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? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW

Posted By: Anonymous

? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:02 PM

hey guys, I am getting two gliders soon and have run into a question with the HPW. I have seen the recipe floating around saying 2 tsps of bee pollen are needed, but was told that the recipe in Peggy's book says only 1 tsp is needed. So my question is, Is it ok to do it either way or does it matter? I am confused
Posted By: Jaxsuggies

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:11 PM

I have not seen Peggy's book, but anywhere you go it says 2 tablespoons.

Paula
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:13 PM

I meant to say tbs in my first post lol I was going to buy some starter kits from pamperedglider and her kits only come with 1 tbs cuz that's what it says in Peggy's book. So I was wondering if that was ok to do?
Posted By: Lindsay

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:20 PM

Since I have a copy of Peggy's book on hand I just took a look and it does say 1 Tablespoon of Australian Bee Pollen in her book.

I also have seen the HPW recipe on several sites and they all say 2 Tablespoons I am sure.

Can anyone help out with the discrepancy?

Lindsay
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:23 PM

Thank you Lindsay I don't have her book so I wasn't able to check.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:26 PM

When I asked about the amount of bee pollen in the kits, sugeebaby said peggy's recipe calls for 1 tbs and that the extra bee pollen isn't being absorbed into the system and is causing a false reading at the vet. So I don't know what one to use?
Posted By: Jaxsuggies

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:38 PM

Wowwww ... I really would like to kow too. I have always used 2 tablespoons.

I hope Peggy sees this and posts!!! I hate to be giving more than what is called for.

Paula
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:41 PM

I'd suggest asking Peggy directly. Odds are, the diet probably has changed a bit since the book was published.
Posted By: snowbabygliders

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:41 PM

Two tablespoons is what the diet calls for as far as I know?? dunno. I havent seen peggy's book, but i do respect her and hope she can claryfy things here. However, the recipe/diet calls for the two tablespoons as far as I have seen it and used it myself. Whenever getting a fecal its easy to just confuse bee pollen with roundworm. I believe its the round worm that if looked at closely by a vet that knows you use bee pollen, that it will need to be accounted for. I think roundworm's difference from bee pollen, as they do look very similar on a fecal slide, is that roundworm has a more uniformed shape and has both an inner cell wall and an outer cell wall. Anyone correct me if i am wrong? I use what paula said as far as the recipe: 2 tablespoons of bee pollen, and I use the australian jarrah granules, blended of course. To me if you dont follow a diet according to its directions, you are in fact modifying said diet?? Peggy is right in saying it can cause false readings at the vets office, you just need to know IMO with your vet that you are gonna have to assess if its bee pollen you are seeing under the scope or in fact roundworm. I think even with one tablespoon IMO you still can run the chance of a fecal being a false positive. I'm not a vet so cant really answer any of these questions with much certainty as i'd like to. I make sure that my vet knows my diet and also make sure that he reads the fecals and not the techs, like most vet offices here do. No offense to vet techs here or anywhere, but when i get a fecal, I want the vet to look at it. I even dropped my past clinic because they were overcharging on fecals and wanted to charge me even more money for the vet to take a peek which is ridiculous to me. A vet tech can set it up and take a peek, but without vet confirmation, i dont feel comfortable with diagnosis.. dunno confused Peggy feel free to explain more, i am sure you published the bee pollen portion as one tbsp for a reason, , and like I said, I do respect your knowledge in the glider community and i'd love to hear your perspective on it dunno now i'm confused LOL.

Kristy
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:46 PM

I have sent a pm to Peggy asking her and telling her about the post
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 02:58 PM

I'm about ready to make more HPW this weekend but I'll wait until we can sort this out - I'd hate to be OD'ing Junior, Frik and Frak

Sue
owned by &
mom to
Posted By: Srlb

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 05:22 PM

Here I Am wave

Yes, the Original and CORRECT way is to only feed ONE tablespoon of bee pollen in with the rest of the stuff.

