GliderCENTRAL

Help with overgrooming and poor appetite

Posted By: Anonymous

Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 08:09 AM

I was wondering about a mixture of tea tree oil and water? It works for dogs and people, doesn't smell too great, but is it toxic to gliders? My girl has 3 bald spots on her head, been to 3 different vets, two of which are local and only work with cows! One recommended another vet and she really, really tried to help. Mine has been sick for about 2 months, and just seems to go from one thing to another and they are always a mystery! It started when she chewed off the end of her tail. That was taken care of immediately, antibiotics, collar, etc. The hair still hasn't grown back, so it has to stay covered still. Can't grow back with a bandaid on I'm sure, but I have to keep it covered or she remembers it's there to chew on. Sunday night she was obsessed with her pouch. Licking furiously. No bite marks that I could tell, no redness. She stopped eating again the night before. Started hissing when she would go to the bathroom and seemed like she was constantly trying to go... like straining. Had to put her back on Pedialyte. The vet gave her SQ fluids Tues. And she got up about 7 p.m. to eat just a little. She only wants peas... and maybe a little fruit juice. Now she's not hissing, but has mild diarrhea (again)! Vet didn't see anything unusual in her float or the other test. She had some kind of eye infection along with her tail recovery...seems like it just won't go away, almost though. Vet says maybe a little scarring on the eye, but to not put any over the counter topicals on her for ringworm, she wasn't sure what fungicides they could have or not. She is supposed to consult with another vet and give me a call as soon as she has a clue what to do with her. She is very interested in getting into exotics, I just hate to be the "first" one! Anyone have a clue what might be keeping her from getting well. I'm exhausted after 2 months of 2 good days, then 4 bad, 1 good, 2 bad, 3 good 2 bad....you get the idea.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 08:35 AM

I need to know a couple of things before I can adequately reply:

What is her diet (everything)

and Is she a lone glider? (meaning no cagemate)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 08:48 AM

BML, a little papaya, pineapple, some peas, few pieces corn, mealworms (the exotice nutrition cooked in can), she stopped eating those though. Vet said to just continue with BML but she won't eat it unless I put some juice in it. She is also "yellowish" not really really dark yellow, just very light. She doesn't like carrots, so I don't think it's that. She hasn't eaten too much of anything except peas with a little BML and juice in the last 2 months. It's a lot less since Sunday though. Glad she had the SQ fluids, she seemed like she had a little more energy after, not sleeping 24/7. I make her get up to eat, but she doesn't really try. Wish the vet would hurry and "consult" and call me back. Yes, she's alone. She has always been since her mom got mean to her and she chewed her own thumb off about 3 yrs. ago. She's been fine with just me and being caged beside her mom. But dad died right before Christmas...don't know what happened, he was the healthiest of all 3, one morning he was gone? I don't know if it had anything to do with that or not, but she's not coming back to me and I'm getting very very tired....too many vets around, but none exotic since mine moved away.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 08:55 AM

You're on the right track with diet...but it needs some work.

Is the yellow her FUR...or her SKIN? (Very Important)


The answers to these are important. A large part of her problem might be stress (which includes dietary) and loneliness-which can account for both the bald spots and tail chewing.

I'm at work, and need to check in a guest (hotel) but I'll be back to read and refine my answer in a few minutes based on your reply. smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:06 AM

I think it's mostly her fur on her belly, but her claws are definitely yellowish, I don't think, since she won't come out much...that her skin is real yellow. Maybe just one spot on the top of her head, which is why I asked about ringworm...not sure what it would look like on them? She didn't seem to think it was, and my blacklight doesn't glow any fluorescent green or bright...I was afraid somehow it might me from some aflatoxin, but the vet didn't seem too worried about that...as for the diet, she really doesn't want anything, just mostly her pediatlye, but I have to put a little honey in it or she won't drink it either...I've read so much stuff in the last two months, everything I think she has! LOL And she just won't get well. I just wonder if I should put her back on antibiotic (LA 200) She seemed to be doing pretty good then, but then the eye problem and one of the first vets said Tetracycline causes dry eye and maybe stop that and continue eye ointment see if it clears up, and it did....then she started with the licking pouch and diarrhea, slight hissing when she would urinate and I pretty sure that was really dark yellow yesterday, usually it's clear. But she stopped hissing but is still straining and small amounts of soft stool, then straining for nothing... poor thing is going to have a prolapsed rectum if she doesn't stop that! Stool is green also. After the tail it was yellow water, slowly firmed, then normal, now it's really soft again....What in the world?
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:08 AM

Now, if she really doesn't like the BML, there are other diets you can try to make sure she gets her vitamins/minerals daily. She also needs an assortment of fruits/veggies, and the citrus (ie pineapple, orange, grapefruit, starfruit) needs to be severely limited-gliders don't handle acidic foods well. We can make some suggestions. Canned bugs are fine (but not too many) since they aren't an integral part of the diet, but mostly there for cleaning the teeth in most of them (including the BML).

Also, do you mix the BML exactly according to directions? Or is it a leadbeaters, but not necessarily B (Bourbon's) Modified Leadbeaters? That can make a difference.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:12 AM

She doesn't like BML that much at all. She only gets very small amount of pineapple every other day, but hasn't eaten it in 2 months. She has NEVER like boiled eggs so I only put about half of one in the modified mix, she still doesn't like it. About the wheat germ??? The only kind we have around here is toasted, is that the way it always is?? I had never bought any before, so I didn't know....
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:15 AM

I was typing while you were to fill time.

The reason I asked about the yellow, is if it's skin (hands, feet, nose, ears) it can indicate a liver problem.

The hissing when peeing definitely indicates a probable UTI, especially with her paying more attention to the cloacal area. The most commonly prescribed meds for that in a glider are Baytril, Clavamox, Clindamycin, or Trimethoprim sulfa, depending on the bacteria. Tetracycline isn't a great choice for gliders, unless all else fails. I can give you some phone numbers on glider experienced vets that will consult with yours.

The head (are the bald patches above the eyes and to the sides of the black stripe?) are most likely overgrooming-gliders are social animals, and lack of a cagemate tends to produce this. Especially if combined with illness. And it definitelly sounds like she's got a bacterial issue.

Also, if I can ask-what kind of a cage is she in...ie galvanized wire, painted, pvc coated, and what are your cleaning methods, and how often? Age of glider? Sleeping arrangements and toys? Out of cage time with you? All of these can contribute to issues.

And Welcome to Glider Central, also! wave
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:20 AM

Here are the diet links. Any one you choose, follow the directions EXACTLY or it will throw off your vitamin/mineral and Calcium/phosphorus ratios inherent in the diet. The most popular proven diets, other than BML, are:

WHP
Suncoast (uses Zookeeper's Secret soft pellets)
Darcy's (uses Ensure as a staple, and sometimes the only thing a glider will eat in the way of a staple)
Priscilla Price's Pet Glider diet

Stay away from hard pellets.
Link:
http://www.glidercentral.net/links/pages/Glider_Care___Information/Diet___Nutrition/index.html

And here are two of my vets that would be more than happy to consult/help yours by phone:

Foothill Animal Clinic / Wasatch Exotic Pet Care
Dr. Laurel M. Harris, DVM 2675 East Parley's Way Salt Lake City, UT 84109 Located inside the Foothill Animal Clinic (801) 485-4736 (phone number) (801) 485-1856 (fax number)

Parrish Creek Veterinary Clinic
Douglas W Folland, DVM 86 North 70 West Centerville, UT 84014 (801) 298-2014

My phone numbers are also listed in my signature-you are welcome to call for help any time.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:26 AM

She's been in a small coated wire cage for 2 months since the tail. Had a big one from Exotic Nutrition, but had to take her to work with me in the small one and she didn't like the big one when her tail healed. Just sat on bottom all night. She's pretty spoiled, likes to ride around with me all day! I just checked on her, and I think her skin is just really pale, not quite yellow. I'm not too sure, but I don't think it looks like the pics of the ones with jaundice....not yet anyway. Yes, the bald spots started above the eyes, same time as tail incident. then just seemed to keep popping up, one tiny one in the middle. The cage was always clean, that's why we (me and the vet) didn't think it was contamination or fungus, etc... but you never know with fungus, it's always among us! ha ha. She's about 5 yrs. old and has been with me almost every day. Went to work a lot more until she got sick, I thought she might just want to be left since she sleeps most of the time anyway. She just got up and looked at me and went right back to bed. She has a pouch and a bamboo house. She doesn't like the bamboo house though.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:26 AM

I've also asked for your part of this thread to be split off from the other member's so your situation gets the attention it should, and you can update. smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:30 AM

Oh thank you! That's great. It's nice to hear from someone who knows what kind of animal I'm even talking about! LOL Small town, not a lot of exotics here! Phone numbers would be great. Vet said she would ask a guy who still works at the college they went to and call me, but I don't know when...(sigh). She didn't take any blood. do you think that needs to be done?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:35 AM

Also, I'm a big mole and gopher hunter, can't stay out of the dirt! I had to go to doc last week for spot on my arm, he said it was fungus from "playin" in the dirt, and told me to stop it. He just doesn't understand...I CAN'T...I'm obsessed with stopping these rodents from tearing up my yard and plus it's nice to get outside since it warmed up, etc. He thinks I'm crazy and I'm related to the guy on Caddyshack! That's why I'm so convinced that it has something to do with fungus...but nothing is glowing on blacklight, not even MY SPOT...he prescribed Clortrimazole with betamethasone. I have to put on my hands too, my cuticles have slight "itch." Maybe she doesn't like the smell??? Or maybe toxic. Vet says they can have some steroids when needed so that part should be ok, but maybe fungicides. She wasn't sure which is safe or not.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:39 AM

Internet went down, lol. While I'm retyping my reply...no, I don't think blood needs drawn at this point. They need to go under anesthesia, and the vet really needs to know what they're doing. Give me a few to get my prior reply retyped. crazy
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:51 AM

What you describe is common to overgrooming, and not to ringworm, in all honesty. When I get home after 8 MT I can post some pics in your thread. I have 2 that overgroom for different reasons...one is a lone glider who will not accept a cagemate.

