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Color and Genetics?

Posted By: B3N

Color and Genetics? - 08/23/11 03:41 PM

Okay, so here's what I know.

Leucistic - both parents must carry the gene to produce a Leu.

WFB - only one parent need carry the gene to produce a WFB

Mosaic - only one parent need carry the gene to produce a Mo.

But what about the others? Platinum, BB's, albino, Champagne, etc...

What are the genetics for the other colors? Is there a list available that explains the genetics for all the colors?

Thanks for the help. I just want to know what I "might" be getting into with breeding for specific traits/colors.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/23/11 04:21 PM

Albino is like leu, both parents must carry the gene.

BB can show up randomly, even from non BB parents. I had a BB born to 3rd generation wfb parents (that was a surprise!)
Posted By: Chris_R

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/23/11 04:22 PM

recessive color gene... leus, albino, platinum, cremino = you need both parents having the gene to produce the color

dominant color gene... bb, mosaic, wfb = you only need 1 parent displaying the trait to produce the color, if its now showing, its not there (except for bb and other normal grey color variations, that can pop up out of "nowhere" as Dancing said above)
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/23/11 04:41 PM

Okay cool. Is it possible to have a 100% Plat AND Leu Het? I want a Leu baby at some point but the platinums are very cute too...ha
Posted By: tjlong

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/23/11 05:15 PM

We think plat geneworks with the leu gene in a way so you can have a platinum that, when paired w/a leu or leu het will produce both plat and leu joeys but I don't believe you can have a glider that is het for both. If the glider is 'het' it is for one or the other. Make sense?
Edit: I just re-read, I know it sounds clear as mud!
Posted By: Chris_R

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/23/11 07:42 PM

I think they are thought to be on the same allel with platty being dominant over leu (though not proven that I know of yet) and thus can not be both, so its het is one or the other

yep, Im sure Im as clear as mud too!
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/23/11 08:40 PM

So if I was to receive a Platinum, then a Leu or Leu Het and bred them, there will be a "good" chance to receive both Leu AND Plat babies?

That's not TOO bad a deal...unless of course there is a stigma on breeding Plats to Leus? Or I'm wrong. HA! blush
Posted By: Sunshine

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/23/11 09:53 PM

There is only a chance if the Platinum has Leu in the genes, and the Leu/leu het has Platinum in its genes.
Posted By: AmandaSnyder

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/23/11 10:19 PM

Ive seen people have joeys listed 100% lue het 66% plat het is this possible?
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 01:25 AM

Ay dios. Well...maybe I'll just stick with wanting a Leu. :/
Posted By: lilangels

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 05:40 AM

I have been looking at the plat leu het gliders lately so it must be possible to have both I mean if you breed a platnimun with lue het genes with a lue who has plat genes no matter what color you get they will be het for the other color right? Also is it possible if your glider has the plat gene like 2 or 3 generations back and is paired with a plat can they still possibly get a plat from that long ago gene being there? Ok now I sounds as clear as mud too...maybe with all mixed our brains with a bit too much leu and platinum...lol!!!!
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 11:52 AM

I'm not mad at ya Connie. It's definitely a confusing mix. I guess my concern would be stemmed at how close the lines would be related in terms of Platinum X Leu. Or even Platinum Leu Het to Leu Het and vice versa.
Posted By: jen102375

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 03:17 PM

Yes they can carry both. You can get plats from parring a plat to plat or a plat to plat het or a plat to a lue or a plat to a lue het. The plat and lue gene have been proved to work together. So if you have a Plat that is also a lue het paried to a lue you can get plats or lues. I am still not sure how all of it works completley, but I do know that the percentage only means, that is the chance that the glider has of carring the gene. If you have a glider that is 66% it is not a gareentee that the glider carries the gene at all it just means they have a 66% chance of carring it. I was shocked when I got a lue from my 2 wf's never was excpecting it, one was a 50% lue het and the other was only 15% but they either have it or they don't. Allot of good breeders, can tell if a baby carries certian genes by the coloring or somthing in the way they look.
Posted By: AmandaSnyder

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 03:48 PM

thanksm alot
Posted By: tjlong

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 04:01 PM

Jen102375, under most circumstances your explanation of percentage of possiblity for a glider to be het is correct. However, in the case of a normal colored glider that shows a percentage of het possibility for both leu and platinum I am pretty sure most breeders believe that glider will only be able to carry one or the other but not both genes. This is for the normal colored gliders. It gets confusing.
Not to sound snooty or anything, but that is another reason why I think it is really important to learn as much as you can about genetics, coefficients, how colors are believed to work together, etc. before you decide to breed. There is a lot more to pairing properly than just putting 2 gliders together because you think they will produce pretty colors. IMHO
Edit: I have to mention we are just talking color here. Relationship, temperament, health of the gliders and many more things should be considered as well. agree
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 04:54 PM

Tracy, this is why I'm asking so I totally agree. I just saw the Platinums that have surged over the last year and I find them ALMOST as adorable as Leus.

