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Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts

Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 02:38 PM

As you may know, 10 days ago I elected to have surgery on Little Bruce Lee. This was an agonizing decision. My vet and I spent 1 1/2 hours debating all the "what ifs" and "worst case scenerios" before I came to my decision. The reality was that there just was NO good decision. I was choosing between bad and worse. So, I thought I would bring it here and share with you what I have learned.

Bruce Lee was a mill bred glider who was sold with a significant injury to his foot. You can read more about him here: "Gimp Glider" Thread

Anyway, Bruce Lee is another unfortunate victim of being pulled from his parents too early. He was estimated at 4 1/2 weeks OOP when he came to me.

I searched and searched before taking him to the vet, but was unable to find anyone with experience in having surgery on a joey this young. Also unable to find anyone with a joey with such a significant injury at this young. So, we had to go with what we know.

Concerns that the vet and I debated and discussed:

1) Bruce Lee's Age certainly was prohibitive. So little is known about neurological development once OOP.

2) At 4 1/2 weeks OOP, thermoregulation is an issue already. EVERY animal looses body temperature (gets cold) when anesthesized. Would this be detrimental to a joey who already has trouble maintaining body temp?

3) At the time I was at the vet, the necrosis was severe in the foot and beginning to creep up the leg. Surgery today meant that I might be able to save the leg, thereby improving mobility for his future. Many gliders live full, happy lives with NO leg. However, don't I have a responsibiilty to save what I can?

4) I live 6 hours from my vet. IF the necrosis were to begin spreading much faster than we anticipated, would Bruce Lee make it to even the closest trusted emergency vet 4 hours away?

5) At the moment, Bruce was experiencing no pain. He had likely had the injury since birth. It was definately an old injury. If I allow the necrosis to continue spreading in order to improve Bruce's chances of surviving surgery, he may begin experiencing pain, which could lead to SM. Again, I am 6 hours from my vet.

6) Bruce Lee weighed only 26 grams at that time. The difference in anesthesia use with a 26 gram baby and a, say, 45 gram baby is negligable. Dr. Walsh felt that we could wait - at MOST - 2 more weeks before we would HAVE TO do the surgery. Was it worth the wait and the risk to try to put some weight on him and increase his age to 6 1/2 weeks OOP?

7) I was not about to risk the necrosis creeping beyond the leg. It HAD to be taken care of before it left the leg. So, either way, Bruce Lee was going to be under 8 weeks OOP when he had this major surgery.

8) Given all my experience with Jackie Chan, I am not a huge fan of anesthesia at all. But, I do understand that it cannot be avoided at times and that most gliders will never experience as much anesthesia as Jackie. But, I was concerned about a young joey's ability to rid his body of the anesthesia.

Turns out, I was right to be concerned. Weighing the risks either way, it seemed to me to be a wash. I decided to go ahead with the surgery at 4 1/2 weeks OOP in hopes that Bruce would only loose his foot, would recover well, and would compensate excellently since he has never had use of the foot.

Surgery was VERY quick and went without complication. However, it was 3 days before Bruce was able to hold body heat AT ALL after the surgery. AND, he was lethargic, pretty listless and not eating well for 6 days. Furthermore, since the surgery, Bruce Lee has no interest in grooming at all (previously he kept his face and tail VERY well groomed). He is constantly a mess. I am still hand feeding just to make sure I know exactly how much he is taking in. Even still, he is a constant mess. I have to clean feces and urine off him multiple times every day. Yesterday, I was able to give him a good bath (vet didn't want him to be 'wet" for at least 8 days), only to have him messy an hour later. But through it all, his leg is healing very nicely. AND, he has gained a lot of weight. He is up to 35 grams now.

It has been a long, hard 10 days. Bruce Lee reminds me a lot of Naruto - which tugs at my heart fiercly. I have spent every day thinking the "shoulda, coulda"s, but yesterday Bruce Lee really perked up. He is now climbing all over, maintaing his body heat, eating like a champ and moving his leg. He didn't move his little leg at all before the surgery, but he is now practicing using it! I am keeping him in the incubator for another week or so, just to be safe, and then will try him in his own little cage.

So, looking back, I still don't know if it is best to wait or if I made the right decision. I sure hope that there is never another who needs to make this same decision.





OH, how 'bout a picture or two of Bruce Lee?
Sleeping Angel

Could he BE any Cuter?

I think babies eating out of a measuring spoon is SOOO cute. So, I have been using this to train Bruce Lee to eat independently.
This is how I get so messy

Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 02:49 PM

OMG! Val - he is adorable! I don't think he needs his own cage. I think he just needs to be on you in some form or other 24/7!!
Posted By: MagicEyez

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 02:50 PM

You are simply amazing Val ~ hug2
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 02:50 PM

Oh Val...what an adorable little guy!