What you need to do is fix the diet, treat the UTI (next paragraph) and either get her a cagemate (such as a rescue or another adult glider-neutered male or female-that needs rehomed), and enrich her environment with more toys/things to do.

The fact she's paying more attention to her 'backside' plus the hissing when peeing says UTI very loudly-they are two of the most common symptoms. If a C&S can't be done (culture and sensitivity) on the bacteria from a urine sample, first choice is normally Baytril for 2 weeks, twice daily, at a weight appropriate dosage your vet can figure.

For toys, GC has some wonderful vendors who go to extremes to provide glider safe and enriching toys for our little buddies (for instance-catnip is toxic to gliders-so a lot of cat toys are not a good idea). Here's the link to the classifieds area:

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/60/page/1

A vet is a must. Like I said, mine have consulted with other members, and will be MORE than happy to help yours. You can also call me if you have diet/toy questions, etc. First, tho, you need to get her healthy. Know that a UTI can happen even with a clean cage, because of the design of the cloaca (backside) and the way they mark their territory. NO MED is going to help the overgrooming. Fixing her diet, enriching her environment, and a cagemate will most likely fix that...it is common with lone gliders, and they actually take the hair off themselves, which is why meds won't work.

If we know where you are, when you're ready, we also can put you in touch with a rescue home that could adopt a cagemate for your girl to you. An adult neutered male, or another female, would be best for her.

Edit: I need to go get some work done now, but keep us updated, and if any other immediate questions, I'll check here in a little while. Hang in there, and we are happy to keep helping. hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 10:00 AM

I still have her mom, who is alone now since the dad died, she's fine, and played together for a while, but was afraid to put them together with her being sick. Is it ok to put mom and baby back together, they seem to play fine. I was going to try to put them together when her tail healed, but then she got other problems, one right after the other...I'm in Oklahoma, but after this one, I really don't think I want to get any extras...especially since a close vet is too hard to find here. They both have had lots of toys and wodent wheels, plus the gerbil ball (she used to really like that, but not anymore). I've taken most of her toys and pouches, anything cloth out only because of the "fungus" scare. Figured it would be better since she wasn't using any other ones anyway. She just sticks to one now. I noticed her belly fur now is not really yellow, but mostly an "orange" color. What hair she had left on her tail, is really thin too. I have to get some sleep, it's almost 5 a.m. here but I really really really thank you! I'll check back tomorrow. Thanks again!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 10:09 AM

Here is a list of other members vets in OK-who knows? One might be near you. smile There are 10 listed for OK.

And as long as A-they don't fight, and B-Mom doesn't bother her tail (watch for her to pay attention to the daughter's tail) it should be fine to reintroduce. Be cautious, as if they've been apart awhile it could be rocky going at first.

Here's the link:

http://www.glidercentral.net/links/pages/Vets_Database/United_States/Oklahoma/index.html

And make sure to keep us updated. thumb
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/07/07 09:02 PM

Thank you so much. I think I will call the vet today since she hasn't called me back YET. Will probably get the Baytril and see if she would want to call one of your numbers. My baby got up and ate some mealworms today! That's great for her since she's only been eating a few peas and drinking her pedialyte water! Yeah! I'll keep in touch. Thank you again!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/08/07 02:07 AM

Vet was busy when I called but receptionist said she did have some information for me and she would call me back pretty quick. She did and said she contacted her classmate and she said yes to the baytril. And if possible, if momma doesn't try to hurt her tail, to try to put them together and maybe we will be on the road to recovery!!! :-) She doesn't like the cranberry/water mix...maybe too strong or sour smelling?? Dont' know, but with meds, I'm hoping she'll be back to normal soon. She's so sweet, had her since she was born and she's the friendliest one. Will let you know how she's doing soon. Vet said she would definitely like to have the numbers you gave me. Thank you again, she's so willing to learn more about exotics, I hope she continues to do so. She's not too far from here and she's really nice too. JUST LIKE YOU GUYS ALL ARE!!! THANKS AGAIN!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/08/07 11:49 AM

You are more than welcome. Cranberry is very acidic, and most gliders really don't care for it. Why were you offering cranberry juice?

Make sure and keep us updated..you're a member of GC's family now, and we all worry about everyone's gliders around here. smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/09/07 08:20 PM

The cranberry juice was very, very diluted with water because I read another post by Morrighann that said it helps to prevent UTI, but I was hoping it would help clear it faster, but she won't try it anyway. Also, how in the world do you get them to take the meds. I tried to put it in the food, she won't eat...I tried a little bit of water, she can smell it, it smells really bad to me too. I tried with the very small med syringe the vet gave me and made her take it by itself and I'm sure it's really really bad! I don't like having to do it like that, but I can't keep guessing if she ate it or drank it or waiting for a better idea, so last night for her third dose, I was trying to get her to take it and she opened her mouth really good, but the meds came out all at once (not my intention at all!) And she took off running, foaming at the mouth and then threw up! I was scared to death! I thought I killed her! I don't know any other way of getting it in her...plus she still has to have the antibiotic ointment in her eye and I know she hates me now! Another thing, now I'm starting all over again with the tail, she took the very end of it off last night again, and it was finally healed...after 2 months of doctoring and collars, etc......I'm exhausted, and I don't think I'm getting anywhere.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/11/07 12:59 PM

If a glider won't take meds willingly-they have to go down the hard way. I've had to force meds on a number of gliders-trust me, they don't hate you. Only two I've had would take them willingly, and only one of two they were on-the other went down by syringe. hug2 Illness can actually strengthen a bond, and does in most cases, despite (or maybe because of) the meds, collar, etc. This thread, the first 3 posts have pictures on how to force feed meds by syringe:

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/170750/page/1#Post170750

Unfortunately, a lot of the time, unlike dogs or cats where you can hide it in a favorite treat, a glider isn't fooled-their sense of smell is much better.

I always follow meds with a treat like a yogurt drop or meal worm-whatever that glider really likes, to make up for shoving the nasty tasting stuff down, and holding until they swallow.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/26/07 04:38 AM

It's been a long time since I came back here, but thought I would update...my baby girl seems to be quite a bit better now. Might have wasted "maybe" 4 doses of baytril over 14 days worth since it was so hard to force feed, and I wondered if I should maybe get more from the vet to make up for it? She seems to be doing ok. no hissing anymore. Her appetite is slightly better, moving on to more than just peas now. Shes eating small amounts of the mix, (never been too crazy about it, but her mom has always loved it). Was slowly trying different fruits and veggies on her, but she still doesn't like carrots, never has, my book says honeydew...Got some of that, sure have a lot of it now!!! Those are giant melons! Anyway, she loves that, but is it really acidic like pineapples or oranges, etc...I don't want another UTI again. I read if it comes back right away, it might be even harder to get rid of the next time. Longer antibiotics, and that wasn't pleasant for either one of us. (I'm sure more unpleasant for her than for me! yuck). I'm out of Glidercal so need to order some quickly. Shouldn't they be able to go at least a couple of days without it? I have liquid calcium I had to give her some time ago for HLP when her mom was mean to her, she got depressed before the tail incident and wasn't getting to eat. I wonder if I could put a few drops of that on their food until the order comes in?? Any idea? Also, the mix says to use Herptivite and Repcal. Is that better than Glider Cal and Glider booster mixed together. Those two say to mix 1/2 and 1/2 tsp. per pound of food...That's what I've been using all along, just wondered if the baby would like it better if it was Herptivite and Rep cal??? There's too many things that say they can be used for different animals, and I never know which is REALLY ok or not. I know I always hit you with a "million" questions at once, but I work at a newspaper, and I never have a lot of time to get on here...have to get it all in at once! LOL How about monkey biscuits, they used to eat the standard ones my parents would get for me at a pet store in Joplin, Mo., but the guy said they were discontinued...I have a catalog from Exotic Nutrition that says they have them, but can't find them on their website. Just the orange flavored ones, and they didn't want those at all. Mom couldn't even get the squirrels in the back yard to eat those! LOLOL :-) I sure appreciate any and all advice, you sure have helped me a lot, she's looking better than she has in 2 1/2 months. Hope she's finally going to recover. Oh yeah, I believe the hair is slowly starting to grow back over on the tail and this time it looks like the skin is closing over the bone...Just getting better and better. Hope is keeps going that way! Thanks again!
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 06/26/07 05:48 AM

Hi,
I'm going to make a suggestion that MIGHT help with the tail issue. There is some stuff called Collastat. It is a bitter spray that tastes NASTY and has helped several gliders with tail injuries. You just spray it on twice a day.

