Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider

Posted By: LSardou

Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 06/22/09 03:19 AM

See Part 4 here
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 06/22/09 03:36 AM

Sorry, busy weekend and I keep forgetting to update. Rowdy was still VERY upset even after 24 hours in the pouch. He would still lunge and crab like crazy. He has yet to take a licky treat from me, but as of this morning, no crabbing.

Erin, they came to me IN the family pouch from their previous home. I rubbed that pouch all over the inside and outside of the pouch protective pouch, and I felt bad for them and gave them a blankie from the family pouch too.

I know he is scared because of all of the sudden changes in his small little life. But I HAVE to do something drastic. I can't send a striking, biting non-stop-crabbing glider to an excited 12 year old on her birthday. Not when I KNOW he can be so sweet. I sincerely believe this little guy needed an intervention. For his own good! The new family is not equipped to handle him so upset, and I think a new glider family would give up on him, so I am helping him.
Posted By: SugareeErin

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 06/22/09 03:53 AM

Good luck Robin! I hope they calm down and settle in soon, sounds like he starting to clap I'll look for updates on how the little guys are doing smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 06/23/09 07:18 PM

Well, he had a halfway decent day yesterday. He still won't take licky treats from me, and he still lunges and crabs, even from the pp pouch. I offered both boys their bonding pouch yesterday and they crawled in, then I had the little grouchy bunz wrapped in his family smelling blankie and he chittered at me, but didn't crab a lot. So I stuffed him in my bra where he slept for a good 2 hours. Today when I put them in the bonding pouch, grouchy boy crabbed, leaped out of the pouch and took off across the house... TWICE! UGH! I don't know what to do. But at least he hasn't bitten anyone again. He lunges but does not make contact.
Posted By: DeeDancer

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 06/24/09 06:08 PM

I dunno Robin, sounds to me like you are moving a little fast for him. When is he moving on to his new family?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 06/24/09 06:17 PM

Friday Dee... and yeah, I am rushing him. I'm about to call you.
Posted By: DeeDancer

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 06/24/09 06:43 PM

Sorry I couldn't have been more help Robin, the time constraint makes things difficult. I called Bourbon, she's going to give you a call-she had some better insight. Keep us updated!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 07/26/09 06:39 PM

well, i've learned a lot from these five parts of success stories about your gliders, and i have to leave my concerns, because i'm not sure if my baby girl is pouch protective or is just still in the stages of earing my trust...this is my first glider, so i'm glad you guys are here to help!!!

i have a white faced/possible lion suggie named lilo, and she's about 10 weeks OOP. this is the beginning of my third week with her, and i'm hitting a brick wall. i love her to death and really want to be able to take her out of the cage and play with her more often, but she's just being so nasty when i go to take her out in her pouch. just her pouch...if she sleeps in this hanging tent that i got with her cage set, there's no problems. she crabs of course, but it's not as bad. but when she's in her tent, i can just put my hand next to it and she gets all up in arms. she crabs, she lunges, she does this squealy crab sound with a lunge...and this is when i don't even have my hand near the hooks by the cage!!! i could just touch the edge of the pouch and she goes bonkers!

i've taken her out of the cage in the tent and she crabs with every step down the stairs and walking to the chair. when i sit down, she gives me the evil eye, crabs, but calms down and just curls up where i have my hand mlove it's amazing. the other day, she crawled out of the tent and started to explore my house! we got her back in the cage and i immediately emailed her breeder, who recommended tent time. we were able to get her out of the cage successfully in the tent and brought her into the bonding tent, let her come out, and the two of us had such a good time. she crawled up my arms, sniffed at my hair, crawled on my head (it felt like a spider!!!), and leaped around. she got really upset when i tried to take her picture, so i put the camera was so upsetting, she was so cute!!!

but the minute she got flustered when other members of my family peeked near the entrance of the tent, she immediately found a pocket hanging from the edge of the tent and started getting all crabby and lunging at me again. i lured her out with a yogurt drop (her favorites), and tried to block her from access with a fleece blankie tucked in there. no success. about five minutes later she was back in there crabbing up a storm. so i lured her back into her hanging tent and put her back into her cage, figuring that was enough for the day.

