM

Over the past week, I've eliminated corn from their diet and have heard less and less bickering. Of course I'm still not sleeping in the room yet, but will be very soon (as early as mid next week) and can keep better tabs on them.

Anyway, I have three containers I mixed their f/v combos in, so I decided to try three variations, none using mixed vegetables, so no corn:

All three contain Bok Choy, Green beans, and some Okra.
Mix one also contains Cucumbers & Strawberries
Mix two also contains Cantaloupe & Honeydew
Mix three also contains Apple & Pear

I plan on occasions to add something different to their meal for more variety, s/a: baby Brussels sprout, peas, grape tomatoes, maybe an orange slice, other green leafy vegetables, and various other f/v when we have them around.

I can't wait till next week when I'll be sleeping in the same room with them and can hear them.
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/24/15 03:24 AM

Quote:
Bok Choy, Green beans, and some Okra.


I would include more than just 4 vegetables in their regular mixtures.

Each vegetable is rich in some vitamins and minerals and poor in others. A wider variety will bring a full spectrum of those vitamins and minerals to the nightly feeding.

If you are using mostly bok choi your gliders are missing out on a lot of vitamins and minerals. Adding some spinach or other dark green leafy vegetables which are rich in calcium, magnesium and Vitamins K & A or some carrots for the vitamin A would balance the diet a bit more.

No single vegetable should be more than half of all the vegetables offered in a week.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/24/15 03:02 PM

Thanks Candy, I was trying to use some fruit and vegetables that I saw looked higher in Cal or had higher Ca:p ratio. What I did was make three basic mixes, all including some fav vegetables that were higher in Ca, and each including different fruits for the "daily mix" variety, then alternate a different fruit or vegetable in their serving for the day in addition, every couple or few days.

I chose Boc Choy and Okra because I thought they're higher in Ca, and my babies like them, then I added Cucumber and Green beans because they're also favs around the cage.
I was hoping to have Black berries along with the Strawberries in the berry mix, but the store was sold out of them. I also included Pear with the Apple mix because, they love Apple, and Pear I believed was higher in Ca. The melon mix, well they love melons.

I do plan on adding in more varieties throughout the week, maybe not daily but something every couple or few days added to their "mix of the day". If you think I should add some things in each mix, I can most certainly do that, I want what's best for them, but I thought it was a good idea to add something different not in the regular mix to make it more of a change. I believe we have some frozen spinach around, and I know we have frozen peas, Broccoli and Brussels sprouts, I was planning on alternating adding in one of those throughout the weeks. I was also planning on picking up some Baby Carrots, Sugar Snap Peas, and Grape Tomatoes (my babies love grape tomatoes)and a bag of Baby Spinach or Spring Mix Salad, those are things I like to eat on a fairly regular bases and I figured they could also alternated in the mix throughout the weeks, again maybe every couple of days or so for more variety.
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/24/15 08:07 PM

Focus more on offering variety than the ratio of each food. If you are using a good staple that provides adequate calcium the fruits and vegetables round out and bring a full spectrum of vitamin and minerals to the overall feeding.

If you add some additional vegetables to your mixtures it will improve the overall vitamin and mineral content. It appears that you have less vegetables overall than fruit in the mixtures. I would go the other direction and increase the amount of vegetables in general.

Ratios do not indicate how much calcium each food offers - they only show the COMPARISON of the amount of calcium and phosphorus in that particular food.

When offering a mixture many folks think the combination will have more calcium as long as it contains bok choi or papaya. The small amounts of these in a mixture really do not add enough extra calcium to off set the phosphorus in the other foods. Most mixtures end up with the amounts of calcium and phosphorus being close to equal.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 01/24/15 10:47 PM

Thanks again Candy. I actually have three vegetables and two fruit in each mix, except for the one with strawberries, that one has the cucumber and strawberries added to the Bok Choy, Green beans, and Okra that is in all three mixes. I was going to have the cucumber in all three as well, so there would have been 4 veggies and 2 fruits in each mix & the different item, either veggie or fruit added in every couple days or so:

Mix 1= Bok Choy, Green beans, Okra, Cucumber & Strawberries (supposed to be with Black berries)
Mix 2= Bok Choy, Green beans, Okra, Apple & Pear
Mix 3= Bok Choy, Green beans, Okra, Cantaloupe & Honeydew.

These are basic "mix of the day" variations that will be changed up more when I add another fruit or veggie.

If this plan doesn't work, I will try another way. I'm kind of experimenting, I hope this will work the way I planned it.

