GliderCENTRAL

What Makes a Mill Breeder?

Posted By: ValkyrieMome

What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 05:46 PM

I started this thread so as not to get THIS thread off topic.

It was asked What Makes Someone A Mill Breeder? My response:

A mill breeder is someone who sells their gliders to anyone with the available money. I don't care if you have 2 pairs, or 100 pairs, really. If you are giving all your gliders excellent care, and you can do that with 100 pairs - more power to you. It comes down to mill breeding when you are just doing it to make money. You don't care where the gliders go, you don't interview the buyers, you don't follow up and make sure your babies got a good home. When you are selling so many babies in A WEEK that they have numbers, and you never even met the person buying them - that's a mill breeder.

If the females are always pregnant, and then rehomed or "euthanized" when they are no longer productive - that's a mill breeder.

If the joeys are pulled too soon, so that the mother can focus on the ones she is ALREADY pregnant with - that's a mill breeder.

For me, I honestly believe that if you can give excellent care to 200 gliders, or pay someone to do it with you, (as I believe Priscilla does (?) ) - and still interview the buyers, never sell wholesale, treat each joey as if it is a LIFE and not a dollar sign - more power to you!

For the record, Mike McGrath's home is apparently wonderful. He has a few cages of very tame breeding gliders - all in large, very clean cages. All will approach anyone. Looks really great!

He doesn't mention the WAREHOUSE where he has 100s of other gliders, all in 1x1 cages, all breeding as fast as he can pull the joeys.

Originally Posted By: bingos_mom
Come to Kentucky and visit her shops here and talk with the people who run them. Get a FULL picture of everything, not just your area.


The ones in "our areas" ARE her shops, too. They sell her joeys. They represent her. They sell the joeys to anyone with a buck, and recommend things like pocket-knife neutering. THAT *IS* Her! Like it or not - the ones not in her home are her responsibility, also - if she sells them to "franchises" then she is a mill breeder!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 05:49 PM

Great post.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 05:50 PM

clap clap clap clap
Posted By: krysKritters

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 06:11 PM

GREAT POST!
I would also like to add that if the "breeder" is selling sick gliders/joeys and has no care of the health or well being of a glider.... They are a Mill Breeder!
I actually have one in my area that I know of and so far 3 out of 4 joeys die due to health, malnurishment, being to young to leave momma, and overall NEGLAGENCE! (and the 4th joey that did survive had to be nursed back to health and required extensive vet care!)
That is a mill breeder!
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 06:25 PM

Pocket knife neutering is what Mike Maxwell does not Kathy. Kathy can't even clip nails let alone neuter gliders.
I bought my white face pair from a reputable breeder, didn't get a care sheet, didn't get anything that showed what they ate and never a follow up e-mail to see how they are, and she is highly respected on GC
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 06:26 PM

I got my gliders from Mike McGrath (didn't know he was a mill breeder at the time). I can tell you that he probably never held them. They are about 4 months oop and still don't understand that my hands are attached to me!

I would also say that a mill breeder most likely has no idea of an exact oop date for their gliders. I have no idea how old mine really are except for rough estimates from GC people looking at pictures!
Posted By: Dancing

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 06:51 PM

Does Mike Maxwell work for Kathy or operate under her business name or supply gliders to him? If so, it makes her responsible for his actions.
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 06:56 PM

No Mike Maxwell doesn't have anything to do with Kathy. He lives in Woodbury Tennessee and sells at bird shows, flea markets and such. Lots of people confuse him and Kathy
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:04 PM

Maybe, maybe not. But Ron Wright DOES work for Kathy. And he and people in his booth DO recommend pocket knife neutering. In fact, they were DOING it at the Flea market - and extra $50, done while you wait!

Kathy was "horrified" to learn of this procedure, and was going to "take care of it". Guess what? Still being done. No action taken.

They work for Kathy - she is responsible. She is aware of the situation, and has taken no action. She IS A MILL BREEDER.
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:07 PM

I know what i am talking about Maxwell does not work for Kathy. The one that does the neutering does it with a Caterizing stick
Posted By: Srlb

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:10 PM

Quote:
The one that does the neutering does it with a Caterizing stick


I'm sorry but you said this like there was NOTHING wrong with it....maybe I misread that and just a bit moody today, however unless this person has a VETERNARIAN degree and license...they SHOULD NOT be neutering....not with a pocket knife, not with a caterizing stick, not with a clamp....not with ANYTHING!!

To do so, they should be shut down and neutered by us!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:15 PM

A cauterizing stick? No, they use POCKET KNIVES. At Ceasers Creek Flea market. It's not a male that does it is, it is a FEMALE.

Seriously, do you think we are making this all up??????????
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:15 PM

I didn't say i agreed with it I said it to make a point. people are making claims and they don't know what they are talking about.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:17 PM

Omg.


Are you REALLY serious?.....

Have YOU personally been to the flea markets in Ohio that KATHY SELLS HER GLIDERS TO and seen the conditions? I'm doubting it.

Guess what? I HAVE. It's not pretty, it's not fun, it's not sunshine and roses. They sell UNSAFE glider products, including wire wheels and edible huts. They sell SMALL cages. I've been personally told that vet care was an "unnecessary expense."

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:18 PM

That is VERY disturbing shakehead

Alden, great post!! clap
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:19 PM

I know exactly who it is her name where she lives and all
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:21 PM

Oh do you???

Can you PM me what info you have? I'd like to see if you are right. smile
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:22 PM

Originally Posted By: fliptout
people are making claims and they don't know what they are talking about.


No one made any claim. Someone *asked* if Maxwell was associated with Kathy. Asked and answered. Does your answer get Kathy off the hook for being a mill breeder? NO!!

Ok - so there's this Maxwell person who is a Mill Breeder, too. So - that doesn't absolve Kathy in any way for the consequences of her decisions and actions. Gliders under her care ARE pocket-knife neutered. And, apparently, cauterized. Ok - so - why did you mention that as a means to defend her? It just makes it worse in my eyes!

