GliderCENTRAL
Giant Lump
Posted By: Anonymous
Giant Lump - 07/30/08 01:47 AM
Hi all - well, I just got my kids out for playtime & Fawkes has a giant lump on his neck that he didn't have this weekend.
I have been driving the past 2 days, so they have not had playtime, but I didn't notice it until today.
I looked as best as I could & there is no indication of a bite - no bleeding, no holes.
I'm uploading pics right now.
I have an e-vet, but they don't know about gliders, so I'm thinking it would be best to take him in first thing in the morning since he is eating, drinking, and acting normal.
Opinions please - I have no idea what this is...
***Pics coming in a few minutes...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 01:54 AM
Posted By: sugarlope
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 01:59 AM
Is he acting normal otherwise? If he isn't lethargic and is eating/playing ok, I agree that I'd watch it and take him in first thing tomorrow.
I wish I had any ideas to tell you, but all I have is hugs and prayers that all will be ok with him.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 02:00 AM
An infection in a thyroid gland? if they have it?
uumm......couldn't be a broken neck, but maybe a strained /pulled muscle? allergic reaction??
that's all I got
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 02:03 AM
He's out eating right now. He is a little more active than usual, but they all are because I cleaned the repts today & they're checking out the "clean smell"
I'm going to go check him again for bite marks. I just can't think what would make a lump that big so fast...
Posted By: Cora
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 02:09 AM
Call me if ya want...................looks like something I have been through before but I pray its not. Lemme see if I can find some Rocky pics.................
Posted By: Cora
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 02:14 AM
Posted By: Cora
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 02:14 AM
and Rockys lump came up over night.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 02:14 AM
Ok, I just went and looked again (he was running in his wheel) - no bites marks that I could see, but he was being really wiggly so I suppose I could have missed something.
The lump is hard - it feels like someone put a bouncy ball under his skin (like the kind you get from the machine at the supermarket).
Arg.......
Posted By: uraqt33
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 02:54 AM
I'm sorry Gina!!! This is horrible
I hope everything's ok!! Keep us updated when you find out what it is
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 03:08 AM
The vet opens at 7:30 - so I'm going to set an alarm.
In the meantime, I went on VIN & got their list of veterinary oncology consultants to take with me just in case.
Please cross your fingers that this is nothing serious...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 03:14 AM
ill be praying for you, hopefully it's not lymphoma.
all fingers and toes are deffinitely crossed for this little guy
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Giant Lump - 07/30/08 03:32 AM
Good luck Gina I do hope that it is nothing serious.
Posted By: Anonymous
Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 02:31 PM
I just got back from the vet - Fawkes does indeed have lymphoma.
She said removing the tumor wouldn't help because it's probably already spread elsewhere in his body.
The only thing she could give me for him is some Chinese herbal meds. They're by New Vita - one is called Immuny II and the other is Immune Up. She has never tried them on a glider, but has had success with dogs and cats.
Posted By: LSardou
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 02:43 PM
Gina, I'm sorry to hear this news. I have heard of that particular herbal treatment and have seen remarkable results in some animals that were treated with it. I pray that this will work for Fawkes. Sending you tons of hugs and prayers.
Posted By: glidergrl1513
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 03:08 PM
I'm sorry to hear this Gina. I'll be praying that the herbs work!
Posted By: uraqt33
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 03:18 PM
I'm sorry Gina!!!
I'm praying Fawkes pulls through this!!!
Posted By: Karin
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 03:55 PM
Oh my gosh G...I am so sorry.
Karin
Posted By: sugarlope
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 04:38 PM
I'm so sorry Gina. My thoughts and prayers are with you both.
Posted By: Cora
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 05:14 PM
I was so praying that is NOT what it was but it(the pic) looked so darned familiar to me. I am so sorry. can anyone link her to Darcys (cancer survivor) diet???? Darcy had a Different kind of cancer but it might be worth a try. Hang in there and please know I am here if ya need me ((((HUGS))))
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 05:32 PM
Awwww... I am so sorry! Gina, I hate to hear you are having to go through this! Please keep us updated and let us know how hes feeling!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 05:48 PM
How old is Fawkes? He looks like a pretty young strapping dude, I am surprised to see lymphoma in such a young animal :-/
So sorry about the news
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 05:54 PM
I'm so sorry Gina!
We are all here for you and will keep your little one in our prayers!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 06:05 PM
oh Gina, i'm sorry
i'll still be praying for your little guy
Posted By: Dancing
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 06:15 PM
oh Gina, I'm soooooo very sorry! Is there anything I can do to help?
How do they know if it has spread or not? I would not rule out surgery just yet. Did they do a blood test to verify it was lymphoma?
Posted By: Trigger
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 06:27 PM
Gina I am so very sorry. I will keep your little guy in my prayers. Sending hugs.
Posted By: Dancing
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 06:53 PM
Gina, please call me!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 07:03 PM
Oh Gina... I'm so sorry. I'm praying for Fawkes.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 07:06 PM
They stuck a small syringe in it & pulled out some cells. She showed me under the microscope the cells actually splitting.
They did not draw blood, just did the stick...
Fawkes is only 3 1/2 years old.
She said there is likely a genetic component, so I will need to be watching 4 of my other boys who are sons, brother, and nephew to Fawkes.
She said without treatment he probably only has about 6 weeks.
I'm going to email Donna, I don't have her number...
I have to get to the store now & get something yummy to mix his meds in...
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 07:25 PM
Oh no, Gina! I was praying it was something else (this was what I thought Timmy had with his lump.) My heart is breaking for you. What treatment can they give him? All my prayers are with you both. God bless.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 07:34 PM
Oh Gina, my heart is breaking for you and Fawkes. Surrounding you and Fawkes with white light and positive thoughts that he will pull through this.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 08:31 PM
Gina, I'm so sorry.
I hope that Fawkes pulls through this. You'll be in my prayers.
Posted By: TracieB
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 08:58 PM
Oh Gina, I'm so sorry about Fawkes.
I hope the herbal treatments will help him. Sending tons of hugs and prayers for the two of you.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 09:19 PM
Gina, I know I said this before your last post but I will for sure keep you and Fawkes in my thoughts and prayers!
Give that little one some love for me!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 09:35 PM
I am so sorry Gina. I had a dog that has lymphosarcoma which is cancer of the lymphnodes. My thoughts and prayers are with you!
Posted By: Cora
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 10:36 PM
genetics is what I remember my vet saying as well. Rocky was 1 year old.
Hopefully the power of prayer will bring you all more than 6 weeks.
Just follow your instincts and your heart....................
Posted By: BeckiT
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/30/08 10:41 PM
I'm so sorry Gina
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 01:10 AM
Thanks everyone...
We had a rough time with the first dose of meds. I mixed them in his favorite (Dannon La Creme) yogurt, but he didn't want anything to do with it.
I'll try mixing it in something else tomorrow.
I'm going to try the magnet therapy too - I just need to get a hold of Linda.
Posted By: LSardou
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 01:14 AM
Gina - 620-382-3228 Call me!!!
Posted By: reeny
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 01:33 AM
Gina I am so sorry to hear this. Sending prayers to you and Fawkes.
Posted By: Feather
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 01:56 AM
I am sorry to hear that the little guy has lymphoma. Sending prayers your way.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 02:18 AM
Ok, I've been talking with some wonderful glider people & got some tips to review with my vet in the morning.
Linda was wonderful enough to put some magnets in the mail for me - so we will be trying that as soon as they arrive.
I think I am going to ask the vet again about the steroids - I was so upset, I don't really remember everything she said.
Also will be asking about the addition of some B vitamins, Ensure, and crickets.
I'll keep you guys posted - thanks for being here...
Posted By: Cora
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 02:27 AM
Fawkes is a beautiful glider. Thank goodness for wonderful glider people!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 02:30 AM
I am so sorry to hear about Fawkes! We are all here for you! Many hugs are sent your way and give Fawkes a kiss for us.
Jen
Gina
I am praying very hard for Fawkes and for you. I pray that Fawkes will be another one of our community's miracle gliders. I wish I had more suggestions. I know that others have had success with the magnet therapy. So, I am so pleased that you have talked with Linda. She is amazing and I have already started my babies on the magnet therapy.
Have you done any research on vitamin E? Since you are adding vitamins, you might want to add it as well.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 02:37 AM
Gina, I'm very sorry to hear this about your boy. My prayers are with you. Treat it aggressively, (as I know you will) and spend lots of extra time with him.
Please let me know if you need anything or just want to talk. I'm here.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 02:59 AM
Val - No, I haven't looked into vit E, what is it supposed to do?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 03:14 AM
Gina, may I suggest that whenever you talk to the vet that you have a pad of paper and pen with you? That way you can take notes and will be less likely to forget what is said.
I fully plan on visiting you & Fawkes when I come down there to look at houses! So you tell Fawkes that I expect him to fight hard!!
You need to make sure that you get plenty of rest too Gina. We don't need you to get sick!
HUGSSSSSSSSSSS
Vitamin E has been shown in studies to increase immune functioning. It has also been shown to reduce tumor size and inhibit tumor growth in studies on rats.
I know that a few of us in the community have been using it in our diets for a while now. I am going to PM you a link, Gina. Give it a looking over and let me know what you think.
Posted By: Srlb
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 03:26 AM
Gina, did you ever talk to Donna like I suggested?
Sounds like you did get some good advice going.
You know I am only a phone call away girl.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Giant Lump - 07/31/08 03:31 AM
Hi gina, im fairly new here, dont post to much since the gliders we have belong to my daughter, she has 2 females, bella and baby are their names and i noticed the same thing the other day on bella, so my daughter is taking her to the vet on friday to see what it is, but i guess now i know:( she will be heartbroken. Bella is 4 years old, she doesnt seem any different, her appetite is fine she plays fine, but like you said this thing just popped up. When i first noticed it i was like what the heck is that. Was it painful when they used the needle to draw out a sample? I am so so sorry to hear that fawks has this and you are most definitly in our thoughts and prayers. Nikki
Posted By: LSardou
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 03:36 AM
Just wanted to confirm Val's suggestion for the Vitamin E. It has been proven to be an excellent source for targeting the cancer cells causing them to loose viability, which will decrease the proliferation of the cells that are viable.
