GliderCENTRAL

Sacer has cavities

Posted By: Anonymous

Sacer has cavities - 10/18/10 12:24 AM

Who has experience with gliders with cavities and how do you handle that? What can I do to help Sacers mouth pain and make him want to eat? Im 100% sure thats why he's not wanting to eat and thats why he's lost the weight and getting dehydrated. I thought it was his body not wanting to eat because he's so old but really, he has so many cavities its no wonder. His eyes are bright and he IS full of life, he runs in his wheel. He just seems that his body is healthy and its his teeth causing the problems. Further, Ive seen that me syringe feeding him is tearing up his gums. They look terrible and it hurts me so much to know Im trying my best to help him but Im hurting him. I dont know what to do anymore. It feels horrible and helpless. How can I help this cavity problem?
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/18/10 12:43 AM

Contact Chris: glidrz5
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/18/10 01:14 AM

If the vet has x-rayed and determined that the cavities are extensive, then I'm confused as to why the teeth were not pulled?
If this has not yet been done, it needs to be.

Gliders do great once their periodontal issues are cleared up. If this is a chronic problem, you may loose many teeth, but it is better than having a glider in pain.

Vet visit is necessary. It should include:
x-rays
removal of any significantly affected teeth
pain medication
antibiotics
oral rinse
Cleaning of remaining teeth.

The tartar has to be removed. The pain has to be managed.
The affected teeth have to be dealt with.

Once all of that is done, the glider should live a normal life with no modifications except a puree diet (if necessary).

I have several gliders with recurrent periodontal problems - one of them only has 7 teeth remaining and you would never know it to look at him. Best of luck to you and your baby. I hope to see you share this experience on the Sweet Spot's dental forum so that others can learn from your experience.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/18/10 02:01 AM

What are the age of the gliders that have been put through this process of removing teeth?
Posted By: SariYappa

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/18/10 03:00 AM

Kim, I'm so glad you think you found the problem! How do you know it's from cavities? I would never know how to look for this. Thanks for the info...
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/18/10 06:17 AM

I agree Sari, I am still feeling sorry for Sacer, but I am so glad Kim found the issue. This means hope. hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/18/10 09:13 AM

I can see the black on his teeth. That is definitely cavities. I guess thats what happens after 12 years of not brushing teeth. Teeth are going to decay. I wish I realized that about ohh 10 years ago. Id have made more effort to maybe clean his teeth? I can also see the damage I did to his gums by syringe feeding him, they are all cut up. I dont know if I want to pull his teeth at 12 years old. That is a lot to put an old man through. Or if there is even any vet near me that is qualified to touch my boy in such a way. Thats very invasive and if there is no vet in my area that can prove to me they know what they are doing then I wont even let them touch him. I dont know what to do right now and my heart is completely broken over this.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/18/10 12:26 PM

Kim if the teeth are bad they need to come out. If they stay in they could get infected which could lead to more health issues. I know how scary it is to put an old guy through surgery and I wouldn't recommend it unless it was necessary. However having delt with numerous peridontal issues of my own I can tell you they won't get better on their own and simply brushing won't help at this point. An x-ray would be a definate asset as it would let you see what was happening below the gum line, and can tell you how extensive the problem is. I do know with my gliders who have had teeth removed that it is not a real extensive or invasive surgery (depending on the number of teeth involved) and they come out of the anestetic very quickly.
Posted By: the gliders angel

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/19/10 03:30 AM

if u can travel to dr tristan it would be worth it as he is the best glider vet he did a speech at the sgga twice now i would go to him if it were me. even though he is a 4 day trip from me
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/19/10 03:39 AM

I am thinking this over. I need to get my facts together about what Im going to do and make some calls. I too will need an xray and someone who knows how to treat a sugar glider in my area. I already went to the one vet on the vet list for Knoxville. Shes closed for a bit right now. I also know older guys dont heal as fast as young ones. You cant even imagine the stress Im under.. well, probably you can. Its really hard.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/19/10 03:39 AM