I'd like to add to my previous list of things that make a mill breeder:
Any person or individual working for the breeder makes claims as to the need for (or lack there of) veterinary care, and/or offers to "save you money" by doing veterinary procedures themselves. THAT'S A MILL BREEDER!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/08/08 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Srlb
Quote:
The one that does the neutering does it with a Caterizing stick


I'm sorry but you said this like there was NOTHING wrong with it....maybe I misread that and just a bit moody today, however unless this person has a VETERNARIAN degree and license...they SHOULD NOT be neutering....not with a pocket knife, not with a caterizing stick, not with a clamp....not with ANYTHING!!

To do so, they should be shut down and neutered by us!


clap
clap
clap
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/09/08 10:21 AM

Alden and Peggy! Yay for your posts!!!!

I've heard so much about Kathy over the years from people who sell at flea markets and the buyers of the poor innocent gliders! She is a mill breeder anyway you look at it!

Her and her employee's practices are not only immoral, they are illegal and disgusting! Neutering with ANYTHING other than STERILE equipment IN an operating room AT a licensed Exotic Vet BY the vet is sick!
Posted By: melek007

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/09/08 05:52 PM

Thank you Alden! clap
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 02:38 AM

I bought Jack from a mill breeder. I have no Idea for sure how old he is. I think there should br more laws on the sell of a joey. I think they should have to register every joey that is born to a breeder. They do it with puppies so why are glider less important? IMO
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 03:05 AM

Just want to say ROCK ON!
clap clap clap

If anyone is interested, please look at my forum in her listed as Pocket Pets (I am in tears!)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 04:13 AM

I don't find it excusable that "someone else under her employment" was neutering gliders and that she "didn't know about it."

If you have employees that are doing that kind of practice, then AT BEST, 1) you are not screening your employees nearly well enough, or 2) your business is too big and you are clearly unable to keep track of your employees and their actions.

To me, that this sort of practice was going on at all, whether she knew about it or not, would make it a business that is not well regulated rather than a caring glider breeder.

***If you care about gliders, not money, why would be have 600 gliders and allow them to breed when there are so many gliders out there who need homes?***

I can understand breeders who breed on a small scale because that is what they love, and of course, there is some demand for baby gliders. But there is not that much demand, and personally, I feel anyone breeding on that scale is in it for the $$ and not for what is best for the gliders.

Also, I'd like to protest the comment made in the previous thread that "If you are going to pay $300 for a glider, why not get a joey instead of a skittish adult with baggage."

You can blame it on me if you want to, but the two friendliest gliders I have are the two that we adopted as adults. The two I raised from joeys are friendly, but not nearly as personable, playful, and affectionate as our two adopted gliders.

Yes, some rescues come with baggage, but this is CERTAINLY not a universal rule, and someone who would post this, to me, is someone who perhaps has not been fortunate enough to have the rewarding experience of adopting an older glider.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 04:53 AM

First of all, whether it's with a pocket knife or she's cauterizing them, she is BREAKING THE LAW. It's called practicing veterinary medicine without a license and it's very frowned upon. In fact; just this week my vet told me to lodge a complaint with the states attorneys office, etc. and it's just what I plan to do. Thank you for telling me for sure that she's cauterizing. I appreciate your help!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 05:32 AM

Question.. Does this Kathy/Glidersrus have a set up in london ky?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 06:14 AM

I know she has them in KY, but not sure which locations. It sounds familiar though.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 06:18 AM

Well the reason why i asked is im ALMOST postive when i first rescued Ozz the girl i got him from was feeding him pellets that came from her store.. It has glidersrus on it i just wasnt sure if there was only one bus. named that..she also gave me something to add to his water ?? (When i got him first thing i did was changed his diet(bml) and gave him fresh clean nothing added water..)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 03:40 PM

She may have given you gliderade to add to the water, but I'm not sure. I use it sometimes as a treat, but not on a permanent basis.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 04:06 PM

I will add here too about the comment about paying $300 for an adult with baggage...

Many many rescues are available with NO adoption fee what so ever.

Yes, some adults have baggage but guess what...some joeys are so traumatized by being pulled from their parents at an early age that they have severe trust issues and/or severe health issues.

Responsible breeders do not pull their joeys before 8-12 weeks oop. Even the joeys that are eating on their own, next to mom and dad, at 5 weeks. Just because they can eat does NOT mean they should be pulled from mom and dad. They learn so much from the parents.
Posted By: sweetheart26

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/10/08 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Maybe, maybe not. But Ron Wright DOES work for Kathy. And he and people in his booth DO recommend pocket knife neutering. In fact, they were DOING it at the Flea market - and extra $50, done while you wait!

Kathy was "horrified" to learn of this procedure, and was going to "take care of it". Guess what? Still being done. No action taken.

They work for Kathy - she is responsible. She is aware of the situation, and has taken no action. She IS A MILL BREEDER.
whos Kathy is she a glider breeder??? just asking i dont know who she is..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 12:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Dancing
I will add here too about the comment about paying $300 for an adult with baggage...

Many many rescues are available with NO adoption fee what so ever.

Yes, some adults have baggage but guess what...some joeys are so traumatized by being pulled from their parents at an early age that they have severe trust issues and/or severe health issues.

Responsible breeders do not pull their joeys before 8-12 weeks oop. Even the joeys that are eating on their own, next to mom and dad, at 5 weeks. Just because they can eat does NOT mean they should be pulled from mom and dad. They learn so much from the parents.