You can order it here
http://www.calvetsupply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=772

Also, you mentioned Joplin MO. I'm about a hour (perhaps a little less) north of Joplin in KS (right on the MO state line). Where are you located? I will be glad to help if I can.

BML should be made with the Herptivite and Reptical, not the other vitamins. BML, made and fed like directed, is a good diet but if she won't eat it, then it isn't a good diet for HER. Have you looked at and considered any of the other diets?

Also, Honeydew is not acidic as far as I know and my gliders eat it almost every day without issue.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/11/07 01:35 AM

Sorry I haven't been here in sooooo long...My baby was getting so much better after antibiotics (baytril) then just 2 nights ago I heard her running in her wodent wheel and she would hiss a little. Checked on her and she hadn't gone to the bathroom, so don't think it is UTI still (or again?), but she had two small slightly red spots halfway up her "half" tail she has left. She runs in her wheel a lot, and I thought maybe it was rubbing on the bottom of the wheel because the two red spots were on two joints of the tail. So I put some pieces of mole skins scattered in the wheel, because it's soft, and seemed like she stopped hissing for a night, then next night she was doing it again. Now she is obsessed with the cloacal area again. Looks like she might have made a small bite mark there??? Not sure. There's one little tiny "hole" on the side of it. Don't know if she's sick again, or she's just obsessed with being self mutilating. Vet gave me more Baytril, 21 days worth this time...I hate doing that. She hates it even more than I do. Thinking maybe it was still UTI and can't figure out why it won't go away. She's getting better with the mixed food, still not too crazy about it. She mostly likes her corn and peas, I just wonder if maybe the corn is causing UTI?? I don't know. And her tail is totally healed on the end now, but I'm afraid to leave her tiny bandaid off because then she remembers it's there and gets obsessed with it. But the hair won't grow back at all. It's grown over the end, but about 1 1/2 inches up it's still totally bald, not even and fuzzy or whiskery hairs... I thought maybe she would have to go to the vet and have the rest of her tail removed, but then I figure she would just "eat" something else! I don't know what else to do except antibiotics again for 21 days and see how she does from there. Also, I'm trying to remember why I might have mentioned Joplin??? LOLOL I can't remember...unless it was where the pet supply store was that my mom and dad got the monkey biscuits from??? Not sure, but I'm in Oklahoma. My parents are from Missouri so they went there quite a bit but that place stopped getting the biscuits they used to like, Unless that was Lebanon, Mo. I'm sorry, I'm not sure! LOLOL I might try the spray you mentioned, I'm always afraid to try anything on them since so much is almost toxic to them. But I'm really having trouble getting her e-collar on her now that she's not so lethargic! LOLOL I thank you for your help and will try to update more often. Newspaper and critters keep me pretty busy lately! thanks again.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/11/07 02:13 AM

Jen, I haven't read all this yet but with the symptoms and the green poo, it sounds like it could be Giardia (sp?)

Going back to reading now
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/11/07 02:22 AM

I didn't notice the dates of the first posts. smile

Have you tried putting her back with her mom? It really sounds like she is stressing.

I sure hope she gets well soon! It's scary when a glider is ill frown
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/11/07 02:53 AM

She gets to play with her outside of the cage with me, because I'm afraid she'll bite on her tail too, since it looks so strange. I know she didn't like her a while back, but that was before the dad died. I'm just afraid to let them in the pouch since she might hurt her more than she's hurting herself. She pays too much attention to it when they're just out of the cage with me. Was waiting for the hair to grow back some so it won't be so noticeable...but that's not going to happen I don't think. Don't know why? There's no injury except where she chewed it off on the end and the hair is long enough there to cover the end.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/11/07 07:36 AM

It really sounds like she may have some more infection in there, perhaps one resistant to or not responding to the Baytril. The vet needs to rule out a break, then I'd recommend a med combo...since she's already been on the Baytril, next step would be to go for 14 days of either Clavamox or Clindamycin AND Flagyl (flagyl will cover the anaerobic bacteria part of the spectrum, that most others don't). In other words, two meds at once. That's if nothing is broken in there. I'm sorry she's still having trouble with it, but glad the UTI seems better!
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/11/07 09:26 AM

Jen, you know the medical stuff best smile

I'll offer companion advice. LOL

Give her a little SAFE stuffed animal that is soft and will fit in her pouch so she has a cuddle buddy. (no beanie baby toys, they can swallow those if opened) You can even make a little cuddle toy out of fleece for her. Something for her to hold while she sleeps. smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/11/07 09:39 PM

So the Baytril won't work? (again?) Oh no! I've already started it again...but only one day so far. I'll go to the vet again and get that. It's bad enough to have to do one med a day since it tastes so bad, now two??? Uuuuuhhhhhh! Oh well, whatever it takes. I'm not sure what you mean, break? As in the tail??? She thought it looked fine especially where it healed over the end, but it's still bald above it. Any ideas on that? It's been about 2 1/2 months since she did it and it's been healed for quite a while and the bandaid is just over the tip. I thought maybe I was keeping the hair from growing back with the bandaid, you know, kinda smothering it or something, so I make them really, really small, but I've been doing that for a long time now and still no new hair... Maybe it just won't come back. I don't know, and she still has the bald spots above her eyes, but her eyes look much better than they did. They were sad and not "bulging" like they're supposed to, now they're much brighter and she opens them wider now! LOL Except for the scarring that was left on her eyeball from the eye infection she got right after the tail ordeal, she's looking much better. Seems like the hair on her head will start to fill back in and then sometimes it looks bald again! She's got me stumped for sure! Do you know how much of the meds to give her and how often? When she went to the vet in the beginning when she was really sick (after the tail) she only weighed 2.2 ozs. and I know she's gained a LITTLE since then, but not exactly sure how much. They don't have a scale to weigh anything that small! LOLOL I tried a small stuffed hamster, but she didn't seem to like it in her pouch. Maybe I'll try it again or try a different one. Thanks again ladies. You're a big help for me!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/11/07 10:04 PM

It's the "red spots" I am concerned with. If they're sure it's not broken, infection is likely. And 2 isn't much worse than one...measure the 2nd med into a syringe, put it in a spoon, and then suck it up into the first syringe with the first med-and give them both at once, followed with a treat she likes. And because it's an extremety, there very well may be an anerobic (meaning 'without air') bacteria at work as well. If the baytril didn't clear it, chances are, repeated courses will be less effective-time to change meds. The combos I suggested cover the broadest range of both gram positive, gram negative, and anaerobic you can hope for without knowing the specific bacteria you're trying to kill, and go for a similar duration...2-3 weeks. Depending on how they mixed your baytril (injectable form, or in a suspension?) there are ways to store where you can keep it on hand for up to 6 months or more so it's on hand if you need it...try and find out how it's mixed. The symptoms are consistent with an infection that isn't clearing. Good diet will help, too, but any 'bugs' still in there need to be gotten rid of-and sometimes it's hit and miss and not easy when it's an area you can't culture. hug2
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/11/07 10:20 PM

And yes, I meant a broken or cracked bone in the tail. The only reason for that hair not to grow back is if she's still taking it off herself. New growth should begin within 14 days. Like was discussed, a cagemate will help in the longrun, but the skin, when healthy, should be very white-almost ghostly, and have no red or other discoloration.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/15/07 03:35 AM

The two "red spots" were gone the next day. The skin wasn't broken, just spots like they were rubbing on something. I'm not sure, but I think she might have been rubbing it on her wheel, when I took it out that night they were better the next night. Now she looks really bad again. The bald spots above her eyes are back and her left eye is "sickly" looking again like when she had the eye infections. She has scarring on her eyeball from last time. I don't understand why she can't seem to get over WHATEVER this is. She gets better for about a week or so and then starts looking bad again. Cage is clean, she plays with mom, sometimes they sleep together while they're with me during the day, but mom seems too interested in her tail still for me to put them together at night. She doesn't seem real interested in mom anyway. When I get them both out, she rubs on her a little then goes back to her pouch to sleep. The bald spots on her head are getting worse and worse. Tonight I noticed the spot above her left eye was bald all the way down to her eyelid. It seems to just be spreading. And the two spots above her eyes on the top of her head the skin isn't white, they're reddish colored now. It almost looks like it hurts, like sunburn...Vet said it wasn't fungus, have used fungicides before, didn't seem to help any, left it alone thinking she was overgrooming and didn't want her to "eat" the fungicide, but they still didn't get better. I don't know what is wrong with her. My vet was on vacation, and the other vet here was busy Friday with a stock trailer full of COWS (almost all he works with) so I haven't been able to get the other two meds yet, but will try first thing Monday. If I can get my son's camera, I will have him take a good picture of her and see if I can put it on here. I don't know how to do that, my son probably will, he's a computer whiz since grade school! :-) Maybe you could see what it looks like and have a better idea. I'm beginning to think she just doesn't want to get well, like she's giving up...but her appetite is much better than it was before...so I don't know. I'll try to get the picture now. Thanks again for all your help.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/15/07 05:00 AM

OK. Here goes. He said to just paste this link for the pics. Let's see if it works... One shows the bald spots on her head. One of the bare tail and one of her nose that seems to be almost purple now...not sure about that. Read something on another site about someone who had a glider with allergies and she said hers had a purple nose, that got really dark, something about allergies and then something about e-coli???? Anyway, here are the pics (if it works) Thanks again ALL!