Gina, before you try anything other than what you are giving him right now, I would like to see what's being suggested to make sure that it is compatible with what he is getting now. Administering various Vitamins, Supplements, etc. can cause adverse reactions.
Posted By: Ellen
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 03:44 AM
Gina, I just talked to Bruce and he said he highly recommends Vit E. He told me to tell you to ask your Vet how much you can give. We used it with our gliders with Antitoxins and I swear it saved the ones left.
Posted By: hipbchik
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 03:44 AM
As someone with Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma, I can attest to the power of Vitamin E in humans anyway...after almost being killed by Chemo & Radiation, I started following a Homeopathic routine, and one of the first things I was told about was taking Vitamin E. Now I use Essiac, and though I still have Cancer, I'm healthier than most of my friends that don't! You can also use Essiac on animals, & I can get you info on that if you'd like...
I'm sorry your little guy is ill, & I'll light a candle
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 03:19 PM
Ok, I'm still trying to get the last of Fawkes meds into him - they are really bitter, so he just shakes his head when I squirt it in his mouth.
I have tried yogurt & today I tried apples & blueberries baby food. I have some other things to try - I just hope he likes one of them.
Nikki - When they stuck a needle in it to pull out cells, it was very fast, but he was not happy about it. Good luck with your little girl.
Peggy - I did email Donna, but have not heard back yet. I don't have her number.
Carolyn - I looked up the Essiac - it doesn't have any of the same ingredients as the herbals he's currently on. I wonder if it could be added.
Ok, Here's my list of things to ask the vet about adding to Fawkes' regime:
Vit E
Vit B
Ensure
Crickets
Essiac
Arg - I don't know what I'm doing here & I am just worried that I'm going to make him take all this stuff & we don't even know if it will work well together or if I'm just stressing him more. I don't even know if we went down the right path with the herbals, or if he should have been on steroids. I just feel completely lost in all this. I wish we had some more definitive answers about cancer in suggies.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 03:35 PM
I just called my vet & she's out of the office today. I could just cry...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 04:14 PM
I am so sorry to hear that. I study and consult for a lot of oncology companies, so I know a good deal about treatments. (That and I'm a homeopath). One thing that's gotten a lot of science press lately is the benefit of EGCG in fighting cancer. That's the active compound in green tea. It's going into clinical trials for leukemia/lymphoma as we speak.
I'm not sure how to give it to gliders or if it'll harm them. Maybe a natural powder form he can lick? Wish I could help!
Posted By: glidrz5
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 04:56 PM
Gina, I'm so very sorry to hear about Fawkes. Hang in there hun. we are here if you need us (((((HUGS)))))
Posted By: Cora
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 06:15 PM
Gina.........................I know its all very confusing................................and theres not enough research ...................and every vet and everybody has their own ideas about what might help. Vit. e is what I am hearing the most about....................I think I am going to talk with my vet about that for some of my gliders. I know Spencer takes a diff. kind of medicine but I mix it 1 part med to 4 parts HPW warmed to room temp and he takes it much better that way.........the nuerontin he takes is very bitter. I have heard the word surgery as well. When Rockys lump was removed and sent off to pathology (The vet could not get any fluid out of it) He lived for 4 more weeks. I may have indicated to you on the phone the other night that I thought that was why it spread fast but the vet assures me it wasnt. Have you had an x-ray to see if its spreading to his little bones?? If its not spreading yet surgery is an option...............................................
You are Fawkes mom and you will make the right choices/decisions for your guy with you vet...........................the right decicions are the ones you can live with.
Everything happens the way its supposed to.
Posted By: Gossamer
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 06:20 PM
I'm sorry about your guy. Could you explain what the lump is from? I know cancerous growths don't spring up over night - is it filled with fluid?
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 06:23 PM
Actually, they can and do. Esp. Lymphoma, that is usually exactly how they appear. I wish I had some ideas to offer. Know I am praying they can find something that can help him.
Posted By: scraptilldawn
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 06:26 PM
I'm so sorry Gina, much
and
you and Fawkes will be in my thoughts.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 06:32 PM
Gina - just saw this.
I'm SO SORRY. How horrible.
I hope Fawkes will respond well to the herbs. Let us know ...
Hugs. Let me know if I can help in any way.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 09:56 PM
I went & picked up some waxies today - I'm going to try to turn them into moths for him. I just have to figure out how to do it - project...
I fed him about 12 of them - he made yummy noises, which made mee happy. I have 5000 mealies being overnighted to me also, so we should be good for buggies...
I also got some Ensure in case I can't keep his weight up. And I got some vanilla pudding to try mixing the herbals in.
I opened the capsules and tasted them myself earlier - one is very bitter & the other tastes like very strong veggies. YUCK! No wonder the poor boy shakes his head when I feed it to him!
Cross your fingers that the pudding hides the flavor of this stuff, because it's gross, but he needs it.
I'll be getting up at around 8am to call the vet before they get busy.
I'll be sure & let you all know what is said...
Posted By: sugarlope
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 07/31/08 10:51 PM
You are Fawkes mom and you will make the right choices/decisions for your guy with you vet...........................the right decicions are the ones you can live with.
I completely agree with Cora. While the rest of us are giving you our experiences to draw from; you are his mom, you
are making the right decisions, no matter what you know him best. He knows the love you have for him is strong and enduring and that alone is wonderful medicine for him to keep fighting.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 02:09 AM
Thank you Ellen - I used the vanilla pudding for tonight's meds, and I cut it down to 1.5ccs instead of 3ccs. He still didn't like it, but it went much smoother than the last two times.
I tasted it myself - it wasn't good, but there was an undertaste of vanilla that probably helped.
Do you think maple syrup would be bad? I was just thinking that that stuff is so sweet, I could probably do it in 1cc, and it probably wouldn't taste as bad either.
His magnets should be here tomorrow - but my mail doesn't come until around 4pm, so I'll be waiting. Linda, I'll call you when they get here. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: angelic4296
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 02:17 AM
Gina, I just read this and could cry for you, but you're an amazing glider mom and nobody knows him better than you, so I agree with what was said...follow your instincts and if your vet is saying no to surgery for example, but you'd like to further explore it as an option, be aggressive...he's your baby and we all know these guys (and girls) are our hearts, so do whatever you think is right and most helpful for him...I'll be thinking of you and Fawkes...keep us posted.
Posted By: Ellen
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 02:54 AM
Gina, not sure about the maple syrup. That is really full of alot of sugar. Especially that much for such a little one. Someone else may have other info or opinion.
If you split the 3cc into 1 and a half then give the other half in about 30 min or less that should be OK. Glad the pudding worked. It's great to hide meds in.
I will keep thinking what else you can try that is sweet.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 05:13 AM
Sending prayers to you and Fawkes!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 03:52 PM
Ok - talked to the vet this morning:
On the steroids - she said that in the short run, they can shrink the tumor, but generally are only effective when used in conjunction with chemo drugs, which we can't use on suggies. She also said that in the long run, they protect the tumor.
I asked if there was any way we could xray or do something to see if the cancer had spread elsewhere in his body - as this would make him a candidate for surgery if it was localized in the one lymph node. She said we could send him to the University of Tennessee for an MRI, but that would cost me about $1100 - $1200. I know cost shouldn't be a factor in his care, but I just don't have it, not even if I scrape. So this just sucks!
She said that the vitamin E and B wouldn't hurt, but she didn't know dosage or anything. So, Gretchen & Val, I need to get with you two about the type and amount of these vits that you're using.
The Ensure - she said has too many refined sugars, etc and she wouldn't use it unless he starts losing weight significantly.
I asked about the Essiac & she said that there are no clinical trials to back it up, and that there are over 40 different formulas being marketed as Essiac in North America right now - so really there's nothing to say that it doesn't work, but there's nothing to say it does either.
Posted By: kthiessen
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 05:11 PM
Gina, I just saw this. I'm so sorry.
Posted By: Cora
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 10:40 PM
(((((HUGS)))))
Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 11:27 PM
Gina, I know how helpless you feel right now. I felt the same way. Keep going with what you are doing, listen to your gut and heart. I'm still praying for you and Fawkes.
HUGS
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 11:30 PM
Ok, so I ordered the VAL syrup (B vitamins) and will be starting him on 0.25cc/day.
I will also start adding 800IUs of Vit E to each batch of Priscilla's mix.
The screwy mail system didn't get the magnets here as promised, so we're crossing our fingers that they'll be here tomorrow.
Fawkes ate 20 waxies today - 13 after his morning meds, and 7 after his evening meds (he probably would have eaten more, but I didn't want to ruin his dinner).
I tried mixing the meds with honey water tonight - which we both decided was not as good as the vanilla pudding. Oh well, Mommy is trying...
Posted By: Cora
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/01/08 11:34 PM
Your doing great!!! He knows your trying!!!
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/02/08 12:07 AM
Awww, Gina, God bless you. When they are sick, I think we will go to the ends of the earth to try to help them. Praying very hard there is something to help him. My prayers are with you.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/02/08 03:43 PM
Well, Fawkes finally lost his temper with me. We were about halfway through with his morning meds & he bit me! And Fawkes does NOT bite! Not hard enough to draw blood, but one of those pinching bites that hurts just as much. He just finally had enough I guess.
We had to keep going though, so I got bit about 4 more times while trying to finish his meds.
Hopefully the waxies he got afterwards made him forget what Mommy did to him.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/02/08 04:21 PM
I'm really sorry you have to go through this
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/03/08 03:41 PM
Quick update -
I mixed the herbals in water today & was able to do it in just barely over 0.5cc - which is about a third of what I was having to use with the pudding. So even though it the taste was ever so slightly worse, there was much less to get down.
