GliderCENTRAL

BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers?

Posted By: Guerita135

BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 05:58 PM

I wanted to start a poll, but I realised that there is no option for one. frown

Anyways...

I have a question for those who have male/female pairs that have been together since they were joeys(BEFORE sexual maturity):

"How old was your girl when she had her first joeys OOP(since not everyone knows the exact day of conception, lol)?"

Every site I've seen says a different # for the average age at which a female reaches sexual maturity, so that's no help. I figured I'd just average out when all of your gliders had their first joeys. wink
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 06:02 PM

This was 5 & 7 years ago, but Kira was about 14 months when she first got pregnant (they were together since they were both about 10 weeks). Lili was 3 1/2 months OOP when she birthed her first joey.
Posted By: jkaradeema

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 06:11 PM

We have a male/female pair that were together since they were 8 weeks old. Their first babies were already OOP once they were about 11 months old.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 07:29 PM

Yowzers Sugarlope! Just 3 1/2 months old! blush Was she ok?

Keep em coming! wink
Posted By: tbull

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 07:59 PM

my females have all been between 9 and 14 months when they first got pregnant.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 08:25 PM

Most of ours were 9-12 mo....one lion girl took 18 mo and one little girl got preggers at 7 mo and rejected both baies
Posted By: TheGliderPlayroom

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 08:30 PM

Most of my females have been about 8-9 months old when their first babies came OOP, so they would have gotten pregnant around 5-6 months old.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: TheGliderPlayroom
Most of my females have been about 8-9 months old when their first babies came OOP, so they would have gotten pregnant around 5-6 months old.


I tend to forget to think of it that way...

I have mainly been going to breeders' sites and seeing when their gliders came OOP, then looking at the mothers, and so on. They are all about 7-12 months when they give birth, but I forget that means that they got preggers when they were just a few months old!

Man oh man, my little girl is 4 months old, that means she almost all grown up already. cry

The other night I heard hissing noises and checked on them. They were both inside their coconut toy, Gil was on top of Silvara(because there wasn't enough room to be side-by-side, lol). At first I thought they were mating, but he wasn't grabbing her neck or anything(I assume that's what they do) so I passed it off as them just argueing over the lack of space in the coconut. dunno You don't think they were...you know?

*gulp*

The boy's bald spot is already pretty big, but his poms haven't dropped yet...I don't think...
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 08:53 PM

Ack! I just checked their food dish(I take them out int he evening cause they don't wake up til about midnight) and there's still about half of their HPW left!!! They ALWAYS lick it clean! AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! blush

I'm not ready for them to grow up yet! cry
Posted By: blockamon

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 09:55 PM

Sarah was about 7 months when her first joeys came OOP.
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Yowzers Sugarlope! Just 3 1/2 months old! blush Was she ok?


At the time, it was common to put them together as joeys and then separate them for a couple of months when the female got to be 5-6 months. I was going to separate at 4 months (just to be safe roflmao ) and noticed lumps. When I counted back (after her joey came OOP and opened her eyes) they would to have had to conceive right at 3 1/2 months or a bit before. (I found out after the fact that her mom and uncle were early breeders also...great help that was!)

Lili was always a phenomenal mother (she nursed 4 joeys for 5 1/2 weeks!!!, that's when Pascal was neutered - she looked tired). All of her male joeys got their full bald spots between 8-12 weeks OOP, so there are just some lines that breed really early. wink
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 10:01 PM

Wow, 4 joeys at a time! That little girl was meant to be a mommy! lol. I'll bet you were proud of her. smile
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
The other night I heard hissing noises and checked on them. They were both inside their coconut toy, Gil was on top of Silvara(because there wasn't enough room to be side-by-side, lol). At first I thought they were mating, but he wasn't grabbing her neck or anything(I assume that's what they do) so I passed it off as them just argueing over the lack of space in the coconut. dunno You don't think they were...you know?

