GliderCENTRAL

ANOTHER vet appointment...

Posted By: WintersSong

ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 08:05 AM

Yeah...
If you saw my post about cold paws, you know that my gliders went to the vet on the 14th, at 3pm to see what the bubbly sound was. Everything was on the up and up then.

Well, this just shows you what a matter of HOURS can do.. and how one minute a glider might look a-ok, and the next, not so much...

Got 'em home, put 'em in their cage, they curled up in the pouch for a nap. My male was acting off, but I figured okay, he's stressed. So around..11..11:30-ish.. I went to check the gliders. Girls hopping all over, boys curled up, and appeared to be having trouble walking. I watched him a little more closely, and...uh oh, he's dragging his left hind leg. I mean, he'll sort of limp on it occasionally, but it's obvious that there is a problem.

So, I call up the vet. She tells me try to get some food in him, separate him into a smaller cage, away from his buddy. Her concern was that his buddy (who is smaller than him) might be stopping him from eating. She mentioned that it was likely that he got caught on something, and advised me to try hand feeding him and get him in first thing in the AM. She was too far away at the moment to come in.

Well, me being me...I was a wreck. I called the local e-vet in tears. So much so that the lady over the phone could hardly understand me. I think that this worked to my benefit though, as the vet there (who mainly worked on cats & dogs) decided that he would help me. He did research while I was on the way, and consulted with one of the vets off of the list on here via telephone (which, slips my mind).

When I got there, he noted that my boy weighed 60 grams, which is 2 grams up from when he was weighed on the 1st. And that he is very active (in the sense that he did a bit of a race around the room trying to get away from the vet -- he's only hand tame when he wants to be) and alert.

On my paper from him he wrote: "mild paresis of left pelvic limb with a moderately flaccid left hind paw. Able to advance the left hind leg but not as readily as the right hind and he is not able to grasp with the left hind paw. No palpable spinal alignment deviation is detected."

He suspects that it might be either
1. a possible spinal injury on one side
2. sprained left hind leg without spinal injury
or
3. the beginning stages of HLP, despite what he agreed was a very balanced diet (BML -- but, it is touch to know which glider is eating what exactly)

He gave him various meds that the vet that he consulted with approved of doing.

Recommended giving small amounts of fruit baby foods, yogurt, chicken baby food and honey over the next few hours until he's eating.. I've given him some honey, which he had a little of. He doesn't seem too interested in eating other things at the moment.

And, of course, to call my exotic vet in the morning. I am planning to just take him in.. My exotic vet has already given me permission to drop him off first thing in the morning -- though I probably won't get him back until 5 or 6pm upset

I'm keeping close watch on him, but he's not really doing much. He's alert though -- crabs anytime I make a sound.


A few questions..
What else do you think this could be???? Are his guesses appropriate??? And if it IS the beginnings of HLP, can he be saved??? If it's a spinal injury, can he be healed???

And, praying that he makes a full recovery, how long can he be away from his mate but still be put right back in the cage? Like, I say I have to keep him out of the cage with her for a week.. would I be able to put him right back in after or would I need to do the intro period?


ETA: Went to check him.. He is awake. When he crawls on the ceiling of the cage, he is letting his left hind leg just sort of.... hang loose. He only holds on with his other 3 paws. He did take a big long drink of water though, on his own. And, he ate a bit of a plain yogurt drop. I know, plain yogurt drops were not on the vets list of things to feed, but my exotic vet recommended just trying to get him to eat SOMETHING to keep his blood sugar up. I put the plain yogurt drop on a hanging toy, he climbed up and got it, eating most.

I have the BML in there, so hopefully he will start to eat that soon.
Posted By: Feather

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 12:16 PM

Poor baby I will keep him in my prayers. I am glad that the vet you saw did some homework before you got there.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 12:30 PM

Yes, I was too. They told me to wait a few moments for him to call me back before bringing him in, just so he could try and familiarize himself to see if he could handle the case. He called back within 10 minutes and seemed very knowledgeable, and he's definitely willing to learn. He gave me the option of waiting to see Dr. Lucas tomorrow or getting him in for an e-visit that night.

