GliderCENTRAL

Help my intro is not going as planned!

Posted By: Damiana

Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/20/10 12:28 AM

so let me start from the beginning;
I have had my 1yr 5month old female's cage setting beside my 6month old neutered males cage. They have been side by side for about 3 months because of neuter issues...

I first tried intro. in the tub with toys, fleece & mealies every where. My Female jumped out of the tub did not say hi but for a near second. I tried 3 time's to put her in the tub she did not like it so I gave up that night. I gave them a couple weeks before second intro since my male was healing from his neuter...

we tried this outside her cage and she went inside and chirped for my male to come in. I sat there and watched my male rub his chest and head on everything and the female would rub over the spots he did, everything seemed fine. Then she got sick of him rubbing him self all over her pouch she nipped him ran off then came an nipped him again while she sat in a ball like shape I took my male from her grasp and stopped intro that night it lasted 15minutes.

Then Last night I tried once more this time in his cage after a really good pressure was and a good rub down to make sure there were no smells left on any part of the cage. I put a new cage set inside as well that niether one has ever used.

They both went inside the pouch. He rubbed his head on her head for about 15min. then they got out ran around not really interacting with each other. He went back into the pouch she fallowed. She rolled onto her back looked at him while he was sniffing her cloaca, then She started lunging and bitting at his face repeatedly, No blood was drawn. Even with me pushing each glider to one side of the pouch while removing the other she still tried to bite. I let her cool off tried again in her cage where she seemed to feel most comfy. and well here is the video's on what happend. Kisuke the male is the WFB and Tiva is the female the standard grey.

the video's are a little dark. For some reason photobucket makes them darker looking. If you want to see a better one pm me thank you.

The first video is of them meeting in her cage after their first spat.
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...elastattack.mp4

This one is of the last time I tried intro with him in my hand and he is clicking at her when they touch noses
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...etingSativa.mp4

I am starting to thing they are not a good match for each other. cry
I am torn inside on what to do.

Plus this is my first time introducing a male to a female I have only introduced female to female successfully in the past and when they both turned a yr old they stopped liking one another as much and the female that I want to pair with my male is from that group of gliders that I had to separate.....

Any advice helps at this point I will try anything......
Posted By: B19

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/20/10 12:51 AM

aww I'm sorry intro's are not going good for you! Have you tried switching their pouches and toys back and forth from each cage to get use to each other's smell that way? Sorry, I don't know what to tell you, I've never experienced intros not going well. Someone else will be along shortly and give you more advice! Good luck!
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/20/10 12:56 AM

Yes I have switched their pouches back and forth in the cages plus the toys.

My male stopped scenting like he was before he was neutered. I can't even smell him any more....

My female scents like if she is a male... For the last month or so she has decided not to sleep in her pouches only her wheel so every morning I have a tissy fight with her trying to get her to sleep in a pouch clean or all scented up.

So I rub his stuff on her wheel if I can't get her to bed....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/20/10 05:25 AM

Your introducing in a neutral place the bathroom which Is a good idea but you shouldn't have any food involved because they might fight over it and nothing should have eachothers sent on it try not putting a cage set in or pouches just the two gliders somewhere neutral territory like the bathroom and have a towel or shirt prepared to break up a fight of it happens.
I'm having the same problem introducing mine they just don't get along:/
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/20/10 08:59 AM

When I had to do my first intro, I was so tense and had no idea how to go about. With some research and help from a friend, I started the process and wanted to give up several times, but with patience and dedication together with the correct procedures, my gliders became best of friends in a period of 4 months.

Some introductions may never be successful, however, it is rare and only in extreme situations. Mostly intros are successful. While introducing my two males, I found that I needed even more patience than with the bonding process. Tiny spats are normal in the beginning.

I was not able to see anything on your video, sorry. During introductions you need to be stress free, they will feel what you feel and will also respond in that way. Be patient!!! They may become friends instantly, or they may attack each other at first. As I mentioned above, intro’s may take a while and can be extremely simple or a long and slow process. Don’t rush anything and take it at their pace. If you need to, take two steps backwards in order to move one step forward. Gliders may get seriously hurt when they fight and can kill each other. Don't overwhelm the cages with toys. You want them to be curious about each other. If introductions fail the first time around, try again, however, if they ball up and fight, I would reconsider.
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/20/10 12:19 PM

From the ears down, the looking warily around and the tense, extremely slow movements plus unwillingness to leave your hand, it shows your glider is not ready to do intros. They are in the "Fight or Flight" mode and are not comfortable at all. It can take several months to intro gliders to each other. You've been given some excellent advice on intros. The only thing left is to be patient and give them more time.