Somewhere along the line, someone said two tablespoons of bee pollen and it just stuck...even I am guilty of it, yet I do only use one when I make my diets.

For those of you who do and have used two, it will NOT hurt your gliders so dont worry. They expel the excess but this just means that the bee pollen will last you longer.

Easy to get wrapped up and just go with the flow. Just goes to show you we are all guilty of it.

Hope this eases everyones minds.
Posted By: Lindsay

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 05:26 PM

So it SHOULD be one Tablespoon, but if you are using two it won't hurt your glider.

Lindsay
Posted By: snowbabygliders

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 07:48 PM

LOL peggy. thanks for the calrification. well saving money on bee pollen isnt a bad thing right? grin
Posted By: Jaxsuggies

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 08:02 PM

Thanks Peggy!!!

But I do believe that this issue should be brought up on ALL boards and messages sent to all breeders who have HPW listed on their websites. I, for one will be changing the recipe on my website.

Paula
Posted By: gliderma

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 08:06 PM

I will also have to change it for my own use and on my web site. Just curious how this mistake got overlooked? I'm glad it isn't something to worry about, but wondering why it got changed?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 08:11 PM

I'll have to change it on my site as well! I have your book, but I never noticed it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 08:11 PM

sheesh I was starting to get scared, thank goodness Peggy gave me her book and I keep it in my kitchen haha
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 08:16 PM

Thanks Peggy - now this weekend I can make my regular batch - since my daughter just got Frik and Frak and with my Junior I'm still going to use just 1 batch and freeze it - that way I'll know it's gona stay fresh -

Thanks again -

Sue
owned by &
mom to
Posted By: Srlb

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/29/09 11:55 PM

Quote:
Just curious how this mistake got overlooked? I'm glad it isn't something to worry about, but wondering why it got changed?


Lynn who knows, the same way it was believed for a long time that hard foods was the cause for lumpy jaw, or that lima beans are toxic, or a glider will go blind if in the sun...

But yes, you correct, it is a good thing we didnt have to worry about and things like this SHOULD be caught...even I have typed 2 tablespoons, yet only use one... dunno
Posted By: Thumper

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/30/09 12:51 PM

A few months ago I read a post on here that said the ca:ph ratio for the HPW mixture was 1.29:1. Does anyone know if the change in the bee pollen amount will effect that ratio?
Posted By: Lindsay

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/30/09 12:59 PM

I was always under the impression that the Ca:Ph ratio was preferred to be 2:1. I don't believe that the pollen would change that.

Lindsay
Posted By: Thumper

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/30/09 01:04 PM

Thanks Lindsay. Yes, for the overall diet. But the actual mixture was said to be 1.29:1 and I'm wondering if that would change slightly.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/30/09 01:37 PM

Thumper, that is for the original diet as written. thumb
Posted By: Thumper

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/30/09 01:49 PM

Thanks Peggy!
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/31/09 01:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Thumper
Thanks Lindsay. Yes, for the overall diet. But the actual mixture was said to be 1.29:1 and I'm wondering if that would change slightly.


Actually, I checked the cal:phos content and ratios myself the other week because my vet showed concern over it and the ratio(with the correct bee pollen amount) is 1:1 for the non-breeding formula and 1.12:1 for the breeding formula.

Here's a chart showing the breakdown of everything: http://justforfuzzies.com/HPW_Analysis
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/31/09 04:55 AM

I've always used 2 Tb....if Peggy says that it won't harm our suggies, I'll probably just stick with how I've always made it.
Posted By: snowbabygliders

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 07/31/09 05:38 AM

ok comfuzzled i think im just sticking to the two tablespoons as i have been doing???
Kristy
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/02/09 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Srlb
Quote:
Just curious how this mistake got overlooked? I'm glad it isn't something to worry about, but wondering why it got changed?