They are being fed Critter Love Plus at this time for their nectar staple.

Now about getting to sleep in their room by mid next week, there's been another delay cry I was so excited today, my mattress had come last Wednesday, a mattress in a box, the box was big, but I thought well it's a 8" full size mattress inside so what I expected. The bed frame arrived yesterday. I couldn't wait to get started finishing and setting up my room. I got the bed frame up and together fairly easy, then came time for the mattress. My brother in-law was here helping my sister with something and luckily he helped me get this box of mattress up to my room and opened it, we pulled it out and it expanded, and expanded and was way to big for the bed frame. Then we checked the box and saw they had sent a KING size mattress tant :tant2: And a little bit of :rofl2: after imagining my sister helping with this mattress instead of my brother inlaw, well it wouldn't have been really that funny. So, anyway, he helped me return the mattress, and I got my money back, and ordered it again shakehead
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 02/03/15 04:51 PM

Today I'm going to discuss a little about their food, but mostly update on their tent time.

I've been sleeping in the same room with them for less than a week (since last Wednesday), and they've had two tent times play so far.

The first I believe I discussed in their thread about adjusting with traveling across country and settling in or the tent time play thread I started.

So I believe they've completely settled in, and I'm mostly settled in, but still work to do. As I am sleeping in the same room, I do hear skirmishes here and there. I don't know if there is more when I'm not in the room for some time in the earlier part of the evening, or if sometimes late night to early morning I'm in a deeper sleep and somehow miss it. I think my being in the room, and more importantly being in better routine, may beginning to improve things. dunno Too soon to tell for sure though.

The second tent time play was this morning, I have hung a fleece, braided vine on two plastic rings I stitched in after the first morning play. I included another hanging toy this morning, well let the photos explain, sorry I was so close to the toy. This is the best I have of the hanging set up.


At most there were two at a time on there, or just one, I couldn't get more than one at a time because being so close to toy. I'm planing on hanging some fun dangling toys from there as well some times. And when I can, add their play gym in there (when I have room to keep it here at the house).

They had a ball :lshower:

After a while though, Ollie went into attack mode on my ear, and even got my face. Ouch, I don't know what he is doing or why. At first I thought it was due to boredom when I didn't have toys in there, but the last two times I have and he still finds his way to attack my ear, and this morning he nipped my hand/fingers twice as well. I'm hoping this behavior changes after regular tent time plays continue routinely. It may be that he just hasn't had the time to bond with me like the girls have had, with the moving and lacking of out of cage play time for several months.

Now for food. I've mentioned my three mixtures and how I plan to vary those a few times per week. So, night before last I cut up an orange slice, I only offer citrus and tomato occasionally, and also included peas with their melon mix. They absolutely loved it :yes: What a big hit, they ate every morsel of their f/v that night, hardly a inkling there was any food in their dishes at all. Usually, they leave some bits behind.

This leaves me to ponder what they think when such yummy rare treats show up in their food dish.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 02/04/15 09:00 PM

This is an update on an Ollie moment only.

Ollie was up early, like before 3pm, looking around for a snack. I was just finished cleaning their drop tray, which maybe roused him, but he usually gets up a little early and sometimes too early now and then.

My hands probably still had the vinegar smell on them from the cleaning solution I use, lol. But he licked my hand like it was full of yummyness. I was able to coax him onto my hand after some effort and let him run up to my shoulder. I brought him downstairs to offer him a craison, he didn't want it, just wanted to lick my neck. Then I broke out a vanilla yogurt, he wanted none of that either, just kept licking away on my neck, lol. And the best part is he didn't even go after my ears.

It was a nice special Ollie visit.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 03/01/15 06:49 PM

Ollie boy went on a little field trip to the kitchen with me yesterday. He didn't even attack my ear this time, I think he thought about it, but was overwhelmed with the traveling that he lost interest in my ear. lol. I had been doing some house cleaning and when replacing my clean sheets on my bed, I noticed Ollie out of his pouch and realized it was close to feeding time (a bit after 4pm). I stopped what I was doing and was going to just go get the food, but as I past the cage he came to the door to greet me, and I decided while saying hello to just let him come down with me to get their food. It took only a few seconds for him to climb onto my arm and up my shoulder, then onto my back, after he peed on my shoulder rofl He piggy-backed the whole way down, but once I reached the kitchen he was on the shoulder and taking in the "kitchen wonderland". I got their food dishes out, then their food from the fridge and as I was serving it up in the dishes, I handed him a green bean. He was so cute with his green bean, he just sat on my shoulder, holding his green bean and was contently eating it and continued to do so until we reached upstairs and approached the cage. When I peeked at him, he was just holding the green bean in his mouth for transport to the cage. He readily went back into his cage with green bean in his mouth and finished eating it on the hammock as I placed the dishes inside.