..I must've sounded like a 2 year old on the phone. I just mumbled, "please help him? Please?" To which, he of course said yes. I was thrilled -- most e-vets around here won't even try.
Posted By: pbear3s

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 12:47 PM

Glad he did research. I'll keep you and your little guy in my thoughts and prayers. hug2
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 01:42 PM

I would say these possible diagnosis are good.

I have extensive experience with fractures/injuries to the legs, to the spine (resulting in paralysis) and with HLP.

When you go to your vet, make SURE you get x-rays. You will not be able to make an accurate diagnosis without x-rays. If the x-rays are clear, make SURE you get fecals re-tested and a UA. Sudden onset HLP usually affects BOTH legs, so it is most likely that you are looking at an injury. But, if not, sudden onset HLP is usually the result of a bacterial or parasitic infection.

The care you give after the vet visit will be very crucial. I'm happy to lend some advice from my experiences.

I'm sending you a PM with a link to some more information.

Please call me to discuss this further. My number is in my signature. My cell number will be in the PM.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 02:45 PM

Wow! What cruddy luck!!
It's weird that you were worried about the bubbling in the girl that turned out to be nothing and then immeadiatly get socked with a foot problem in the boy which is obviously SOMEthing. shakehead
I don't know much about much but I would agree with Val that it seems more like an injury and not HLP. I am always worried when I watch my girls flinging themselves around the cage that one of them is going to hurt a foot or hand. They jump with such force on those cage bars and their feet are sooo tiny, all they have to do is slip a little....
Does the foot or leg look puffy??
I would get the x-rays done but just hope that it is a bruised foot or small sprain.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 04:06 PM

The injury is a very, very bad fracture. As in, extremely. And in a bad spot. Vet says it's going to be veryyyy hard to treat, and that treating fractures like this rarely work. frown
Posted By: Mel2mdl

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 05:35 PM

Can they amputate? Would that be more successful?
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 05:44 PM

My thoughts exactly.
Posted By: KattyM

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 06:06 PM

Wow, you've found a gem of a vet who was willing to learn and consult with other vets to assist in your time of need. It's heartwarming to see that dedication is still out there. heart

The key is to of course get to the cause of the problem, but it does seem like there may be options to keep your little boy alive and healthy. If it turns out to be the best option, there are gliders who have amputated hands, feet, arms, legs, and it's amazing how they adapt. hug2

In addition to keeping him in a smaller age, you should maybe pad the bottom of it with fleece so that if he should lose his grip, he'll have a softer landing. If you keep the cages close together, I don't think you'll need to worry about going through the introductions again. You can still swap pouches periodically as well, so they get an even stronger whiff of one another's scents. Or, depending on the sizes of your cages, perhaps you can put one cage inside the other. If he has open wounds, you don't want to do this because you don't want his cage mate to groom the area.

The BML does have plenty of calcium in it. You'll be able to see how much he does eat on his own being in his own cage. You can also try hand feeding him the BML as a licky treat.

I don't know anything about spinal injuries, but if he is going to the bathroom fine, perhaps this is not the cause? Or maybe it's not as bad as it could be? dunno It sounds like your glider-knowledgeable vet is good, but don't forget there are other vets who will do phone consults with your vet, and collectively, they may be able to brainstorm something wonderful.