I wonder, though, if a glider can really get the full benefit of these herbals since they don't swallow them, but just suck on them & spit out their typical "half-moons".
He was also started on the vit E last night.
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/03/08 03:51 PM
Awww, Gina, I know about the biting...Timmy never bit either until what we just went through (he has stopped now). It is heartbreaking. My prayers for you both continue....
Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/03/08 04:33 PM
Gina - I don't even know what to say. I'm reading updates, and thinking of you both. I'm so so sorry you are dealing with this.
Hang in there, Momma. I know you are doing everything you can. You don't do things half way!
Posted By: Cora
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/03/08 05:00 PM
Same with Spencer....................the biting I mean. Glad you are finding ways to get his meds down though!! Give him a kiss on his little head for me please!
Posted By: USMom
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/03/08 08:30 PM
Gina, I would keep doing what you are doing. I started adding Vit E to my gliders diet about 4 months ago, after doing a ton of research on it. Basically, an over dose for humans is 25,000 times the RDA. So, you have to extrapolate down for weight, and guess. The result of an OD is severe neurological problems, which, as we know are very hard on gliders. I add about 1000IU to each batch of HPW. For a one time meal (make a meal that is for one night only) I use 400IU in there (one capsule). I know none of that is very scientific, but...
As for giving his meds, try injecting it in a mealie and see if he'll take it that way (easier on both of you). Feel free to call me if you have questions, or just need to talk. I did 75 days in a row of meds with Cooper, who is very sweet, but refused to take them. He'd bite me, cry (that's awful), spit them out, you name it he did it. And he wasn't eating so I couldn't hide them. So, you have my sympathies.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/04/08 02:40 AM
The only thing I'm worried about with injecting them into worms is that the meds taste SO bad, that I don't think he'd eat the worms - I think he'd take one bite, then swear off worms forever!
I mean, it sure won't hurt to try - I just have a feeling I'll end up back at the syringe.
On the up side though - I've got it down to 0.5cc & 30mins to get his meds down! Much better than where we started.
He got his first pinkie ever tonight. My friend breeds "show mice" and always has extra pinkies & fuzzies in her freezer. Anyhow, I never tried them because I don't trust pet stors to have disease-free mice - but I know hers are clean, so we tried them tonight for the first time.
Afte his meds, I handed him a pinkie & he grabbed it enthusiastically, then he just looked at me...then he looked at it...then he looked at me...Like "What the heck am I supposed to do with this Mom?"
Well he figured it out, and so did the rest of my clan - I don't think I'll ever feed pinkies again! The carnage that ensued was just beyond me...
Anyhow, his appetite seems to be holding, so I've got my hopes up that he keeps his weight up. I'm going to be weighing him every Wednesday (that's the day we went to the vet, he weighed 175g, which was 10g less than last month).
Shauna - Are you adding the 400IUs to each meal ON TOP of the 1000IUs that is already in each batch? And how many gliders is that meal for? I'm confused...
Posted By: USMom
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/04/08 02:58 AM
No, the 400IU is for a one night meal, like if I run out of hpw and make scrambled eggs, I'll mix one capsule of Vit E in with it, so they get some. I have 15 gliders.
The 1000IU is mixed in when I make each batch of HPW up.
You can try the mealie thing, most of mine never even noticed. Cooper is the only one that did, but his appetite was very off, he vomited and had runny poo, so I can only assume taste was a big issue for him with his tummy being yucky.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/04/08 03:10 AM
Ok cool - one batch of Priscilla's feeds 9 gliders for about 4-5 days, I've been putting 800IUs per batch.
I'll give the worm thing a try tomorrow - I don't have mealies right now though, only waxies. My mealie shipment isn't supposed to be here unitl Tuesday.
Not so sure I can get 0.5cc in one waxie though - might take a couple...
darcy is living many many yrs with lymphoma. he is on prednisone. it takes a long time to hear from donna just keep e mailing her. darcy is outliving gliders that dont have lymphoma. he got it at 2 yrs old and is 9 now.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/04/08 05:38 PM
Thanks Karen, I have emailed Donna, hopefully she will get around to it soon.
Fawkes has me a bit worried this morning. He usually eats 11-13 waxies after his morning meds, but this morning he would only eat 3. The only thing I can think of is that maybe he's still full from all the pinkies & fuzzies I gave them last night.
I mean, it was the first night I actually saw him down at the food plate eating in a week. I don't know if he came down in the middle of the night to eat, but he hasn't been out of the pouch at all when I've gone in to check on him, except for last night.
Anyhow, I really hope he's just full, because if I can't even get him to eat worms, then we've got a problem.
Oh, I also tried injecting his meds into the worms this morning, but it was a no go. The meds are too thick - they wouldn't go through the needle.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/04/08 09:34 PM
OY - Well I waited by the mail today - several important things coming (2 were for Fawkes).
The magnets are MIA, I beleive that some mailman somewhere between here and Kansas has a lovely refrigerator arrangement at Fawkes' expense.
The V.A.L. syrup arrived, but get this - IT'S EXPIRED! I know! I called the company and they said they're sending out a new bottle today & they promise it will not expire for at least a year - but ARG, I really wanted to get him started on this.
And TGI responded today also, they will not be helping with Fawkes' MRI...
This has just been a horrid horrid week...
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/04/08 10:04 PM
Oh, that doesn't sound like a good day. How is he doing today???
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/04/08 10:44 PM
Gina, keep in mind these creatures see you as the head of the pack. If you are worried and fretting they are going to feed off of this and realize there is something wrong. Heavily.
They are dependent on you being the mommy, and right now all you can do is keep yourself together and think POSITIVELY.
Like:
"I want fawkes to get better, I want him to heal, I want him to have a healthy appetite..."
Get rid of the negative because its just making things more stressful on you and your little guy.
You will get the magnets, you will have the vitamins, you are a fantastic mommy and in the end all that matters is you ARE doing the very best you can with what you have and you will find the resources to make this situation better.
Posted By: sugarlope
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/04/08 11:42 PM
I'm sorry, Gina. I know it has been a really bad week for you.
I remember the magnets taking a while to get to me as well. I always wondered if they got stuck to the inside of some mailman's truck and it took them a couple of days to notice.
Sorry about the VAL syrup, that is ridiculous. Hope everything gets there soon!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 12:35 AM
Rofl Gretchen, I thought of that too! I keep wondering if they got stuck to his bumper or something!
Fawkes refused waxies altogether tonight - hopefully he eats his dinner. I'm going to try to hand feed him a bit tonight. He took a couple of worms from me, but he tricked me - when I took him out of the pouch, there they were, wiggling at the bottom.
Looks like I might be using the Ensure sooner than I thought...
Posted By: LSardou
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 12:50 AM
I packed them pretty good to make sure that there was no way they could get stuck!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 12:52 AM
Oh Linda, I'm sure it's just some Postal Service faux pas
Posted By: mattysmom
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 01:19 AM
Gina, you and Fawkes are in my thoughts and prayers. I'm sad to hear that you are having to deal with a health problem like this but glad he has you to take care of him.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 01:20 AM
I'd start it on ensure while you hand feed him, just so he can get used to the idea of it you know?
When Minnie Mouse was ill, and I was loosing my mind, as she was anxiety ridden I realized she was only reacting to how I was reacting.
Also maybe throughout the day take a little plastic spoon and put some chicken baby food on it. If he doesnt take that, try some honey with chicken.. and so on and so on. I noticed that when MM was sick she was doing everything she possibly could to have me wait on her hand and food.
However it seemed to do the trick. He also is upset cause he isnt with him cage mates anymore (obviously) and I am sure shock is setting in about now.
If you havent already done so, when I have to seperate someone from the crowd I set up a cage next to the "mother cage" so they can at least hear, smell, and see one another. Even went to the length of moving the Mother Cage's food shelve so whomever the unlucky one was could at the very least eat with the family.
Posted By: sugarlope
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 02:15 AM
I packed them pretty good to make sure that there was no way they could get stuck!
I knew that too, but I know when you are waiting on something your mind starts thinking up all kinds of funny things.
Posted By: BCChins
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 03:13 AM
Gina I am sorry to be reading this about Fawkes. We will be keeping you both in our thoughts. One thing i tried to get meds down is Hawaiian Delight Baby food. Maybe that will help a little bit with getting the meds in him.
Gina - I cannot describe how worried I am for Fawkes, but also how happy I am to know that he is in such good hands. What an example you are setting to all glider owners - new and old. THANK YOU for going the distance for Fawkes. THANK YOU for never giving up hope.
I am keeping ou and Fawkes in my prayers. I so wish I was closer.
have you tried something he really likes and mixing the m eds in it. but only use a tiny bit of the food he likes so he gets all the meds down.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 03:48 AM
He also is upset cause he isnt with him cage mates anymore (obviously) and I am sure shock is setting in about now.
If you havent already done so, when I have to seperate someone from the crowd I set up a cage next to the "mother cage" so they can at least hear, smell, and see one another. Even went to the length of moving the Mother Cage's food shelve so whomever the unlucky one was could at the very least eat with the family.
I have not separated him from his family, I don't see the need to. Separating him would just stress him out and further aggravate the cancer. He needs his family right now.
Karen - mixing the meds in food doesn't work. There is far to much meds & the taste is too strong to hide in anything. I can give him less if I just mix it with water. If I mix it with food (yogurt, pudding, etc) he has to ingest 3 times as much to get his meds down.
Brenda - I bought some Hawaiian Delight, but with the other "fruity" baby foods, it only seemed to heighten the bitterness of the herbals - so I haven't used it yet. It seems like the milkier things, like pudding, tone it down best. But I have to use a lot of it in order for it not to turn into a rock - For it to be a workable paste, I need about 1.5ccs of pudding, which is a lot for a wee glider. This is why I switched to water. I can use about 0.5 -0.75cc of water...