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2141/26037540kf6.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/932/12747296vs0.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8000/43959722xn7.jpg
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/15/07 05:33 PM

Your little girl is NOT well. I'm sorry I wasn't on much last night. Start with the meds combo ASAP. A dark red nose like that means that blood is rushing to the area most likely to fight infection. If she has an infection in her upper jaw/sinus, it could also be into bone. Go with the Clinda/Flagyl combo. Her tail, while it may be stress, I would suspect is more than that. Greasy looking fur indicates lack of grooming that means she really isn't feeling well. If there is an infection into bone in the head, Xray might show it. But don't go there if she's not strong or well enough to tolerate the anesthesia. Baytril has already failed, the combo is the next step.

Here's a pic of my Riker's Xrays (before and after) when he had a nose that looked like that, plus overgrooming.

The first is with the infection.

The second was later on meds.


Description: Actually taken 10/31/04 NOT NORMAL
Attached picture RikerXray110104 Not Normal.jpg

Description: Taken 11/30/04 1 month on meds
Attached picture Rikers X Ray 11 04.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/16/07 04:37 AM

OH ##!**!#! That sounds really bad! Infection in the bone? Her nose just started turning to that color. Hope it hasn't been too long for the medicine to work. Wonder what would cause that kind of infection? She has been acting like she's chewing on something and flopping her head some...that just started too! Like she has something in her mouth (besides the bad taste of meds) that she's trying to shake out. Maybe the short hiss sounds she keeps making is sneezing? Doesn't really sound like when she sneezes, though??? ...The vet should be back Monday, but I think I asked him about the Flagyl before, and he didn't have any, maybe the other one has some. Is it a fairly common medicine? I've never heard of it, but that doesn't mean anything. In your pictures, the one that is NOT normal...is it the really bright glowing area with the kind of "jagged" line that is showing the infection? I don't know how to read those things...they all look the same to me. One does look really clear compared to the other. You suppose that is why she has bald spots on her head, and they have redness on the skin? The oily looking hair is from the Animax medicine I put on her skin, it seemed like it helped when it first started then it quit working. She has been grooming, that's why I don't put much of anything on her head anymore, afraid she might "eat" it. Then I would have another problem with her. I hope it's not too late for her...She's still eating and drinking so maybe I still have time to get her well. This has taken so long, I feel so sorry for her. Everyday it seems like she has something new...Any idea what would cause this type of infection? Thank you so much for your help. I'll go tomorrow to check on the medicine, just hope I can find some. Thank you again. I'll let you know how it goes.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/16/07 04:45 AM

Some times, when infections in the head get severe, it is very hard to treat and can take longer for the meds to work. Riker was ill for quite a long time and on meds for a very long time to make sure all the infection was gone.

As long as she is fighting it, don't give up on her. But I agree, the sooner you can get her on the meds Jen suggested, the better. Flagyl is the brand name for the medicine.

The hair loss is only a symptom of the problem. Treat the problem and the hair will take care of itself in time.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/16/07 04:57 AM

Thank you. We can definitely say it's severe...she just looks awful. I know she has to feel the same. At least she's still eating and drinking, more than she was doing in the beginning. It's been about 2 1/2 to 3 months of "doctoring" and she's still not well. She will probably need another month or so of different medicine before she will improve AGAIN. She was getting so much better after the tail and now this. I keep thinking it's something I'm doing that is making her sick, but I can't think of anything...then I thought last week she was just making those noises because she knows I will come back in there and check on her and carry her around. Thought maybe she was "tricky" enough to figure that one out, then her nose started changing so I knew she wasn't that "tricky!" LOL She's just trying to tell me something else!
Posted By: TracieB

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/16/07 05:48 PM

I haven't had any advise to offer, so I've not posted before. But I just want to say that I'll be praying for you and your little girl. I hope you're able to get the meds you need ASAP in order to help this little one heal. My two didn't have these problems, but when they were sick I had to syringe feed them 5 times a day along with their meds. I think it helped them get their strength back up so that they were better able to fight off what they had. They didn't enjoy it (and neither did I), but I knew they had to eat to get better. I put the BML mix in one syringe, and then used a food processor and mixed and chopped fruits and veggies together to put in another syringe. So they got their meds, then BML, then fruits/veggies then a couple mealies (to end on a good note).

My vet is also willing to do consults during the clinic hours. I know Jen's (Xfilefan) vet has probably seen more illness, but it never hurts to have more contacts! Here's her information and hours.

Dr. Teresa Bradley
Belton Animal Clinic & Exotic Care Center
1308 N Scott Ave
Belton, MO 64012
816-331-3120
816.322.7377 (fax)

Hours:
M-F 8am - 11pm
Sat 8am - 1pm then 6pm - 11pm
Sun 6pm - 11pm
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/16/07 09:35 PM

Boogie, I did get your message, along with some others. Flagyl is the brand name of the med. It is also known as Metronidazole, or Metro. It's one of the ingredients in over the counter yeast and fungal medications (DO NOT try anything over the counter-those are for external use ONLY)-just to point out its a very common med.

Any vet that sees dogs or cats should have it, although for cats its made with a fish flavor and smells like rotting fish-YUK! I've put it down mine that way-they don't like that one at all (thankfully my vet now makes it cherry/bubble gum flavor!-doesn't seem to make them take it without the syringe but at least I don't get the horrified EWWW look) - follow with a treat like a few shreds of cheese or yogurt drop to get them to swallow the med with it-once they've swallowed a treat you know the med is down.

It's commonly prescribed in oral liquid form for internal parasites...giardia, trichomonads, some worms, and anerobic bacterial treatment.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/17/07 01:38 AM

First vet was still gone on vacation, other one didn't have it at all and couldn't get it soon enough. The one that saw her last month has tablets, said she could crush them and mix them somehow and flavor it, but didn't know if that would work. One 35 miles away gave a number where to get some liquid, but didn't know what kind of animal I was even talking about. Was a grouchy guy that was cussing when I said how much she weighed...Don't know what that was about. That was just perfect for the way my day has gone. Really needed that, too, on top of everything else! The vet that saw her last month was in surgery off and on most all day, so she asked me to call. She was hoping for an amount, so asked me to call and I got the "legal" stuff about being in another state, etc., so I've had absolutely nothing but phone calls and frustration all day and still haven't gotten anywhere...Vet's going to see her again tomorrow, said she might try to call the Utah vet again, but thinks she'll probably just consult with her vet friend at OSU again...he's seen two so far, but just wellness checks, no, sickness. Probably won't get much info there either, but that will probably be more cooperation than any others I have seen here. Either way, I guess they're getting their education at my expense and my baby's. I appreciate TracieB for giving another number, but I guess it won't help us much here and thanks for her prayers, that's all I've been doing for about 2 1/2 to 3 months now, hope it keeps working. My apologies to Xfilefan (Jen) if we caused any problems...definitely won't happen again. We'll just stick to what little resources we have here in Oklahoma that I'm able to get to and hope for the best. Again, I appreciate all of you, gotta go check on my baby and bawl some more. That's all I've been doing all day. Thanks again, everyone.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/17/07 01:53 AM

The vet can't give that information on the phone except to another vet. If it can't be started for a few days, it's okay. You got the other one. Go ahead and give that one for now-you can add the other one in as soon as it's available. But to avoid legal issues, the vet has to be the one to call.

Most meds can be made with crushed tablets, if they come in that form, then put into suspension for use orally. The amount of mg/ml, and how much to give the glider, will depend on how much the suspension dilutes the tablet. I've had a few meds done for me that way by the vet-including my Riker's thyroid meds, when the liquid form isn't available. So yes, that is an option.

We want your little one to get better, and my vet was sad she couldn't help-she wanted to but her hands really are tied. Tell the vet who told you to call (they should have known better!) to call them, and mine will be more than happy to give the info to the other vet so your little one can get the meds she needs.

Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/17/07 02:10 AM

Add: my vet didn't say who called, just that it was a very upset owner, and wanted to make sure I wasn't telling owners it was okay to call. The referrals here are the only ones I've given, and this is the second time for this type thing-I don't want the resource to be lost. I am not unsympathetic-I know how frustrating it can be sometimes, especially when I was new before I found the vets I have now. If a vet ever tells anyone to call for a dosage (which if you don't know what it's mixed at won't help anyway) remind the vet that an owner CAN'T get that information.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/17/07 02:58 AM

My vet said she would call her tomorrow but she was tied up with a wild stray cat hit by a car someone brought in and said it wouldn't hurt to ask, if she couldn't...then she couldn't. I didn't tell her who I was, I said a woman I spoke to online told us about her and she said your name and laughed...I'm sure my vet knew about the "legal" stuff, but under the circumstance today she was just trying to help as quickly as she could before I could get her there. It doesn't matter. I don't think she's going to make it through the night anyway. Think I need to try to find her mom a home where they have vets that know how to treat them before she gets sick too. The only vets we have here are COW vets...You know us Okies...we don't know much of anything else...
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/17/07 03:13 AM

I hope that's not the case. Is she eating/drinking? Vet can jumpstart meds in the morning, if it's available, by an injection of antibiotics to start things through her system, then continue with oral meds. For now, keep her hydrated. Dehydration is a sick glider's worst enemy. Check her and make sure she's warm also...when ill a glider can lose the ability to regulate their own body temp. If she feels cold, keep her on you to provide body heat so she doesn't have to. Sometimes just sitting with them on you can pull them through to a vet visit-don't underestimate the power of physical contact.

Even inexperienced vets learn. I've had to drive home the point that with gliders...'wait' is not a term that applies to them.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/17/07 05:07 AM

She's eating, haven't seen her drink yet tonight. Think she likes the tiny stuffed "Simba" animal I put in with her last night. She's curled up around it. She's warm, but breathing really, really short and fast, then takes a long breath kinda like a sigh..Gotta tell her goodnight and take a bath and go to bed. Have a bad headache from crying. Guess I better learn to suck it up, in case it doesn't turn out good.
I'm getting discouraged, grouchy and disappointed. I need to go to bed.
My SINCERE appreciation to EVERYONE for trying to help.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/17/07 05:11 AM

Check on her often, like set an alarm clock to get up every so often. Put drinks in there other than water if you can (shallow dishes are fine)...apple juice, fruit nectar, gliderade, whatever, to encourage her to drink and stay hydrated. And please keep us updated.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/24/07 04:09 AM

Finally found a vet in OKC at PetSmart. Says he's seen lots of gliders, some worse than mine. She went last Tuesday to Weahterford vet and got Clavimox but no flagyl, only had tablets. Her breathing got worse Saturday night, she bit the very end of her tail again, not as bad as before, but made it sore again. This vet at PetSmart listened to her heart and lungs, looked at her tail and nose and the top of her head. He gave her a different antibiotic (said it was a little easier on the digestive system, stool was very soft again from Clavimox. He also gave her a bronchodialator (?not sure how that's spelled?) for her "bronchitis," and/or respiratory infection and Acepromazine for her "neurotic" behavior with her tail and head. She's pretty sedated now and I'm supposed to give the sedative and bronchitis meds twice a day. Says they may cause loss of appetite, I'm guessing it's because they don't WAKE UP TO EAT! ;-) Anyway, she seems to be breathing a little better now at 10:30 p.m. than she was at the vet. She still ticks a little when breathing, but not as loud or as often. He said the vaporizer I have been using was a good idea, could keep using it, don't know if it's helping or not. Took 2 hours at the vet today...I think I wore a path in the floor pacing back and forth waiting for him to go out and come back in, go out and come back in, etc. Was a busy guy. Hope that means he knows what he's doing....
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/25/07 12:26 AM

Boogie, the first vet DID call mine the next day, and has the dosages information. Check back with her. They already have her history, etc, so it should just be a matter of filling the meds prescription for you.

In the meantime, keep your little girl warm and free from any drafts. If there's open windows, A/C, or fan, cover the cage with a sheet so no moving air is going over her. Keep her hydrated with liquids.

Ace is not recommended for use in gliders. Usually horses and cows. I'll have to find the thread, but there are better, safer ones. You also don't want her sleeping too deeply if there's fluid in her lungs-she could, in essence, drown. Valium is one of the anti anxiety meds, but not my vet's preference-I need to go find Mareki's thread-brb.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/25/07 12:34 AM

Here it is, History of a Self Mutilator:

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/303105#Post303105

And your little one is overgrooming because something hurts-in gliders it normally isn't neurological alone, though that is a component in the overgrooming, it's not the sole cause.

One of the meds recommended for this one for the neurological part was Haloperidol (it's used in other small exotics like birds, also) and the others I can't remember.

It might help to read Mareki's story if you haven't though-you aren't the only one. hug2

DO keep those antibiotics going down at regular intervals. If she's developing pneumonia-that, warmth, and fluids are very, very important right now.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/25/07 01:15 AM

First vet said take her somewhere else. She's done all she knows to do. Says she's not set up for something that small, bloodwork, etc. This place is an animal hosp., says he's seen several. I'll have to stick to someone who's seen one before. He's got all the history, meds she's been taking, tail problems, etc. He's supposed to call tomorrow to check on her. We'll see.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/25/07 01:21 AM

I hope she hangs in there, and you, too. I went looking, and found part 2 of Mareki's story-this CAN be beaten. hug2

Mareki Pt. 2

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/323621#Post323621

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/27/07 05:44 AM

Vet didn't call Wed., like he said. Today she seemed to be panting harder again, nose is still purple, but don't think it's AS bad...wonder how long the bronchiodiator takes to work? He said the airway should be opening better by Monday evening or Tuesday morning. She DID seem like she was breathing a little easier until today, but maybe the vaporizer isn't such a good idea. Seems like when I turn it on is when she comes out of the bag and hangs on the side of the cage panting really really hard. So he said to discontinue the vaporizer & if she hasn't improved by tomorrow to bring her back. I can't figure out why no meds will kick this? Her head looks better, but she was eating better before I took her back to the vet. Now she doesn't eat AT ALL. She's still drinking, but I think I'm going to have to force a little mix in her so she don't lose any more weight. She only weighed 61 grams Monday. Think I'll just give her the Ace at night after she eats some (If I can get her to eat). That's when she was doing all the overgrooming and obsessed with the tail. She doesn't do it in the day. It doesn't knock her out. She's just really really calm, but I don't think she needs it twice a day anyway. I was reading about rabbits and guinea pigs in nebulizer chambers for respiratory infections. They say it works really well, better than oral antibiotics alone...wonder if she needs that. Guess I'll ask tomorrow or Sat., since he's going to be there Saturday too. Depends on how bad she is tomorrow. Might have to take her back then. No vet has even taken an X-ray or any blood work yet, wondering if she's in need of that. I'm afraid to do X-ray, since she can't breathe, she probably can't. She's sooooo mellow now from all the doctors and me messing with her so much and from the Ace...maybe they can just hold her and tell her to "SAY CHEESE!" :-) JUST KIDDIN'!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/27/07 06:51 AM

Sweetie, I'm sorry but I REALLY don't thik this is something that you can "wait and see" on. You said your in Oklahoma, right? Have you checked the vet database to see if there's anybody near you?

http://www.glidercentral.net/links/pages/Vets_Database/United_States/Oklahoma/index.html

Infections can be really hard to beat in a glider, especially if they didn't completely clear up the first time 'round or they happen to be prone to a certain type of infection; I've known gliders who have taken months and months to heal from problematic infections like this!

I'm really worried that if you don't get this little one on the right meds PRONTO, you're going to loose her; I don't want to sound mean, but the truth is that gliders aren't like cats or dogs or kids - waiting a few days can LITERALLY the difference between life and death for these little ones, even if they've had the same problem to some degree for a while now! I, like Jen, and like most of the people around here are telling you this from personal experience - we've made our mistakes, and we don't want you to make the same tragic errors that we did because we didn't realize how important it was to get the issue delt with IMMEDIATELY.

If you're going to take ONE PERSON's advice about gliders and vets, TAKE Jen's! She has had more experience dealing with this sort of thing than most of us could ever imagine, and her advice is ALWAYS both SPOT ON and completely WORTH TAKING.

Please don't give up on making sure this little one is being treated properly, her life is in your hands.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/27/07 07:07 AM

You've been given great advice.

Don't wait on the vet to call you. Call the vet! DEMAND that the vet take the necessary tests. Print out everything Jen has written here and take it to him.

This is your glider's LIFE here!!