Sending prayers your way. hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 06:19 PM

Oh no. I'm sorry to hear about your little man. I say that if fixing the broken leg will be to risky and/or stressful for your little guy, I would go with amputation. I have a friend you has a glider with an arm removed up to the shoulder blade and he does just fine. And your little guy has his cagemate so no worries about grooming with him missing one of his combed back feet. I hope your glider heals up well! Sending many prayer to you and your glider boy. hug2
Posted By: Dancing

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 07:27 PM

When my little girl Spryte broke her leg, I took her to Dr. Teresa Bradley. Xrays were done and we discussed what to do. My first thought was it was going to have to be amputated (back leg) but Dr. Bradley suggested if I was willing to let her try to pin the leg first. She said that if she amputates it first and something goes wrong, there wouldn't be much more she could do but if she pinned it and it didn't work, we still had the option to amputate. We decided on pinning it. And it was successful. Spryte got to keep her let and truthfully, within 24 hours I had a hard time keeping that girl still. 48 hours after she was all over her cage like nothing had happened.

Pinning the leg IS possible though has not been done but a few times.

Dr. Bradley will consult with your vet also.

Just explore all options before making a decision.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 10:28 PM

Due to the location of the fracture -- strongest part of his body, says the vet, she doesn't think amputating it would do any good. She thinks it would be putting him through more than he can take.
Posted By: pbear3s

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 10:33 PM

Oh no I'm so sorry to hear this. hug2
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/15/09 10:51 PM

PLEASE call me. I have worked with gliders with multiple severe fractures in multiple legs at one time. The leg CAN be spared and regain functional use. PLEASE give me a call.... I just don't have time to write it all out for you.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/16/09 12:53 AM

Val, I'll try to give you a call tonight. I'll PM you my number if I am unable to. I'm going to try and get him settled in as he just got back.

He's in an e-collar, which the vet is suggesting to leave on until he goes for a follow up appointment, unless he manages to wiggle his way out (in which case, I'm supposed to call her). She splinted the leg. He's not a happy little guy by any means.... She did manage to get some foods into him though, and has given him various medications for the pain, and to fight against possible infection. She did say that it went better than she thought, and that he takes his meds well. I will be giving him meds 2 times a day for at least a week.

Unless things get worse, he is into the vet again on the 22nd at 9am.

The vets main concern is that he will self-mutilate, tear the bandage off, or that the bone will go through the skin. She is still really stressing that she has not seen this work often, but today went better than she had expected (we're nowhere near out of the woods yet though).

If all goes well, she is expecting to see at least some signs of healing at the next visit, though I guess it could take at least 2 weeks to see signs of healing.


She is wanting him to be separated from my other glider in a small cat carrier, as this will limit his ability to climb. I have put in a toy ball that he likes to push around (vet approved it -- thank you chattrbabe for sending the ball. He really does love it), a lot of little fleece blankies, and a pouch laying on the floor of the carrier (vet approved). She says that, if it heals, she is expecting 2 to 4 weeks (depending on the healing) before he can be placed back with the other one, which brings up concerns for both she and I about how the gliders will react to each other when placed back together.

I am still quite terrified that nothing will work.. but I guess one step at a time.
Posted By: ozzi

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/16/09 01:01 AM

What about supervised supervision with another glider. I had to do that for over a year with my guys. I would put them both in my shirt as many hours in the day as I could when they would at least sleep together and I could feel every move they made.
Also, you have to BREATH about this. Animals can sense stress and you do not want to stress him out anymore that he might be already. Just love on the boy, radiate your love and peace towards him angel
I hope he heals up nicely and you can put this behind you. Believe me I know, things happen with our little ones....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/16/09 01:28 AM

I am so sorry this is happening to you guys!!
I will be wishing and hoping and praying every day for your little guy!!
Posted By: KattyM

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/16/09 01:52 AM

Even in his own little cage, he can still be right next to the other cage and you can still swap pouches, yes? That will help as they can still smell and hear and see one another.

I presume your cat carrier also has 1/2" bar spacing or openings? If not, you'll need a different arrangement.

Sending prayers your way for his speedy recovery. hug2
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: ANOTHER vet appointment... - 12/16/09 01:57 AM

Katty, the spacing on the front of it is a little more than an inch, but it has cross bars. I do not think he will be able to get loose with the cross bars, and his e-collar on.