I'm going to go pick up some avocado tomorrow & we're going to have a mini glider buffet & try to find something he'll eat. I sat with him tonight & picked the peas & corn out of his Priscilla's mix & he wouldn't even take those. My mealie shipment should be here tomorrow too, maybe he'll find those more palatable than the waxies, I dunno...
Maybe he's eating in the middle of the night when I'm asleep & I just don't know it (*crossing fingers*). I guess we'll see when we have his weigh-in on Wednesday.
Thanks guys, for all your support...
Posted By: hipbchik
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 03:48 AM
I asked about the Essiac & she said that there are no clinical trials to back it up, and that there are over 40 different formulas being marketed as Essiac in North America right now - so really there's nothing to say that it doesn't work, but there's nothing to say it does either.
Sorry I haven't been on lately between a schedule change at work, and drill...however...when it comes to Essiac, Essiac Canada International is the ONLY authorized distributor, with the ONLY true recipie as originally turned over by Nurse Renee Caisse. They have Essiac for pets, at this site:
http://www.essiacforpets.com/ a phone number is listed and they recommend calling them for info before ordering...may I suggest calling them? It surely can not hurt...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 04:10 AM
Thanks Carolyn - but according to their charts, I'd have to give him about 14.5g of the Essiac powder twice a day. That's a lot!
With the 2 herbals I'm giving now, combined, they are less than 0.4g twice a day - and I'm already having trouble getting that down him.
The only thing I wonder is how the powder tastes. If it has the same horrid taste that these herbals have or if it tastes better. Have you ever tasted it outside the capsule (I realize that's a very strange question)?
I wouldn't stop giving his current meds, just because my vet has had success with other animals (and people). But it might be an option for an addition if it's something fairly tastless that could be added to food.
Posted By: hipbchik
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 04:34 AM
Thanks Carolyn - but according to their charts, I'd have to give him about 14.5g of the Essiac powder twice a day. That's a lot!
With the 2 herbals I'm giving now, combined, they are less than 0.4g twice a day - and I'm already having trouble getting that down him.
The only thing I wonder is how the powder tastes. If it has the same horrid taste that these herbals have or if it tastes better. Have you ever tasted it outside the capsule (I realize that's a very strange question)?
I wouldn't stop giving his current meds, just because my vet has had success with other animals (and people). But it might be an option for an addition if it's something fairly tastless that could be added to food.
I can't say I've ever tried it outside the capsule...I was doing the Tea for a while,, & it was truly not a very pleasant taste...
As for the 14.5g 2X daily, I'm thinking that is for larger animals...that's why I think calling them would be best; I'm not sure they'll know what a Glider is, but maybe they could consult with Dr. Tristan?
Posted By: KattyM
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 05:58 AM
Wow, Gina, my heart goes out to you.
I'm so sorry to hear about little Fawkes' condition, and the ongoing challenges you're facing.
Hang in there! He couldn't be in better hands. Your continued love and support, in all ways, is powerful medicine as well.
Do you have a gram scale that you can use to weigh him each morning? I picked up one at Wal-Mart for not too much money. I know it's overkill, but now all three of my babies know the routine of being weighed as soon as I take them out of the pouch to go in my bra for the day. (Hiroshi was overweight and needed to lose 30 grams and I wanted to make sure he was the only one losing weight.)
Here's another fruit to ask your vet about:
acai berry.
Would peanut butter work to mix his meds in? It's thick and has a strong taste. Or maybe almond butter or cashew butter?
Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
Posted By: sugarglidersuz
Re: Fawkes has Lymphoma... - 08/05/08 08:20 AM
Please go HERE for the continuation of this topic...
Posted By: sugarglidersuz
Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/05/08 08:21 AM
For Part 1, please see This Thread...
Posted By: sugarglidersuz
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/05/08 08:24 AM
Gina, I'm so very sorry that you are having to go through this with Fawkes. Please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers
Posted By: Xfilefan
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/05/08 11:54 AM
Posted By: Xfilefan
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/05/08 12:12 PM
Gina, ideas for the meds: Melt some vanilla ice cream or fruit sorbet in a spoon and try mixing that in as a flavoring-it might help them go down easier. I've used both. I've also used Rose's Watermelon drink Mixer for Riker's Thyroxine-nothing in it that will hurt him, it's mostly sugar with flavoring and color-if he likes watermelon, or they also make flavors like blue raspberry and a few others.
Posted By: mattysmom
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/05/08 01:36 PM
Gina - at one point, Priscilla's diet called for Gatorade (powder mix with water to taste). My gliders lapped it up. A dab of honey and yogurt helped once when I had to give meds.
Posted By: glidrz5
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/05/08 09:47 PM
Gina, I was talking with Jen today & she said that "Scientific Americana" (I think that was the magazine's name) had a special issue out on Cancer with new information in it. She had just picked it up at the store & as she was paging through it thought it might be helpful for you & Fawkes.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 12:25 AM
Ok, so I'm typing one handed because Fawkes just had his first magnet treatment & fell fast asleep on my stomach, without a pouch, just out in the open! I guess he liked it! (((HUGS))) Linda!
Also, my mealie shipment arrived this afternoon and Fawkes ate 20 of them! In fact, he could hardly wait for me to hand them to him, he was ripping at them like a wild man! Apparently he was just sick of waxies! Whew!
Katty - thanks for the tips, I'll have to try the peanut butter. I have heard of Acai berry, will definately have to check that out & ask the vet for dosing.
I tried vanilla Ensure today since it's not much thicker than water, but man it turned into cement as soon as it hit that powder!
I heard about that article, I'm going to have to track it down.
Also, something else happened today...
Fawkes' is going to the University of Tennessee Veterinary Teaching Hospital to get a CT Scan/Radiograph to see if his cancer has spread. I can't go into details, all I can say is that Fawkes has a guardian angel looking out for him!
Today is a good day...
Posted By: Cora
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 01:55 AM
sounds good Gina..........thank goodness for glider angels!!!
Posted By: TracieB
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 02:20 AM
I'm glad today is a good day.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 02:21 AM
Keep us updated on how is guardian angel appointment goes
Posted By: reeny
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 02:30 AM
Glad you had a good day Gina. Keep us posted on the CT scan.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 03:37 AM
Gina, thanks so much for the update! You 2 are definitely in my thoughts and prayers!
Posted By: hipbchik
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 06:16 AM
Gina,
Glad to hear another angel came to your rescue...here's hoping Fawkes' test comes out better than expected. I'll light a candle...
Posted By: Xfilefan
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 09:42 AM
Gina, this may have some insights for you and Fawkes-it's new because it was not on the newsstands before I left for the SGGA and is now-and yes I love geeky magazines-
Scientific American
Special Edition: New Answers for Cancer
--Cutting edge drugs and research--
(display until Sept. 30, 2008)
What caught my interest is they have the results of the ANIMAL TESTING in the articles-the entire edition is on cancer and new research-things that worked, things that didn't, things that may decrease tumor size/growth.
I saw it and grabbed it, thinking of you and Fawkes-I can send it if you want-if you can find it that'll probably be quicker, but if you want me to overnight this I can-I just need an addy (don't have your new one).
I won't have time tonight at work to look, and don't know if the special edition articles are here, but here is their website also:
Scientific American**:
http://www.sciam.com/A note on a source of acai that is easy to get, yummy, and shouldn't overdose him while waiting to ask the vet, also: Vitamin Water XXX (triple X is the flavor)-I believe it's made by Glaceau...the same folks that make the Smart Water-the stuff that looks/tastes just like plain water but has electrolytes in it-good stuff to take with you for your gliders if you take them out in the heat.
Thanks Chris and LSardou for the help this morning-new it would be very late before I could get on if at all tonight.
Mods-I didn't see anything objectionable at the site, but if you need to remove the link, that's fine-could you PM it to Gina if that's the case?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 06:18 PM
I actually wrote a 3 page paper a year or so ago on the benefits of Acai (because I am a big holistic fan). So Gina PM me with your email and I will send it away.
There is also an Acai drink called Bossa Nova which doesnt have guarana like some of the Sambazon (find at whole foods) Sorbets and Drinks. XXX doesnt have guarana either, however, I wouldnt trust the extracts that Glaceau uses as they are probably cheap and non beneficial.
However the XXX probably is a bit more enticing so you could do a cut of Bossa Nova (whole foods) with XXX,
If you arent near a Whole foods I can mail these too you when I am in my office tomorrow.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 06:21 PM
or you could try soaking parrot or monkey biscuit in the acai mix too.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 07:40 PM
Ya, here in the South, you don't find too many holistic, organic, whole foody type places! LOL - now, I'm originally from CA, so I sure miss them & wish you could find that stuff, but you just don't see it.
There is one tiny lil shop out in Johnson City that may carry it, though they are mostly supplements & the like. I can call them & see if they have it. I wish I'd have known, I was out that way earlier today (it's like 45 mins away).
I did Fawkes first weekly weigh-in since his vet appt. last week. If you'll remember, he weighed-in last Wednesday at 175g - today he's at 180g. I know, it's weird - I can't explain it either. I thought maybe the vet's scale was different than mine, so I weighed a small bottle on my scale, then took it to my vet's office & had them weigh it on their scale & it weighed the same. So, he really did gain 5g in a week. I am hand-feeding him more worms than he's used to, but I don't think he's eating as much in his cage at night. I really don't know...
Anyhow, here's the BIG news. Fawkes has an appointment tomorrow morning at UT where he will have a consult with a veterinary oncologist, who will perform a CT/Radiograph to see if the cancer has spread. Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/06/08 07:45 PM
Gina, I will certainly keep BOTH of you in my prayers! Thanks again for all of the updates! :hugs2
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/07/08 01:33 AM
Gina, you guys will continue to be in our prayers here. Good luck to little Fawkes tomorrow!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/07/08 01:40 AM
Gina,
Please let me know if ther is anything that we can do to help. I am praying deeply for you.
Love ya girl!