I hope this isn't too off topic, but I have a friend that had a pair of gliders that had joeys. Her momma dehydrated when the babies were 7 weeks oop, and when she took her to the vet, her vet told her to pull the joeys when they were 6 weeks oop because they will suck their momma dry. Now I am reading on here never pull a joey before 8 weeks so that is contradicting what this vet told her to do. Is it a proven fact that you must keep the joeys with their parents until they are 8 weeks old, or is that just peoples opinion? Only asking because I am not sure why he would tell her that. He dealt with all kinds of exotics before he passed a few months ago.
Posted By: princessmegi

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 01:25 AM

The vet's advice is incorrect. I don't know of a single breeder that is reputable who would ever do that unless the joey was being rejected and needed to be handfed. Mom will wean her joeys on her own. That is how things are naturally. If they sucked Mom dry, how would they survive in the wild? Joeys start to wean at 5-6 wks oop, but continuing learning very necessary lessons from their parents past that. Some breeders even prefer to keep the joeys until 12 weeks, but they should never be separated before 8 wks.
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 02:11 AM

To add what megi said a diet the babies can eat should be in the cage not pellets. Then they can start the process of eating on their own.

Katy grrrr need i say more.. well i will I was asked tonight before I even got in from VA if I wanted to buy 3 gliders the owner is STUCK with! Guess where they came from.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 02:48 AM

Originally Posted By: SuggieLovers


I hope this isn't too off topic, but I have a friend that had a pair of gliders that had joeys. Her momma dehydrated when the babies were 7 weeks oop, and when she took her to the vet, her vet told her to pull the joeys when they were 6 weeks oop because they will suck their momma dry. Now I am reading on here never pull a joey before 8 weeks so that is contradicting what this vet told her to do. Is it a proven fact that you must keep the joeys with their parents until they are 8 weeks old, or is that just peoples opinion? Only asking because I am not sure why he would tell her that. He dealt with all kinds of exotics before he passed a few months ago.


Since the mother had a medical problem, the vet was correct.

Personally, I would have fed the joeys in hopes they didn't want much from the mother but if the mother was bad off, I believe the vet's idea was best.
Posted By: princessmegi

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 02:50 AM

I did not see that the mother was dehydrated. Sorry. In that case I would have left the babies with their parents, but supplemented the babies so that they had no need to nurse.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 03:56 AM

I see the fun never stops. I thought we grew up and got over this before but I guess not. Funny its the SAME people with the same issue, except now they are lying as well and that I WON'T stand for it. I feel it is only right that both sides be heard when people want to slander someone. First off I want to address Jill, my friend from Franklin. You say that I was on here before and made "false promises". Please be specific. There have been SEVERAL changes at Turtlecreek. You said you have been there several times. Last time I was on here I invited ANYONE who had an issue to come out and speak with me directly. ANYONE....HELLO. 1 person had the moxie to come and talk to me and when they gave a decent review everyone started saying I was her boyfriend or some [censored]. You say we use wire wheels...ummm....NO. We actually switched wheels awhile back after getting input from people on here on which wheels to use. I'm sure no matter what wheel we have it's not good enough. You say we have small cages...we have starter kits. We tell people these are just to get the glider home and set up. We also have much larger cages with stands that we tell people we recommend WHEN THEY ARE READY for a larger cage. You know you are suppose to get your gliders out as well...not just put them in a cage and let them be. Tends to make 'em grumpy. ANY issue you wish to address I am free to communicate with you on.
Now let me address ValkyrieMome. You have a real problem with the truth. I am only going to address 1 issue with you. The one where you said I recommend "pocket knife neutering". This statement bothers me so bad I really have to be careful here. I have said on here MANY TIMES that I do NOT condone neutering of gliders. IF a person wants their glider neutered I have posted on here EXACTLY who we recommend do it. And YES...it is a licensed vet. We have CLEARLY posted a neutering policy in the booth at both Turtle and Ceasers Creek Markets. I am calling ANYONE out who has PHYSICAL PROOF that anyone has neutered a glider on or off Flea Market property. This is the technology era people...phones with cameras, mini recording devices. I know if there is neutering going on SOMEONE has to have more then..."oh well she did this or she did that"....Bring me something...ANYTHING. Cause I'll tell you what...If I do find out that there is neutering going on in Ohio... I will personally make sure that person is removed from the market. I told Greg Dove that and I still mean it to this day. Neutering a glider should ONLY be done by a licensed vet in a sterile enviroment and anyone who thinks I have a view other then that is a LIAR. Plain and Simple. I guarentee you have never here the words "neutered while you wait" EVER leave my lips.
Enough on that. Real quick I want to ask something. You people bag on us for buying back gliders..for rescuing gliders. You say we don't check people to make sure they are a good person and a swell glider owner. Are we suppposed to go to these peoples houses, inspect their cupboards, do a credit check, blood and DNA work ups? Do any of you? Anyone HONESTLY say they do a home inspection of a stranger to buy one of their gliders.....I doubt it. We do what we can to make sure the customer has as much info as possible when they leave the booth. If they aren't sure we tell them to go home and study up online. I tell people we are there every weekend, come back if they have questions or want to purchase. There is NO PUSH for anyone to buy a glider. We buy back back babies when we feel they are old enough, at the same time we have refused gliders that looked to young. We are not selling out of the back of a truck, and we are not stupid. I don't claim to know everything about gliders but I know where to get information. This is a business people, and it's legal. Just like puppies and little fish, and snakes and rabbits. Our customers return to get things and we see the gliders, we see how they are doing and 99% of the time they are gorgous. We do everything we can so please...Stop lying.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:04 AM

Oh...one more thing. People say we buy and sell gliders to young. Let me share what happened a couple weeks ago. Guy comes into Turtlecreek wanting us to buy back his gliders. We told him no cause they were to young to be away from their parents. The guy got mad and cussed out my wife then went out in front of our booth and told people he would sell them for half what we charge. Also said we didn't know what we were talking about all because we DIDN'T buy his 4 week old babies. Thats how turn and burn we are.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:20 AM

Oh Ron - please don't start AGAIN with the lies. It wasn't amusing last time, it isn't this time.