Good luck and breathe! smile
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/20/10 11:58 PM

my male in the video was just attacked a few minutes before the video camera got up and running and he started acting slow after she bite him really hard in the middle of his head. other wise what you didn't get to see is he is more then ready for a buddy he chirps and clicks all happily and trys to just groom and love on her but not after she bite him he seems unsure of her since she will not respond to him when he talks to her. The female is the one that seems up set about the whole thing. She want's a buddy one minute and doesn't the next.
which brings me to my next question;

I restarted at step one with intro. they are in different rooms away from one another. I am guessing a week of them apart would be good before I start swapping pouches again so on and so forth.

I have heard in the past that it is harder to pair a older glider with a younger glider. Why is this? my brain is on pause and I can't remember for the life of me. frown
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/21/10 01:40 PM

Your female is older than the neutered male, correct? If this is the case, I don't see why it should be a problem, dunno maybe I am missing something.
Posted By: tjlong

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/21/10 03:24 PM

I am the breeder for Mistie's boy who she is trying to introduce. He is a very sweet little guy and I know that Mistie is doing everything she can think of and has used the usual methods suggested for intros.

For some reason her girl is just not accepting him. tant She does for a few minutes then goes back into an aggressive mode. I had suggested she pull them completely away from each other and put their cages in separate rooms for a while and then start the process all over.

I recently did an into and it went very well until I put them into a brand new neutral cage. When I did then the male froze and was scared to death for several hours. I kept checking on them and found him in a floor toy (which I realized after the fact I shouldn't have put into the cage at all for the first few nights). When I finally coaxed him out I put them back into a cage that had both their scent on it from trading back and forth. Then they were fine! I guess it just goes to show all gliders accept things in different ways and it really is a trial and error process we go through. dunno

I say take a break from the intros and then start again in a few weeks! agree
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/21/10 11:19 PM

Both my glider's have been in separate rooms for 2 nights now tonight will be the third. My female has barked all night long each night so far, my male has not responded back to her and he seems still happy as a clam.

Like my breeder said he is super sweet never met a glider like him. He could almost let me do just about anything to him and he just loves the attention.
Now the female she is a little shy slightly timed at times but coming around it has taken her 1 1/2yrs to get her to trust but she was also a pet store baby so she had little good human contact before I got her.
unlike Kisuke my male that comes from a very responsible breeder that give's lots of love and devotion to him before I got him just as she does with all her gliders smile I am so lucky you found me Tracy again THANK YOU!

sorry got a little off topic but I wanted everyone to understand the temperament I am dealing with each glider. I would like to have there intro go better for next time in a few weeks or so. But the more idea's that anyone can come up with on how or what just maybe work for me since I am having a bit of trouble.

Thank you all for refreshing my memory on the steps of how to do intro's there must be one I am missing or not doing correctly.
All twists and tricks anyone had to do that's not posted please let me know because it's great to hear how other's did intro's. You never know they just might help me and many other's that may be having this same issue.
Posted By: victoriarose1982

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/22/10 12:28 AM

Hey Misty I was wondering have you tried a double bonding pouch??? A pouch with 2 sections that has a divider in the middle?
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/22/10 12:34 AM

No I have not tried a double bonding pouch. But I see how that would be beneficial.
Do you know anyone that makes them?
If not maybe I can give it a wirl and see if I can make one or something similar to it.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/22/10 12:39 AM

You might want to try and contact 'queenduck' she makes what is called the MatchMaker pouch which is a double sided pouch.
Posted By: tjlong

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/22/10 12:52 AM

Mistie can borrow my MatchMaker sissy if she wants. agree I want Kisuke to be happy. smile
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/22/10 02:45 AM

Thank you so much Tracy you are a wonderful person.
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/22/10 07:58 AM

That is a great idea Rachel. idea I have forgotten that I used a double bonding pouch myself. I am hoping this will work out for you Misty. hug2 Keep us posted. thumb
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/31/10 04:11 PM

UPDATE;

tonight I am going to start swapping their pouches. I believe they both are ready I haven't heard any calls come from either one of them the last 2 nights and my female is actually sleeping in her pouch again, but she still gets up and goes to her wheel in the middle of the day but at least she has some change going on smile