Where is he?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/19/10 07:18 AM

Dr. Tristan is in Corpus Cristi, Texas. South coastal Texas, even. Not close by a long shot Kim. But he is THE best glider vet, in the US as far as a lot of folks are concerned. Here's his link in the database...

http://www.sugargliderhelp.com/links/pages/Detailed/24.html
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/19/10 09:10 AM

Ya theres no way Ill be getting to Texas anytime soon. I wish I could.
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/19/10 12:24 PM

What about possibly RR'ing him to Mary in TX? I know it would be stressful on him but he's super stressed now with that infection in his system.

His health is to the point where it's majorly affecting his quality of life. It's a hard decision.....possibly risk his life by pulling the teeth and/or RR'ing him or having him live with bad teeth and the pain/infection they cause, until the infection causes him to become septic. A vet needs to at least get him on antibiotics and pain meds, until you can make a decision.

You can also go to another vet from the list, instead of waiting for yours to open back up, and have them do a phone consult with other very experienced glider vets. Here are their numbers for your vet to call.

Dr. Tim Tristan
OSO Creek Animal Hospital
361-994-1145

Dr. Bradley Walsh
Village vet Animal Clinic/All Creatures Veterinary Hospital
Dr. Walsh's number is
918-258-0040

Dr. Andrew Grzanowski
Canton Center Animal Hospital
734-459-1400

Dr. Kate Zimmerman
TriCounty Animal Hospital
(has 24hr emergency contact info on her office answering machine)
423-391-0303

Dr. Teresa Bradley
Belton Animal Clinic
816-331-3120

Dr. Kristen West
Mandel Veterinary Hospital
216-321-6040

Wishing you the best of luck and sending many prayers your way!
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/19/10 01:25 PM

Kim - I have treated many gliders over 10 years old. They do not tend to heal slower. They do just fine. I have even neutered males as old as 9 years.

You really need to get this guy in to a vet - preferably one that has dealt with periodontal issues in gliders or will consult with one who has. Don't allow your stress and worry to delay this little one getting treatment. He will be fine. With you loving on him afterward, how could he not?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/20/10 01:17 AM

Originally Posted By: suggiemom_1980
What about possibly RR'ing him to Mary in TX? I know it would be stressful on him but he's super stressed now with that infection in his system.


No, I am not going to RR him. If he died and he died away from me, I would absolutely NOT be ok with that. I would regret that for the rest of my life. In the end, I am the one that has to look into his eyes and accept what I put him through. I am not going to cause him that kind of stress. Not at his age and not in his condition. I have to look into his eyes everyday when I feed him and ..no. There is only 1 person I know that I would be ok if he died with. Thats Bourbon. She was around when he was just a little guy and he took right to her and Nikki. That was 11 years ago. Anyone else, I cant do it.

Originally Posted By: suggiemom_1980
His health is to the point where it's majorly affecting his quality of life. It's a hard decision.


Yeah, Im dealing with a lot of hard decisions right now. I had a tooth that cracked in May. In June I could afford to see a dentist. I dont have insurance and they told me first I had to get my wisdom teeth pulled which I had to save up $1200 for. Then after that I could get my cracked tooth fixed. I had a bad infection in the cracked tooth and I was on antibiotics for til I saved the money to fix it. I need a root canal and a crown and that will cost me $1600. Just this month I had finally reached the money to get my dental work done. Then Sacer needed to go to the vet. That blew that opportunity. Ive been getting sick like crazy because my immune system is so weak fighting this tooth infection that keeps coming back. Im on antibiotics yet again because I was so sick I missed days at work which hurt my paycheck. I was in so much pain I couldnt think straight with the infection in my jaw. I work in a mall which puts me in contact with hundreds of people in a day, everyday. I catch everything that comes at me. So now my tooth is scheduled for next month after I get paid.. but now I have Sacers teeth to worry about. And his life. And if I decide I will pull his teeth and put him through that, what vet here would I be able to trust? There is 1 vet in the vet list for Knoxville. Already been to her. Im not made of money and I cant travel all over the place. Last month I took money out of my saved money for MY tooth to fix to take him to the vet because he needed to go.