Lynn who knows, the same way it was believed for a long time that hard foods was the cause for lumpy jaw, or that lima beans are toxic, or a glider will go blind if in the sun...

But yes, you correct, it is a good thing we didnt have to worry about and things like this SHOULD be caught...even I have typed 2 tablespoons, yet only use one... dunno

Peggy -

I have the "original" diet -- written out BY YOU. You send it to me every time you send me HPW powder, and I keep all the little cards. Every single one says 2 TBS of pollen. These are FROM YOU!

If you have changed the diet to 1, then that's great. I think 1 is probably better for them. But ... why pretend it has always been 1?

Every single discussion on HPW in the Diet and Nutrition forum going back as far as they go says "2". When you and I first discussed the HPW diet, and I had many many questions for you - you repeatedly said 2.

I have since switched to 1. When I sent joeys to Dani, her vet checked them out, and then reported that they were FULL of roundworm. He couldn't understand why gliders who acted so healthy could be SO SICK. According to his initial inspections, they were undergoing a MAJOR infestation.

Turns out - what he was seeing was the excess Pollen cast out through the gliders' poo. In an initial microscopic exam, Bee Pollen looks like Roundworm eggs.

That is when I switched to One TBS. In talking to Alicia, and in thinking about it, I realized if they were casting off THAT MUCH pollen, there was probably too much in their diet.

I just don't understand why you claim it has always been One. Maybe that's what you have fed - but you have always and consistently told others TWO.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/02/09 04:40 PM

I've always used 2 as well

Well I guess we'll be switching to one next time

Are we sure it's not doing any damage?! using 2?

I will be very upset if I have inadvertantly made my babies sick
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/02/09 05:11 PM

Bee Pollen is a protein source, as well as MANY trace nutrients. If anything, they are getting too much protein with 2 Tbs. Although - they seem to be very efficient about shedding the excess through their poop.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/02/09 05:24 PM

Quote:
Peggy -

I have the "original" diet -- written out BY YOU. You send it to me every time you send me HPW powder, and I keep all the little cards. Every single one says 2 TBS of pollen. These are FROM YOU!

If you have changed the diet to 1, then that's great. I think 1 is probably better for them. But ... why pretend it has always been 1?


Alden, I am NOT PRETENDING anything...

I have admitted I made a mistake and including on the cards that I have sent out. If you look in my BOOK where the ORIGINAL recipe was WRITTEN, you will see it says ONE.

People DO make mistakes, that is why man placed an eraser on the end of a pencil. But to say I am Pretending....well that is far fetched, but thanks anyway.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/02/09 05:32 PM

I think everyone is just confused because the only place that you have ever written that HPW calls for only 1 is in your book.. which easily could have been a misprint. When there is only one place that contradicts all your other writings I would automatically think the book was the error.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/02/09 05:36 PM

If the extra pollen is too much protein, do you think that could be the cause of UTIs? My female, Leda, had excess protein in her urine, which is why I ask.
Posted By: USMom

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/02/09 05:39 PM

I think to say that she is "pretending" it has always been 1 is kind of harsh. Her book says 1, and granted this is talking, but I have to ask half the time when I make it, and she's always told me 1. I'm kind surprised that this is such an issue, as it's not a health hazzard, right? A mistake was made, move on.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/02/09 05:43 PM

Sorry - I didn't mean it to be harsh. I just was curious. I was asking a question and didn't mean it to be harsh or accusatory.
Posted By: queenduck

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/07/09 05:36 PM

LOL. Peggy, did you hit your head recently? You have told me 2 T from the beginning of time, before my children were born. before I was born smirk How many times did I have to call and say... How much bee pollen and how many eggs? You would think I could get it right after 4 years. I did finally write it down to save on that call smile

It's like the story where the great-grandma cuts the end off a roast before she cooks it for Christmas. Generation after generation her kids an grandkids do the same. Then one generation asks.. mom why do you cut the end off, she says I don't know, I saw my mom do it, then they ask grandma, why did you do that, she says... I don't know but I saw my mom do it. So they finally ask great-grandma and she says... huh dunno I did that once because the roast was too big for the pan.