I think you did make the right decision. You considered all sides of it and followed your heart. Looks like he is well on his way to a happy life finally. Maybe he has had Naruto looking after him too whispering in his ear..
"hey, this lady LOVES like no other...hang in there, it'll be soooooo worth it!"
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 02:58 PM

Val, your little guy reminds me so much of my sweet Carina Trey. Like Bruce she was way too young to be away from Mom & Dad and was facing a possible surgery. Luckily in her case it wasn't imperative that she be operated on instantly since the tissue was mostly healed and there was nothing necrotic going on with her hand. I know from having faced the possibility of taking a too young glider to surgery myself how you must have felt when trying to make the decision about Bruce. Given his circumstance, I think you made the right call. I know it's been scary for you both during and after the surgery, but I can also tell from Bruce's sweet face that having you by his side through it all has made the difference for him. Hugs to you both, and thank you for being his angel.
Posted By: Sherri

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 02:59 PM

I just want to cry! Val you are the best glider mommy any baby could have! And Bruce Lee is gorgeous!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 03:00 PM

^ ^ That is so awesome to hear. ^ ^ I'm glad his doing great! And He is SOOOOO ADORABLE!!!
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 03:08 PM

hug2 He is so adorable. I'm so glad he's doing so well! Bless you, Val.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 03:41 PM

Val:



God bless you for being there for these very special little ones.......you are their angel on earth!!!
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 07:10 PM

Val,
I really believe that you made the right decision for little Bruce Lee and although there were many factors against him, he pulled through it anyway. I'm so glad he's getting past the anesthesia side-effects now and hopefully soon he will start to gain strength as well as weight. It's wonderful that he's gained so much already!
Thanks for sharing the pictures, too. He's such a little sweety mlove
You're an awesome glider mom hug2
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 07:26 PM

Val, you and Bruce Lee also showed the glider vets that joeys that young CAN survive surgery. It's risky yes but If the vet has no other choice, can't wait, there is Bruce Lee to show them that it can be done.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 07:46 PM

Oh Val -- he is the most beautiful little boy! heart heart I didn't even notice the site of the surgery the first 6 times I looked at those pictures. smile

I am so thankful that he has pulled through and is getting stronger, and I am equally thankful that there are wonderful, loving, and dedicated people like you who love without reservation.

What a precious boy - I am just beaming that he is doing so well and on the way to being fully healed. mlove
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/15/08 10:52 PM

Oh what a tiny little cutie!!!

I am so glad to hear he is doing better and gaining weight and not letting his loss affect him so badly!! You did an amazing thing helping this little guy out...and he's going to love you more and more every day!!!

I love the pic of him eating from the spoon!! How adorable is that? smile
Posted By: Flgliderlover

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 12:00 AM

Awww . . . do gliders get any cuter than that? I think not! Great job, Val! jump
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 02:25 AM

Hello everyone. I am Val's sister, Jamie. Because of this, I feel like I should step in here and update everyone on what is happening today. Val had posted on another forum, but then broke down again and is not able to make this post. So, I said I would. After Val made a post this morning was after Bruce had eaten real well and fallen asleep in Val's hands. Cute as a button that one! unfortunatly, when Val went back in the room to check on him at noonish, Bruce had died. It is so very sad to know that this is what we can expect from mills. I hope that all of you will join me in praying for Val. She is not ready to talk about it yet. With the recent loss of Naruto not even two weeks ago and now Bruce, Val is very unsure of how well she takes care of babies. I can tell you first hand that she is completely awesome, but I can't make her believe it. She has said for days that Bruce reminds her so much of Naruto, and now she is just a wreck. I don't know what else to do. I'm sure she will talk about it when she feels ready. This is a huge loss for us and I know that we are not the only ones feeling it
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 02:32 AM

Oh I'm so sorry! cry Oh Jamie, please tell Val that she gave him the best care and the best love she could. And they know this - the little ones - they do know this. They do. They know who loves them - an d how lucky he was to have found her. What a miserable place Val must have saved him from, and she gave him the best possible last days of his life. Please tell her this. He couldn't have been in better, more loving hands.