How are the lines in terms of inbreeding though? Will there be low COI's with breeding Leus to Plats?

If I want both, is my "pairing" to be a Platinum Glider that is 100% Het for Leu with a Leu that is 100% Het for Plat?

Sorry if that's confusing. I just want to make sure I do it right. I don't really want to be a breeder right off the bat but I know I want to have a glider family. Probably 4 total. One plat and one leu would be great. I just want to make sure I do it correctly. Anyone feel free to PM me too if you can make better sense of it all.

smile
Posted By: jen102375

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 05:33 PM

Actually Tracy, It has been proven recently by a couple different breeders that the indeed they can carry both. One has a plat/ lue het paired with a lue and they have gotten platinums and lues from the pair. Now the Plat has to have the lue het in order to get lues. Or if it didn't have the lue het then they would get Platinum and no lues. I would not be breeding if I didn't feel comfortable enough with my knowledge for breeding colored gliders.
Posted By: AmandaSnyder

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 07:08 PM

I believe itn takes alot to breed but I thank that truely we dont know everythang about genes it just takes time to figure it out.I just know ive looked at alot of joeys lately and when looking at there linage ive seen parents one be lue plat het one being plat lue het have one joey being a lue and one being a plat.Myself i believe they can carry both but im not a breeder i just rescue hoping one day to breed i know theres alot to learn im willing to do so.
Posted By: finnessa

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/24/11 07:24 PM

This is why when listing het babies they are listed or should be listed as 50% leu het 50% platinum het or half of what the parent % is because you aren't sure which gene was passed on to that baby. Leu babies that come from a leu/Plat pairing are not plat hets or they would display the color and will not go on to produce plat unless paired to a plat or plat het. They won't produce plat if paired to a leu het.

Like I have a 50% plat het paired to a leu. Which is Jen's boys brother. Delilah is a leu and Baby Lopez is a 50% plat het 50% leu het. So far they've only made hets. The hets are 100% leu het because of mom BUT are only 25% plat het until hopefully daddy proves out some day then they'd go to 50%.
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/25/11 12:44 PM

Okay, I don't want to seem like I'm beating a dead horse but here's my question revised. I asked it in a PM but having more than one opinion is great.

My initial question was about the Hets pairing up.

But the actual question is the same but with NORMAL COLORED GLIDERS. So the pairing is this.

Standard Grey 100% Het for Leu X Standard Grey 100% Het for Plat. Will this pairing produce both colors or neither?

Thanks again guys. Ha.

And basement update for some, bleaching the walls today to KILL THAT MOLD, ha.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/25/11 01:26 PM

Originally Posted By: B3N
Standard Gry 100% Het for Leu X Standard Grey 100% Het for Plat


I believe that potential pairing, if the gliders prove out could produce a platinum. It would not produce a leu. It will also produce standard grey, 50% plat het, 50% leu het offspring. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. smile

I have attached a Percent het chart that you can open and look at. It may help you understand the %het that two parents would produce.

Attached File
Percent Het Chart.pdf  (21 downloads)
Posted By: lilangels

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/25/11 04:14 PM

I think shelly is right if you do not have the leu gene in both gliders they can not produce another leu but would produce leu hets or plat hets. You may have a chance of getting a platinum out of it though. From what I've been reading some believe that the plat gene will work with the leu gene to produce a platinum. So ideally if you want the chance of a leu or a platinum I would go with a leuistic glider paired with a platinum leu het...better yet if you can find a leu plat het and a plat leu het...that would give you all possibilities but no guarantees.
I wish someone would write a book explaining all about the glider genetics and how it all works. I would love to have something like that to really be able to just sit down and read everything I can about it. I have been talking to a girl who is just a senior in high school and planning to go into genetic engineering and she is very interested in learning about the glider genetics so I am hoping she will keep studying and be able to tell me more about iit.
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/25/11 05:00 PM

That's what I thought/feared. I like the Plats, don't get me wrong but with the "market" the way it is for them today, I can't picture spending that much for one. I think I'll stick to my original idea and have 2 100% Leu Hets breed for a chance to have a baby Leu.

I don't want to breed to sell, I just saw all the pictures of the Leus from birth and on and I HAVE to be able to experience that.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/25/11 05:39 PM

Breeding an 100% leu het to another 100% leu het is exactly the same as breeding leu to leu, isn't it?