*gulp*

The boy's bald spot is already pretty big, but his poms haven't dropped yet...I don't think...


Pascal never bit Lili's neck, he just kind of looks like he is riding on her back (he will even look at me like..."What?!?" ), so that is no indication. I would tend to say that since she is so young, it is not wise to let them mate at this point. I would separate them for the next two days/nights. You might have already missed it, if that is what they were doing, but if you can skip the pregnancies when they are this young it would be better for her.

I did not intend Lili to get pregnant so young and it can often end in sadness, we were just very lucky.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 10:15 PM

Originally Posted By: sugarlope

Pascal never bit Lili's neck, he just kind of looks like he is riding on her back (he will even look at me like..."What?!?" ), so that is no indication. I would tend to say that since she is so young, it is not wise to let them mate at this point. I would separate them for the next two days/nights. You might have already missed it, if that is what they were doing, but if you can skip the pregnancies when they are this young it would be better for her.

I did not intend Lili to get pregnant so young and it can often end in sadness, we were just very lucky.


That's EXACTLY what Gil did. They both looked at me as if to say "get that bright light out of our eyes! What do you want?"(it was the middle of the night, so I peeked in on them using the nintendo. that thing is bright!)

The wierd thing is that Silvara NEVER goes in the coconut. Also, when I come over to the cage she gets jumpy and usually jumps into her wheel and ignores me. tounge

You don't think seperating them will cause them to get stressed? Silvara gets stressed REALLY easily and didn't even like me til Gil came along. Now she FINALLY tolerates me. frown
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 10:59 PM

Most of my girls are late breeders. Lively and Vanity never had their first joeys until they were over 2. Apple and Mirame had their first joeys before they were a year old... Most my other females I've gotten when they were a little older, or they haven't started breeding yet, so I can't really say for them.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/16/08 11:00 PM

Mystery willbe 2 in August and just now has her first joey oop on Easter
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 01:26 AM

Willow was 9 months when her first twins came oop; Stella is 16 months and has not yet had joeys and Amira is 7 1/2 months and has not yet had joeys.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 01:34 AM

Ok, another question for ya'll:

Do you think that the age a female(and males!) reaches sexual maturity is genetic?

I've looked around and it seems that, most of the time, mothers/grandmothers/daughters seem to start breeding around the same age. I haven't really checked out the boys, so I'm not sure about that.

However, I can't really trust what I see in lineages because I know that females and males aren't always put together when they are joeys. Sometimes girls aren't put in with males til they are about 5 or 6 months old and the boys are just babies.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 01:50 AM

I think genetics would play a part in it wink no absolute proof though here.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 02:00 AM

It seems like based on everyone's replies in the thread that it is possibly related to genetics. dunno
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 02:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
You don't think seperating them will cause them to get stressed? Silvara gets stressed REALLY easily and didn't even like me til Gil came along. Now she FINALLY tolerates me. frown


You are only separating for the tonight tomorrow and tomorrow night. Ideally, you separate them as soon as you discover them breeding for 3 nights and the days in between. They stress a little bit (boy more than girl usually) but then they are back together for the rest of the month. I think this stress is better than her stress of breeding early (and your stress over her if she does, I know what that's like! grin ).
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 02:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Do you think that the age a female(and males!) reaches sexual maturity is genetic?

Absolutely, the entire line (Lili's mom through Lili's joeys) all showed earlier maturation. I believe it to pass to a girl or a boy (not a sex trait) since Lili's boys all matured early and other males were interested in her girls early as well. (I strongly warned everyone who had one of Lili's joeys of the risks and likely hood for them to breed early).

Quote:
However, I can't really trust what I see in lineages because I know that females and males aren't always put together when they are joeys. Sometimes girls aren't put in with males til they are about 5 or 6 months old and the boys are just babies.