Yeah, I have a lot of hard decisions. There is a lot more going on than I post here. I only post here what I need to, to gather facts to make the decisions I feel are best. Will I make the best decision every time? Maybe not but I try my best. Im overwhelmed right now with physical and emotional pain so Im doing the best I can.
Posted By: SariYappa

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/20/10 02:19 AM

hug2 I'm sorry things are so bad right now Kim. Just go with your gut, and do what you can. There is no more. hug2

I hope Sacer is doing better today.
I see no reason why you can't bring him to the current vet, and ask if they will take phone advise from another well versed Vet that can help if there are issues. agree
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/20/10 02:41 AM

The vet he went to, the only one listed for Knoxville, is closed right now. She is moving her clinic. Everything is boxed up and she will be closed for a bit. I definitely dont want her doing any dental work on him.
Posted By: the gliders angel

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/20/10 05:03 AM

iknow there are glider knowledgeable vets in surrounding cities like nc florida maybe you can go to one there
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/21/10 08:12 AM

How is Sacer doing?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/21/10 09:28 AM

He's ok, he is maintaining how he's been. I spoke with Chris and also with Bourbon and now have a plan to help Sacer. Sacer is going to go stay with Bourbon and see her vet. He's going to be on baytril and also pain meds. If being on pain meds helps his appetite come back to where he eats on his own, then the problem most likely is his teeth and not something else going on. In that case, I can look into pulling any teeth that need to come out. Meanwhile Bourbons vet can have a good look at his teeth and see if what I see really is cavities or not, and what Im looking at. Im going to be on vacation in Florida for a couple days next week and Ive been stressing over this for awhile. I had these plans made before Sacer started having problems and now I feel some relief. Bourbons going to hold onto him for awhile and take care of him and that should help my stress level. Im going to miss him terribly but its for the best for him. Ill be all that much happier to have him back when I do get him.
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/21/10 09:33 AM

Awe, Kim. hug2 I think that Sacer will benefit from this decision, and it will give you a much needed break. How wonderful for a community to care so much about each other.

I hope you will be able to relax a bit, it will still be very hard if Sacer is not with you. Thinking of you!
Posted By: chattrbabe

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/21/10 09:51 AM

hug2 Kim, I think this is a good choice. Bourbon is a phenominal woman and with her, Sacer will be over spoiled and get lots of rubs. heart

Speaking of which, I need to call her... I haven't talked to her in a long time! blush
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/21/10 11:53 PM

I feel bad to put him through that stress of leaving his environment to go into a totally different environment but I guess its the best thing for him. Its not safe to leave him home while Im gone on my trip so if hes going to Bourbon for a couple days, he might as well stay longer and have her fix him up. I will miss him so much. Ive had a sugar glider by my side for the past 14 years and never been away from them. It should help my stress to go down tho because I know hes in the best hands and it will give me a break from the constant feedings and scheduling everything I do around his needs for a little while.
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/22/10 12:11 AM

Bourbon is the glider whisperer! She will take excellent care of Sacer! You made a wonderful choice, both for Sacer and for yourself. I'm sure he's sensed your stress and anxiety.

