GliderCENTRAL

Diet Study Breaking News...

Posted By: lil'_GC

Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:13 PM

Dr. Dierenfeld has just notified the GC ownership that the long awaited Glider Research Fund diet study 'Comparison of Commonly Used Diets on Intake, Digestion, and Growth and Health in Captive Sugar Gliders' has been published in the Journal of Exotic Pet Medicine July issue.

I am trying to see if we can copy or where we can go to get copies of the article and will keep you informed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:16 PM

WOOHOO! I'm SOOOOOOOOO excited! Can't wait - so where is it - get it Tom, get it!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:20 PM

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob...49458fca1422644
Found it there, scroll down to 10.
I can't read it because you need to pay $30. I can't even read the abstract... I'd love to see it, though.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:24 PM

I'm not paying $30 to read it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:28 PM

Eeek, $30?!

I wonder if we could all chip in then post a copy?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Cerian_Jenkins
Eeek, $30?!

I wonder if we could all chip in then post a copy?


My thoughts exactly!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:41 PM

I mean heck, there's got to be more than even 30 of us wanting to see this! laugh
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:46 PM

I just put in a request with the local University library, we'll see if she can get it for us.
Posted By: myangelbear77

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:46 PM

Let me see what I can do ..I work in a library and can try to get a copy of the article for free.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 06:58 PM

Try this attachment laugh

Attached File
4245-SugarGliderDietStudy.pdf  (382 downloads)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:03 PM

Thanks! I just printed it off to read.
Posted By: Xglider

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:06 PM

Awsome... going to do some reading...
Posted By: myangelbear77

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:07 PM

Ok I just spoke with someone and 2 universities have it in the system so I requested it..we will see what happens.
Posted By: myangelbear77

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:10 PM

hey wait can anyone call their vet and see if they have it and can get a copy?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:12 PM

myangelbear, if you scroll back up you will find the study as an attachment in my last post thumb
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:16 PM

Hmmmm;

"None of the three diets tested appear to contain the optimal balance for meeting the nutritional needs of sugar gliders...."

Posted By: BeckiT

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:23 PM

I made a request for it from my college library too smile

edit: and then I realized Lorna has already posted it as a PDF for us, lol
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:24 PM

Ok, I just finished reading it and to me it seems to bring up the need for more research into diets. None of the diets seem to really be optimally the best for these babies. I will look forward to any further studies on this subject. They surely are complex little buggers, aren't they! Thanks for posting that link.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:26 PM

That is so very sad about the loss of all those gliders. Stress can be detrimental to them and perhaps the flying was just too much. Thank you for all your work. I hope more work can be done so that future gliders will benefit from it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 07:48 PM

Wow - that was A LOT of information to take in! I will need to pour over it a bit later to thoroughly understand everything that was done.

The main thing that kept jumping out at me was Ca and Fe overload in all 3 diets. The vitamin C question is one that has been raised here before.

Good must come from this loss. It would be nice if we could do studies like this without subjecting the gliders involved to so much stress. We need to protect them on a higher level than just the present though. If we do not continue with such studies (though perhaps carried out differently) we will not gain the knowledge needed to improve the quality of life for gliders in the future.

(((HUGS))) to all involved, this study is a HUGE step!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 08:00 PM

Thank you Chaungo for posting that.
Posted By: myangelbear77

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 08:12 PM

Thanks for sharing it woth us..but now I am concerned...
What I gather from reading is although a glider can and will survive on any of the diets tested - none is perfect. So BML according to this study (although is very good) it is not a complete choice? I am afraid it will put to many people back in a guessing game of sorts with their diets.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 08:14 PM

I was so excited when I saw that and read it. I feel horrible for the poor gliders that passed away though.

I was told years ago by people and a vet from Australia that people in the U.S overload there gliders with too many vitamins, calcium, etc.

These findings do not surprise me one bit. I have not had any illnesses with my gliders since they adopted me 3 years ago. I also don't feed any of those diets. I didn't feel comfortable feeding them and went in search of foods they eat in their own natural habitat.