Kisuke is still being a little sweet heart and he has gotten much larger in the last 2 weeks. His head is now larger round the my thumb it takes 2 of my thumbs to make the size of his head!!! and I have to hold him with both hands now my hands are to small to hold him lol
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 07/31/10 05:26 PM

laugh Sounds like you are ready too! thumb Good luck and let us know how everything is going.
Posted By: tjlong

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/02/10 06:13 PM

Mistie, How is it going? I hope the matchmaker pouch helps! I really want your gliders to bond to each other! Kisuke is such a sweetie I hope it works! I would love to see new pics of him now he is growing up!
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/02/10 11:39 PM

since I only have swapped the pouches for three nights now I am going to start using the double bonding pouch tomorrow and see how it goes I will let you all know as soon as that happens.
Tiva has not been sleeping in kisuke's pouch much only for a few minutes here and there... She rather stay in her wheel I am going to have to remove her wheel and make her sleep in there. So stubborn she is frown

I will post picture's of kisuke soon wink
Posted By: tjlong

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/02/10 11:47 PM

Quote:
I will post picture's of kisuke soon


clap thumb clap
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/03/10 09:48 AM

I am hoping since you are taking it real slow that things will work out just great with the bonding. hug2

Keep us posted!
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/12/10 02:23 PM

So far I have been swapping there pouches every day, but Tiva still rather sleep in her wheel I have taken it away during the day time and she freaked out! for 2 hours while I was cleaning the house she ran around her cage looking for her wheel she would not sleep in nothing. So I decided to give her a smaller wheel and hoped she would not like that to sleep in. well that day she slept in his pouch I had in there but the next day she went back to sleeping in her wheel again.... She kicks out all of the blankets of I give her some of his while she is sleeping in her wheel to. or she will go sleep under her wheel instead.

I don't know what to do at this point to get her to sleep in a pouch of any kind.

I am trying out a sugar comb with her and hope she will sleep in that!

I tried the double bonding pouch they dont seem to mind being side by side but man do they toss and turn a lot before settling in I am doing double bonding pouch all day today I hope this helps to.

well here is some new updated long over do pictures of kisuke. Tiva hates the camera so I try not to bug her sorry soon enough I will have some of her wink




Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/12/10 02:43 PM

Awwwwwwwwwww!!!!! Precious!
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/12/10 02:48 PM

Soooooo cute! laugh
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/12/10 04:34 PM

Awe, that is very cute!
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/16/10 01:37 PM

Thank you everyone he is a cutie!
back on topic;

I have been using the double sided bonding pouch Tracy is letting borrow for a week now.

Both the glider's do just fine in it. No crabbing at each other. Tiva still shows no interest in him even with him that close to her.

He trys to sniff and make clicking sounds at her but she still gives no reply back.

To be completely honest I kinda feel uneasy about doing intro because she seems so distant. I say this because in the last 2 days she has started crabbing at me again but does nothing to back her crab but she won't crab in the double sided pouch or after picking her up.


so confusing someone please help!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/17/10 09:48 AM

I wish I could help you with some advice. I haven't had to do intros YET. I am sure someone else will be along with more advice. I would just keep taking it slow for now.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/17/10 01:35 PM

I know someone brought up the ages earlier but sometimes it is just hard to have the younger ones accepted by the older ones. Not sure why it is that way but I got a 7mo. old and it took me a few months to do intos and a few "kid" fights. No damage just boundrie setting but now they do well.

Keep at it you are doing good, the bonding pouch is a start. Sounds like your little girl may need more of the one on one to settle down and maybe that will help some. JMO
Posted By: oakley

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/17/10 02:06 PM

I'd like to try to help you out a bit, and my information is from my experience only, so please take it with a grain of salt and do what's best for you.


I have introduced a number of gliders, some intros went smoothly, others were difficult, and one (only one) didn't work out at all.


Here is what I have learned with intros:

-The female is almost ALWAYS the one that has to accept the male. For some reason, if there is going to be crabbing/lunging, it will come from the female, she is the aggressor.

-The male generally plays the non-dominant role. He will approach the female, get lunged at, and then recede. He will not crab, attack, or show any aggression.


If your female and male are acting like this, than I believe that they (ie SHE) have to have time to accept each other. As long as the male is not engaging in the agressive action (ie attacking her and balling up in a fight) I would let them share a cage for however long it takes for them to get along.