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/07/08 01:46 AM
Crossing everything and sending tons on top of tons of prayers......please let us know as soon as you know anything. Praying for even a mini miracle.......God bless you both!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/07/08 02:30 AM
Thanks guys, we're leaving here by 8am at the absolute latest - it's a little over a 2hr drive.
I have NO idea how long it'll take, but I'll be sure to post as soon as I get back.
Posted By: Srlb
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/07/08 06:55 PM
Gina called me, she asked me to post. She is in Knoxville at the University today with Fawkes. They are going to be doing a radiograpgh and a CT Scan to check for cancer in other lymphnodes.
They also told her that just because there are lymphocites present in cytology reports, it does not mean it is cancerous.
They may be doing another biopsy or even going in and removing the tumor that is present. If they are able to get the whole tumor out, it will not aggravate anything if indeed there is more cancer throughout his body.
Pray for Fawkes and pray that Gina doesnt get too lost!!
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/07/08 06:59 PM
Thank you for this update.....maybe they will get a miracle!!! Praying very hard, please post if you hear anymore.
Posted By: Cora
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/08/08 01:55 AM
has anyone talked with Gina. still crossing all crossables!!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/08/08 02:41 AM
Ok, I am home! Whew! I have been home for about an hour, but I had to give Fawkes his meds & do his magnet therapy & feed the other monkeys, so I am wiped out!
Here's the gist:
Fawkes (all suggies) was too small to do an MRI - they said the magnet was too big & the picture would just look like a blob. He was also too small to do an IV catheter, so they could not use injectable dye on him and the vet said that without the injectable dye, the CT scan wouldn't show anything useful, so we did a radiograph.
The radiograph showed that he has a second mass under his armpit on the same side as the big tumor on his neck. The second tumor is about the size of the tip of your pinkie (where the nail is) - now that I know where it is, I can feel it.
They took samples from both tumors (by fine needle aspiration) and sent them to pathology, but the lab was closed by the time they got there, so we have to wait until morning to get the results.
He said that just because there are lymphocytes present does not mean it is lymphoma - there have to be a certain number of them within a certain area & they have to be exhibiting a certain behavior (in layman's terms).
He said it does look like cancer, but it could be benign or malignant, and that is what we will see tomorrow when we get the test results back. Dependant on the type of cancer (carcinoma, sarcoma, lymphoma, etc), we will treat accordingly. If it is benign, we will do surgery and perhaps chemo (yes, chemo is possible for suggies). If it is malignant, we may do surgery, but some malignant cancers are extremely aggravated by surgery, so again, we will have to wait and see. Chemo may be our only option (besides homeopathic) if it is malignant).
They said they will call me tomorrow afternoon after they get the results, consult will oncology, and come up with a course of treatment.
Until then, I need to write a list of questions, otherwise I will never remember them when I actually have them on the phone. Peggy has already reminded me that I need to get copies of his charts, and that I need to ask them if they have done this type of surgery on sugar gliders before (that way I know if I need to give them consult vet contact info). And Teresa asked me how big the incision was going to be & I had no idea. So if you guys think of anything I should ask them, please help me!
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/08/08 02:45 AM
Oh, what a long day for you both!! Sorry they were not able to get the first two tests and also they found another lump. But there is the chance it is not malignant, so we are all praying for that!!!! Try to get a little rest tonight. You both must be dog tired!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/08/08 02:47 AM
Exhausted Mary!
And I forgot to say - Whatever they decide, surgery, chemo, both...I have another appt in Knoxville on Monday to make it happen...
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/08/08 02:49 AM
Gina, not trying to compare here, but I was terrifed Timmy's was cancer and it turned out not to be. Praying Fawkes will have the same result! God bless you both! You will fight this together. And we will be praying for you both through it all!!!
Posted By: LSardou
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/08/08 03:03 AM
The both of you. Sending lots of love, light, and blessings Gina! Please try and get some rest.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/08/08 03:23 AM
Gina, I'm so glad you guys are back home & OK.
Prayers &
to you both.
Posted By: BCChins
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/08/08 03:15 PM
Gina you are a wonderful glider Mommy and we are all keeping positive thoughts for Fawkes. Glad you got another opinion and more options if you need them.
Thank you for keeping us updated.
Lots of Hugs
for you both
Posted By: Cora
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/08/08 11:16 PM
Gina, Been thinking of you today...................was hoping the results were in..............HUGS........................Post when you can.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:15 AM
Hi - I'm sorry, I didn't get the results until around 5-ish, then I haven't been able to get online until now.
It is lymphoma - this is the worst possible news, we did not want this.
As of right now, they want to refrain from surgery, start oral prednisone daily, and subcutaneous chemotherapy every 2-3 weeks.
The main UT clinician is going to a conference tomorrow where he is going to meet with a colleage who works with sugar gliders quite a bit - he says he is going to consult with her about their plan & let me know if she has anything new to add & call me back tomorrow evening.
He is also going to talk to my vet to see if she can do the chemo so that I don't have to go to Knoxville every 2-3 weeks.
I really have more questions now than anything. I didn't even ask if they had ever done chemo on a glider. I am just so frazzled right now, I keep forgetting everything I am supposed to ask them. I had a list, but when he called, I was in the other room and I was so busy writing down what he was saying that I didn't get up & go get my list! I think I'll write my new list on my arm - this way I'll have it with me...
I also keep wondering - my vet AND one of their vets said that steroids could protect the tumor, so why do they want to give prednisone now? I'm so confused...
Linda - If you're reading, I keep noticing that when I do the magnet treatments, Fawkes gets almost catatonic - like he just freezes & stares blankly, he doesn't even blink - is this common/normal? He even stays that way for quite a while after the treatment - like almost until I move him or until he gets startled...
Posted By: Srlb
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:25 AM
Gina, I am sorry for the outcome. It isnt what any of us wanted.
Sweetie, before you start chemo, PLEASE talk with Donna first. Darcy did not, to my knowledge, have ANY type of chemo therapy and he is STILL alive and well today.
I just cant help but imagine what chemo treatments would do to a glider. And we all know that gliders do not handle vomitting at all. That is a HUGE concern for me, personally.
Sweetie, I know you just want to do everything possible for Fawkes, but the whole chemo treatment just really gives me a bad taste in my mouth. Gliders are just too small for something so powerful. That is why I asked you if they have ever done it on a glider before.
I'm going to make a couple calls tomorrow as well and ask some questions...
Posted By: USMom
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:27 AM
Gina, I am so sorry about your news
I would be heartbroken.
I am terrible with being diplomatic, so I am just going to say this, and hope you don't take offense. If you do, I apologize, because the last thing I want to do while you are dealing with this is hurt your feelings. Here I go. I suggest a second opinion. From what I know of chemo it is miserable, and while the point is to save his life, he doesn't understand, and to me that is cruel. I know Darcy went through nutritional therapy and is still alive. Maybe your vet has some recommendations about this, as well.
Again, I am not trying to hurt feelings, just suggest another alternative.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:28 AM
Thanks Peggy - I can't get a hold of Donna, I would love to talk to her! If you could talk to Tim, I would like to hear what he thinks about all this...
Posted By: Dancing
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:29 AM
I'm so sorry Gina. I was so hoping for better news.
I was just on the phone with Mary. She has never heard of a glider being given chemo. Also, she said she isn't real comfortable with the prednisone either but had another call before she could explain why.
I know how/what steriods, specifically prednisone, does to me. It makes me completely crazy and suicidal. Extremely. It also makes me feel like my skin is crawling.
I personally, would have a fear of how the steriods will effect Fawkes emotionally/mentally. Now, I'm not saying it will effect gliders the same way but I'd be watching him like a hawk and be ready with an ecollar. If it were me, I'd be too afraid of self mutilation based on how prednisone made ME feel.
Posted By: Srlb
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:31 AM
Gina, can you please ask the clinic if they could fax over his report on Fawkes...
PMing you the fax number...
Posted By: Dancing
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:36 AM
Also, Gina...ya know I love you and would never hurt you but I agree with Shawna...I think the chemo would be cruel. It is very harsh and Fawkes wouldn't be able to understand what is going on. In this case, I think quality of life is more important.
I hope you can get ahold of Donna and can talk in length with her about Darcy. For me, I couldn't do to any of my gliders what that vet is suggesting you do to Fawkes.
I'm not saying give up by any means at all but I just don't think that chemo and steriods are the answer either. There has to be a better way. Atleast a way that will help him feel better during the time he has. And I will continue to pray that his time is like Darcy's...long and wonderful.
Posted By: Cora
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:36 AM
Oh so not what I wanted to hear but was afraid of after you mentioned he had another growth.......................I opted against chemo and steroids for my Rocky for the above mentioned reasons. Plus this was 2 years ago. They have come a little way since then but I am not sure THAT far. I am here if you want to talk sweetie!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:38 AM
I suggest a second opinion. From what I know of chemo it is miserable, and while the point is to save his life, he doesn't understand, and to me that is cruel.
That's the thing Shawna, this is my second opinion - so now I have 2 differing opinions - I need a tie-breaker. One of the vets said don't do steroids, one said do it. One vet said you can't even do chemo on a glider, the other is saying do it. And the one telling me to do it is supposed to be a "team of specialists".
Answer me this - I thought there was no cure for cancer - so what is chemotherapy? Why are there cancer survivors if ther is no cure? Is chemo just going to extend his life, or will it eventually get rid of the cancer? If it will only extend his life, but will make him miserable the whole time, then I don't want to do it. If we caught it early enough that we can beat it with chemo & he can live a long life, then ok, we need to discuss it.
Ellen - does Bruce have any thoughts on this?
Posted By: Srlb
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:45 AM
Gina, cancer never goes away....it can go into remission...meaning you can either 1) stop the growth of the tumor to where it does no more damage or 2) you can shrink the tumor, sometimes to where there is no signs left. But honestly, it never goes away.
Now with that being said, there are those cancer survivors that have say breast cancer, and they catch it early enough. They remove the breast and all the problems there and do a dose of radiation or chemo to make sure all cancer cells are killed off, and in some cases, there are no more signs of cancer, ever. In other cases, it shows up later down the road, somewhere else.