Wow, this is enlightening.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 08:23 PM

nobody panick and don't change your diets because of this. only more research is going to give us a better idea on a more heathful diet. yes it is sad that gliders where lost but how many will live fuller lives? thank you for the info.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: myangelbear77
I am afraid it will put to many people back in a guessing game of sorts with their diets.


I disagree - the study gives us recently discovered facts to deal with as opposed to the speculation & outdated info we have been relying on. I think this is just the first step in balancing our diets appropriately. It's like a progress report, it tells us the down sides to what we've been doing. Now we problem solve to create a better product, maybe not necessarily a new product - but we can add & subtract components of current diets to compensate for the findings.

I think what it has done is quite the opposite - it has actually removed some of the guessing.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 08:37 PM

Also, I have heard of many people mixing BML WITHOUT the RepCal supplements - I have to wonder if this brings the BML back down to more ideal vitamin levels.

I am also curious about the comments made regarding the protien content of the BML. The blood urea nitrogen concentration was highest in the animals fed BML. They speculate about the "protien content & quality" making the difference. I have often wondered the same thing. Out of the 3 diets studied, BML was the only one that used a "human grade" protien source.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 08:38 PM

Wow...they sure are right.....more questions than answers.

Cogitation is in order.


Getting this research done was an accomplishment of supreme merit and Suggie George has nominated those involved for the Nobel Suggie Prize to be awarded in Suggieholm next year.


Godspeed

Angel and The Suggies
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 09:23 PM

You also have to keep in mind that the study only looked at a total population of NINE gliders, three in each group. And even then, it was minus one who was removed from the study. I just thought a weight study would be difficult, as gliders have a pretty big range...
I think this study is a great start, but with such a small population sample, it would be hard to draw any concrete conclusions. I just don't know how necessary it is to run out and start doing any major diet tweaking just yet..
No matter what the results are, it's been realistically shown that there are VERY healthy gliders out there, who are living much longer than in the wild. Obviously we're doing something right.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 11:17 PM

I think it's very cool that this study was done. It is so heartening to see people take such great and worthwhile measures to try to give gliders the most ideal diet possible in captivity. Congrats to all involved on carrying out this study. It is very informative.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 11:41 PM

Yes, definitely don't stop feeding your current diet because of the study. I need to read it over again a couple of times to absorb it.

It's important to remember that science is a dynamic process and we probably shouldn't make any dramatic changes in the diets we use until we have more studies...like the mods had mentioned, it just shows a need for tweaking. I also noted the very small sample size (which certainly does not make this study NOT worthwhile, it is very valuable, but does mean that it is less reliable and we shouldn't all take it as conclusive evidence that should require us to make immediate, drastic dietary changes).

I hope more studies are done so we can continue to improve our understanding of the suggies and improve their diet more. The small number of suggies who gave their lives for this study is sad, but a small price to pay for how many gliders this will be helping by increasing our knowledge of what they need to be healthy and happy.
Posted By: Xglider

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 11:48 PM

Just to throw my 2¢ in the ring….

I have to agree… this is just a beginning it would be wonderful to have more scientific research… I will be sticking with what I feed… now the challenge is to find ways to make more of these studies happen …
Posted By: Ellen

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 11:53 PM

GliderCENTRAL would like to thank all that contributed to this study. Every penny was needed. DR. D. did this out of the goodness of her heart. This study was estimated to cost 25,000 dollars and or upward. And she did this for us at a much less cost. Dr. Thomas accepted no moneys as did anyone else. The money was spent on lab test and other needed test for the study as well as the food, which was actually donated to the study.

My heart is singing that we may be getting closer to what these little ones need, and at the same time as Tom said it is totally broken for the ones that crossed the bridge.

I was at the airport when they were picked up and helped set them up. Dr. Thomas actually made house calls to check on them once a week or more. The drive is 45min long. Thanks DR. T. OH! And she was at the airport when they were shipped back.

DR. D.. is continuing on with studies that make take time but does not want to quit. She is using animals from a place they do not have to be shipped and are monitored 24/7 by people and camera.

But thanks to our members that donated money for this first study she has now continuing on her own.