Everything you say is either a lie or a half-truth. Like the person who posted before you ... nothing you say changes the ABSOLUTE FACT that you represent a Mill Breeder. You argue semantics ... "*I* never said pocket knife neuter!" Well, congratulations for you! It is still being done, however, and Kathy knows about it. Because of the last little chit chat you had over here - where it was brought out with PROOF and Kathy was called, and acted SHOCKED! But the woman still works for her, doesn't she!?

I don't care if YOU said it or one other of the drones said it! It is semantics.

And do reputable people ask questions before selling gliders! Yes! They don't work at flea markets and hand over babies to the first person with bucks.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:23 AM

Back ON TOPIC please!

The thread was started so that we can share our observations, so hopefully new owners can avoid buying from Mill Breeders.

So - are there other characteristics of mill breeders?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:23 AM

Wasn't it a proven fact very recently that someone was indeed doing the pocket knife neuters at one of the Ohio markets and was that vendor not fined for it? At least that is what I gathered from the previous thread on this subject.

Oh Sherry....which vet was it that recommended the joeys be pulled from their mom? I've spent a lot of time in the area and would be curious to know which one. It's ok that he 'recently passed', I'm just curious which one it was.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:27 AM

Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Back ON TOPIC please!

The thread was started so that we can share our observations, so hopefully new owners can avoid buying from Mill Breeders.


clap
Let Ron talk all he wants, the people here at GC know the truth thumb
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:32 AM

well, It is true that everything he says kinda confirms my point.

Kinda like a Jeff Foxworthy monologue: "You may be a mill breeder if ..."
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:40 AM

Oh no Val...you fired the first stone. Im courious how you say your in Illinois but you know sssooooooo much about our market. Must travel alot to different markets in different states huh? I am also courious to know what this "proof" was because we saw NOTHING. Someone has the stones to slander behind our back but wont come to the table. Seems like alot of internet chitty chats with nothing better to do. Let me see if i can start a rumor about seeing bigfoot and see if we can't start some internet gossip. You say I lie but if you go back and read my threads we have made the changes I told you we would make. If someone is rogue and doing things that they shouldn't then why not come to us and let us handle it. I already said I would be more then willing to run their [censored] out of Ohio. Wanna test me? Show me something! PLain and simple. You wanna make me out to be somebad guy and all you do it yap, yap, yap. Makes me wonder what kind of glider owner you are!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:43 AM

What point???????? Still waiting on that. Obviously the "proof" wasn't enough that Greg demanded anyone be fired huh? I'm sure he could have. We did EVERYTHING we were required to do. Again if someone is going rogue then we need to know about it so WE can fix the problem.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:47 AM

And suggiemom please get your facts straight as well. Your information is wrong.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:50 AM

LOL

You might be a mill breeder if ....

Ron - let's stick to facts, ok.

I started this thread to discuss the exact things that make someone a Mill Breeder, rather than a reputable, respected breeder.

You have said that your flea market booth does not do ONE of a list of about 9 or 10 characteristics of a Mill Breeder. Whereas there was proof - and even phone conversations - of that woman doing pocket knife neuters ... ok - that wasn't at YOUR little corner of the Mill Breeding world. Clarify for me - you work for Gliders R Us, right?

You, like "fliptout" previously in this thread, have just proved the point that you work for a mill breeder, not refuted it in any way.

Let me know when you see Big Foot. I'd be interested in *that*.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:53 AM

Please keep this thread on topic.

Originally Posted By: GC Rule#4
GliderCENTRAL is a family oriented board, and we keep things “G” rated. This means Illegal substances, Illegal activities, flaming, sexually explicit subjects, cursing, spamming, harassing, diet bashing and abusive or negative personal posts are not allowed. Posts and sometimes entire topics that contain such content will be removed, and the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Abuse, flaming or inappropriate comments directed toward GliderCENTRAL, its Moderators and Administrators, or failure to comply with the direction of a Moderator or Administrator, the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Please keep any personal matters off the board, take it to email or pm. Please keep in mind that board rules do apply when using the pm feature.
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 04:54 AM

and just why do you all think there can't be a big foot? so much land so little man brains to check it all out

sorry i was sticking up for poor big foot before I saw the Back on topic.


PS Mill breeders GRRRRRRRRR
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:00 AM

Are you a breeder? I recieve no money from Gliders 'R Us. Kathy has never given me a dime. No one ever said Kathy wasn't a breeder. Matter of fact she has been a successful breeder for well over 17 yrs. You have never been to Kathy's, and I doubt you ever will. You don't know me...again doubt you ever will. Yet somehow you seem to think in your own erogant way that you know us. You don't know anything. You spout...your mad...your bitter...whatever your reason. A phone conversation...please present the recording.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:09 AM

Please stop making this personal, Ron. I am trying to keep on topic of what makes a mill breeder, rather than a responsible breeder.

I don't know you, I don't know Kathy. I know that characteristics of a Mill Breeder.

1) A mill breeder is someone who sells their gliders to anyone with the available money.

2) You don't care where the gliders go, you don't interview the buyers, you don't follow up and make sure your babies got a good home.

3) When you are selling so many babies in A WEEK that they have numbers, and you never even met the person buying them.

4) If the females are always pregnant, and then rehomed or "euthanized" when they are no longer productive.

5) If the joeys are pulled too soon, so that the mother can focus on the ones she is ALREADY pregnant with.

6) A Mill Breeder sells so many gliders that they can set up to "franchise" them.

7) If the "breeder" is selling sick gliders/joeys and has no care of the health or well being of a glider.

8) A mill breeder most likely has no idea of an exact oop date for their gliders.

9) Any person or individual working for the breeder makes claims as to the need for (or lack there of) veterinary care, and/or offers to "save you money" by doing veterinary procedures themselves.

10) If a mill breeder has so many employees that he/she can't keep track of them and what they are doing.