ETA: I have spoken with Val and have received some good advice. I have plans of remaining in contact with her, as well as with my vet.
Posted By: WintersSong

How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 09:37 AM

eat?? And when I can't really hold him, due to his injury??? I am afraid to handle him with his leg being fractured.

I was told to try Hawaiian Delight or yogurt, but he won't eat a thing --- not even his favorite treat -- honey.

I NEED to get meds into him, of course, but how in the world am I supposed to do this? I have seen Suz' page on how to do this, but like I said, holding him is tough.

If you have any tips, please share.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 09:52 AM

Okay, since 13 minutes ago, I got some of the baby food turkey out and put his pain meds in that. He ate about half of it... will try more in a few moments. I am going to pick up some varieties of baby food today. Any recommendations that gliders usually love??
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 10:07 AM

I am sorry you are having such problems getting the meds into him. any of the fruit baby food should be good. mine will eat almost anything I give them so I cant help there. I sent ya a PM earlier. At this point I would be willing to try almost anything to get the meds into him. Try the natural maple syrup if he wont take honey, or even agave nectar, you might also try those naked juices, they are typically pretty yummy. sometimes something different MAY spark an interest. I know corn is a no no because of the horible ratio but if he REALLY likes corn I would take a piece of corn, use a toothpick and scoop out some of the inside kernal, put the meds into the piece of corn and see if you can get him to take it that way. worth a try and one piece of corn wont hurt him. at this point like I said I would feed them almost anything.

Did I send ya a cookie sample? if I did try soaking the meds into one of those if he likes it, if didnt...PM me and I will send ya one asap to try.

still praying for you...
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 10:15 AM

I will send you a PM, Jill.

Have you (or anyone else) have any ideas on how to clean him up? Would just an unscented babywipe work? He decided to take a roll in his BML and is covered in it. He's an e-collar, and..flexible as it is, he just can't clean himself.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 11:04 AM

Another question: If I can get him to find a food that he'll eat at any time, is it acceptable to put all three medications in at once?

Val, should you read this, I'll be sending you a PM on this, but I won't be at home today. I will be leaving my healthy glider in my mothers care, and taking little boy with me. I am going to buy some Hawaiin delight as you suggested last night, and see how that goes.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 12:10 PM

I've been giving Spaz meds for the past week and he won't take it in any food. He smells it in the food and then won't touch it.

I've been doing the technique as listed on Suz's page where really the only real pressure put on him is on the sides of his head. He has an injury on his shoulder as well as the mutilation after the neuter.

My husband and I give him the medicine and we got it down to only having to hold him for about 5 seconds.

I also use the no water needed soap for sensitive skin. I want to say it's Lubriderm but I'm not real sure. This cleans him up fairly well when he takes spills through his food. He can't reach the area, so I'm not too worried about him ingesting any.

Mixing the meds I wouldn't think is a problem if you can give it to him all at the same time allbeit in separate syringes. If it can be mixed in his belly why not out?

Good luck. I understand the frustration with giving meds. We tried so many different things without look.

Take Care,
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 12:42 PM

I would try to hold him when you aren't giving meds to him so you can get used to holding him in that position. If his leg is fractured I imagine he isn't using that leg to struggle, so you don't need to touch it at all it's just a matter of figuring out how to keep a large human hand around a little glider for a few moments. I know that sounds so easy to say but is different in practice!

For washing him up I'd use a warm damp cloth - not soaked, but just damp enough to get the icky off him. Then keep him in a dry pouch to warm up and make sure he doesn't get chilled.

Keep your head up you are doing a fantastic job in a difficult situation!
Posted By: MissSarah

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 12:54 PM

I get meds in my little Dexter by mixing it with a little bite of banana flavored pudding. He hasn't turned it down yet.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 01:52 PM

Tried the Hawaiin Delight baby food -- no luck. I picked up a bunch of other baby foods so I will try those later. Hopefully one will work. He just won't eat a thing.