I think at this point until I hear different I will be not be changing anything with my diet which is the BML.

Thank you all again, and thank you Tom for keeping "the books" and doing all that you did.

Ellen
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/02/06 11:58 PM

Thanks for the PDF!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 12:41 AM



I think what it has done is quite the opposite - it has actually removed some of the guessing. [/quote]


Thomas Edison said much the same, after failing several hundred times, that " I have not failed 1100 times, I have found 1100 ways NOT to make a lightbulb..."
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 01:03 AM

I love that quote Shaun! smile Makes me smile every time I hear it.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 01:24 AM

aproductof, true. I don't think rushing out and changing diets that gliders have been on and are healthy and have always been would make any sense.

There are many diets that are "proven". However, the only proven diet to me is the one my gliders will eat, remain healthy and live very long and active lives.

The vitamins/calcium concerns me inso that gliders are getting overdosed with too many. Remember, even humans do not need to take extra vitamins IF they eat a good diet. Taking vitamins doesn't make up for anything, vitamins are a supplementation for people/animals who are ill or improperly nurished.

Read labels on everything you feed your gliders and you'll see how much they are getting of any one thing. Vitamin C is one I worry about. Iron is another.

Besides, changing a gliders diet can be detrimental to their health if not done correctly.

Something else really concerns me about the study. One being like said above that only 9 gliders were participated in the study.

The gliders were taken from their home they were used to and put with strangers and a strange invironment. Their diets were changed (at least 6 of them). They were flown not once but twice.

We hear and read all the time that CHANGE is not good for gliders. Those gliders went through extreme changes.

Other than the actual bloodwork done on those gliders, I personally am inclined to ignore the rest as I (again, personally believe) those gliders were under too much stress and that will affect health drastically either being an animal OR a human.

These are my opinions. I'm not telling anyone what to do or not to do as everyone should make their own choices. No one can tell me what to do with my suggies (well, they can, but I won't change a thing unless I absolutely know why I should) and I don't think people will be careless and go changing their diets because of the report.

More studies are needed IMO. I only pray the next studies are not quite so extensive as changing locale, diet and people they love. It would make more sense to find suggies that are already ON the diets in question and test those.

I will admit that I would never be involved though as taking blood alone is a huge stress on gliders as is the anesthesia.

IMO, I would hope that the studies in Australia with their captive gliders would bring more and better idea to us and make available as to what suggies really need.
Posted By: Xglider

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 02:16 AM

I think it is important to remember that this is one of the first studies that some of us have read… I am one… and may be one of the first scientifically published studies on Gliders in America associated with currently ‘proven’ diets…

I am sure Mikey could say this better … {{ OMG what am I starting ? shakehead ? }}

But science needs to be repeated … - > ONE studies does not prove anything…

This IS a step in the right direction… I applaud everyone involved…
clap
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 04:44 AM

LOL! Where's Mikey?!! smile
Posted By: USMom

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 05:18 AM

There is nothing better than to have information. Even if it is incomplete, we know more than we did yesterday. So, I am thankful for the information. Thank you guys for getting it out to us.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 05:23 AM

So advice is to stay with the BML diet until further investigation?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 05:30 AM

It was way long but very informative. I'll probably go back and read it another dozen times though. The only thing I am going to tweak in my Suncoast Diet is to reduce the amount of calcium and iron by a little. Nothing drastic. I always thought that those 2 elements may have been a little high. Other than that I'm good to go. I am going to take a copy of the study to my vet to see what he thinks.
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 05:43 AM

It seems like the most valuable parts of this paper come in the dietary analyses and the caloric recommendations. I agree that suggies under stress are not ideal for study, but it is hard to do with an animal that is as sensitive to its surroundings as are sugar gliders.
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 05:48 AM

Whoops! I hadn't seen that someone else posted the pdf. BUT here is another article on suggies from the same journal, about their general care.