Just think how at peace he was when he left, and how happily he must be greeting his fellow gliders in Heaven. gangel Please tell Val that we're all grieving with her - and are sending many many hugs her way. hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 02:46 AM

I'm so sorry Val cry

hug2
Posted By: tbull

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 03:04 AM

cry cry hug2 I'm so sorry. hug2 He couldn't have been in better, more loving hands.
Posted By: BCChins

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 03:21 AM

Val first off I am so very very sorry this has happened to Bruce now.
Now as far as you not taking the best possible care of these babies, you are very wrong. You put 200+% into every glider that comes into your life and even some that you never meet. Do not blame your self for something that only the people breeding unhealthy glider's can do something about. You did everything you could for both of these boys and then some. If it were not for you then they would have not know love/care and someone who really cares about them.

I am sending you lots of hugs

Jamie thank you for posting and letting us know about Bruce Lee. Take care of Val and give her hugs from us all.
Posted By: Suggiegramma

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 03:26 AM

Val, I'm so sorry to hear about Bruce Lee. You are such an amazing person to have helped him and Naruto like you did. You did everything you could...God must have had other special plans for both of them.
Posted By: USMom

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 03:28 AM

Val, as you know, I am just heartbroken. He was a wonderful baby. And you are a wonderful momma. Of course words don't mean much to you right now. I just pray for you and want to put my arms around you. And, I second what Brenda said.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 07:07 AM

Val, so sorry......
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 09:38 AM

Jamie:

Please give your sister a huge hug from all of us. She pm'd me (I just got it) and my heart is broken for her. She is a wonderful suggie mom and she did the best she could. I know she questioned doing that surgery, but if she didn't, the necrotic tissue would have killed him. The breeders who do this to these babies are the ones to blame!!

I am going to church today and light a candle for Val, Bruce and Naruto and all the little babies who no one will ever even know about who come from the same situation.

Val, my heart and prayers are with you. Godspeed Bruce Lee. You touched more people in your very short time here then most do in their whole, long life. Tom, please watch over this very special little guy. We all will miss him.
Posted By: jannee66

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 10:04 AM

I'm am soooooooooo sorry.... hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 10:20 AM

Jamie, thank you for posting this sad update for us cry

Val, our hearts are breaking with yours. We all thought he was going to pull through but it just wasn't meant to be cry Please know that you truly did everything possible for him and this is NOT your fault! Please know that we are here for you. Call me if you need someone's shoulder to cry on...
hug2 hug2 hug2

Sadly moving this over to Rainbow Memorials now cry
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 01:11 PM

cry hug2 cry hug2 I am so sorry. I agree with everyone else. Val, you are an angel and you have given these babies love and hope and care and what they needed. It's just not always enough - I think God wants the little cuties so he can play with them. You are the best and these mill breeders are the reason for these sick babies. Please do not blame yourself. hug2 hug2
Posted By: Sherri

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/16/08 01:55 PM

Val, I am so sorry. Lots of hugs and prayers being sent your way.
Posted By: Feather

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/17/08 09:02 PM

Val,

You did everything you could for the little fighter. Your not to blame in the decisions that you made regarding his health. The mill breeder is the person at fault in this whole senario.

Bruce Lee is now running free and whole over the Rainbow Bridge. Bless his little soul.

Please accept my sincerest condolences.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/18/08 12:02 AM

Thank you all very much for your kind words.

I wish I had some beautiful words to express how deeply crushing this blow has been. But I do not. Bruce Lee was a very special little guy. I am so humbled that my home was chosen for him and I hope that the little I learned through caring for him will one day be useful in saving another little one.

I loved him, but it wasn't enough. It never seems to be.
Posted By: dranger1108

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/18/08 12:06 AM

Val... I'm so sorry for your loss cry
I can tell in his last pictures he had such a look of love for you.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/18/08 12:16 AM

Val, Im so sorry. Because of you, Bruce Lee's last days were filled with caring and love. Please dont ever doubt the wonderful work you are doing.
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/18/08 01:24 AM

I'm so sorry Val. cry He knew what absolute love was while he was here and you gave that to him. hug2
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/18/08 04:23 PM

Val, I'm crying reading this news cry , but please know how much we all think of you and what you gave that little boy. He was given one gift before he left us - the gift of unconditional love and nurturing from you heart . I am so sad for your loss and you are in my prayers, but Bruce Lee knew he was deeply loved and would not want you to blame yourself. We all adore you Val, and we're all thinking of you! heart heart hug2
Posted By: kthiessen

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/20/08 06:38 PM

I'm so sorry. hug2
Posted By: tngliderlover

Re: Surgery, Bruce Lee & my thoughts - 05/21/08 04:06 PM

Val,
My heart is breaking for you. cry Please know that you are the best suggiemom a glider could ever want. Bruce Lee knew you loved him so much. gangel My thoughts and prayers are with you.
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