You said your male was not injured, this is normal. The female's bark is worse than her bite. In all of my intros, I have had only one injury and that was a small nip that occurred in the one pair that did not work out (the male showed aggression and they balled up every time I tried to intro them)




Pouch swapping, matchmaking in bonding pouches, tent time, etc are great, but there comes a time where you just have to put the two together, step back (not too far to intervene if absolutely necessary) and relax. It is imperative NOT to intervene. There are only two reasons for intervention on your part:

1. The male shows aggression towards the female (usually results in balling up for more than 2 seconds)

2. Either glider is injured in any way (bitten, nail caught on something etc.)



That's my 2¢ for ya. Intros can be scary, but as long as you stay calm, everything should work out just fine.



If you would like to speak with me on the phone, PM me and I'll send you my phone # wink


Good luck!
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/17/10 07:58 PM

Thank you Meghan!

your advise hits right on the money with how everything is going with my 2 gliders. I am going to do this nice and slow so I am going to do intro with them in a week, that is also when I get my new cage in the mail I ordered for them.

so I am going to cross my fingers!

wish me luck!
Posted By: oakley

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/17/10 08:56 PM

Crossing my fingers for you, call me if you have any questions!
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/22/10 06:53 PM

ok last night Tiva was finally showing interest in Kisuke!!!!!

I put there cages closer together they were started at 10ft away from one another for a week and now they are side by side 12in apart!

Here is 6 video's of the barking scoop scoop sound Tiva was making and Kisuke is clicking which you can't really hear him all to well because he is running up and down the side of the cage and he also is doing the light hissing sound after she barks in some video's. Please let me know what you all think this means?

Yes they are side by side stairing at each other while talking!
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...rrent=TiKis.mp4
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...urrent=TKis.mp4
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...;current=TK.mp4
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...ent=KisuTIV.mp4
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...urrent=KisT.mp4
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...;current=KT.mp4


My hubby kept telling me lets let them play together I didn't know if it was a good idea but maybe tonight they can meet if she still is just as interested.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/23/10 01:35 PM

Hey Misty, I will be making a trip to Sisters soon to get Maya and Primo, if you want I can stop by and help. smile

Just let me know and I will make arrangements to come by. Dont give up and you are doing great so far! hug2
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/23/10 09:02 PM

I might consider your offer Chels depending on how toinight goes.
We have decide it's time for intro :}

After all the barks, clicks, soft hisses and how interested they are at this very moment I think it's time.

I am so excited I hope it all goes smooth! I have found over 20 Real four leaf clover's in my yard and by the river in the last couple months so I hope all this good fortune I have stored up and saved counts!!!

Cross your fingers everybody!!!
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/24/10 04:49 AM

UPDATE!!!

my intro went better then the last few times awhile back. We did it on the floor next to both their cages. with toys, yoggies for a treat, and even set up both their carriers as play area's amongst other stuff.

Tiva went an sniffed kisuke gave him a small licky kiss on his cheek then retreated to her cage my hubby kept bringing her back out to show her it was ok to be outside the cage with us she has issues with leaving her safe zone but she did really well and became curious and watched us play with kisuke.

We would bring her back out and she would do her routine again check everything out see kisuke and then go home and give us that look come in here not out there she would come to the edge of her cage and try to grab the husbands shirt to get attention really cute I think.

While this hide and play routine of Tiva's lasted about 30minutes and kisuke was busy rubbing himself on everything she would touch to busy to pay attention to much of what was going on around him but he kept a eye on her and let her do things at her pace I think he learned from last time not to just go for it.

We will stick to this routine and the double bonding pouch use during the day for a little while until they both get use to the idea of us having them both out together and till we get them to know one another better. so far so good!

But baby steps seem the best way to go with my girl since she is so shy and Kisuke is just ready and waiting.

I will keep you all posted and hope to get video one of these times smile
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/25/10 08:17 PM

Last night intro went really well agian!!

But I would like everyones opinion on how tiva was acting. She kept coming in an out of her cage to run around and see kisuke but finally kisuke no longer just wanted to rub on what ever tiva touched he decide to play tag but tiva kept trying to get him to fallow her into her cage... I am not sure if I should allow him to go into her territory.....

what do you all think??? should I allow him to fallow her into her cage???
Posted By: heidi

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/25/10 10:35 PM

let him follow her..keep a close eye on them..add extra stuff in her cage pouches,vines ect....lrt them play hide and seek and tag...let them talk dont get nervous at every lil sound ..just watch closely for fighting..it sounds like you are doing a great job..keep up the great work and soon you will have a happy family
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/27/10 03:26 PM

jump jump Intro went Fantastic jump jump

Tiva is a rough groomer, I think she is out of practice but as you can see Kisuke doesn't mind his new love heart sorry it's kinda blurry the blurriness fits the moment perfectly!