Either tell this vet to get moving or find another one ASAP. There is NO time to mess around here. This has gone on too long as it is. You are the one paying the vet to do a service, make them take care of your baby or refer you to someone who can without playing guessing games.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you are going to lose this glider kid if something isn't done FAST! cry
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/27/07 08:40 AM

Their lungs are very tiny, and very sensitive, and I don't think the Ace is going to help as much as hurt, honestly. If it were one of mine, I wouldn't give it at all. If you can get them to, Clavamox would be worth trying...it is an enhanced amoxicillin, very common and any vet should be able to manage it. The human grade is called Augmentin. It will also soften the stools, so feed a few (3-4 individual) oatmeal flakes with it. I might go with a few days of Metacam for inflammation (NO MORE THAN 3 DAYS on that one), then a mild pain med like Torb, but you don't want her too out of it, like this is doing.

She's got to get some food in her, also. Get some Ensure or use watery BML and put it down by syringe if you have to every couple hours, .5-1.0 CC/ML. Plus fluids-watery gliderade would be best for the vitamins/minerals, but Kerns nectar mixed with pedialyte will work if necessary. Go slow so she doesn't breathe it in-she doesn't need more issues there. I had to do this for weeks to help pull Riker through severe HLP that almost killed him. Again, keep her ON YOU and WARM as much as possible. I slept in a chair with Riker on me in his pouch under my robe, getting up every hour or so to check on him.

Hydration, Warmth, Nutrition, Fluids, Antibiotics-and constant care is what she needs right now to live.

To show that vets are not infallible, my first rescue, Dana, who had a joey and started at 150+ grams, I took into the vet after 2 weeks because she suddenly started vomiting and dropped to 64 grams! The vet I took her to had helped when Riker had HLP AND done his neuter, so, relatively new to gliders (9 months owner) I thought he was relatively competent. Boy was I wrong, and it drove home just how much some vets DO NOT KNOW.

I took Dana in...nursing a 4 week OOP joey the prior owner hadn't even known was in there, for him to REFUSE to look at her, tell me she was fine, nothing was wrong, and refuse to even give an antibiotic. Gliders do not throw up and lose half their body weight in days over nothing. By the time I found another vet, and learned to assert MY wishes, since it's MY money and MY animal-it was too late for her. It was Giardia. Sometimes you have to go in, let them know that YOU are paying and THIS is what you want for your money...X antibiotic, X med, X tests (whatever they happen to be), and remind them it's YOUR animal. Don't take no for an answer. They DON'T all know, regardless of what they say, and especially with these animals. A vet willing to consult, who will admit they don't know it all, is worth a lot.

Here is your reality right now: she cannot drop any more weight, and needs your body heat to supplement hers. Her body can't generate heat and fight infection this bad at the same time at this point. You can remove the one burden from an overloaded body-keep her on you. That will also help the antibiotics work. Since infections like this cannot be cultured, it's hit and miss to find the right one...if you dont' see significant improvement in 2-3 days max, you need to try a different med. Her hydration is also top priority. If she dehydrates it will put even more strain on her body. Dehydration can kill a healthy glider in 24-48 hours-let alone a sick one.

I've had 27 gliders come through my home. Most rescues with varying illnesses, a few healthy ones. I can only draw on my experiences with them, and with others I've helped with, to help you. In a lot of cases I know what has worked for myself and others, and what hasn't...and what this vet is doing is NOT working. MAKE them listen, or find one either that will, or that will consult. Insist on what you want, and what your little one needs-her life depends on it.

Most don't know that a vet takes a very similar oath to a doctor when they are licenced-I dont' remember all of it, but it starts the same way:

"FIRST, DO NO HARM..." Remind them of it if you have to.

We can draw on knowledge and experience to help, but are not vets. It's up to you to take the steps necessary to get your baby what she needs. We are very, very worried about her at this point. I know not a lot of people have posted...that happens when they don't know what they can add. A lot of us are watching though-so although you may have to enter a vet's office alone, GC is here for support...for decisions, for a shoulder, for the good of the glider (and their owners). I wish I could tell you what they gave you will help, but I can't and be honest.
worried

I have to get back to work now, but as always, I'm watching your thread...and so are others. hug2
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/27/07 11:16 AM

Let me add this. She doesn't need handled by strangers now, and I doubt she could survive anesthesia-that is hard on both the lungs and body. If she could be still for an Xray without it (it has happened a few times), it could be useful for seeing what's in the lungs. A vet can listen to heart and lungs while you hold her, to reduce stress. She does need meds that will help without making it harder on her body to function, let alone heal, and all the help from you possible.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/27/07 03:26 PM

hug2 Jen is giving you all the best advice and support possible! Thanks Jen! I just wanted to say that I am so sorry that your little one is going thru such a horrible time. You both are in my thoughts and prayers. hug2
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/28/07 07:57 AM

Boogie, how is your baby doing?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/29/07 06:04 PM

So sorry I haven't been here. This is really hard now. She seemed pretty good Friday, vet called Saturday morning to set up recheck. She wasn't good at all. I took her. Told him I was syringe feeding her water and mix. She slept with me all night and almost all day, otherwise she was on her heating pad. He checked her abdomen and said it wasn't good. Large mass under the rib cage. Said he didn't feel that Monday...but I think it's been there for a while. Probably since the beginning of all this 2-3 months ago. He said the outcome wasn't good, probably best to euthanize (?). I cried. Then I told her I loved her and said goodbye, but I couldn't hand her to him. It might have been the best thing, but I have never had that in me. That's why I couldn't be a vet like I wanted...I couldn't do that part. Just don't have it...He said he would give her some fluids and vitamin B shot with pain meds and something else, and I asked for an X-ray. He said sure. He never told me no on anything, but assured me it would not be a good outcome. He was very nice about it. Hugged me when I was crying, but that didn't make her well. They did the X-ray just by holding her, which was pretty simple cause she just laid there panting. I saw the "mass" and it was putting pressure under her lungs. She only had about 1/4 the lung capacity she should have had or less and her heart was enlarged maybe twice what it should have been. I still didn't want to give up, so he gave her the meds and said to continue the antibiotics maybe we could keep her hydrated and get over infection enough to maybe try to remove it. This is really hard. He only gave her a week to 10 days. Drove two hours home. I stepped in our back door and she started squirming around in her pouch, like she always did when she knew we were back home. She came out and looked at me. She had a weird look in her eyes, kinda like she was looking past me. She opened her mouth really really wide to take a breath, but she couldn't get it. Then she reached out with her little hand towards me, grabbing at me...Oh!!!! I was hysterical. I couldn't help her!!!! And she reached out to me about 3 times like that and I couldn't help her get air. The mass had already taken the rest of her lung capacity just on the way home I guess. She closed her little eyes and it was over. I just wonder if the "mass" was some kind of fluid instead of tumor like he suspected for it to "grow" so fast. Maybe she absorbed it on the way home and it collected there. I don't know if its possible. He said it wasn't fluid and he claims he didn't "palpate" it on Monday...but I'm not so sure that it wasn't already there. I was always rubbing her belly, and I'm pretty sure it was there only smaller than yesterday, but then again, I'm not a vet so I don't know what I'm supposed to feel and what I'm not. It was small when I felt it about 2 or 3 weeks ago, I thought it was her stomach. Yesterday it felt like it went all the way from one side of her to the other. Anyway...he said this kind of "mass" is usually quick and hard to catch, then told me a sad story about a ferret. Like I needed ANOTHER sad story! So she's resting next to her dad in my flower garden, and I just hope she can breathe now, where ever she is. Thanks to everyone for all your advice, especially Jen for trying so hard. I really appreciate you all. Just wish I had better news. I still have mom, but it's not the same, she never really liked me as much as my baby. She was born here, so she grew up with me. I just wish I could get that image out of my head, her reaching out to me....I need to go clean up her "sick cage" and wash pouches and cages, etc. but I can't quit bawling long enough. Maybe in a day or two...Thanks again everyone.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/29/07 07:13 PM

cry I am sitting here crying for you. hug2 I am so so sorry! Please try and step back and feel in your heart all the love and happiness you gave to her. Knowing now, that her weary body is now at peace, and her love is the air that you breathe. I wish I could give you a people hug!
hug2 Love, Light and Blessing......Rest in Peace sweet little one gangel
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/29/07 07:39 PM

Thank you. I wish you could too. I REALLY need a hug, but I don't have anyone here that cares as much as I did, so they don't understand why I can't stop crying. Everyone just keeps saying it's better now, she's resting...but it's not better for me because my heart hurts so much. I said in the beginning that she probably hated me since I had to give her medicine all the time and someone (I'm sorry I can't remember who it was) said they thought it helped with the bonding sometimes...I really believe it did, because when she did seem like she felt better (maybe just for one day) she played with my hair & curled up by my neck. I thought it would be a LITTLE better today, but it's just worse. I'm having a really hard time with this one...Crazy thing is that she was still eating really, really good the day I took her to the PetSmart vet (Monday). Wednesday night is when she stopped eating altogether. I had stopped the Ace because Jen said it probably would sedate her too much so I thought that was why she wasn't eating...I guess it was too late then. I don't know. I keep blaming myself, if I had taken her to this one in the beginning he could have found it sooner and probably got it out, then should wouldn't have had to suffer and take all the meds that wouldn't work on this anyway...I don't know how to get through this one...I miss her sooooo much! I want to say thank you to everyone again, all of you have GREAT BIG WONDERFUL LOVING AND CARING HEARTS.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/29/07 08:03 PM

I'm so very very sad to read of your loss.