Your best bet would be to talk to some of our wonderful cancer survivors here on the board. Such as Karin, Kris, Carolyn, to name the first few that come to mind....they can tell you more about it first hand.
Posted By: queenduck
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:47 AM
Gina, sorry hun? None of us can give you the right answer.
I have seen people on Chemo and seen people on high dose Prednisone, it is not pretty on the best of days. I say let him spend whatever time he has left in the most natural way, use magnets, research diet, give him lots of extra love and attention, and if the time comes where he looks uncomfortable, use pain meds to ease his discomfort. I can't suggest experimental treatments that will make him feel horrible and may not work, or may only work at adding a little more time... but not quality time.
But it doesn't mater what we think, you have to do what you feel is best in your heart, we will be here for you with eithor choice.
Posted By: Dancing
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:48 AM
Gina...what I learned with my mom's lung cancer and the chemo she went through is this...
chemo can reduce the tumors and even stop the growth of them, putting the person into "remission". The cancer is still there and can start to regrow at any time. Often coming out of remission, the cancer comes back stronger and more agressive than before. My mom went through chemo twice in 4 years as well as radiation (which I would NOT do to an animal) and yet she still died due to the lung cancer.
Many of those, like me, that have survived cancer, survived because of surgery. The cancerous mass was removed and in my case, they got it all. With some, the surgery is done to remove what they can and then chemo is used to "zap" the rest and put the person into remission. But once a person has cancer, there is always the chance for that cancer to come back again, even for me.
Posted By: USMom
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:51 AM
My thought is that Fawkes doesn't understand why he is miserable and sick and everytime mom takes him in the car he gets sicker. You can explain it to a person, that they will get better, but not to him. I know you are posting for opinions thoughts, etc... there is mine.
Honestly, do you let him die, do you put him to sleep, do you do the chemo, make him miserable then maybe he lives longer because of it, is there something else? I don't know, and you are the one there, in those shoes. I know you are looking for as much hope as there is right now, and if I had a magic wand, pill, cast a spell, say a prayer whatever, he would be whole and healthy. I wish I had answers not more questions.
I know Peggy is trying to get ahold of Tim. I will ask my vet, who Tim went to school with, and see what he has to add, too.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:54 AM
This sucks...
If anyone is is phone contact with Donna, could you PLEASE call her & ask her to PM or email me, or ask GC Admin for my phone #...
Posted By: Srlb
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:55 AM
Karin has her number Gina
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:56 AM
No she doesn't
Posted By: Srlb
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:57 AM
Have you pmed her?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:58 AM
Yes, and emailed her...
Posted By: Srlb
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:59 AM
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 02:59 AM
TY, I need a lot of those right now...
Posted By: desertmommy
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 03:07 AM
Posted By: Cora
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 03:34 AM
Posted By: LSardou
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 03:37 AM
Linda - If you're reading, I keep noticing that when I do the magnet treatments, Fawkes gets almost catatonic - like he just freezes & stares blankly, he doesn't even blink - is this common/normal? He even stays that way for quite a while after the treatment - like almost until I move him or until he gets startled...
Gina, yes this is a normal response. The magnetic field will act as a calming agent on the nervous system.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 03:39 AM
Gina, knowing what I know about cancer (my mother had the same as Teresa's mother) and what I know about animals in general..and well, gliders, my heart felt advice is this..
Personally, I wouldn't go with chemo or the steroids.
I KNOW how much you love Fawkes lady, I love mine like that too. There are some times when we just can't allow our babies to go through more agony. If Fawkes is eating, playing, etc., love him this way. I just lost the most precious thing to me, Peanut. Sometimes, we do everything to save someone and in reality we are being a bit selfish. We can't let go, we WON'T let go. What happens is we end up hurting ourselves more and only having more questions than answers. Actually, I believe at times we hurt the others more by trying to save them.
I know my mother had had enough when she told me to 'let me go' but I couldn't. In the end, she passed away leaving me more angry and with even more questions about what could have been done differently.
It's bad enough when people cannot tolerate the sickness and pain of chemo, the remissions, knowing most likely the cancer will return (not always) but with our gliders, they have no idea why they are going through so much pain and suffering.
To us, our gliders ARE our children and we want to do everything in our power to save them, but...sometimes, we can end up doing more harm than good.
My advice is to give him all the love in the world, leave your touch of tenderness on his heart and soul...so that if Fawkes does glide to heaven sooner than later, all he will have known is love and a gentle touch, not pain and sickness.
I'm so sorry Gina, these are only my thoughts after what I've been through. Please don't hate me for saying these things, I personally believe just loving him for the time left is best. I pray you get to talk to Donna soon, in the meantime, I am praying hard for your little guy..and you.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 03:58 AM
Gina, I'm so so soooooo sorry to hear about this. I'm just now catching up. Poor Fawes! I so know you want to do everything possible to get him through this. He is such a precious little guy. But, if we're taking a poll, I'd have to say I'm with Shawna, Alicia, T and Peggy. I would go the naturopathic route, with nutrition, supplements, magnets, whatever you think might work, but I agree that chemo would just be too rough on a glider.
When I lost Jeepers, I had a certain amount of guilt over the last couple days of her life when I was forcing food, fluids and medications down her in an effort to keep her around. I'm afraid maybe I was doing it more for myself and Sydney and only extended her suffering. In fact, that's exactly what Sydney and I were discussing when she took her last breaths and died in our hands. Okay, can't talk about that anymore, but suffice it to say that I think quality of life trumps quantity in this situation.
All that being said, it is your decision. If you decide to go big guns after it, I am with you.
Okay, here's some more of these:
Posted By: Feather
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 04:12 AM
My heart aches for you and little Fawkes. After watching my mom have chemo, go into remmission and then have it flair up again a month after she was considered in remmission then lose her three weeks later because she got pnuemonia from having no white cells in her body because the chemo did its job. I could never put one of my beloved pets or horses through that.
Chemo is so toxic that when mom had her IV leak they got a hazmat team in wearing suits to clean up the small spot on the carpeting.
I can't imagine what a little sugar glider would go through as they can't understand why they are so sick, when the medicine that is suppose to get them into remmission almost kills them in the process.
I will keep you and little Fawkes in my prayers. May God watch over that little sweetie.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 04:43 AM
Chemo is so toxic that when mom had her IV leak they got a hazmat team in wearing suits to clean up the small spot on the carpeting.
I had almost forgotten my mother suffered 3rd degree, yes, 3rd degree burns from the chemo when the I.V broke in her hand. Her entire left hand had to be treated at the burn unit for months. I've always wondered what on earth that stuff does to the INSIDE of the body.
Posted By: LSardou
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 05:05 AM
Gina, even though I've explained to you what the magnetic treatments have proven, I will write a brief summary here for those who are following this thread.
I spent 8 years at the University of Arizona studying the effects of magnetic fields on skin cancer, which is the hardest cancer to treat.
After 3 consecutive studies, the results had shown that with the cancer cell exposed to the magnetic field it causes the tumor to necrose from inside out, leaving 0 invasion to the blood vessels, muscles, and surrounding tissue.
The tests showed that after 8 hours of exposure the cellular structure of the cell looses it's viability and can no longer attach to proliferate.
We also discovered that iron surrounds the cell itself, which is one of the main reasons for chemo treatments is to dissolve the iron while trying to destroy the cancer itself. In our studies, it has shown that since iron is 'paramagnetic' exposure to the infected area breaks up that iron barrier and allows the iron to dispose through the normal functioning channels in the body.
Our tumor growth rate decreased in the treated group by 70%, with no tissue, muscle, or blood vessel invasion. All the tumors in the treated group had also necrosed from the 'core' outwards. Whereas the non-treated groups tumors grew to their full capacity with partial to full invasion through the CNS, muscle, and surrounding tissue.
Investigative Radiology-Volume 27, Number 10
Posted By: Usha77
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 06:38 AM
Posted By: Ellen
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 08:49 AM
Gina, Bruce just home about midnight and I did not read this then.
I will ask him in the morning and he or I will post. You can always call us. Since he didnt get to bed until late and I am still up call after 11AM. He will be glad to talk to you and that might help.
One way or the other we will be in touch OK?
Posted By: glidrz5
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 09:58 AM
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 01:18 PM
Gina, I went through exactly what you're explaining with two seventeen year old cats a few years ago. Man, it's hard.
What was right for us was palliative care. Treatment would have been traumatic and damaged both cats severely. They told us in their own way when they were ready to go.
Do your research though. Maybe the treatment available to you isn't brutal for the baby.
Posted By: BCChins
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 01:40 PM
Gina I am so sorry to read the results on Fawkes. Please know I am here for you any time day or night just call. I work 3rd shift so if in the middle of the night (or day) you find you need to vent or talk PLEASE feel free to call me 860-508-4853 as sometime those are the loneliest times when you lay there and think.
Many
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 01:55 PM
Gina,
First off, I want to say how terribly sorry it is Lymphoma. I was praying for anything else.
Now I have to agree, having had an animal with cancer and seeing what it does to them (and this was a 112 lb dog) I would not think a glider could handle it. My biggest concern is the risk to his other organs. Chemo may kill cancer cells, but it also kills a lot of other cells, as well. I am not trying to make this harder for you, believe me. When Jake was diagnosed, I knew he would want to fight but after seeing how it affected him, I don't know if I were ever faced with it again that I would/could do it. I so wish Donna would call you! The steroids are another one......I don't see why they would give it with Lymphoma. My bil's dog had Lymphoma and she had been on pred for other issues, but they had to take her off for the very reason stated (it would alter the effects of the chemo), so that has me confused.
Sadly, this is a very hard decision, as the bottom line is, weighing trying to extend his life, to what the quality of it will be in doing so. My heart goes out to you, as it is an almost impossible choice.