I really think he's enjoying these excursions.
Posted By: Ladymagyver

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 03/01/15 10:58 PM

It's fun when they hitch a ride! Fiona went with me once to the fridge to get mealies. When I opened the fridge door it startled her so bad she jumped off and landed on the floor. Then we both went into panic mode. I took a deep breath, put my arm out palm down and asked her to come to me. She didn't need any coaxing. She ran up my arm dove into my shirt and I got the mealies out of fridge, opened up the cage door. And when she heard the latch, out she came and went obediently into the cage to wait for mealie. Like it never happened. We have made the trip since then and when I get near the fridge she hides under my hair on the back of my neck.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 03/01/15 11:45 PM

Awe, how sweet.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 03/18/15 10:36 PM

So since I have gotten permission to use the "shared" bathroom for glider out of cage time, I've had them in there twice. The first was early Sunday morning for a short time, and then again this morning, we had a little over half an hour. I bought a new small pirate ship for them to explore, they did, briefly. Mostly they groomed me, but did venture around and seemed to enjoy. I had to download night light apps on both of my tablets, lol since the one I made for them originally is in storage still.

Anyway, Skadoosh did more climbing than she has in a long time and I enjoyed their play time much better than in the tent.

Another thing happened that surprised me, all three gliders returned to me when I called their name. Lulu on two separate occasions. Of course I called their name several times before they returned, but not an extreme amount of times. I can't be certain it wasn't coincidence, but I'll see if it happens again next time. First I did it with Lulu, when she ventured around the toilet where I couldn't see her, I called her name a few times, like you'd call a kitty to you, she came around and over to me and climbed right up onto me, this happened again when I called her a second time a bit later, she was on the other side of the bathroom, near the bathroom door and I could see her. Skadoosh was by the bathroom door also, but at a different time, I called her name the same way a few times and she came to me and climbed up onto me as well. Ollie was around the other side of the toilet where Lulu had been when I called to him and he came to me the same as the girls. Has anyone had their gliders return to them when called by name? I can hardly wait to see if it happens next time.
Posted By: darkmornings

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 03/19/15 01:04 PM

"Here Lulululululu"? Sorry, my imagination has made this pretty funny wink

My gliders do not come when i call. Well, they come to the door of the cage if they are awake and feel like it. Outside of the cage i have to wave a feather cat teaser around. Or go to them.
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Ollie, Lulu & Skadoosh Diaries - 04/12/15 01:31 AM

LOL, no it was more like just repeatedly calling Lulu. She's done it a few times since, but this morning at playtime she ignored me.

And speaking of play time. I had been pretty sick all last week so didn't get them out for most the week. My schedule permits me to adopt a three mornings a week for out of cage play. Typically Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday mornings. I'm hoping the regular routine will help with Lulu's over grooming her eyebrows (above her eyes really). Anyway, I missed Monday and Wednesday last week because of feeling too sick and I'm late on cage cleaning. Today I was beginning to feel a little better, so I got them out for morning play time.

I've been having it in the bathroom and they are loving it. The girls, both Lulu and Skadoosh really have been exploring, climbing and jumping back to me like crazy. Ollie has some in the beginning, but the last two times he's spent most of the time on me, while the girls have seem more eager to run about earlier on. Anyway, I felt bad because a few times the girls would jump to something they couldn't grip and dropped to the floor. They weren't hurt, continued with activity for the duration and enjoyed pine nuts and a little last minute foraging around the cage before going to bed for the day. This evening they were all out acting normal. One of the things Skadoosh jumped to was the door, it's wood, and I wonder if she thought it was a tree. She wasn't able to grip it and slid down to the floor. Then both girls took turns jumping to the medicine cabinet door, and of course slid down and dropped to floor. Silly girls.

We still have the squabbles over the fruit/veggie bowls, but they share everything else nicely (pellets, mealies and of course the nectar). With two bowls on opposites sides of the cage and one on floor and one on top shelf, the girls have opportunity to eat, no one is starving. But yet, they seem to keep going to the bowl Ollie wants for himself. I'm beginning to not feel so sorry for them anymore because they keep going back to bother him. I haven't seen anything else that disrupts their relationship with each other, so I've stopped being overly concerned about it for the most part, unless it escalates.
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