I think somewhere down the line it got confused, 1 or 2 T, who messed it up and why? It doesn't make any difference now.

And I thought I was being smart and unique this last March when I cut mine from 2 T (for 3 1/2 years) down to 1 T because there was so much pollen in my fecals.

Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/07/09 07:18 PM

Guerita - excess protein in a glider's urine (or anyone else's) is the body's response to the infection and is a sign the kidneys are involved in the infection.

Excess protein is not passed through to the urine - or all Americans would have it as most of us eat way more protein (and everything else) than our bodies actually need.
Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/07/09 07:27 PM

WOW. So all this time it has been wrong EVERYWHERE?? Holy crow!! I am glad I saw this post... and I guess it needs to be changed ont he SPIN site and my site, too!
Posted By: sandbat

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/08/09 01:13 AM

I just made a new batch a week and a half ago...should I make a new one?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/08/09 01:19 AM

So could someone please post the whole correct receipe? Thanks
Posted By: Srlb

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/08/09 01:35 AM

sandbat, you dont need to make a new one.

As for the correct recipe, just take the 2 tablespoons of bee pollen down to one. thumb
Posted By: Srlb

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/08/09 02:47 AM

Quote:
So could someone please post the whole correct receipe?


The Whole CORRECT recipe can be found by clicking on the Diet Links button at the top of the page and going to the HPW diet.

Eddie was kind enough to go in there and fix it. Thanks Eddie.

HPW Diet
Posted By: StitchsMom

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/08/09 03:59 AM

Glad I caught this!
Posted By: DirtyPaws

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/08/09 04:20 AM

I've been using the recipe I GOT FROM PEGGY shakehead (2T) and we just had fecals done at our house and Dr. Murray didn't mention a thing. ??????????? Do you think they even paid attention to 9 test results?

Thanks Peggy for 'cutting the end off the roast' roflmao at least we caught it and hopefully there really are no health issues.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/08/09 12:33 PM

Your Welcome Crystal.
Posted By: IowaMisty

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/10/09 10:39 PM

I'll update my website soon too & I guess I should probably start selling my bee pollen in 1 TBSP amounts instead of 2 TBSP amounts, so it doesn't confuse people.

Whether Peggy wrote it as 2 TBSP here & 1 TBSP there, she's still saying it should be 1 now, so I have to go with what she says. She IS the one who co-created the HPW diet (which if I understand right was based off of PML, which has NO bee pollen in it). I don't think the extra pollen is really harmful. It's a natural ingredient, so giving too much would just mean their bodies would expel the extra un-needed nutrients.

Peggy, are you sure the 1.29 ratio was derived using only 1 TBSP of bee pollen? I'm going to have to go back & look at the info I got with the breakdown. Lindsay, having more or less bee pollen would almost definitely change the nutritional content, at least a little bit, and alter the ratio. It wouldn't be a huge difference, but it would be a difference, I would think.

Misty
Posted By: Jaxsuggies

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/10/09 11:36 PM

I have changed my website and my starter kit only contains 1 tbs now!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/10/09 11:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Originally Posted By: Thumper
Thanks Lindsay. Yes, for the overall diet. But the actual mixture was said to be 1.29:1 and I'm wondering if that would change slightly.


Actually, I checked the cal:phos content and ratios myself the other week because my vet showed concern over it and the ratio(with the correct bee pollen amount) is 1:1 for the non-breeding formula and 1.12:1 for the breeding formula.

Here's a chart showing the breakdown of everything: http://justforfuzzies.com/HPW_Analysis


Here it is using 1 tbsp
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW - 08/11/09 12:07 AM

Here is the thread where Ed did the nutritional analysis on HPW. He used the recipe that called for 2 tablespoons and came up with the ratio of 1.29


http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...YSIS#Post368216
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