Attached File
4249-Glidersgeneral.pdf  (40 downloads)
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 06:11 AM

Okay-this will drive me nuts now. What happened to the glider removed from the diet A study because of Self Mutilation???? frown Haven't finished the rest yet.
Posted By: Ellen

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 06:25 AM

He is doing great. FIFLE is his name now and he had to had his tail amputed as it was broken when he got here. But is the life of the party now. Dr. T. took him and he is her baby. I will tell her you asked about him.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 06:30 AM

Thank you Miss Ellen!!! jump I would have gone home and had nighmares tonight-lol. Happens every time a SM drops off the board and I don't know what happened...you know my heart is all wrapped up in those little ones! Tell them to give him a kiss from me (wish I could give them all one), K? smile I'm so glad he's doing okay!
Posted By: Ellen

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 06:35 AM

I will tell her. I saw him a few days ago and he is a very little glider but eats like a piggy. And he would love a kiss. LOL he loves to give them too. He is a cutie. That what love will do. He really turned around and I think he thinks he is a human little boy lol.
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 03:19 PM

JT, since I didn't see anyone had answered you yet, yes, stay with the BML smile
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 03:45 PM

Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth in also.
First of all I want to THANK all of those who were involved with doing the study. I commemorate your time, efforts, love, and concern given to these little angels! I'm so sorry for the ones that passed over the rainbow
bridge...never knowing why is so sad, but always know that they all were our "Little Heros'"
My background has been in the field of(medical) research for years. I understand the totality of specifics, findings, results, and most of all the importance of "triplicating" During all of our studies each one needed to be tripled, this is quite costly and time consuming....but the results are usually (90%) accurate. One study doesn't make the true result. However, an initial study can set a guideline (baseline). So hopefully in time we can all pull together and help fund future studies. I'm interested in knowing more each day on what we can do to prevent unnecessary illnesses both physically and psychologically on our little angles.
If there is another study in the future, I would love to contribute in some way to help no matter what it maybe.
Again, Thank all of you for doing a remarkable job!!!!!
God Bless heart
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 08:44 PM

I am so happy to have see that this type of study was done & my printer is busy printing for me right now. I have never felt 100% sure about diet since getting my gliders & wish I felt better about giving them the best I can.

This is a step in the right direction & I for one am read grateful. It is sad to hear about the poor babies who got ill though. The extreme downside of studies.

I will be anxious to see more of those questions answered.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 08:50 PM

:oftopShaunG, that wuote is funny! I've never heard it, but it's a great way to look at things! thumb
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 08:50 PM

hmmm, maybe I should preview my posts...NAH! smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... *DELETED* - 11/03/06 08:58 PM

Post deleted by sil
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 09:01 PM

Oops -did not seemto take the first time so I re-entered and now have 2 posts. Please ignore the second one or maybe someone can tell me how to delete?


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/03/06 09:48 PM

Chaungo1, you are da bomb!!!!! I just printed the article using your attachment. I can't wait to get reading and learning! This is SOOOOO awesome.... thanks to everyone. dance thumb jump
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diet Study Breaking News... - 11/06/06 05:30 PM

WOW very interesting. I'm at an internet cafe right now and I'm pressed for time (my internet has been down at home for days) but I want to post when my internet is back up.

I did manage to print up the pdf file and have looked it over. lol I'm going to be droning over it for hours tonight, I'm sure. There's a lot of great stuff, and I have a few comments on the study and questions, as well. My brain is currently barfing from all the things I want to say, but I may have to wait to unload. frown

Overall, thank you to all who made this study possible. Though I agree the sample size is quite small (as well as a few other possible avenues for error), it's still good to see at least something in a scientific direction conducted here in North America towards glider nutrition. Judging from even the abstract, they referred to good sources (i.e. immediately I recognized the whole abstract to be basically a summary and reiteration of primary sections in Marsupial Nutrition) and the methodologies seemed straight forward and effective in concluding what the study sought to conclude. It's certainly invaluable and a great leap forward in finally discovering that Womberoo HP is perhaps the bes.... *cough*... Just kidding... I mean... discovering great things regarding diet and nutrition for our captive gliders here in N.A.! Forward march!

laugh

Great quote Shaun!

Mikey dance
© 2021 GliderCENTRAL