GliderCENTRAL

White Pupils

Posted By: Nataly

White Pupils - 05/23/06 07:33 PM

Hi. We've recently bought a glider, whom we decided to call Aye-Aye (yeah, right after this wonderful animal - http://info.bio.sunysb.edu/rano.biodiv/Mammals/Daubentonia-madagascariensis/)
The fact is, he has those white spots in his eyes, or, to be more precise, opal-white pupils, which react to light all right, though. Also, he seems to see quite all right, as he moved just fine around his new cage.
Otherwise, the boy is quite healthy and well-natured. The vet who examined him is sure that the boy's sight is all right, but he cannot account for the colour of his pupils.
There were, all in all, four of the babies - two boys and two girls, all with the same problem. As for the girls, their pupils turned black already; the other boy has white pupils, as well as ours, and his sight is OK, too.
I searched through the Net, but did not find any such case. Has anyone by any chance met with such a problem? Probably, I should choose some special diet for our boy? He is quite young as yet, about 5 months only. We hope he will be all right, in any case; yet, I'd feel better if his pupils become the usual colour, as it was with his sisters...

Hope for an answer,
Nataly
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: White Pupils - 05/24/06 01:32 AM

Are you sure they are Sugar Gliders? Can you post some pictures? The link you have up doesn't work.

I've never seen or heard of a sugar glider having white pupils that react to light. They are nocturnal. I can't imagine what that is. Cataracts are a film but then again?

You said their were 4 of them like this, do you mean they born all at the SAME time?
Posted By: Nataly

Re: White Pupils - 05/24/06 04:21 AM

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Are you sure they are Sugar Gliders? Can you post some pictures? The link you have up doesn't work.

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It's OK; I was just trying to explain why we called him so. At first glance, I think, he looks as disturbing (and, perhaps, a bit frightening even) as the aye-aye lemur <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, our boy, his brother and sisters were all from the same litter. I do not have pictures of him as yet, but I will try to make some ASAP. The problem is, he is very energetic, he jumps and runs all the time, so it is hard to take pictures, and I'm afraid they won't be very good. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I've never seen or heard of a sugar glider having white pupils that react to light. They are nocturnal. I can't imagine what that is. Cataracts are a film but then again?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Neither have I; but they are sugar gliders, for sure - we already had three gliders when we bought this boy. To tell the truth, I've never heard of ANY animal having white pupils.
No, it does not look as a cataract at all; besides, as I found out, his eye-lenses are totally transparent. And his behaviour is that of a healthy young glider in every respect...
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: KattyM

Re: White Pupils - 05/24/06 06:41 AM

Welcome to GliderCENTRAL! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> I'm afraid I can't help, either. I've not heard of this condition. However, I would try and protect his eyes from bright lights, as it may hurt him more than a normal glider.

What diet do you have them on? If you haven't already, be sure to check out our diet page.

Hopefully someone will be along who has some experience with this condition.
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: White Pupils - 05/24/06 11:00 AM

[:"green"]What you are describing sounds like it's possibly either corneal scarring (which would be due to some type of injury previously) or a fatty deposit on the cornea (which can be caused by excessively fatty foods, such as nuts). In either case, the result is partial or complete blindness in the glider. For information on how to accomodate for a blind glider, you can read: Caring for Blind Gliders. I strongly recommend a visit to the vet's office so they can determine the actual cause of the white spots and can help you with a possible treatment plan. Please let us know what the vet says because that will help us all learn from this experience...
I have attached a picture of my Pika, who has a corneal scar on her right eye and a cataract on her left eye. At the time this picture was taken, she had an eye infection as well, so ignore the swelling and mucus...

Attached picture 575632-Pika'sEyeInfections11'22'05004rdc.JPG
Posted By: Dancing

Re: White Pupils - 05/24/06 04:17 PM

4 joeys in the same litter? Quads are extremely rare especially where they all survive. Even surviving triplets are very rare. I wonder if being a quad has something to do with it?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/24/06 05:35 PM

I had thought gliders ony had two teets, man shows what I know.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/24/06 11:12 PM

But you're right Yava. Maybe you should check Nataly if they really are gliders, and not flyers, 'cause four at the same time... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

But see, I'm not an expert at all, so I hope someone more experienced will be coming along soon.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 12:27 AM

If they are all from the same litter and there are FOUR of them, I seriously doubt they are sugar gliders. That alone is VERY VERY rare. I'd love to see even a blurry picture though! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Even flyers have black eyes as they are nocturnal too. (squirrels)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 07:07 AM

This is a picture of my blind girl Adia with white eyes. Is this similar to what yours looks like?
I don't know the cause for sure... but my guess is the poor diet her mother was on is what led to Adia's eyes being like they are. I found out from the person I got her from that it was not one of the "proven" diets and was definitely what I would consider questionable nutrition. And yes, Adia is fully blind but she's also learned to compensate very well and gets around just fine without any problems.