I know when Timmy's lump was removed, I discussed it with her (if it was cancer, what our options were) and she said that chemo was not safely possible in a glider. That from what she knew, it had been tried, but not with the best results and she felt the risks outweighed everything.
I am lighting a candle and sending prayers for clarity and stregnth for you. I know this is a heartwrenching decision either way.
How is Fawkes doing today? When Jake was sick, my vet kept saying to me 'treat the dog, not the disease.' In other words, watch him, see how he is doing. Don't keep thinking 'but he has cancer'. Was he eating, was he playing, doing the things that gave him quality of life. God, I wish I had some better answers for you. Know you have my love and prayers.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 04:03 PM
Hi Gina.... I am kind of new to Sugar Gliders but was a Oncology RN for years. I have no idea about Sugar Glider Chemo but I wanted to tell you how far they have come with Lymphoma Tx Chemo for us human animals. I agree with everyones comments about QUALITY of life but because I have seen good outcomes with Chemo Tx (some people tolerate it and side effects well) I just wanted to tell you what I tell people facing these issues. Discuss with the Drs / Vets probable side effects and how other small fragile animals have done with same tx. If the info they give you is acceptable and If Fawkes is doing well, strong, eating and drinking, consider it. You can always quit and just give supportive care and love. My thoughts are with you. No matter what... Fawkes is lucky to have you.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 04:41 PM
Thank you everyone - after sleeping on it (or rather, not sleeping), I have decided against the chemo. If it will only extend his life, I don't want that extension to be miserable. Whatever time he has left needs to be as good as it can be...
As far as the steroids, I am still on the fence. I have 2 differing opinions from vets. I know that both Lord Darcy & Kira were on them & both of those gliders are still with us. Kira had a different type of cancer, but Darcy was diagnosed with Lymphoma. I have asked Peggy to talk with Dr. Tristan today & get his opinion. Also, the vet from UT is consulting with another suggie vet today & is supposed to get back with me this evening.
Fawkes is doing well - he stays in his pouch a bit more than he used to, but he is eating and is brite-eyed. He was out and about with his family last night at dinner time.
I'll post again once I've heard from the UT vet & from eggy about Dr. Tristan's advice...
Posted By: Ellen
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 04:42 PM
Gina, this is Bruce posting. I would prefer talking to you than posting as I have some questions. Let me know if you want us to call or you may call me. Ellen said you have our phone number.
Will be waiting to hear from you.
Bruce
Posted By: BRoss
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 04:49 PM
Gina, I found out how to change our names. Just to let you know it was me that wrote the above post.
Posted By: Feather
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 07:02 PM
Gina,
I know it was a difficult decision to not put little Fawkes through Chemo. I feel in my heart that you made the right decision.
The day after my mom died, my dad said to me that he wished that mom would have just come home to pass on instead of going through Chemo agian. She suffered so much those last three weeks. I know mom wanted the Chemo because she felt she needed to fight for Dad's sake as she was dad's primary caregiver since he had his stroke in '95.
I will pray that the lord gives you a lot of time with little Fawkes, make the most of each moment you have with him.
Prayers,
Posted By: Cora
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/09/08 09:53 PM
Gina............still thinking of you both..........this is so close to my heart that Rocky still has a piece of....................................I so wish you and Fawkes my best!!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/10/08 02:03 AM
Well, the doc from UT never called me this evening like he promised...
Peggy did talk to Dr. Tristan, but he would like to see Fawkes' charts & UT would not fax them over today since it's Saturday. They said I can call back on Monday & put in a request. So I will make sure Tim gets them on Monday.
Thank you everyone for all the advice and warm wishes. Even though I may not respond to every post, I am reading them all & trying to make the best decisions for Fawkes.
Posted By: hipbchik
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/10/08 02:10 AM
Gina, I'm so sorry for all you are going through...I'll keep a candle burning for Fawkes...hang in there girl, we're all behind you all the way!
Posted By: sugarlope
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/10/08 04:24 AM
Gina, I'm so sorry I've been away and missed all of this. Lord Darcy has Non-Hodgekins Lymphoma. Kira's tumor is undiagnosed because she was so weak at the time that we decided against biopsy and now that she is healthier, the vets around here are afraid to rock her boat. Oh, we
have tried the blood draw twice, but either they didn't know what specifically enough to look for or something because nothing came back conclusive as the sample size was too small both times. Sorry I'm not any help there. She still has the lump in her abdomen, but we won't know difinitively what it is until something happens to her, which I know is no help to anyone else.
As far as the prednisone, I can only tell you my experiences with Kira. She was on it for 2 years before I took her off recently (because I wanted to see how she'd do without...fingers crossed, she is holding steady). She had NO adverse affects on the daily dosage (and none while weaning off either) she is also smaller than Fawkes or Darcy and there were some months she was on the same dosage.
That does not mean that no other glider will have an adverse reaction. All I can say is FOR KIRA given everything we have done for her together...and I have followed Donna's instructions to the letter as best I could (as I cannot catch live bugs where I live), along with the magnets (thank you to Linda) she has done better than was thought possible considering where she started when they found the mass.
I have so many prayers for you both and I wish I could tell you there was a right answer. But the time you spend with him for however long you have is right and the love and connection you share with him during this time will stay with you forever.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/10/08 04:52 PM
Ok, I just got off the phone with Bruce & Ellen - it looks like I will have to find out what type of Lymphoma Fawkes has in order to decide how best to treat him. I still don't think chemo is right for him, but steroids may be the right path.
Tomorrow I am going to call UT & have them explain the type of lymphoma - I need to know if it is large or small cell, acute or chronic, etc... I also need to have them recheck his radiograph & see if his liver is affected at all.
I will also have them fax a copy of his charts to Dr. Tristan, and mail a copy to me.
I found out why I haven't heard from Donna - I guess she doesn't have internet access, and only comes in town occassionally to get online, so I guess I'll hear from her when I hear from her. I did, however, get the contact info for Lord Darcy's vet.
I also received a copy of a study done on turmeric & cancer, where the turmeric kept the cancer cells from dividing - has anyone heard of this? Or used it?
Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/10/08 05:12 PM
Gina, here is a start for you about turmeric and cancer studies, looks promising. This is from the ACS (American Cancer Society)
Turmeric cancer studies
Posted By: angelic4296
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/11/08 05:27 AM
First Gina, I'm soooooo sorry. This all stinks and I am praying for the both of you.
I have been on Prednisone on and off my WHOLE LIFE - 27 years. The important thing with prednisone is to be consistent - this steroid replaces the natural hormones and chemicals that one's adrenal gland would naturally give off on its own, so when you give prednisone, the adrenal gland slows down ALOT because what it's used to giving off in the body is now being given artificially. If you start on a high dose, make sure to taper it VERY SLOWLY, to give the adrenal gland a chance to start working again. Otherwise, you risk adrenal failure, which can be fatal.
Other things to keep in mind with prednisone: weight gain (as with any steroid), bones becoming more porous - mine are already at 27, mood changes, restlessness.
However, with all that said, it's been a miracle drug for me. The pros for me outweigh the cons. It controls inflammation and pain very well, and maybe the vet is thinking it will prevent tumor growth? If you have any questions about prednisone, don't hesitate to ask me - I'm unfortunately very knowledgable on it and can tell you what I've seen as the bad and good with my body after 27 years on it. I'm sending good thoughts your way!!!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/11/08 05:45 AM
Hey Gina,
I wanted to just let you know that yes, there are numerous reports of tumeric or curcumin studies on numerous cancers; breast, prostate, oral, colon including several types of lymphoma (but Im not expert) . I Pm'd you the information Gina, you can have your doctor's read the complete articles.
You are so strong, stay with peace and love wonderful.
xox
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/11/08 05:09 PM
Just a quick update because I have someone coming over to visit their puppy -
I talked to UT:
They said that they cannot find out what type of Lymphoma it is based off of the fine needle aspiration, they would need to do a biopsy to know the type.
They also can't see if his liver is affected based on a radiograph, they would need an ultrasound.
They have never done chemo in a glider, only dogs, cats, and ferrets. And they wanted to use something that sounded like cytoxan? I asked him to spell it, but he couldn't. I told him we would not be using Fawkes for the first clinical trials of chemp on a glider. Thanks anyways.
He said that without the chemo, the steroids would not work and they would become refractory, meaning he would just not respond to them.
So basically, it was a big 'ol useless phone call...
Posted By: sugarlope
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/11/08 10:05 PM
Posted By: hipbchik
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/11/08 10:15 PM
So basically, it was a big 'ol useless phone call...
UGH...how frustrating, I'm so sorry!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/11/08 11:24 PM
There is a chemo drug called Cytoxan.... it is very harsh.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/12/08 01:52 AM
I can't understand why a vet would tell you Chemo was possible on a glider if they had never tried it before. I've been following this thread and it's just the saddest and most frustrating thing. At least you know that, prior trials or none, you made the right decision about that for your baby. I wish you both the best. Spoil that baby as much as you can.
Posted By: Srlb
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/12/08 02:44 AM
Gina already knows that I did talk with Dr.Tristan and he HAS knowledge of chemo being used on a glider, however, he also said to tell Gina, what she needs to do is consider the quality of life she wants Fawkes to have.
He wants to see the reports before giving any advice one way or another.
Gina, those records never made it over today hun. You might want to call them again tomorrow and really get on em.
I sent him an email about the other. Will let you know as soon as I hear back from him.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/13/08 02:15 AM
Thanks Peggy - I called UT again today & once again, they promised me his charts would be faxed to you today (I told them you were a vet & you were WAITING
)
Please let me know if they arrived today or not - maybe Dr. Peggy needs to call with her ninja suit on??? I also did not get that email you said you were forwarding me...