Sending lots of prayers your way!
Posted By: the gliders angel

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/22/10 12:55 AM

he is in the ultimate care with bourbon she is the glider expert and i dont think he will stress with all the knowledgeable attention he will get from her. he couldnt be with anyone better.
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/22/10 01:35 AM

Awww Kim...I know it's bittersweet for you. But he'll be in wonderful hands and will take a weight off your shoulders for a bit. This is needed by both of you, I think. Thinking of you!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/25/10 12:02 PM

Bourbon is here, she looked at Sacer and he doesnt have cavities. It was most likely debris stuck in his teeth, up against his gums. He is fine, but he has an unusual arch in the wide portion of his back. She was massaging it out of his back and the control of his leg is coming back. I dont remember if I posted about him losing control and dragging his leg. Bourbon is sure she has it figured out and she will be taking him home today and he will see her vet. My stress is feeling so much better already. I havent seen Bourbon in about 11 years so it feels great.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/25/10 12:13 PM

Glad to see that Sacer is doing better....hope the TLC continues to help.
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/25/10 12:14 PM

How wonderful! I am so glad Bourbon is there for you Kim. hug2
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/25/10 12:18 PM

So wonderful to hear such fantastic news!!!! He is in great hands! Looking forward to more positive updates!
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/25/10 12:30 PM

Once he gets that out from between his teeth he will feel sooooooooooooooo much better. Glad to hear about Bourbon's healing touch also. Go Sacer!
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/25/10 12:34 PM

What wonderful news, Kim! Thank you for continuing to let us know how he's doing. Now let's hope that you, too, can "heal". smile
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/27/10 07:02 AM

We would love some updates on how Sacer is doing. What did Bourbon's vet say? How is our little Sacer?
Posted By: chattrbabe

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/27/10 07:23 AM

I have updates but the videos won't load. worried

Sacer is doing well as of tonight. As from what I understand, his illness is a possible bladder or kidney infection. His body is very sensitive and the vet is thinking the lump may be from Sacer hyper-extending so much, to relieve the pain from his kidneys or bladder. He is on medication right now and if there is no improvement, there will be x-rays. He has absolutely no cavities.

He was offered oranje juice and drank all on his own, as you will see in the videos once I get them to load to here.

Sacer will get better! dance
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/27/10 07:36 AM

Oh our poor honey Sacer. hug2 Sending healing prayers to him. Glad to hear Sacer WILL get better! Wooo hoo, you go Sacer!

Thank you for the update Ash!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/27/10 11:49 AM

Hey all, Im currently still in Florida right now and have limited to no internet access most of the time but I did want to say until I get home and settled, Ash will be giving the updates. Sacer is going to be fine so Im very happy. The other vet I used said he was terminal and now to hear a real SG vet find his problems and fix them... I cant say enough how good that feels. I knew my boy wasnt dying, I just didnt know what was wrong. I cant even begin to say how greatful I am to Bourbon for taking him and seeing that he is properly cared for and loved while Im gone. Nikki also, shes giving him everthing he needs. I was thrilled to hear when Bourbon said he was drinking that Sunny D like crazy. Im going to attach a pic of Sacer hanging out of his pouch not feeling well a few hours before Bourbon got to my house. You can see he doesnt feel well then. I cant wait to see the videos Bourbon took after his vet visit!!

Attached picture Sacerpouch.jpg
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/27/10 11:53 AM

Awe, poor baby, the photo shows he is not feeling well. It hurts when our babies hurt. But at least you can feel positive from now on forward. thumb

I am also anxious for the video!
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/27/10 11:58 AM

I'm so glad he's been properly diagnosed and will get better!!! Looking forward to more positive updates!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/27/10 02:20 PM

Bourbon is on the phone with me and told me how to link the videos of Sacer. So here they are.
Sacer Video 1

Sacer Video 2

Sacer Video 3
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/27/10 02:49 PM

Thank you so much for the videos! What a sweet boy! On the mend...I'm SO happy to hear this, Kim!!
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/27/10 03:54 PM

What a precious boy Sacer is. Thank you for sharing the videos. Still sending prayers for a speedy recovery.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/28/10 06:21 PM

Im home now, got in at 330am last night. Im trying to get all my stuff settled and figured Id add a couple more videos of Sacer that Bourbon took for me. The last video is wonderful. I can see the progress from the sensitivity in his tail. He still wont eat the BML on his own yet but thats ok. He'll get there. Its weird to not have him here. I keep looking in his cage and forgetting he's not in it.