I hope that your grief can transform to joy as you remember her, and that the process of that transformation goes quickly.

My cat did that - reaching for me while gasping for breath - when she died. It is an image I'll never get out of my head. However, that image has faded so that I can remember our happy times together more frequently. I can think of her and smile now.

It just takes time. Please don't blame yourself. Hindsight does NO good - and is only useful for beating yourself up. Hold this thought: You made the ABSOLUTE BEST decisions you could make with the information you had available at the time. End of Story.

Big Hugs!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/29/07 09:06 PM

Thank you, also. I hope it fades quickly. That's the only thing that's keeping me bawling so much because I do know that she's resting peacefully now. I keep trying to tell myself that over and over today, probably tomorrow and every day from now, etc., but it doesn't seem to be helping, not today anyway...it will eventually. I did try to do what I could, and it didn't seem like it was as bad as a "large mass" because after the UTI she bounced back so good for about 2 or 3 weeks, then the eye infection again, still being obsessed with the hair on the top of her head, but she had energy, was eating, was playing, running in her wheel. The labored breathing only started just last weekend when she was running in her wheel. Poor little thing couldn't hardly catch her breath then, but she kept running no matter what until I took it away from her. At that time I thought it was still respiratory and it probably wasn't good for her to stress her lungs so much. I would have never thought of anything this bad. Each time she went to whichever vet she went, she was always too bad to put under for X-ray, but too alert to hold down. Should have asked for that in the very beginning, even if I had to hold her myself! You would think one of them would have done that in the beginning, just to make sure it was respiratory, but you're right, doesn't do any good to look back on that now. Just makes me cry more. I've got to stop it. Don't want to go back to work tomorrow, everyone will ask me how "the baby" is...you know what's going to happen then...Can't type at work when I can't see what I'm doing and don't want to anyway, but I have to now, gotta pay vet bills for my baby I don't even have anymore, but he tried to tell me before the X-ray that the outcome wouldn't be good...I didn't listen. I always have it in my head that maybe, just maybe it isn't as bad as THEY think it is! What was I thinking? Miracle maybe? Thanks again, from the bottom of my broken heart.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/30/07 09:44 PM

Aw, Boogie, I'm sorry. hug2 hug2 hug2

My concern with her being sedated so much was if her heart rate and circulation were too slow she couldn't cycle the bad stuff out of her system, or process the meds or food properly. Please don't blame yourself-and having seen 8 to the Bridge myself, I know how much it hurts and how big a piece of you they can take with them. She was very, very ill, and some of the vets didn't make it any easier.

It's not too late to bond with Mom, either (and treats go a long way to winning a little glider's heart). She'll need extra attention without her daughter there, too, even if it sometimes seems like she doesn't-gliders do grieve. Please keep us updated on her!

I wish I could have done more.

hug2 hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/31/07 01:18 AM

I sure appreciate all of you. As far as doing more, Jen, I think you did great with not being able to actually see her. I'm pretty sure if she had more time, and you had seen her IN PERSON, I'm almost positive you could have found it. I've only had 3, and never had to handle a sick one. It made it even harder to watch her go. She was to the point where she didn't want to be left alone at all. She would always be out of her pouch no matter what time and wait for me to take her out. Then she would go to sleep. She didn't even want to stay on the heating pad. Had to be me. Guess that's the only part of her being sick that I DIDN'T HATE...I'm glad you were all here for me, especially Jen, you gave me a lot of good advice. Thank you all again. I think I still have some pictures of her on my computer, I think I'll go see if I can find them. I'll give updates on momma. She seems to be doing fine. She was almost always by herself anyway, and got kinda grouchy sometimes when daddy was here, after he died she still had baby in the cage right next to her so we'll see how well she does now...I'll keep an eye on her and let everyone know how she's doing. I was wondering if anyone else has had a glider with this problem or if it's common or not?
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/31/07 01:31 AM

It depends on what was actually going on in there. I've had one that had free fluid around the liver when that and his gall bladder were failing...seen on ultrasound. Fluid can develop around heart and lungs as well, either in response to organ failure or massive infection. Without actually doing a necropsy (postmortem) it can be difficult to say, and even then sometimes you're left with more questions than answers. And it won't bring the little one back. frown I don't think your Mama is at risk from whatever it was, which would be a reason to have a necropsy done, if that helps. She may get lonely without at least a 'neighbor' to talk to, tho, so do watch for signs of depression.

And we'd love to see pictures. smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/31/07 05:59 AM

The vet mentioned most likely the liver, but kept saying he was almost positive it was not fluid, just amazes me how she seemed so much better after baytril got rid of UTI and she had shot of fluids she was eating really good that same night. Had more energy, then within a couple of weeks she was going downhill again. He said a common problem with gliders when you try to rehydrate them that the fluid will collect in the ?whatever the name for the "wings" are??? can't remember. He said eventually it would be absorbed, but makes it hard for them to glide for a while. He said since she wasn't gliding anyway, he could do it. I'm still trying to convince myself it was fluid and not cancer. Just don't want to face that. I thought about necropsy, but after all she went through, couldn't stand the thought of that either.I read something in the beginning of her illness about something causing damage to the liver, but can't remember what it was..probably a lot of things, just wonder if it started there. Whatever it was, I'm pretty convinced that it started lower around the intestinal area, etc., which probably caused the UTI and soft stool in the beginning, was putting pressure somewhere there. Probably why she started on her tail. And the larger it got the more room it took up. Had nowhere else to go I guess. Yes, I started wondering if it was something that she could get, but when I cleaned the cage I used soap and water and a little bleach, then took it outside and sprayed it down good to rinse it off. I let it air dry, but still wiped it down with a clean dry towel. guess I'm getting paranoid now, but I sure don't want her to got through that same thing. Every time she comes out to see me, I'm amazed at how much better she looked than her baby, I'd been looking at baby so much lately I forgot just how healthy they normally look. She's really really fast!!! Forgot about that too! Anyway, it's been a little easier today, if everyone at work hadn't asked me how she was doing...I knew it would happen, they had seen her so much and even they were getting kind of attached to her. She did that, she was a very friendly girl when she was healthy. And they wouldn't ask me about her all at the same time for everyone to hear it at once, they all had to come back 5 different times alone to ask...had to go through it so many times today, it's getting somewhat easier to tell it. Only cried 4 out of 5 times today!! ;-) I should go to bed, I'm so tired lately from sleeping with her and doctoring and worrying, maybe I can get a little rest now. Doubt it, now I'll probably just worry about mom, but I'm going to try. Will keep you updated. Thanks, Jen and everyone else! You guys are great! I still haven't found the pics, but I'm sure they're here somewhere. I never delete anything! LOL
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 07/31/07 10:27 AM

After I get some sleep, I'll go thru my pics and find the shots of Chronos' ultrasound (and his threads)-and you can see if it looks at all like what you saw on the Xrays. Sometimes seeing helps-even if it's to describe what is different about the films. It 'sounds' like she ended up with pneumonia (which can be very, very hard to treat once established), and possibly if liver or heart involvement, fluid can collect also. Chronos also had his gall bladder swell to the size of a 10 pound cat's-it was huge, and on his last day, you could not only feel it, when he was shaved you could see it. Fluid (on ultrasound) was a black void on the film-solid masses show white-but so can infection (as with my Riker). I've also had a father/son succumb to a congenital defect, where the intestinal wall started leaking at about a year old, and they collected fecal matter in the abdominal cavity-until they started bloating (not IN the intestine, but outside of it) you wouldn't have known anything at all was wrong, and they were gone in less than 30 hours. BabyBoy (the daddy) was 1 year, 25 days old...his son, Peek, was 1 year, 26 days-and physically he looked just like his dad with the same mellow disposition. The twins that took after mom, Hush and Teal'c, passed their third birthday in June. Cause of death on those two was confirmed by necropsy. Nothing could have stopped it, slowed it, saved them once it started, and no way to predict or prevent it, either.

Amd I hate to say it, but by the time they're to the point Chronos and yours were, surgery is as likely to kill as help-maybe even moreso. Been there on that one. I wouldn't change my decision where he was concerned...but I may hesitate before repeating it next time. hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 08/01/07 02:49 AM

He was convinced it wasn't fluid, but I don't know. Don't know what it would look like if it was, but her X-ray showed an almost clear but mostly pale white colored oval. Looked like an egg almost. Not real white, mostly kind of transparent. Had a definite outline to it though, right below the lungs and above the intestines. He drew around where I was supposed to be able to see the lungs and there was just a tiny little line along where her spine would be down to less than 1/4 inch then up towards her neck. That was all the room she had left. I knew she wouldn't make it to have any surgery, but he was doing what I asked him to do. He knew by then I couldn't give her to him, so he said we'll just keep doing the meds and go from there. I probably should have made the other decision, but...
I haven't found her pictures yet, still looking. Hope I still have them.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 08/01/07 08:10 PM

Whenever you do, we'll love to see. First, I'm going to post the thread of Chronos' surgery. I took them in the OR, and warn you they're graphic. It's something to keep in mind if you're tempted to beat yourself up for not going this route, either now or future, plus abominal surgery on a glider, under IDEAL conditions with them strong enough, and you'll still end up with no better than a 50/50 chance if they have to go very deep, let alone on one weak and sick:

Chronos' Surgery:

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/240796#Post240796


Chronos' Illness:

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/226341/fpart/1

His surgery thread includes pictures of the ultrasound.

