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(Toxic cage thread) Update on recall -PART FOUR #1139099
07/02/11 12:15 PM
07/02/11 12:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Gizmogirl  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
G

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa

Last edited by sugarlope; 06/19/13 02:35 PM. Reason: changed title

Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139109
07/02/11 12:49 PM
07/02/11 12:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Quote:
We received our replacement cage on June 30. We cleaned it up good and let it dry over night before putting it together. On July 1 we received an email telling us not to put the cage together because some of the panels may not be properly coated. The email stated a new replacement, replacement cage was being shipped out on July 1 and instructions to place the original PVC cage and the new replacement cage in the box the replacement cage came in and return via Fed X with return label provided and we would receive a tracking number for the new replacement, replacement cage later that day. Later on July 1 we received a phone call from Martins telling us of the panel situation and for us not to put the replacement cage together until we looked it over good to make sure we had none of the bad panels and if we did have bad panels to contact them and they would ship the new replacement, replacement cage out on July 5.

Our story began in March when both of our gliders were affected by the PVC cage. One (Taz) died after a trip to the emergency vet. The other (Rocky) started showing the same signs the next day and was seen by our regular vet. Rocky was placed in a hospital cage so we could better monitor his progress while we administered the meds. When Rocky began to show improvement he was returned to the PVC cage. In May we decided to replace Taz and found another young male (Oscar). During the introductions it looked like Rocky was not going to let Oscar stay with him so we decided to buy another cage from Martins just in case. When we attempted to order the new cage it was shown as 'out of stock'. We sent a message to Martins inquiring when they would have them back in stock. The next day we got the response about the issue with the cages and to remove them from the cage if they began to show the signs. By the time we returned home from work Rocky was showing the signs again. We returned him to the hospital cage and started the meds again. Unfortunately for us all our vet knew was that a virus had affected the east coast glider community and that only 50% were surviving (this was in March 2011) the meds we received were anti-inflammatory and calcium supplements to be given orally twice daily for 5 days only.

We purchased a flight cage from a local pet store where Oscar stayed until Rocky started feeling better. When we restarted introductions Oscar was the aggressor so Rocky was returned to the hospital cage. We are afraid that Oscar senses something is wrong with Rocky and wants nothing to do with him.

With the new replacement cage not having any bad panels we put it together and will attempt reintroductions again in the new cage.

Our $300.00 glider investment has turned into well over $1,000.00 with the purchase of additional gliders (Taz and Oscar) and cages. Our vet bills alone have been over $750.00. Emotional stress from the death of Taz and the near death of Rocky is immeasurable.

We know we are not alone in this saga and that many have suffered, both glider and human. We feel that Martins should have notified us, as soon as they pulled the cages from sale inventory, of concern for the health of some gliders. This would not have saved Taz but could have prevented a relapse for Rocky.

Has Martins admitted partial responsibility with the free replacement of the PCV coated cages they sell? Can we absorb the needless expense we've incurred? Is it right to ask us to? I know the glider community is not a 'rich' community and we struggle to give our gliders the best we can. For us to be exposed to these needless expenses hurts.

Thank you for reading our ramblings, once we got started our feelings took over.


Bob and Glenda...first, let me say I'm so sorry for your loss of Taz and the ongoing issues you've had with Rocky. hug2

As for Martin's...it's not a matter of them claiming responsibility because they do not manufacture the PVC coated wire that was affected. This is a problem with the manufacturers and it's on them, not the companies that distribute the cages. Yes, they could have handled things differently, I agree wholeheartedly with you on that and many of us wish things had been put to the forefront quicker than it happened. frown We can talk till we're blue in the face about what could have or should have been done. I wish we could turn back time and I hate that gliders lives were lost in all of this. But now we have to move forward and try to ensure that this doesn't happen to others and give them as much information as we can.

Good luck with your introductions and more importantly, the healing of your hearts.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139110
07/02/11 01:03 PM
07/02/11 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,061
Meridian, ID
fox0r Offline
Glider Guardian
fox0r  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,061
Meridian, ID
I think if someone were to prove that it was the cage, that Martin's would be responsible, as they distribute them. I have a girlfriend that is a lawyer, I'll ask her and see what she says.

It prolly varies from state to state, though, but it can't hurt to find something out.


-Jen

Sugar Mountain - Sugar gliders in Idaho!
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139119
07/02/11 01:53 PM
07/02/11 01:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
I think if someone were to prove that it was the cage, that Martin's would be responsible, as they distribute them.


Nope Jen, Martins can not be held responsible. They just sell the cages, they do not produce the wire itself.

Just as when I owned my store and there was that large Dogfood recall, I sold food, but I was not responsible if any dogs got sick just because someone bought a bag from me.

The only way they can be held liable for such actions, is if you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they sold these cages with malicious intent. Which we know nobody would do.