But I also have to agree with everyone else that it's a little strange that there were 4 babies in a litter, and wonder whether you've actually got a flying squirrel instead of a glider? Gliders normally only have one or two joeys per litter. 3 at a time is extremely rare and 4 is almost unheard of.

Attached picture 576008-Webblindgirl2.jpg
Posted By: KattyM

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 07:44 AM

Very interesting thread! Perhaps if there were four gliders (which is possible, though rare), they all have the white pupils and are or will be blind because of poor nutrition. After all, they're all competing for the same food, and because it's rare, perhaps the mother didn't have enough extra protein and calcium in her diet to produce enough milk. Or high-quality milk. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

I wonder if there is a special joey diet that could help, since they're not blind now.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 12:13 PM

Cut and paste the link, but take off the last end bracket. Then it will work. Aye-Aye is interesting looking - a primate.

The post said white pupil, and not eye. If accurate, that would imply a cataract with lens opacity and not a corneal issue. One picture is apt to clear that right up.
Posted By: Nataly

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 07:39 PM

Thank you very much for your care and attention <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry I gave misleading information <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I've got in touch with the breeder, and she told me there were two litters, not one, each one having one boy and one girl with the same problem.
She assured me there was no inbreeding, yet the mothers were sisters and the fathers were brothers, so there might be some genetic problem, perhaps?
I'll try to get in tought with those who bought the other three gliders from those litters and find out what is the situation with the babies. If possible, I will also try to get the pictures of the other three little gliders.

I attach two pictures of Aye-Aye; unfortunately, both were taken in a dark room, so, as for now, it is impossible to demonstrate how the size of his pupils change. Besides, as you will see, he is very young, so it is very hard to take pictures: he is running and jumping all the time <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> A few days ago he managed to escape from the cage while I was cleaning it, and it took us much effort to catch him. It was perfectly clear he saw quite well where he was going and managed to escape us successfully for some ten minutes.
Aye1
Aye2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 07:45 PM

He's cute but I never seen anything like it.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 07:58 PM

Okay, you got me. For sure he's a Sugar Glider but when I saw the pics they scared me! He's adorable just the same. I've never seen or heard of anything like that before. The Vet says he can see???? Wow, I would get another opinion about that. I am so curious as to what caused that in case it comes up again. Please find out about the other 3 glider's eyes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Nataly

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 07:58 PM

Neither did I <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> I searched through many glider-sites before coming here, and I studied the boy and his behaviour closely, that is why I'm guite sure it is neither cataract nor a fatty deposit. I'm completely at a loss.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 08:01 PM

Will he follow say a feather with his eyes? or anything? Other than the vet saying he can see, what have you noticed?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 08:01 PM

He's just unique all the same. Maybe it's an 8th wonder of the GliderCentral board. (Don't know what the first 7 are but hey) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> lol.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 08:05 PM

PM sent. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Nataly

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 08:13 PM

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Will he follow say a feather with his eyes? or anything? Other than the vet saying he can see, what have you noticed?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Yes, he follows hand and/or feather, he comes closer when I approach the cage and watches me even fron a distance, just like the girl living with him in the same cage. When he ran away from me, he moved as a normal glider does, jumping all around the room and even gliding from the curtain to the top of the cage. The latter, I think, would have been impossible if he was blind.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/25/06 09:05 PM

He is a cute little boy. Pretty coloring <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Welcome to GC and good luck with you Aye-Aye
Posted By: Pockets

Re: White Pupils - 05/26/06 12:22 AM

Hello Nataly
They certainly appear to be severe cataracts & more information on what diet they were eating has been requested from Australia
I am obtaining help for these <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s from OZ
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/27/06 05:59 PM

Wow, he looks like he has super powers! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/27/06 06:18 PM

WHere i sCharlie and Mary when ya need um? THey might know what is going on. They are like the almighty glider owners.
I hope you figure out what is wrong and get it fixed before something bad happens
Good luck and keep us updated.
Posted By: StitchsMom

Re: White Pupils - 05/27/06 08:41 PM

I've never seen anything like that before. Agreed, adorable glider. I'm just shocked that he still has sight. It really does look like severe cataracts. Maybe he can still see movement and light or something like that. I just can't believe that his vision is 100% with such white eyes.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/30/06 07:56 AM

Yea, that's a cataract, meaning cloudy lens and not cornea.