If you can answer yes to two or more of these ... you just might be a Mill Breeder.
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:12 AM

a mill breeder sells in bulk to people who have no interest in where their new money making item is going. A mill breeder sells young joeys by the handful and ships them all over not worrying about the lost ones that don't make it. The people who BUY from the mill breeders ARE JUST AS GUILTY for taking those lives and in many cases MORE GUILTY because if they would stand for better conditions this would not/could not continue. I have talked to pet store owners who bought from a mill in FL. Many think this mill is ok but if I buy 10 gilders for $25 each it is no big deal if a few die. HUHH WHAT!
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:17 AM

argh. That hurts, Cyndie. I bought my first glider from a Mill Breeder. I didn't know better.

I've felt guilty about it ever since I learned ... In fact, that's one of the main reasons I have 6 additional rescues - as part of my penance. These gliders give and give. Taking in my rescues is my way of giving back.

I hate that I supported a Mill Breeder by giving him any money at all. I'm glad I came here and learned more. And I'm so sorry for all the babies in this area that I see advertised ... because most of them came from that same breeder.
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:24 AM

ahh but you have learned as I have I bought from a flea market (yep under age and bad diet info) it is those people who continue to do this over and over that make me wanna slap someone


Guess I need to clarify not the 3rd in line to get the gliders but the one paying the mills the discount price so they can turn around and sell for 200-300 each. See it is ok because at that price they covered the dead arrivals too. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. argg I better get to bed just thinking about these home show and flea market sellers is making me (locks away sharp objects, Nice KB lets work on the laws, whew )


did I tell you all I was asked to take in 3 originally from G-r-U. I was not even home from my trip to VA this weekend!grrrr mill breeders
Posted By: Dancing

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:25 AM

10. If a mill breeder has so many employees that he/she can't keep track of them and what they are doing....
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:34 AM

Thank you, Dancing - I knew I missed at least one!

No - I didn't hear that, Cyndi. It hurts my heart. I wish I could take in every one I see advertised ... but I just can't. Then I'd be as bad as they are - because I couldn't give love to my glider babies!

And then there is little Dewey - who after being with his owner for FOUR weeks, is no up to 32 grams! And NOW looks like an 8 week old joey. It is just so sad. Mill Breeder. Perfect Pocket Pets, in Dewey's case.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:35 AM

K..let me answer these.

1) False. We have refused to sell to people based on what we see and hear. We talk to everyone who purchases.

2) False. We Again we talk to everyone who purchases, they come back in time and again and bring their gliders in for us to see. When there is a problem or questions we have had people call our private number to try and help them.

3) Not exactly sure what you mean in #3.Our gliders don't have names or numbers and trust me...we talk to everyone who buys a glider.

4) False. The females are ot always pregnant. They are not force bred. We don't move them from cage to cage to constantly keep them knocked up...and I know we have NEVER killed, come on don't sugar coat it with euthanized, any of the older gliders.

5) Joeys are pulled no earlier then 8 wks. Most times longer. I believe it's called nature. When their ready, their ready. Again read 4.

6) I don't know just what you think we sell in a weekend but keep in mind Kathy lives in Tn. not the Bahamas. And she still works. She pays people to care for her gliders... you never mention that.

7) False. If we don't care then why do we have the health guarantee? People get mad cause we don't let their nasty little kids handle the gliders, they get mad when we make them sanatize but handling the gliders, and they get mad when the gliders aren't "out" so they can pet them for the 8 weekend in a row. We don't run a petting zoo.

8)People are in and out of those cages daily checking on the gliders and feeding and watering them. You think they don't know when there are joeys in there? And I'm pretty sure people in Tn. know how to write.

9)False. We recommend a licensed vet in the Cinci area. He specializes in Exotics and we tell everyone to get their glider vet checked...it's in the part of when we explain the health policy. Again only serious buyers here that part cause it's usually after they have asked how much are they.

Wow...don't do any of those huh. Guess we're safe.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:43 AM

Ron- YOU WORK FOR A MILL BREEDER, ok? The gliders you sell - come from a mill breeder!

YOU personally - Ok - great! You personally aren't a Mill Breeder. You sell gliders for Kathy - Kathy is a mill breeder. That makes YOU a representative of a Mill breeder, ok?

I'm glad that you personally have cleaned up your little corner of Kathy's Mill Breeding world. I really am. That makes me feel better.

But you make statements as if YOU are the Breeder. We had this problem LAST time you posted here. You aren't the breeder. You don't know what goes on in the other sites that sell Kathy's gliders. You can only speak for YOUR booth at Turtle Creek. You already told me that Caesar's Creek -- a flea market which ALSO sells Kathy's gliders -- is run completely differently than yours.

You say that as if somehow you are not affiliated with them. But, I'm sorry - YOU ARE!

EDIT: From this point forward, let me say right now FOR THE RECORD, that this thread is not about Ron Wright in any way. He is not a breeder. He works for one - although she doesn't pay him.

Ron - stop taking this personally! I talk about "Mill Breeders" and you read "Turtle Creek". It isn't about you, since you are NOT a BREEDER!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 05:52 AM

i might be totally off here but couldnt a mill breeder be some one who has gliders or any animal for turn of profit not the enjoyment of having them meet you at the cage door so they can pee on you to show you they love you ?
i think the line between breeders and mill breeders are the quanity and the PERSONAL care that is gave by the OWNER..More of the PERSONAL care though.. Just my thought...like i said i could be wrong just thought i would put that out there..

response to what the topic was..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 06:00 AM

a few years ago before i knew what a sugar glider was i went to a fair and inside they had 2 guys with gliders they had some good info and some bad but i didnt know it then(this was in virginia) they had about 3 adult gliders out and 4 babies in their pockets, they let everyone hold then even little kids like 5 years old without watching over them or anything, they said that gliders arent smelly at all you only have to clean their cages every few weeks, and he let people feed them fruit loops,they werent on leashes and had semi good cages size wise, they did have pouches but they did not have a wheel they had shaving in the cage and that was about it, the guy said they are really easy to take care of and you can let them run around your house with your other pets i thought they were adorable and i even held it the poor thing crawled into my hand hid his head and went to sleep(poor guy was exausted!!!) the guy said that they sell the joeys at 7 weeks old exact,and that they had hundreds of gliders where he works at, i went home and found gc and was soo thankful for this site!if it werent for gc i may have contributed to yucky mill breeders!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 06:14 AM

"And suggiemom please get your facts straight as well. Your information is wrong. "

Oh, I've got my facts just dandy Ron. I didn't say YOU did the neuters did I? I said, according to the last thread or maybe several threads ago, it was brought up that someone at the Ohio markets, was reprimanded for self neutering. If that is in error, then that is the fault of the original poster.