My worry is that he'll continue to not eat, and to spit out everything he's forcefed. Obviously without eating, his leg can't heal (among many other things.)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 02:37 PM

How about scrambled eggs??
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 03:00 PM

I have heard of people injecting meds into mealworms also

as for washing, I agree with using a warm barely damp washcloth, and keep him in a pouch for warmth
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/16/09 05:54 PM

You could always return to your vet and ask for a CONVENIA injection (slow release antibiotic that lasts 3 weeks) and an injection of metacam. Then you do not have to give him meds by mouth.

The calcium can be mixed with any food he will eat. The other two can be taken care of with an injection and save you this worry.

For many gliders, the stress of being in an e-collar will cause them to refuse food for a day or two. You could try letting him out of the collar for meal times and putting him back in it after he has eaten. You have to supervise this very closely. If he continues to refuse food, try any and every food you can think of. At this point, it does not matter if it is good for him or not, allow him to have junk food. Here are a few suggestions to get you thinking. The list you can try is endless:

boiled chicken
omelet
scrambled eggs
vanilla ice cream
vanilla pudding
jello
Odwalla, Naked or Knudsen fruit smoothie/juice
spaghetti (sauce and all)
shrimp
hamburger
cheese
mashed potatoes
baked or mashed sweet potatoes
french fries
piece of walnut
Noodles from Chicken noodle soup
and so on.....

Of course, this is not to be his regular diet, but it might stimulate his appetite again. Decreasing his stress level might also stimulate his appetite.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 01:56 AM

Val, I am going to try each of the foods mentioned. Scrambled eggs and vanilla pudding so far have been unsuccessful.

I had my boyfriend try to get the meds in him, while I held him, with only his upper body sticking out of his pouch, and with a fleece blanket wrapped around. He wasn't a happy guy..and he did fight, and turn his head, regardless. We got some of it in him, but I do not think it all got in. I will call the vet first thing again tomorrow and let her know that we are having difficulties with him.


Boyfriend has been helping me try to feed him, and give him things to drink. Everything's been turned down. On occasion, he'll lick a dot of BML or turkey baby food, but he will not eat anything else. I've tried offering about 7 different kinds of baby foods today, as well as 3 different kinds of yogurt (and scrambled eggs, and pudding). No luck. He refuses his water bottle, and when I give him some in a syringe, he spits it right out.


It is very frustrating, but I am trying to stay positive about it. It just seems that I am doing everything that should be done but none of it is working.
Posted By: KattyM

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 02:12 AM

Did he have any favorite foods or treats in the past, before he started on his hunger strike? You can try mashing those up (like mealies or wax worms), and offering as a licky treat as well. Have you tried Ensure (not the chocolate flavored)? If he's losing too much weight, you might consider that. Be sure to follow with plenty of water (if he'll drink it). And if he is at all constipated, don't offer it.

Have you tried feeding any of these foods through a needless syringe? I got almost all of Charlie's dinner in her this way, when she was in an e-collar. Maybe if he gets used to taking his food this way, you can sneak in a bit of his meds with the food later.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 02:53 AM

I've tried the needless syringe -- he spits out the food.

I can get him to lick a dot of BML (tiny, tiny dot..), and occasionally a dot of turkey baby food (again, very tiny), but he won't eat it all. His favorite treat before was honey, and yoggies. He won't take either of those now.

Water is not going well -- pedialyte and gaterade, too. He won't take any of it. I tried offering a bit of apple to him, so that he could get water.. no luck. I
Posted By: LSardou

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 03:18 AM

I'm sorry that your little one is being so difficult!

Sometimes it's best to give them a little time to relax. It sounds like he's feeling pretty stressed right now, which will cause him to resist anything that you're trying.

Make sure that he is at least getting liquids, if he's refusing, you should get him in for a sub-q to prevent dehydration.

Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 04:50 AM

My vet refers to him as one of the most difficult gliders that she has ever seen (and she works with gliders regularly!)


A problem has arised. He is overgrooming his tail. He is in an e-collar, but even with that, he is still able to get to the tip of his tail. As such, the tip of his tail has become very thin and mangy. I've noticed him biting it, as well. I have left a message on my vets emergency line. Should be hearing from her within 5 minutes.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 05:37 AM

Originally Posted By: WintersSong
My vet refers to him as one of the most difficult gliders that she has ever seen (and she works with gliders regularly!)


A problem has arised. He is overgrooming his tail. He is in an e-collar, but even with that, he is still able to get to the tip of his tail. As such, the tip of his tail has become very thin and mangy. I've noticed him biting it, as well. I have left a message on my vets emergency line. Should be hearing from her within 5 minutes.
You'll need to get a thick straw (like McDonald's straws, how they're bigger, or a Burger King shake straw) and put over his tail. Someone more experienced can tell you exactly how to do this, but I'm pretty sure it's just so they can't bend their tail. thumb
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 06:13 AM

Amanda -- I've sent the bf out to get one of those straws. For the time being, he's in a bonding pouch on my lap. The e-vet returned my call and recommended doing the same thing that you suggested. There is no wound, and so she does not think it is something that he needs to be rushed in for. But, he will be there to greet her again first thing in the morning.

Val -- When he goes in again tomorrow morning, I will ask her about the injection meds and sub-q fluids. Thank you for all of your words last night -- I have taken the majority of your advice (or am trying to -- save for the splint, which I am leaving be).

To everyone else -- thank you for your comments thus far. I am trying not to think negatively about this. I am hopeful that he will recover.

I keep saying -- we made it through today. One day down...
The healing time, should be 4 to 8 weeks from what I have heard. The vet says we might get lucky and see signs of healing within 2 weeks, and if he does recover, it is her expectations to see him back with his cagemate within a month weeks. She is happy that he has left his e-collar on, and says that in his case, this will be extremely important in his recovery.



The little man is the one on top. This was just a few days before his injury.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 07:20 AM

Bf informed me a little while that "maybe" he's eating. He says that earlier, he went to check on him and found the fleece that I lined the cage with ruffed up near the bird feeder I had set in there, and the bird feeder knocked over.

Well, I tied the feeder on there with fleece to ensure that it stays. I left him alone for about 20 minutes. When I returned, he was curled up in some scraps of fleece that I put in there.. there were bits of BML on one of the toys that I put in there, and on the floor of his hospital cage.

Now, maybe he's just playing in it... but, I am hoping he is sneaking a bit in the rare moments that he is left by himself.
Posted By: the gliders angel

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 07:32 AM

when you gave the foods with the meds in it did you use your finger to feed it or not i dip my finger in the food with the meds in it and let him lick it off my finger. i just got thru giving meds for a uti and at first my glider did nt touch anything because of the bitterness of the med then i found she loved hawaiin delight so i took a dime size on a plate put the med in it mixed it in and she couldnt wait to lap it up, you have to try maybe a few different baby foods one she might just surprise you
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 07:47 AM

I've attempted to use a spoon when I mix the meds with food. I will try just putting it on a plate, but as he rolled through the food the last time I put it on the plate I am apprehensive of doing this.
Posted By: KattyM

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 08:03 AM

If he's eating the BML, you'll see the spit-out remains. Sometimes it will look like little crescent moon shapes, and other times like light brown spit wads. Either way, you'll know he's sucked the nutrients out before spitting it out. I hope that's what he's doing. hug2

Taking medicine is pretty horrid, for anyone, it seems. I have to give Keiko a weekly pulse dose every month, and I follow with mealies after she's taken it. Oftentimes she rejects the mealies because of the foul taste still in her mouth. But after a minute or so, she's ready for her treat. wink

I've tried mixing her meds with tasty foods, but found what works best with her is to position her just right and quickly squirt it deep in her mouth. I wrap her snug like a burrito so her movements are restricted, and hold her head so she can't burrow into the wrap or move her head around.