Fawkes is doing well - he has been wanting to "explore" lately during his meds, which makes it awful hard to give him his meds
I'm taking as a sign that he's feeling okay. Here's some pics of him "exploring" (click to enlarge):
He has an appt tomorrow afternoon with his regular vet for a follow-up. I am going to talk to her about the herbals, because when I give them to Fawkes, he opens his mouth & shakes his head so that all the meds come flying out - then he sticks out his tongue and "brushes" it off with his hands. So, I'm wondering if he's even getting enough to do him any good - Plus, it's taking me like 45min - an hour to get them down, and I have to do it twice a day - which I totally don't mind doing, I just wonder if I am stressing him out for nothing?
And then there's Zoe (Fawkes' wife) - she has pulled out the fur on her hips. I noticed it start to thin about a month ago, but not enough to be concerned - but over the last 2 weeks, she has pulled most of it out. I wonder if she knows something is wrong with Fawkes & this is her way of outwardly showing the stress??? She will be seen by the vet tomorrow as well...
Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/13/08 03:00 AM
Gina, Fawkes is one big seriously awesome handsome guy!!
We are praying for him for this to just disappear like it never happened.
Most likely his girl knows something is up, not necessarily due to illness but because you are stressed and having to give him meds. Gliders sense change in us and the different things happening around them.
I couldn't figure out why my Badge took one look at me and RAN away instead of coming out of his cage, his eyes got huge like he was scared to death. After getting hurt feelings, I realized it was the pink curlers I had in my hair!
Now he gives me the what for when I have them in!
One thing I learned the hard way, when you are giving meds to a glider, don't be nervous, they sense it. I wish I could show you how I do it, mine don't/can't do the shake head thing, the meds go down. I have one glider that takes meds for life...I will see if I can get a video of me giving them to her so you can see.
Fawkes looks great Gina. We're all pulling and praying for him and you.
Posted By: hipbchik
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/13/08 03:07 AM
Looking at those pics, I swear I'd never know that handsome little guy is so sick...hang in there Gina, we're all pulling for you AND Fawkes!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/13/08 03:57 AM
I have one glider that takes meds for life...I will see if I can get a video of me giving them to her so you can see.
That would be SO cool! I can get it in his mouth just fine, but then he just goes nutso! I don't blame him, it IS nasty, but I wish I could make him swallow. I tried putting my hand over his head like a "hood", but he still shook - he just splattered the inside of my hand will meds. You guys should see me after I finish giving Fawkes meds, I look like I just came out of a paint booth! I have tripled my laundry the last couple of weeks!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/13/08 04:18 AM
Awwwwwwww
Fawkes looks very happy right now. You are taking great care of him
Honestly I don't understand why they'd use a steroid for a type of cancer...steroids suppress the immune system...you'd think you'd WANT the immune system going in high gear to try to get rid of that cancer (our immune system actually plays a very important role in fighting cancer...it just can't get all kinds of cancers sometimes).
As to them saying "You can do chemo on a glider" if they haven't before...well, technically, I'm sure they could determine dosages for a glider, but just because they CAN doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea...that's for you to decide. If Dr. Tristan knows of a glider who has done chemo, I would talk to him to find out how it was tolerated by the glider. But it sounds like you already have your mind made up about the chemo. Honestly I would make the same choice if it was my babies
You and Fawkes are in our thoughts
Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/13/08 05:00 AM
Gina, I won't be able to do it till Friday night or Saturday..grrr
Have you tried putting his meds in something he likes?
I have one glider who has a gum and teeth issue so it's harder on him, Dr. Williams suggested putting his meds in a TINY bit of plain Vanilla icecream. It worked like a charm! Only like 1/8th of a tsp of the icecream. He took it that way for a month with no problems.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/13/08 05:33 PM
Have you tried putting his meds in something he likes?
I have tried putting it in everything! There is just no covering up the taste of this stuff - it's horrible!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/13/08 10:45 PM
I know this may not be that helpful,
when I volunteered for the human society and we would administer meds to the kitty residents. We were required to hold their mouth closed.
Cats tend to do the same, shake the head and splatter the meds about. Maybe after getting them in there, take a towel and gently cup your hand around his head for a min, and their ya go, no shaky game.
Another idea is using one of those syringes with the little curvy tip.
One more: Less is more, if he is shaking his head about, maybe put a bit less in his mouth at a time. He is probably savvy to your tricks, and so the less liquid = the less inertia.
Last idea is finding out if these herbs are viable via intramuscular/subcutaneous injection.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/14/08 01:46 AM
Well, we went to the vet today - Fawkes got on another herbal - this one is for pain, and it is called "4 Pain". Since he's been making "sqeaking" noises, we wondered if he isn't in a little bit of pain. The tumor seems to be growing around the side of his head behind his ear. The vet thought it may be putting pressure on his voice box. Really no way to tell. Fawkes goes back on Sept 30th for a follow-up.
She also called a friend of hers who is a compounding pharmacist here in town. I'm going to go see him tomorrow to see if he can find some kind of base to mix all these nasty herbals in so that we can ease the stress of medication time for Fawkes. I am really hopeful about this, so please keep your fingers and toes crossed that he can find something that works!
On Zoe, Dr. Kate agrees with me - she thinks that it is stress induced overgrooming, that very likely has something to do with Fawkes. She said that there are a couple other conditions that present as hair loss in that area, however, they are extremely rare, and they would be actual loss whereas Zoe has actually just given herself a haircut (you can see that the hair is broken). She said we could put Zoe on valium, but that it would affect her liver, so guess what Zoe is on - you got it, another herbal - this one is also by New Vita & is called "Be Happy". This one goes in their food, so I don't have to worry about that. Zoe goes back in 2 weeks for a follow-up.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/14/08 02:03 AM
oh Gina...i'm so sorry. you seem to have so much on your hands right now with those two. i really hope you can find a base for all the herbals.
still praying for you, Fawkes and Zoey
Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/14/08 02:16 AM
Gina, I am going to TRY to explain. (I'm not good at explaining things..sorry)
Hold Fawkes with your left hand (if you are right handed), if he is a fighter of meds, use a pouch to contain his body all except his head. Put your hand around him using your forefinger to hold the TOP of his head and your thumb UNDER his chin to the right side of his mouth.
Now with the syringe in your right hand already, take your thumb and gently but firmly pull his bottom "lip" down to where his mouth is slightly open at least. Take the syringe and place it there to where the meds will go down into the SIDE (his right side) of his mouth. Now take your thumb and close his lip UPwards while holding his head with your forefinger still. Hold for a few seconds until he swallows. He will.
Have a mealie in your right hand he can see at this point and give to him.
Ugh..I'm terrible at explaining...but he CANNOT shake the meds out doing it this way.
HUGS
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/14/08 11:28 AM
First off, I am SO incredibly sorry you are having to go through this. I have some experience with cancer in pets. (My first cat, Pepper had cancer. In her leg. I was in charge of all of her medicine.) Also, my mother in law has cancer. The kind, they are unsure of. I'm very glad you decided not to do Chemo!
You suggested honey WATER? What about just honey (It' svery sugary..But wouldnt getting the meds in him be worth it?) Or, flavored water maybe?
Also, for holding them still. (I don't know if I would try this on your Fawkes, since he has the cancer on his neck and side.) Anywho, if it doesnt hurt when its pressed...then try wrapping him up like a burrito. While giving my kitty medicines, I had to do this to have her hold still. Then I had to hold her mouth shut until she would swallow. It is not very pleasing, especially when they are upset and fighting you. Eventually she realized I was helping her, and I didnt need to wrap her up anymore. Despite how much they fight...You know you are helping, so don't feel bad! (Also, look out for sneakyness...Make sure they swallow, for her petting under her chin gently encouraged it)
More about my cat Pepper; She had cancer in her front leg. My mother and I noticed it was swollen. We took her to a vet (A vet I HATE! They only wanter money! =/), and they did all sorts of things. One,was slice it open to see if it was a foreign object. The swelling only got bigger, and worse as they decided what else to try. FINALLY they found out it was cancer. And wanted to charge $1,500 for surgery! We took her to my boyfriends vet, who did the surgery for only 400 (Same exact procedure.) IT was too late though, and she died almost a year later. It was very sad, and I miss her so much. This is what makes being a pet owner so incredibly hard. (while doing this, I also had her bite me a few times. And she never bit before..I think it is just something animals do at first, because they are scared.)
I'm not sure how much my current vet knows about glider. Maybe I'll try calling him, and getting some advice if he knows anything. He is GREAT with animals, and cares more about them then money.
You are a great sugar mommy! You deserve a zillion hugs. Reading this thread was so incredibly sad for me, Its hard to imagine how hard it is for you. Just keep spoiling your baby. He looks so healthy, its a real shame. Keep looking on the bright side of things, though! Keep your head up. Don't be sad and depressed, animals DO, and WILL sense that. Sure he has cancer, but thats the only thing that has changed about your pet. Good luck, and I wish you so much luck!
And, to your guardian angel? Bless there heart!
xa zillion to Fawkes, His mommy, and the guardian Angel! And, everyone else showing some support! =)
P.S.Feel free to message me with ANY questions, or if you jsut want to talk or vent!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/14/08 06:10 PM
Thanks guys -
I have tried holding his head until he swallows, but he will literally hold it in his mouth for several minutes until I let him go. Then he does the shaking thing. And the mealies don't work. He won't even look at one until he has completely emptied his mouth & bathed himself. Today I could barely get him to eat his mealies, even an hour after he'd finished his meds. He usually has 20, today he reluctantly ate 9.
The burrito thing could work for getting it down him, but he'll still shake. I need to find a way to make him swallow it.
I thought about trying to put it farther back on his tongue - but I don't want to choke him.
I called the pharmacist guy today & he had already left for the day (at 11am!) - they said to try back tomorrow morning. I really hope he is there...
Posted By: pappy1264
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/14/08 07:05 PM
Timmy would do this. So I just would hold him, keeping his head secure, gently stroke his throat and down his belly and he would eventually swallow it (I found if I rubbed along the end of his mouth, where his 'cheek' is, he would swallow it pretty quickly.')
Posted By: sugarlope
Re: Part 2: Fawkes Has Lymphoma - 08/14/08 07:21 PM