And here's one of Riker who had an infection in his head-unlike a solid cyst or abscess, it was diffused through the tissue, but you can still see the unusual whiteness in the picture-that's because the Xrays were refracting off the infection and scattering.
The first Xray is with the infection at it's worst. The second after almost a month on medication:



Description: with infection
Attached picture RikerXray110104 Not Normal.jpg

Description: A month on meds
Attached picture Rikers X Ray 11 04.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 08/03/07 06:11 AM

In Riker's normal X-ray, see the oval on the left top side of the abdominal area (I know it's not a cyst or tumor and I'm sure that's an organ of some kind I just don't know what part, but just for comparison), Baby's oval was almost that color maybe less white, more transparent, no dark spots in it at all and she was on her side and it was almost twice that size right under her ribs and down. The width of Riker's spine is about the width that she had left to breath plus a little bit wider up towards her throat, but that's all she had left. The oval was pushing up too much on her lungs.
Yeah, after seeing those pics, and the sad, very sad outcome, I don't know if I would have tried, but I pretty much knew she wouldn't make it long enough for that, but I've never been one to give up. I probably should have just let her go, it might have been easier on both of us. Mostly her. I think the one thing that makes me feel so bad about it, is that I didn't want her to be in pain, but I'm almost positive she was, and I think that's why I'm so mad at myself. I never wanted her to hurt, just wanted her to get well. Maybe that's why he put the pain meds in with the fluid shot, he knew she wouldn't make it as long as he told me she would. He said maybe 7 to 10 days. I think he knew better. I hope the shot worked so it didn't hurt so bad. That's what I think I'm really beating myself up about. I think...not sure that's the only thing.
I'm so sorry about your Chronos. I guess sometimes it doesn't make any difference how hard you try, if their little bodies can't go on, they just can't go on. Maybe one of these days I'll get that through my head. Just can't stop thinking about her pain.
I found a few of the pictures I had, but they didn't seem to be very clear. Can't find the good ones yet. Then I'll have to remember how to put them on here...not very good at that. My son had to do the other pics of her head and tail...maybe I can snag him again. Again, my sympathy to you for Chronos' sad ending. You're a lot tougher than I am, sharing all those pics with all of us. Thanks again for everything.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 08/03/07 06:42 AM

I just typed this REALLY long reply, but I guess it didn't go. My computer is a piece...lately it doesn't want to load the pages here or the pics or anything...don't know what's wrong with it. Anyway, I can't remember what I typed, but I'll try to do it again.
In Riker's normal x-ray, see the white oval-shaped spot on his upper left side of the abdominal area, (I know it's not a cyst or tumor, I'm sure it's an organ of some kind, just don't know what, but just for comparison) Baby's oval was almost that white color, more transparent with no dark spots. She was on her side and it was right under her ribs and down. The width of Riker's spine is about the width of lung capacity she had left plus a little wider up towards the throat, but that's all. After seeing the pics, I'm not sure I would have gone through with that, but I was pretty sure she wouldn't make it that long anyway. But I've never been one to just give up. Probably should have.
I think what I'm really beating myself up about is that I never wanted her to feel any pain at all, and I'm pretty sure she probably did. Guess that's why he gave her the pain meds in the fluid shot. He probably knew she wouldn't make it 7-10 days like he said, but he figured out I couldn't give her to him. I hope the pain meds were working enough that she didn't feel too much pain. I'm pretty sure that's why I'm so mad at myself...I don't know if that's the only thing, but I think that's the main thing.
I'm so sorry about your Chronos. I guess it doesn't matter how hard we try, if their little bodies can't go on, then they can't go on. You're a lot tougher than I am, taking and sharing the pics.
In the very last pic, your little guy had a gray pouch that looked just like my little girl's pouch, same one she came home from the vet in last Saturday. My mom made it for her. She had several houses and pouches to pick from, but she always went back to that one.
Again, my sympathy to you for your loss of Chronos.
Thanks again. (I hope this message goes this time!!)
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 08/06/07 11:56 AM

There very likely was fluid in there, and possibly with infection. I've talked to some people about Ace Promezine and gliders, and the consensus was it would aggravate pneumonia. I'm sure the painkiller worked hug2 - you'd know if it didn't-they do what's called agonal breathing, and it's horrible to watch. They open their mouth very very wide (gasping for air), and flail and spasm-sometimes will crab when it hurts...I've been thru it with 2-once I was at the vets and able to sign the euthanasia order at that time...with Chronos it was too fast, and he'd had a shot of pain meds plus what I put down him when I saw the end coming and it still didn't help. It's an image that will live with me forever.

I'm the same way-I will fight to the end as long as there's hope, and the suffering isn't intolerable, and there's hope of getting through it. Had I known how Chronos was going to go after, I very well may never have let him come out of surgery. It was his last chance, and worse when they got in there than it looked on film, and though the hope was small, it was there, and he'd done SO well prior. He wasn't in bad pain until 15 minutes before he passed-and the vet was an hour away...there was nothing more I could do but hold him. And even though we don't like pain-it's a useful tool that tells us there's something wrong. Without it, we'd keep walking on broken bones...or not seek medical attention when we should. It's not the enemy, as much as it can seem like it. I don't think your little girl was in much pain, if any-she crossed the Bridge with you, and knew she was loved. Gliders also have instinctive reactions when they die-like trying to climb. That isn't pain-it's the brain shutting down to the most basic levels. Height is safety in the world of a glider. It's painful to US to watch, but not an indication of distress, if that helps. I decided with my first glider, my SM, Riker, that I would share all I learned with others so maybe a glider could be helped by it. Is that painful sometimes? Very. But I seem to have the ability to get through it, and it would be selfish of me not to use the resource, painful or not, so I share. Surgery is a VERY last resort, because a vet has very little time-glider's don't have a lot of blood, but they bleed just as profusely as any other animal, so they have much less time to do the same thing when you go that route.

I think there were a number of things that your vets could have done differently, including responding a bit quicker to a changing situation-but that's in the past, and we learn as we go. I'm very angry at the one who put the rescue cat first-yours had a chance, and with gliders, waiting is not something they can handle well-by the time they show symptoms, you are out of time, unlike with larger animals. I'd let the Petco one (or whatever) one know too that Ace is not acceptible for an animal as small as a glider, either. It's much too powerful, and reduces the vascular ability so they can't heal. It just wasn't designed for something the size of a glider. If you ever need one again, now you know what to ask for, and what to say 'no' to.

And your post went thru-it's the nature of this forum it will take time. So when you post pictures-do that in Glider Talk-that way we can all reply. smile I'm looking forward to your pictures.

There's nothing wrong with not giving up when there's still a chance-that's a personal choice we all have to face-how far we will, or won't, go. hug2 hug2 From your description, I don't think she was suffering in pain when she crossed, and she will wait for you at the Rainbow Bridge.

If you like, you can open a thread to discuss internal medicine in Health that can be posted to easier, and those of us who've dealt with this sort of thing can discuss this in more detail easier.

Again, I'm so sorry for your loss. I don't think it was a growth per se, fluid internally can encapsulate itself, especially if it's been there awhile in the body's attempts to heal it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Help with overgrooming and poor appetite - 08/07/07 05:59 AM

Well, that makes sense, climbing...never really thought about that. She didn't crab any at all. She wiggled a little in her pouch, poked her head out, then reached out with her hand but there was nothing there so I reached for her and she grabbed my finger. Then she paused maybe 1/2 second, then opened her mouth really really wide and reached out with her other hand and grabbed another finger. She climbed a little bit further out of her pouch, opened her mouth maybe one more time and that was all. By the time she came out of the pouch, her eyes looked kind of "far away." Know what I mean? Like she was just looking through me. I just figured she couldn't get enough air to crab anyway. I'm sure it was a horrible and very scary feeling and probably did hurt some, but I'm still trying to convince myself that she didn't feel a LOT of pain. I really hope that was the case. I hate thinking that she was relying on me to help her breathe and I couldn't, since I can't get that picture out of my head. It's fading a little, but very little. Momma is coming around again, slowly, but still has this thing about licking my hands constantly. Always washing my hands to make sure she doesn't "eat" any lotion, ink from work or anything weird. Doesn't matter if I just wash them or maybe wait 30 minutes or so, she still licks all over...Don't know what that's about, but I like to think she's just kissin' on me! LOL!
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