I think this is a safer way to do things, you don't want them breeding early. It is not a desirable trait, as you sometimes have to separate joeys earlier than 8 weeks or at least by 8 weeks if they are maturing quickly. It is recommended now (more than it used to be) to wait until they are closer to adulthood before even introducing so that caring for the joeys (and all that goes with it) might be easier for mom to handle.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 02:41 AM

Thanks Sugarlope. They don't wake up til Midnight, so I'll go ahead and set up my spare cage and put Gil in there.

Do you think I could put them together during the day so they can sleep together and then seperate them again tomorrow night, or do I need to keep them completely seperate?

How long should I do this? At what age can I stop seperating them?
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 03:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Do you think I could put them together during the day so they can sleep together and then seperate them again tomorrow night, or do I need to keep them completely seperate?

How long should I do this? At what age can I stop seperating them?


No, they will mate any time, day or night. So if you are going to separate, it needs to be the whole time for those 2-3 days. BUT realize that you will likely miss mating over the next few months (if you haven't already with this one) and she will have babies early anyway. That is why it is recommended never to put them together/introduce until the female is 8+ months OOP.

That being said, what's done is done and I agree that it will be too stressful to separate them longer than a few days at a time. If you keep track of her cycle (every 28 days, but I always planned to start listening 26 days from when I first heard in case I heard them late, because her heat cycle generally lasts 2-3 days) you can be prepared. She may have already conceived, so if you don't hear them next month this would be a good indication.

My suggestion ahead of time is if she does birth a joey from this mating (if that's what it was) DO NOT STRESS OVER HER!!! I think that a lot of human 'parents' tend to stress over their mom's with joeys and I worry that this causes the glider mom extra stress that, particularly as a new mom, she does not need.

It seems like I hear about a lot more rejected/canabalized joeys than I used to when I started breeding. Maybe it is because there are more breeders or maybe it's just me, but I know a lot of new breeders really seem to stress about joeys and I've seen what our stress can do to our gliders. shakehead

So that's just food for thought. Be excited (absolutely!!!) but don't check on them every 15 minutes and if a joey is left in the cage pouch for 15 minutes, it's ok!!! Relax and enjoy the experience. thumb
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 04:57 AM

Alright, as much as I hate to do it, I will keep them apart for the entire next 48 hours. frown AND i'll keep my fingers crossed that Silvy isn't preggers(I REALLY want joeys, but not enough to risk my baby girl).

I already marked it on my phone so that I won't forget to separate them next month. wink Silvara will make hissing noises when she's in heat, right?

Don't worry about me stressing if she IS preggers. I learned the hard way not to stress over Silvara. I was bugging her too much when she first got here and she stresed and stopped eating. That ended in a vet visit, meds for 2 weeks, baby food, and pedialyte twice a day. Alhough, I HAVE made huge strides and can now get her out of the pouch and she'll stay in my hand. laugh

Actually, I planned on not putting the gliders together til Silvara was 9-12 months old. However, after talking to some of the reputable breeders from here on GC I was told that it was better to put the 2 gliders together while they are joeys and that would decrease the chances of rape and early pregnancy because they would have an opportunity to become bonded and would make intros easier. I was told that if I waited then intros would be alot harder because the boy would already be mature and would only be interested in mating. The girl would get stressed out because of it. :\

Also, I don't think Silvara would have lasted that long without a cagemate because she was really stressed and crabby before I got Gil. As soon as I put Gil with her she was nice, stopped crabbing, was eating more, and was a lot calmer.

I'll only check on them once or twice a day and will TRY not to stress if the joey is left in the pouch for more them 15 minutes(that will be a hard one), lol. wink
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 12:03 PM

I feel like a terrible mommy. cry

Last night Gil was barking the entire time and I ended up having to put his cage outside the room because it was bothering hubby. Silvara was doing a weird hissing noise, it started with a half-bark and then a long, drawn-out hiss. I guess that confirms she's in heat because on Suz's site it says females make a hissing/barking sound when they're in heat. frown Then again, it ALSO says that females don't mature til they are at least 5 months old(Silvara is only 4) and males don't mature til they are at least 3 months old(Gil is not quite 3). :\ I must just have bad luck that BOTH of the gliders reach maturity early, argh!