I believe it is mostly not done, as the lines aren't bred out enough yet.
Posted By: AmandaSnyder

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/25/11 06:35 PM

I dont believe breeding 100% lues is the same because they are not lues they just carrie the gene, Im pretty sure im right but im not a breeder! But i believe thats what most people buy when they want to have a lue baby! Its not forsure that they will have them but there is a chance.
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/25/11 08:09 PM

That's what I learned Alden when I first researched colors last year. Leu to Leu breeding is very frowned upon. There hasn't been any TRUE research really but no one is really brave enough to try other than a remote few people.

Most people, from what I've gathered, breed Leus to 100% or lower Leu Hets, so what I'm doing is going one step further to lower COI's and inbreeding risks by taking 2 standard greys that happen to be 100% Leu Hets. That gives me a 1 in 4 chance that a baby will be a Leu. I was told that was my safest and smartest bet to make sure the inbreeding stops.
Posted By: lilangels

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/26/11 12:44 AM

Ben keep your eyes open because sometimes you can find amazing deals on the leus. How much would you be willing to spend? I got one of my leus for $400 because the breeder said she was crabby the other sweetheart mosaic glider was very expensive and she ended up being sooo crabby and the leu is a sweety.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/26/11 01:06 AM

I wonder. If you breed two standard greys will any color mutations show? The only breeding experience I have is with snakes so I'm curious how glider genetics work.
Posted By: AmandaSnyder

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/26/11 02:19 AM

If you breed two standards that are not het then they will only have standards maybe bb.It all depends on there linage!
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/26/11 02:21 AM

Thanks Connie. I still have a while yet before I can even get the buggers so hopefully I'll be able to find some good prices. Just from this thread I have some great prospects!

dance
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/26/11 03:17 AM

Ooooh okay, see with snakes all regulars have the recessive gene for albino. So I was like okay ever 25% of snakes hatched have the chance of being albino or whatever hte glider equivalent is of them. I have no desire to really be a breeder by any means but I was just curious, what you could get lol. Black Beauties are lovely though, I would love to have one some day. Or an albino omg little polar bear face <3
Posted By: AmandaSnyder

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/26/11 03:47 AM

Yeah breeding is a very hard job,i have been working with gliders for 6 years and just now got my first breeding pair just for hobby.Its really hard to learn everythang about the genes so i believe ill stick with my 100& lue het pair one wfb and the other cin.
Posted By: tjlong

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/26/11 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: jen102375
Actually Tracy, It has been proven recently by a couple different breeders that the indeed they can carry both. One has a plat/ lue het paired with a lue and they have gotten platinums and lues from the pair. Now the Plat has to have the lue het in order to get lues. Or if it didn't have the lue het then they would get Platinum and no lues. I would not be breeding if I didn't feel comfortable enough with my knowledge for breeding colored gliders.

Jen, I meant no disrespect at all! hug2 I would like to know who has proven hets can carry both the plat and the leu gene. There is no doubt in my mind you know what you are doing. agree In this thread maybe you were just talking about an actual platinum that is het for leu paired with a leu making both plat and leu joeys. I agree that is possible but there isn't a leu that carries the plat gene.
I still contend that both gliders have to carry the leu gene in order to get a leu. The plat works with the leu gene but I haven't heard of a plat het (who doesn't carry the leu gene) paired with a leu producing a leu. I am pretty sure Benjamin wants a leu more than he wants a platinum from what he has said, I could definitely be wrong!
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/26/11 07:59 PM

so jen by your example with the parents producing both plats and leus wouldnt that mean that the plat. gene
is not recessive?
back on page 1 they were saying the leu, plat. and creamino
were recessive and both parents had to have the gene to
produce, also everyone has been saying that the glider cannot have both the leu and plat gene.
by what you have said this theory is not correct, this is
very interesting.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/27/11 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: B3N
Most people, from what I've gathered, breed Leus to 100% or lower Leu Hets, so what I'm doing is going one step further to lower COI's and inbreeding risks by taking 2 standard greys that happen to be 100% Leu Hets.


Two grays that are 100% Leu hets is exactly like breeding 2 leus. You aren't lowering any COI's or out-breeding whatsoever.
Posted By: B3N

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/27/11 08:40 PM

Alden,

My apologies for my ignorance. I naturally assumed since that is what I was told.
Posted By: Glide_Bye_Lily

Re: Color and Genetics? - 08/27/11 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Originally Posted By: B3N
Most people, from what I've gathered, breed Leus to 100% or lower Leu Hets, so what I'm doing is going one step further to lower COI's and inbreeding risks by taking 2 standard greys that happen to be 100% Leu Hets.


Two grays that are 100% Leu hets is exactly like breeding 2 leus. You aren't lowering any COI's or out-breeding whatsoever.


You can breed them out by going this route if the leu parents of both hets were paired with gliders with zero or little leu lineage.
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