i went in this morning to take her out before work, and she was back in her pouch and wouldn't let me get her out!!! this is so frustrating! tant is she pouch protective, because from what i've read here, it sure seems like it. she was doing great, and i feel like we're taking steps back because of her attitude in her pouch.

i followed the beginning ideas of bourbon's steps and took everything out she could hide in but her hammock (i can't get a PPP-the website's under construction cry) and made the hammmock in a v shape, but i had to leave her pouch in there cause she was still being all snippy. see, if i don't go near her pouch when she's in it, she's fine. the minute i start to touch her pouch, oh the alarms go off. suggie style, of course smile

so, i'm stuck. officially. i don't know what to do. i want to play with my girl more and take her out in her pouch and not have to rely on this little tent, but to be honest with you...she scares me when she gets all upset!!! she lunges and squealcrabs (that's the only way i can describe it. she does this really high pitched crab and lunges at my fingers...ugh, she's so snobby!!). she even peeks out of her pouch, gives me the dirtiest look and makes her crabbing as personal as she possibly can (actually, when she does that, it kinda makes me giggle...she looks me square in the eye and just lets me know that she's angry! roflmao). but what annoys me the most is that when she calms down, she's wonderfully fine! i just can't touch her in the pouch. she'll take yogurt drops from me, but it's always a lunge-grab-go back into my protective pouch sequence. sometimes it's a lunge-sniff-grab-go back into the pouch, but that's rare

sorry this post was so long, but any advice you guys have is greatly appreciated. thanks so much.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 07/27/09 02:22 AM

I think you're making some excellent progress, don't despair! The best thing you can do if you are using Bourbon's methods, is to call Bourbon. SGGA was this weekend but I'm sure she won't be hard to get ahold of in the next couple of days.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 07/27/09 03:36 AM

oh good. i did take out the pouch and she got a little upset, but is sleeping happily in her hammock now. we had tent time tonight and she got a little mad at me and didn't want to come out, but we made progress.

i'm going to give her a good two to three days sleeping in the hammock. she didn't crab at me at all when i walked next to her cage now that's she's free of her old friend, the pouch. at least i'm not doing anything wrong...i was so worried!!
Posted By: SugareeErin

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider - 07/27/09 05:19 AM

Hi Kate! Congrats on your new little one! Since she is so new its hard to say if she is really pouch protective,but that may be the case. Your doing good job with her, sounds like the hammock is helping. What I did with mine was to gradually close the pouch over time. If Shadow did not crab at all on a day, it went in one notch, if he did, I expanded it. I would go about it this way vs just suddenly replacing the pouch, because she will probably just go back to crabbing if you don't adjust her to the pouch first. You could try just petting her in the hammock until she has gained your trust more. If you can get her to come to you with a treat that is great! Visit the cage often and talk to her and pet her so she becomes more accustom to you. Don't take her hammock out when you are petting her, hang it near the door so you can reach right in and pet her.

I see you are learning her body language, which is excellent! Good job getting to know your baby! There are always suttle signs that they are going to crab or bite. Respect her feelings and do not to let her get to that worked up crabbing scared point. If she looks like she is stressed or upset I would back off (unless you are petting her, then keep your hand over her until she learns crabbing won't make you go away). It can be a slow process bonding but if you move to fast you have to take two steps back. It's important not to push her too fast b/c it only slows down the process. Just be patient, she is already coming around! Every glider is different and some take longer than others.

Don't be afraid of her, because she will pick up on that and it will add to her fear. Just try to keep her (and yourself) calm and content and she soon will be ready to come out and play with you happily. You both just need some more time to adjust learn to trust each other. Remember bonding and trust works both ways! Don't let her fear scare you, she needs you to be a calm protector.

I waited a while before doing tent time with Shadow, until I could pick him up and carry him to the tent in my hands. She must have enjoyed tent time, but she needs to be calm when you bring her into the tent. Maybe you can bring her in the hammock? Good luck with the little one, keep us posted. Getting her a friend may also be helpful to calm her down, and she will be happier having a buddy.