I like the earlier suggestion of having your vet inject the meds. And if he's not eating and getting adequate nourishment, including calcium, perhaps injections of those as well? Is that an option for your little boy? dunno
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/17/09 09:40 PM

Make sure that you are checking him regularly for dehydration. Often, gliders who are dehydrated will refuse to eat or drink. Dehydration can make them feel really terrible. If he is even the slightest bit dehydrated, have the vet sub-q him. It won't hurt him at all, and might just be the thing that pushes him past this hump.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/18/09 12:32 AM

Vet saw him briefly again today -- says he looks okay, but he's down a gram. That's a gram in 2 days. Not overly concerned about that..

She says that the swelling of his toes has decreased, and that he is not dehydrated.

I did get a small amount (little less than a teaspoon) of BML into him when we got home from the vet -- I mixed it with his pain meds.. I've discovered that when it's all mixed together (all 3 meds), he won't eat it. I will try the other meds over the course of the evening. Anyway, I had to hand feed him it. I held a spoon into the pouch, and though it made a little bit of a mess, he ate just about all but a dot.

...do gliders get any water/hydration from BML?


Vet says he's nowhere near out of the woods yet, but she did say again that him being so young will work in his favor, and could result in a quicker recovery. It's still going to be a long process, and she's stated it'll be a very difficult one, but we're doing the best that we can for him.



Also, his tail.. she says that he does not appear to be SM or overgrooming. Instead, it is just sticky from his food, making it appear as overgroomed.


ETA: Got half of the second meds into him, and a tad bit more of BML. Will keep trying every hour.
Posted By: the gliders angel

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/18/09 08:21 AM

what i do with the hawaiin delight is after i put the meds in a dime size amount i either let her lick it off the plate or use my finger and let her lick it off that. but make sure you get all the meds from the plate in her. even if it takes time, i also use ben-bac to restore the bacteria that the meds take out of her system or yogurt is good too.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/18/09 12:17 PM

Morning update: Last night, I was able to get some more BML & his 3rd med into him before bed. This morning, I got 2 small baby spoon *half* full of baby yogurt, and a half baby spoon full of BML into him. smile Not in the clear yet, but eating something is better than not, even though he does need to be hand fed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/18/09 12:28 PM

That sounds really good Winter!!! Excellent news!!!
Posted By: KattyM

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/18/09 09:11 PM

Thanks for the update.

They do get a bit of hydration from the BML (it's got the apple juice and other liquidy stuff in it). And if he'll eat any of the fruits, he'll get some more from that. I think mine are used to me holding the water bottle for them in the morning after I weigh them and let them go to the bathroom, because now they seem a bit spoiled that way. I know they drink in the cage, but some of them drink a lot if I hold their bottle. Even though he doesn't need to be hand fed, he may be enjoying the special attention and pampering now (just as we would if we were feeling poorly).

You're doing a great job, and it is encouraging that your vet's report has some positive points in it. heart
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/19/09 12:39 AM

I've been blending up his tablespoon of fruits that go with the BML each night -- he's not too interested in eating that.

From what I have heard though, what is important is just to get him eating something. He's eating his BML mix.. at least some -- probably a teaspoon a night. From the diet page, it seems that 1/3 of a tablespoon is adequate for a glider. So at 1 teaspoon, he's getting about that I think. On occasion, he'll eat a tiny dot of applesauce, but he's more into the BML or yogurt at the moment.

I am not going to worry about getting him to eat exactly as the diet plan states. I will try and get the fruits and veggies in him once he is able/willing to eat on his own. (I will of course always offer it, but I will not try to force them, as I am the BML).

He's getting food in him, which is more than he was doing before.
Posted By: finnessa

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/20/09 04:56 AM

I didn't see any updates...