Anyways, to top it off, neither of them touched their food last night either. Do you think they mated during the day or something or they didn't eat because of the stress of being separated?

My poor babies. cry
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 01:01 PM

The earliest one of my girls had babies ip was 5 months old. I believe I was told by another breeder that she had a female that was only 4 months old when babies were ip. That really is SO so early, as the "mommies" are still just joeys themselves. They are not full grown yet, it most instances... though, almost.

Most of my girls have had babies ip around 9 or 10 months old.
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
I already marked it on my phone so that I won't forget to separate them next month. wink Silvara will make hissing noises when she's in heat, right?

Not necessarily (sorry). Kira never did this, and Lili only occasionally made noises (unless they were literally mating at that moment, which is what cued me to separate them). I would just say to listen for mating starting around that time and separate as soon as you hear it.

I think it is difficult to know what is the right thing (about when to put joeys together). Probably if I wanted to breed again, I would get the female first and then get a male that is 3-4 months younger. That way, as they mature, the girl has a little more time to be ready. dunno

I put a joey female (Lili) with a year old male (Pascal). I I do not believe he ever 'raped' her, she didn't seem to mind at all, I think 'rape' in gliders happens a lot less than people think - BUT the reality is that it could happen, so that is where the concern comes from.

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Last night Gil was barking the entire time and I ended up having to put his cage outside the room because it was bothering hubby.

Anyways, to top it off, neither of them touched their food last night either. Do you think they mated during the day or something or they didn't eat because of the stress of being separated?


That is completely normal. He knows Silvara is in heat and wants to do something about it, Pascal was the same way. And don't worry, whether they are together or not, it is entirely common for them not to eat (either at all, or very much) during her heat cycle. In another day/night, it will be all over. Pascal used to lose a couple of grams while separated (big surprise since he's not eating) but was always completely fine once they were back together (Pascal is a very high stress glider, btw and he did ok). It is heartbreaking to listen to them call for each other, but as Lili got older, she actually liked the 'break' and would go about her business as if to take advantage of every moment free from mating! roflmao .
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/17/08 08:36 PM

Ok, I'll just breath and calm down. I just hate to know that my gliders are stressed. frown Poor Silvara was sad this morning and sleeping in the coconut, Gil's favorite hiding spot. When I checked on Gil he facehugged me and tried to race down my leg and escape to get to Silvara. :\

Katarina offered to come by if the gliders don't eat again tonight(since I know they didn't mate in the last 24 hours) and just check in on them. This is my first breeding pair and no amount of reading truelly prepares you for it. It's as stressful to me as it is to them. frown

Does it get any easier? lol

Look at Silvy's sad whittle face this morning:


Posted By: sugarlope

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/18/08 01:47 AM

Easier, maybe not, as you will always worry about your little ones (even when they aren't yours anymore). But better...definitely better when you see those little ones and help love them while they grow up. cloud9
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/18/08 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By: sugarlope
Easier, maybe not, as you will always worry about your little ones (even when they aren't yours anymore). But better...definitely better when you see those little ones and help love them while they grow up. cloud9


cloud9

I bawled for days when I found out that a kitten I adopted out passed away a few weeks ago so giving up the joeys is going to be even harder now. frown I've helped rehome alot of animals before(fosters/rescues/ even 2 kittens I handraised when their mom rejected them) and so far all the homes have been great(except one, the woman developed allergies and had to return the cats).

Besides, I have all of you to help me. grin mlove
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: BREEDERS: when did your girls first get preggers? - 04/18/08 06:22 PM

They both ate all their HPW last night and Silvara stopped bark/hissing so I put them back together this morning. They were SOOOO happy to see each other! mlove
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