You're jumpier than a cat on a hot tin roof; especially when this thread isn't even about YOU. Reminds me of an old Carly Simon song...."I bet you think this thread is about you, don't you , don't youuuuuuu"....LOL

You can stand up for Kathy or mill breeding to justify it in your mind any way you need to, but I've got a house full of gliders that came from her in some form or other. Don't tell me she's such a great and wonderful breeder. The proof is sitting in my living room right now and you'll never get me to think otherwise.

And for me, it's not about whether they sell at flea markets or trade shows or how many gliders they have. It's the QUALITY of life they're given and well, in my personal experience that leaves a lot to be desired in some cases and if that doesn't include YOU then I guess you have no need to get so defensive do you?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 06:16 AM

SuggieMomma77 that sure sounds like Pocket Pets....same schpeal.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 06:23 AM

Wow....time and time again in this thread, it has been said this was a generic list of what we (in general) consider traits of a mill breeder. Seems to me that unless you have something to feel guilty about, this thread wouldn't offend you or cause you to become defensive.

There are quite a lot of new owners who are not familiar with the term Mill Breeder and exactly what that is and why they should be avoided. This thread was meant as an explaination. (atleast that was the take I got on it)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 09:54 AM

These are about dog breeders but I think a lot of it applies to sugar glider breeders as well.

http://home.comcast.net/~NoPuppyMillsVA/Responsible_breeding/responsible_breeding.html

http://www.iupui.edu/~ihls400/responsible_breeder.html
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 10:55 AM

I'm curious about something Mr. Ron, how is it you only show up here on G.C when a thread about mill breeding is up?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 10:24 PM

I agree with all that's said concerning what makes a breeder a mill - and I'm SO glad to be part of such a CARING community! You guys really are amazing!!

To be honest I have only ever dealt with ONE breeder personally. I have two full grown girl suggies - one from Sil/mysugarhigh.com and the other was a rescue who I think came from CCC. If for any reason Sil was SO DEFFENSIVE about any of my concerns, I'd at that point be even less reassured. This juvinille attitude of "Well!? Well?!? Yeah, but... yeah but... well, you...." etc screams bad practices, no matter WHAT the business. In my experience in working with a GOOD hobby breeder, I got the impression that a good breeder would go to any lengths to make you feel AT EASE. Not argue with you, but talk it out with you. The only things we EVER seem to hear from these large scale breeders (and their employees) is excuses and rebuttles. If I'd called my breeder up with horrific accusations, I'm sure she would not hesitate to go to great lengths to reassure me and prove my alligation wrong. I'm sorry but I just don't find any confidence in such a childishly defensive response to SO MANY bad experiences. If I were a breeder and found I had THAT bad of a rep, I'd be completely mortified and would quit the business, and that's no lie! I think any good, respectable, responsible hobby breeder would feel the same.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: suggiemom
Wasn't it a proven fact very recently that someone was indeed doing the pocket knife neuters at one of the Ohio markets and was that vendor not fined for it? At least that is what I gathered from the previous thread on this subject.

Oh Sherry....which vet was it that recommended the joeys be pulled from their mom? I've spent a lot of time in the area and would be curious to know which one. It's ok that he 'recently passed', I'm just curious which one it was.


Suggiemom, I am not sure why you referred to me as Sherry because my name is Janine. And the vet's name that I was referring to is Dr. Butler. I don't think I made the first post clear or else some of you have read it wrong. Dr. Butler told her that the reason her momma glider was dehydrated is because the babies were to old to still be with her and they were sucking her dry.

He told her to take the babies away of course right then but if she let that glider breed again to make sure she took her babies away sooner and that way she would not get dehydrated again. She doesn't have to worry about that though because she had the daddy neutered. That is why I ask, because I was trying to find out if it was a proven fact that they had to stay with their momma and daddy until they were at least 8 weeks oop.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/11/08 11:29 PM

Janine...I've left joeys with the parents permenantly. I have several family colonies and never once have I had a mom dehydrate from a nursing joey, nor even nursing twins or even my one set of nursing triplets.

Gliders are capable of producing different types of milk for different age joeys as well so they can accomodate out of pouch nursing joeys AND newly in pouch joeys at the same time.

Gliders are not stupid animals and they are generally great parents to their offspring. Like other animals, if they are not producing milk, they will stop nursing. When this happens when the joeys are still young, under 8 weeks, it is generally because the diet the mother is on is NOT providing the nutrients and moisture (such as pellet diets) that the mother requires to produce the needed milk for the joeys.

So no, joeys should NOT be pulled early because of the risk of dehydration to the mother providing that the mother is on a proper diet and getting the needed nutrition and moisture.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/12/08 03:07 AM

Oh Janine, I guess I had you confused for someone else huh? My bad. Sorry.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/12/08 03:19 AM

Dancing - that was my thought.

I have not had the experience with breeding that you have had, but I have had kids! I know that when nursing, I would sit down with a LARGE glass of water! It makes sense that then that I would want to up the intake for my little glider mom. She's eating for two, and, unlike humans who have just given birth, she's not worried about getting back her girlish figure, or about some sort of pre-set schedule the joey should be on!