Sacer video 4

Sacer video 5

Sacer video 6
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/28/10 07:23 PM

Oh my! What a sweet boy! It's amazing to see the difference in him from the first video to the last one. Just amazing!

Keep up the good work, Sacer!!!
Posted By: chattrbabe

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 12:08 AM

Guess what!?!?!!? SACER WAS JUST CAUGHT EATING ON HIS OWN!!!!!!
dancedancedancedancedancedancedancedancedancedancedancedancedancedance


Go Sacer!!!!! mlove
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 12:55 AM

I almost cried when I heard that! Its been a month long battle to keep him fed, every day and night. I cant believe he is doing it on his own again. Its a miracle. Thats the best birthday gift I could have tomorrow. Knowing hes starting to eat on his own again because he feels good.
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 01:26 AM

OMGoodness!!! What a miracle! Kim, I can only imagine your joy!!!
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 03:44 AM

I'm so happy for you. laugh Go Sacer
Posted By: the gliders angel

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 05:14 AM

bourbon is truly gifted with gliders, ive learned alot from her amazing knowledge
Posted By: SariYappa

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 05:40 AM

clap Go Sacer!

Happy Birthday Kim! dance
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 05:47 AM

Aww thanks for the bday wishes. Im so glad my boy is eating. That is my best birthday gift.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 01:30 PM

So Glad he is getting better, Bourbon is the best glider whisperer!

She is an awesome person, glad she was able to help you and your little one. smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 03:01 PM

This is the latest update. Here is a video of him eating BML. Its not a lot that he's eating but for the 4 days he's been with Bourbon, this is major progress. Keep in mind, he wasnt eating at all. This makes me very happy to see.

Sacer video 7 - eating

Posted By: hpyhwn2003

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 03:42 PM

Happy Birthday Kim. So glad to hear your boy is doing better. Always trust your instinct, you knew your boy wasn't ready to go and you did everything in your power to give him a chance, inluding geting help and letting him go to smeone who could take care of him until he could get back to you, I know that couldn't have been easy. Way to go Kim! And thank you Bourbon for being who you are! Praying for a speedy recovery for Sacer.
Posted By: glidermom71

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 03:53 PM

Way to go Sacer!! I hope he gets better soon. Sending prayers and hugs to Bourbon, you and Sacer.
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 05:25 PM

Happy Birthday Kim, and Sacer, I am so proud of you. hug2
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Sacer has cavities - 10/29/10 06:38 PM

Woohoo! That is the best video I've seen for a long time!!! I literally pumped my fist in the air and shouted "YES!", when I saw it! Girl, that's the best birthday gift ever. Happy Birthday!!!
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 11/04/10 10:25 AM

Any updates on Sacer?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Sacer has cavities - 11/05/10 12:56 AM

I talked to Bourbon a couple days ago and she said Sacer is eating about half of what a sugar glider should eat of BML. Its not huge progress in general but for Sacer, its major. He wasnt eating at all so for him to be able to eat half of what he should is amazing. She sent me a video of his tail. Its not sensitive anymore so that is a good sign. He is still dragging his foot tho. I dont know whats up with that foot but there arent any broken bones. She said it will be a few more days before he goes back to the vet to check up on how his infection(s?) are going. He's drinking just fine out of his water bottle and he is not dehydrated. She isnt going to put him in a big cage until she is sure he wont fall with that foot thing going on so hes still in his little cage. She may have said more but Im so tired I cant remember if she did.
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Sacer has cavities - 11/05/10 01:10 AM

It sounds like things are progressing nicely, Kim - I'm so glad to hear that he's eating and isn't dehydrated! Yayy!

You've been so strong through all of this! hug2
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Sacer has cavities - 11/05/10 05:30 AM

Thank you for the update Kim. We will continue to pray for Sacer. Sounds like Sacer is progressing nicely. hug2
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