It is interesting that four related gliders (first cousins if I understood your post about their pedigree?) all have cataracts. It also sounded like they were born this way. Congenital cataracts can be inherited, so it makes one wonder if the breeder would want to avoid passing on that trait.

Inborn errors of metabolism can be inherited that lead to cataracts. A human enzyme defect that helps metabolize sugars can lead to cataracts. (Galactosemia.) The newborn screens check for that.

It was also mentioned that the girls cleared. It would be nice to confirm that. If correct, that would make one wonder about x-linked traits. Having a joey with leukokoria (white pupil) then clear as they move from mom's milk to solid food ties diet with metabolism.

Any chance of getting the breeder to post the pedigree on this line?
Posted By: Nataly

Re: White Pupils - 05/31/06 07:04 AM

Most unfortunately, I haven't obtained the required information and pictures from the breeder as yet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Sure, I will try to get it ASAP.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 05/31/06 06:06 PM

Wow, the picture of Aye Aye is impressive.
I attached a pic of animal cataracts that I found on the web and it looks like what Aye has. What do you think?

There are some strange parts to this story! First, any vet should be able to identify cataracts in an animal!!
Second, cataracts that severe would not allow for very good vision.
Third, cataracts do not go away by themselves.

I can't imagine what else it could be but then again I'm not an ophthalmologist. I would pursue this issue with another vet or specialist out of curiousity because I don't think you've gotten any answers and I think it may be a rare or interesting condition. A vet school would be really interested in evaluating him I'm sure.

Attached picture 578757-cataract.jpg
Posted By: Nataly

Re: White Pupils - 06/05/06 11:39 AM

I haven't got the pictures of other babies as yet; as for information, I have some.
The breeders say that the giders' diet have definitely nothing to do with it, for they were given the usual food - fruits, veggies, mealworms and things like that.
They also told me that they had several consultations, and it seems really to be a genetic mutation caused, perhaps, by some sort of electromagnetic emanation; of the latter, though, they are not so sure. Naturally, I have my doubts as well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, Aye-Aye is doing fine, although tonight he was, I think, frightened by thunder and started barking; and he wouldn't stop until I came to his cage <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Here is the link to the page with our gliders' pictures:
http://www.elhe.ru/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=PossumsWalk
Posted By: Nataly

Re: White Pupils - 06/21/06 08:02 AM

We've made a picture of Aye-Aye at daylight; here it is: http://www.glidercentral.net/gallery/album242/ayeaye
That's what I was speaking about; if you compare this picture with his night photos, you will see that his pupils do react to light.
I've also asked the Australians about him, but have not received the answer as yet.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 06/21/06 08:30 AM

A cataract will allow enough light to enter the eye to have the iris constrict and have the pupil get smaller. The image is less clear than if there no cataract, but light perception and the associated pupillary size change remains.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 06/23/06 03:43 AM

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />I want Blob.... love them fatties!!
B
Posted By: Pockets

Re: White Pupils - 06/23/06 05:46 AM

Talked with a few vets in OZ -
Strongly suggest getting this glider checked by an opthalmic specialist. These may be congenital cataracts or lenticular opacities.
There is likely to be a genetic basis as it appears very common in the US glider's.
Can comment no further without actually seeing them, hence see a specialist to obtain a proper diagnosis.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 06/23/06 08:44 PM

Looking at these pictures, I noticed that his tail is completely cream colored. There is no black tip. There was another post a while ago about a glider about a simular glider with an all cream tail that appeared to have cataracts. I wonder if they originated from the same breeder. One of my silver tailed girls appeared to have cataracts when I first got her. The vet thought that is was something else (I forget now) and prescribed some kind of eye drops and the cloudiness cleared up.

I am off to search for the other post about the cream tailed glider with cataracts. Some people speculated that the glider got into bleach, bleached its tail and damaged its eyes. I believe the there is a link between the cream colored tails and the cataracts. Do the other related joeys have black tips on their tails or are they also completely cream colored?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: White Pupils - 06/23/06 08:50 PM

Found it here

It is interesting that KiKi mentions in that post that she found an article linking white tails and cataracts.
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