Posted By: DeeDancer

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glide - 07/27/09 07:35 PM

Hi Kate,

I actually do not think this glider is pouch protective. However, that does not mean that these steps will not help you to gain her trust.

You seem to be frustrated by your glider's behavior and the fact that she is not coming around as quickly as you would like her to.

One very important point I would like to make here is that gliders CAN and DO pick up on our emotions. When you feel frustrated with her, she can tell and this affects her behavior. For this reason, it is important for you to keep your emotions in check around your glider.

I know that you love your glider and you want her to love you as much as you love her. However...are you sure that you are doing what SHE wants? Our initial actions with our gliders are almost always based on how YOU feel and what YOU think.

A huge portion of this is actually helping the owner (in this case, you) to see the world through the eyes of the glider. That is something that is not posted in these threads, so it really would be beneficial for you to call either myself or Bourbon. Both of our numbers are posted in our signatures, but for ease of access...

Mine: (702)250-5236
Bourbon's: (321)331-1608

Until you contact one of us, I can get you started with a little hypothetical situation that will help you to get into the mindset of your glider.

One of the first things we do is to sit back and start watching the gliders. We have to spend as much time getting to know them as they need to get to know us. During this time, we really want them to love us immediately. The truth is, though…why should they? Do they know you? Do they speak your language? Have they spent enough time with you to learn what your body language means, rather than what THEY perceive it as? NO? Well then we will just have to fix that now won't we?

Next is a hypothetical exercise, to get you to think about how your glider may feel about different situations. When it is over I want you to sit back and really think of anything you may have done or experienced (anxieties included). After reading this, it should make you sit back and say…okay now I know better and I can work on changing things. PRACTICE what you learn here.

The first thing I want you to do is start thinking as a glider, not as the owner.

It is very important to get into the mindset of your glider. A person that weighs 125 lbs is 700 times the size of a 100 gram glider. I don't know about you, but I can't even IMAGINE something 700 times my size! As a comparison, if you were a glider, your human would be 87,500 lbs. That's CRAZY, right? And on top of that, this 87,500 pound THING is not your species, does not speak your language, and does not understand your feelings.

Think of King Kong as your "owner". Imagine King Kong getting you and placing you in a little room with just one little window at the top (your pouch). You can look out the window, but there is nothing out there that is familiar to you. Life outside your little room is like nothing you have ever seen before. King Kong walks by your little room, makes some noises, and then reaches in to grab you. What do you feel? Fear? What defenses do you have against King Kong? Kicking, screaming, biting (lunging, crabbing, biting). They aren't going to do much damage, but you are SO scared that you have to try everything; you're running purely on instinct. Nothing is working, he might get frustrated and drop you, but he comes back at you and grabs you again.

What are you thinking? What do you think he is going to do? Do you think that he wants to be your friend? At this point, do you really care? Probably not…and do you really want to wait around to find out? You are so uncertain about what is going to happen to you it is overwhelming.

Then all of a sudden he gets you, puts you in a bag, and is carrying you out of your room! What are you thinking now? Where is he taking me? What is he doing? You're biting at the bag, but it's not working. You're not sure what is going to happen to you, it's overwhelming. Your heart is beating very fast, your body shakes with fear and your adrenaline is pumping...

Then he stops moving. Everything is calm. What is happening? What is he going to do? You can't see him. Are you going to be calm and wait to see what happens, or are you going to take the first chance you can to get away? He opens the bag, looks at you, and all you can see is his face. What are you really looking at? Are you watching his eyes? His mouth? He is making noises...what is he saying? Is he saying how delicious you look? You don’t know, and you’re terrified because, simply put, you don't want to be his breakfast, lunch or midnight marshmallow snack.

For as much as you know about monsters this size, they want to eat you. Why would he want to be friends with you? You have NOTHING in common at all; he doesn’t even speak your language. You think he wants to eat you, so you start screaming and kicking, scared to death. He is so big that you will have to be smart and quick…you have to get out before he eats you...

Here it comes, he puts his hand into your bag, but he hasn't touched you yet… Now what are you thinking? What do you think he is doing? What will you do or try now?