I've increased her food, I've increased her mealies, and I've noticed that, since Abigail came OOP, that cage has emptied one of their two water bottles twice! Stella Luna is being abundantly fed, so that she can abundantly feed her little Abigail.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/12/08 07:32 PM

It makes me really sad to think about the way we bought our first baby.

I LOVE animals but we live in an apartment and the pet deposit is $700 (with only $200 of it being refundable). The only way to get out of it is if they are a caged animal. We were in Grand Prairie, TX for the weekend and stopped at Traders Village before we came home. We were introduced to the glider world by Mike. He had four tiny babies to sell that day. He showed us his gliders and even showed me how they could drink out a juice box and clean up ANY mess they made. They let me hold them and love and cuddle them. He told me how EASY they were to care for, apple slices and a few Mazuri pellets in the evening. They didn’t ever smell or make messes either! AMAZING! He even through in a little cage that would “last her forever” and 6 months worth of Mazuri pellets in for FREE! SOLLLLLLLLLLLD!

When we got home, things were awful. Sugar bit, she crabbed, she bounced from one side of her cage to the other. I tried MANY times to get a hold of Mike: email and phone both. He wouldn’t answer. It was about 6 weeks before we realized what was happening to our baby.

MILL BREEDERS NEED TO BE STOPPED!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/12/08 09:12 PM

Oh, I'm sorry you had to learn about them that way. It's just disgusting that they tell people these things. People just get suckered in by the cuteness and they make it seem so great and the gliders so friendly, but they don't sell you the ones in their pocket, they reach into a cage of terrified joeys and send it home with you!
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 12:35 AM

The girl that did the neutering no longer works for Kathy, she fired her last Wednesday
Posted By: Bubbles8i8

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 01:59 AM

Says who?
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 02:03 AM

Heard it from several people that work for Kathy.
Posted By: Bubbles8i8

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 02:06 AM

That sounds very credible. ohwell
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 02:06 AM

Great.

That's ONE good thing in her favor.

When *was* that thread about that woman neutering? And how Kathy was appalled and going to fire her right away? Wasn't that ... SEVERAL MONTHS AGO???

Way to jump all over that problem, Kathy! Two thumbs up!




Too bad she's still a Mill Breeder!
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 02:19 AM

I think that some of you just want something to complain about. I have tried to get help here all i get is complaints.
A lot of you here say welcome glad to help. but you help only when it is to your advantage or if someone agrees with you. I have had enough so i won't bother any of you again
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 02:45 AM

No one can house 600 glider pairs or even 600 gliders properly unless they owned a suggie zoo with 50 plus employees FULL TIME that knew what they were doing!

We have 23 and it's a full time job for me plus most of the weekends for my husband (he's on the road during the week) and what help I get from my daughter. I don't go anywhere unless it's to buy fleece, groceries, run to the vet (notice everything I do and everywhere I go is suggie related) Most things I do from home including paying bills and purchasing on the internet.

Lots of us have about the same amount of gliders as I do and all of you know how hard it is to keep everything as perfect as we can for our babies!

All of our gliders have a MINIMUM cage of 20x32x55. We have 4 cages that are HUGE and I mean HUGE and we are pretty much out of room.

WHERE on earth would someone house that many gliders and better question... WHY? MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!

Who is going to say those 600 or pairs of gliders get attention, treats and love every single day? Does ALL of them have a Stealth or Wodent wheel to call their own? Does every single one have lots of toys...SAFE toys?

What diet are they on? Proven? I doubt it as it would take many large freezers and TONS of money to make up their diets! Not to mention the fridges needed for fruits, yogurt, etc.!!

People can tell stories all they want about how those suggies are taken care of properly but we here on GC KNOW FOR A FACT it is NOT the truth!

For 600 pairs of suggies, you're talking about needing a MANSION with a full staff just to clean out cages...not to mention an entire staff of Veterinarians ON CALL 24/7!

Bologna! Those gliders are abused, UNloved, on a horrible diet with no one to play with them and not even toys to amuse themselves!!! Crammed into tiny cubes just to breed!

There is no excuse for this to be happening. All it takes is for people to be HUMANE and have common sense. Animals are NOT money...they are living breathing creatures of God with personalities and a Soul that cry out for love, the love they should NEVER have to BEG for!!!!! WE are supposed to take care of them, NOT the other way around!!!

I've got plenty more to say but I'll take it straight to the horse!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 02:53 AM

I also heard that Kathy fired Samantha, but I also heard she was just out on maternity leave, that she will be back in September. Who knows only time will tell. I hope to god that Kathy did the right thing and really did fire her. Samantha was wrong to be doing all the things she was doing and also giving false information. Lets all hope and pray that she is really gone for good.


Mommy to two human kids
and four suggies
plus a wife to a human, lol.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 02:56 AM

I'm sorry - there were TEN things on that list of what makes a Mill Breeder. Or did we make it Eleven?

So - she stopped pocket knife neutering at ONE of her sites. You think she needs a medal? For all the gliders she is PUMPING into rescue homes on any give weekend?

So - she no longer employs someone who neuters on site (maybe). What does that change about the way she breeds her gliders? The way she "finds homes" for them?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 06:27 AM

Well, according to "Janine"....she's downsized considerably and built a $35,000 warehouse next door to her house with an automatic watering system for the hundred or so pairs she has left. Come on you guys, she really, REALLY cares about her gliders and she FINALLY got around to firing Sam! What more do you guys want?

Hmmmm fliptout, wonder how many poor suggies had to suffer at the hands of Sam before Kathy finally got around to firing her? Don't you think if even ONE glider suffered that fate it's one too many or are you condoning that treatment?

Not only is it reprehensible, it's called practicing veterinary medicine without a license and it's against the law. You and I don't get to choose which laws we abide by, what makes Sam above the same rules that apply to the rest of us? Just so she can make a couple of bucks on top of what she's already charging people for a joey. And, I don't know of a vet that will even neuter a joey before four months of age....