Here is the video!!!!
http://s954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/...nt=P8260578.mp4

The funniest thing happened after I got done recording them. Tiva went outside the pouch behind it and kisuke came out to see where she went and to his surprise he did not realize how close she was...... Faster then a glimpse of my eye he jumped back wards 2 1/2 feet out of the cage landing on all fours beside my feet, As he looked up he gave this baby face like HOLY COW HOW DID I GET OUT HERE!!!! AWWWW I picked him up put him back up where tiva was but he scared himself so bad he could not handle intro time anymore all he wanted to do was go sulk in his own cage and stair at Tiva.
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 08/27/10 03:49 PM

roflmao roflmao roflmao Just giggling about what happened AFTER the fact! LOLOL Very funny!

So glad intros went well! Yayyy!
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/01/10 01:42 PM

My intro is still going AWESOME!

They are back together this morning playing, grooming, showing who is dominant by jumping on top of each other's back & grabbing an trying to hold on tight lol

If they don't go to sleep soon I will separate them since there bed time is getting closer an I am feeling a little sleepy from my oral surgery so I won't be able to stay up and watch them.

Tonight I am going to let them be together all night!!
I think it is time smile I say this because they have had a total of 10 intro's and it seems time to let nature take it's course.

Do you all think it maybe time for them to stay the whole night together also???
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/01/10 01:57 PM

I am so happy to hear things are going so well with the intro's! clap

It is hard to say when they are ready. You are there with them, and you know them best. It's your call. If you feel it is time, it probably is, and then you should try it. If you feel uncomfortable in any way, wait a bit longer.
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/01/10 02:06 PM

Thank you for the advice Gizmogirl!

I will let you know how things go tonight since I do feel the time is right just not this morning since I am the only one home and will be going back to sleep soon and not sure if I will be able to hear them since I am pain medicated right now
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/01/10 02:10 PM

Good idea, you get your rest first. thumb Good luck, have fun and keep us posted.
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/02/10 02:10 AM

When I have woken up from my naps today I would put Kisuke back into Tiva's cage so they could sleep together off and on while I am in and out of it lol

So far so good one squable but it lasted half a second lol they seem very happy sleeping together right now they are still together so I think tonight might go really well for their first night together!

I will keep you all posted and let you know how everything turns out I will also try to get some pictures or video to show off then new couple some more smile
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/02/10 06:59 PM

Last night went great for the suggies all nighter together!

They both played tag, groomed, ate together, shared food, hide & seek, etc..:)

mlove dance jump I am happy to announce that my introduction of Tiva at 1 1/2yrs old female to Kisuke at 7 months old neutered male are now cage mates for the rest of their live's!!! mlove dance jump

THANK YOU EVERYONE! for your support, guidance and helpfulness smile

Tracy I think I couldn't have done this without borrowing your double bonding sissy pouch. Thank You! I will bring your pouch to you when I come to the NWSGG in a couple weeks!
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/03/10 07:21 AM

jump This is wonderful news! jump What a great feeling when things finally work out. I am happy for you! hug2
Posted By: Damiana

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/04/10 09:02 PM

Each night has been so awesome to see both my glider's having fun playing together and being able to have them out together is one of the most rewarding points!

To be honest I was so worried I would never get them to be cage mates but it's true with time and lots of patients you can succeed and I guess the worse part was for me was getting me to feel relaxed around them during intro. That played a big part after I finally got my feelings under control.

Again thank you everyone for your support!

I hope this thread can help many other's with there intro's
Posted By: tjlong

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/04/10 11:29 PM

clap dance clap

Congrats!

clap dance clap
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Help my intro is not going as planned! - 09/05/10 08:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Damiana
Each night has been so awesome to see both my glider's having fun playing together and being able to have them out together is one of the most rewarding points!

jump jump

To be honest I was so worried I would never get them to be cage mates but it's true with time and lots of patients you can succeed and I guess the worse part was for me was getting me to feel relaxed around them during intro. That played a big part after I finally got my feelings under control.



So true! agree
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