Some will choose to wait and see, some will choose to bite and continue to fight, some will try like heck to get out past his hand (remember, different people [gliders] act differently). This part can go in so many different directions, but I would try like heck to get as far away from him as possible, cause I KNOW in my head, he wants to eat me, and I am not ready to be his snack cake. I will bite first then when he stops, I will run as fast and as far as I can...I will do anything to stay away from him. What would you do? What would you think and why?

Self Preservation kicks in you bite him, run past his hand, run out, jump…do you care that you may get hurt? Do you care the area may be more dangerous than Godzilla is? Probably not. He tries to grab you, but you are too quick for him and get away. You run and hide, but he uncovers you and reaches for you. You run under something and he continues to come after you. Your heart is pounding so hard, you feel it in your throat. You run again, you climb up something he tries to grab you again. You run again, You jump, but….

Gawd, he catches you....he is holding you tight, you can't get away, You bite him, he puts you back in the bag, he closes it up tight..

You are moving, where is he taking you? What is going to do? Did you anger him? How are you feeling right now? Do you think he wants to be friends now? Probably not. What are you truly thinking? What are you feeling? What are your plans now?

He puts you back into your room. What do you do? What are you thinking? What are you going to do when he comes back? How are you going to act? put yourself now in the many situations, that you have placed your glider/gliders in attempts to teach them you want to be friends with them…situations where you have tried bonding with them, before you have given them a chance to trust you-before giving them a chance to get to know you and what your intentions truly are.

Are you getting the picture? Your glider is SCARED. You have been grabbing her out of her cage, grabbing her off of your neck, stuffing her into a bonding pouch when she doesn't want to be in one...etc. In order to gain her trust, you are going to have to SHOW her that she can trust you.

Also, you should be able to purchase a PP Pouch beginning tomorrow.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glide - 07/29/09 01:54 AM

thanks for all your responses guys!! this is really helpful!

like i said, i wasn't sure if she was pouch protective or just extremely terrified of me. but from what i can see from both of your responses, she's just one scared little suggie. i have to keep reminding myself it's only been almost two and a half weeks!!!

she's been sleeping in her hammock really well and the crabbing has gone down significantly. dance since the switch to the hammock, she's only crabbed once!!! woot! jump

ooh, petting might be a good next step. she still gives me the evil eye sometimes, but mostly it's a rather inquisitive little look on her face that makes me so happy because it's not angry and there's no noise, it's more of a "you're not going away, are you?" kind of look. smirk

i'll try petting her in the hammock next and see how that goes, and yes, i will definitely keep you posted. thanks
Posted By: Miai43

Re: Part 5 - Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glide - 11/08/09 11:32 PM

Where to start where to start. So i went to the Glider Gathering yesterday and met a lot of interesting people one of the lovely people was Bourbon. I have two rescue gliders Vincent and Jonny Rook (Rook for short) Vincent took to me rather quickly, once he came out of shock he brought blood a few times but i was determied to make him feel at home, it took a few months but he finally decided i was an ok human, no he comes to me without prompting at all. However his friend Rook is a different story. Because they were rescues Tiff and i don't know their backgrounds we think Rook and Vin were cage-mates but aside from that we don't know.
Sad to say I'm afrade of crabbing and nipping both of which Rook had no problems doing when we first bought him, then again if I was laying in pine chips with nothing but a potato with a bounch of gigantic things wanting to pick me up I'd probably react the same. My friend Tiffany took Rook and cared for him wile i brought Vincent home with me. Tiff was able to get him to trust her bit by bit and he even stopped overgrooming in her care, recently we re-introduced the boys and they took to eachother emeditly I however have trouble trusting Rook.
Which brings me back to yesterday, when I met Bourbon and she spoke with tiff and me, telling us about the PPP's, so today is day 1 in my hopes of learning how to care for Rook as i do with Vincent, needless to say I'am recieveing glares from both of my babies at the moment and I'm reading as much as i can. Honestly at the moment I feel completely lost. I know what i should be doing but the process of how to do it is gliding right by me. (sorry for the bad joke) I've taken out everything they can hide behind, they are laying in the pouch and are pretty calm about me walking into the room and speaking to them. So that is where I'm at at the moment.

P.S. sorry for the long essay wannabe update ^.^
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