I'm so sorry that you feel that you're not getting help here and that we're just looking for something to complain about, but silly me, I find the torturing of innocent animals repulsive. Where did you not get help? I thought this thread was about what makes up a mill breeder? I wasn't aware it was about you.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 06:31 AM

I was at the flea market umm...maybe a month ago??? and the lady working in the both told me that Samantha was pregnant, and was high risk.

Soooooooooo.. I definitely believe she's probably just out on maternity leave and will be back in September.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 04:51 PM

I have the same feeling that she will be coming back in September. The other thing that really upsets me is that she buys back joeys and adult suggies for $75.00 then turns around and resells then for $200.00. That just aggervates me to know end. I have also seen her buy suggies back from people then put that suggie that she bought for $75.00 with another suggie that she bought for $75.00 and tell people that they have to buy both of them because they have been together since the begining, when in all actually she just put them together that day. I'm sorry to vent but it just makes me sick on some of the things that she does. Ok, enough from me for now. All we can do is pray for these poor litle suggies.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 05:26 PM

Incredible. I can't believe how this is allowed to continue.

Poor sweet babies.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/16/08 05:30 PM

PLEASE!

I am really really trying to collect evidence to stop all Mill Breeders!

If anyone has documentation, or you are willing to write up a first hand statement - PLEASE contact me!
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/17/08 01:28 AM

Samantha is gone!!!!!!!!! I know this is true, yes she is pregnant high risk but she is not coming back, believe it or not. She has maybe 100 gliders now in a huge building. She has fresh fruits delivered a couple times a week, she feeds her gliders very well. She does hire help that is on the premises all day
Posted By: Bubbles8i8

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/17/08 02:10 AM

Originally Posted By: fliptout
Samantha is gone!!!!!!!!! I know this is true, yes she is pregnant high risk but she is not coming back, believe it or not. She has maybe 100 gliders now in a huge building. She has fresh fruits delivered a couple times a week, she feeds her gliders very well. She does hire help that is on the premises all day



Have you seen all of this first-hand? Or did you just hear it from one of her employees?
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/17/08 02:14 AM

Where exactly is she located? I'm due a vacation, and I'd love to verify these things for myself. If I can meet her, see her breeding operation, see her gliders, and I'm wrong - I will post the biggest apology you've ever seen, and become her biggest fan. I am seriously eager to be proven wrong!
Posted By: Bubbles8i8

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/17/08 02:30 AM

I believe she is in or near Nashville, TN.
Posted By: Bubbles8i8

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/17/08 02:31 AM

Anyone interested in her website, please PM me.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/17/08 02:45 AM

hmmm..just down the road from me. grin

Thank you for the info!!
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/17/08 02:47 AM

Hmmm.

Lynn, I may need to come for a visit, ok?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/18/08 04:11 PM

Originally Posted By: fliptout
Samantha is gone!!!!!!!!! I know this is true, yes she is pregnant high risk but she is not coming back, believe it or not. She has maybe 100 gliders now in a huge building. She has fresh fruits delivered a couple times a week, she feeds her gliders very well. She does hire help that is on the premises all day


Big deal! Just because she's trying to clean up her act now doesn't change the past. Whether you like it or not, she did what she did and she is what she is.

And, you're totally missing the point. It's not JUST about Kathy. It's about ALL Mill breeders. SO, if she falls into that category that's life.

Do you not understand that the market is SATURATED with gliders? We've been seeing colored gliders for the past couple of years...white tips, butter creams, wfb's, etc. when that happens there is TOO MANY JOEYS BEING PRODUCED!!!! When that happens, they end up in rescue situations. Whether they come from Kathy or Mike or any of the other well known MILLS doesn't matter. The end result is the same!!
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/18/08 05:11 PM

Suggiemom,
Do you breed gliders?
Posted By: Mel2mdl

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/18/08 06:05 PM

No, she doesn't - she rescues them. smile
Posted By: Dancing

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/18/08 08:40 PM

Suggiemom is not a breeder. She has one glider she was given as a joey that has all the known lineages and such yet although she could, she STILL does not breed her.

She has however rescued numerous gliders that originally came from Kathy's mill and Pocket Pet's mill too. She is one of us that is there to pick up the peices when mills/brokers sell to un(glider)educated new owners.
Posted By: fliptout

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/18/08 09:13 PM

She lives in South Carolina right? Kathy doesn't sell there
Posted By: Dancing

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/18/08 09:14 PM

She lives not far from TN, has family in TN, goes to TN often and has had many gliders come to her from Kathy's "booths" in the TN flea markets.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/18/08 09:30 PM

I did live in TN, NOT that it's any of your business, but yes I do have family there and visit often and yes, I do rescue gliders out of that area on a regular basis thankyouverymuch.

I have family in Knoxville and Newport and it makes it very easy to railroad them out of TN and to responsible homes here in SC.

Why? You looking for joeys? Try your friend Kathy I hear she's got em' coming out her ears! If you need to unload some, lemme know I'll be in town this weekend and can have them placed in great pre-screened homes the next day....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/19/08 12:45 AM

The woman at Ceasar's creek is no longer there as of a couple of weeks ago. Kathy finally got rock solid proof of what was going on, not he said/she said from a bunch of people who are against her anyway. If I were in her situation, I don't think I would have taken a lot of your complaints to heart either. And in any of your work places, if someone is out there saying things about your or your performance, your boss is not going to fire you over hearsay. He will advise you of the numerous allegations and the consequences if they continue, and then he will find solid evidence to get rid of you, which is what Kathy did. How many of you have taken your gliders out to the booths to see Kathy face to face and actually hear what she tells people, which is really no different from what I've learned on here myself?
Posted By: kthiessen

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? - 03/19/08 03:47 AM

See Part 2 here.
© 2024 GliderCENTRAL