Winter how is your baby doing tonight? Hope he is improving!! hug2
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/20/09 08:50 AM

He still will not eat on his own, at least as far as I can tell. I am unsure of if he's drinking on his own as well, since I have not seen him do so.

I can typically get him to eat a small amount over the course of the day. Occasionally if I hold the water bottle over him, he'll take a drink. It's never a lot, but he seems to get at least some of it into him each day... he has no interest in pedialyte or g2.

My vet has been calling me daily, checking in.. which is comforting. We go back to see her on Tuesday morning so that she can see how he's going. I am hoping that he gained back the gram that he lost last week, or at the very least hasn't lost any more.

I am hoping that she says everything looks great, and that it'll only be another week or two before I can put him back with his friend. It's very heartbreaking to see him in the hospital cage. It's frustrating that he can't climb, or really even play... I did put floor toys in there, but as far as I can tell, he has no interest in them. I know the whole point is for him to rest, but it feels so cruel to keep him in such a tiny cage.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/20/09 01:54 PM

I've been following this and just wanted say that I'm impressed with how well you are doing with your little fella.
I'm sure all of this is taking a toll on everyone, and do hope that things start to improve for him soon.

Have you tried putting them together for a little supervised play time in the evening?
You could line your tub with some thick pieces of fleece, and put them in the tub with him along with something for them to cuddle in together.

Also, you could try and put the other gliders food dish in there with them and maybe if he sees them eating, he might feel like joining them too.

Also, have you tried using a large bonding pouch to use for carrying him and his friends around with you during the day? As long as you have him on you, you could take the ecollar off, and put them together for a few hours. While he's in there with them, offering everyone some treats might also encourage him to eat too.

I feel that he is depressed and lonely, so maybe by trying some other tactics to bring him together with his family will encourage him more.

My prayers are with him. hug2
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/20/09 08:42 PM

LSardou, thank you for your kind words. It's a bit of a shock dealing with it.. I wasn't ever expecting to have an emergency of this sort! Especially not within 2 months of getting them! But, now that it's happened the best that can be done is to do the best that I can for him.

I caught him drinking a little bit this morning, and it appears that the level of his food went down a tiny bit. I am thinking that he must be drinking when I am not right there as well since I caught him today. Hand feeding has gone successfully today, in terms that about 80% of the time he'll at least lick the spoon or syringe. And, speaking of syringes.. I've tricked him into getting his meds today by dipping the syringe into some peach flavored baby yogurt.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/22/09 03:41 PM

Update from today:
Took him to the vet to get things checked out. We've opted to leave the splint on, as he is doing great with it. She didn't do x-rays (waiting another few weeks for that) but she says she's very impressed and surprised with how he's doing. She made up a new e-collar for him.. a festive one. It's green with a picture of a red Christmas tree on it. And she cleaned him up..

He's battling the e-collar of course, but it's a must-have for him as anytime it's off he starts to go right for the area. Right now, he seems to have calmed down and is settled in his pouch.

She is expecting that everything will be able to come off by the 4th (or at the latest, the week after) IF things continue to go well.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/22/09 03:48 PM

Wow, your vet sounds awesome!
I'm so glad he seems to be doing alright. I think a festive e-collar would be cute if they didn't look so sad and pathetic wearing one!
Still praying for you guys!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/22/09 07:02 PM

blush I'm glad everything is exceeding your vet's expectations! That's good news!
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't - 12/23/09 06:17 AM

Me too! She's started to mention the idea of taking it off, so I get the idea that she's confident about his ability to heal now.

I think he might have to leave everything on until the 13th, as she called earlier to mention that she'll check him on the 4th and see where he's at, but she's going out of town until the 12th and doesn't want to take anything off unless things appear to have healed completely by then... just because she'll be unable to treat him until after the 12th. BUT, another week or so in everything is better than hearing that his chances are terrible.
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