In all honesty, cages do not even *have* to be replaced by them, what Martins and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets are doing is actually above and beyond what has to be done. They could have just said, well, sorry, we didnt make the cages we just sell them, you will have to go after the manufacturing company that makes the wire to return your money.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139124
07/02/11 02:06 PM
07/02/11 02:06 PM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Quote:
Has Martins admitted partial responsibility with the free replacement of the PCV coated cages they sell? Can we absorb the needless expense we've incurred? Is it right to ask us to? I know the glider community is not a 'rich' community and we struggle to give our gliders the best we can. For us to be exposed to these needless expenses hurts.


I do not see how (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets or Martin's are responsible for a product they sell, not make.
When cribs sold at toys R Us and Walmart killed babies, these stores were not held accountable, the manufacturers were.
I believe we need to hold the manufacturers accountable, not the distributors, who've done all they can to fix the issue as to the best of their ability. It's no more they're fault than it is those who used the cages.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE [Re: ] #1139142
07/02/11 02:50 PM
07/02/11 02:50 PM

C
Crystalg820
Unregistered
Crystalg820
Unregistered
C



Well said, I completely agree. The manufacturer is responsible and the one that should be held accountable. the companies that sell these cages are as much a victim in this as we are!

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139156
07/02/11 03:38 PM
07/02/11 03:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
Rocky_D Offline
In Pouch
Rocky_D  Offline
In Pouch

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
We do blame the manufacturer, Martins. Our cage was manufactured by Martins Cages. Had we purchased wire and made our own cage, we may possibly agree. That is not the case. Martins Cages is the manufacture.

See if this fits the situation: You purchase a new Automobile from a dealer and it turns out that a faulty power steering hose may have been used. The manufacturer of the automobile did not manufacture the hose, yet they do the recall once they discover the issue. Automobile manufacturers have been held liable for the use of faulty parts that resulted in deaths. It is the responsibility of the automobile manufacturer to ensure the parts it uses on its automobiles are safe and free of defect.

Martins may not have manufactured the wire but they did manufacture the cages using the faulty wire. We contend that it is Martins responsibility to ensure the products they use to make their advertised 'safe' cages is, just that, safe. Quoted from Martins website: '...create the most suitable cages for all kinds of pets.' '...has devoted his life to ever- improving the dwellings of all kinds of pets.' '...each pet’s comfort and safety in mind.' This is what led us to purchase their cages.

We will forever hold Martins responsible for the death of, and all fees associated with, Taz and the vet bills for both him and Rocky and noone will ever change that. Will we ever recoup our losses? Probably not.


Bob n Glenda


:grey: Rocky D

:rbridge: Taz
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139200
07/02/11 06:32 PM
07/02/11 06:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
I have to agree that Martin's is the manufacture of the cages they sell.

Even though they don't manufacture the wire they use to make the cages, they are still responsible for the cages they do make and sell.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139208
07/02/11 06:59 PM
07/02/11 06:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 65
Lake Worth,FL
Hershey_Kisses11 Offline
Out of Pouch
Hershey_Kisses11  Offline
Out of Pouch

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 65
Lake Worth,FL
I got my new cage 2 days ago and they had to order them from the manufacture. All there cages are order from the manufacture they do not make them in there store they are shipped to them and then they ship them to us. How would you propose they be held responsible?



Hershey ~ Kisses
4/8/11 ~ 6/27/11
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139250
07/02/11 10:23 PM
07/02/11 10:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,061
Meridian, ID
fox0r Offline
Glider Guardian
fox0r  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,061
Meridian, ID
This is what she said:

This could vary from state to state, and products liability is definitely not my specialty, but my understanding is that it would depend on where the mistake was made and what kind of action you bring. If there was a design defect, then the manufacturer is the more obvious culprit. But if there's a suit based on breach of warranty, and the warranty is through the distributer, that's a different can of worms. Historically, there was a bunch of [censored] about a lack of "privity" between the manufacturer and the end buyer barring legal action that has ultimately become defunct, but based on that I believe distributers could be sued as well (although they might then have a cause of action themselves against the manufacturers). That was a really long and convoluted way of saying, it depends.


-Jen

Sugar Mountain - Sugar gliders in Idaho!
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139304
07/03/11 01:22 AM
07/03/11 01:22 AM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



That's the thing though. Martin's is not the manufacturer of the product, the chemical, that's causing the problems. They're the distributor. If they make a cage, they are the manufacturer of the cage. But if they did not make the coating, those panels, than they are the distributor of those items, not the manufacturer.

They're eating the cost of the items supplied to them, and they are not at fault for the toxin, their distributors are.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139659
07/03/11 06:59 PM
07/03/11 06:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
Rocky_D Offline
In Pouch
Rocky_D  Offline
In Pouch

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
We kinda think they are the cage manufacturer as is evdent by the signature on all the e-mails we have received.

"Dee Carter
Martin's Cages, Inc.
Manufacturer of Quality Pet Cages
http://www.martinscages.com"


It appears that Martins thinks they are the manufacturer also.


Bob n Glenda


:grey: Rocky D

:rbridge: Taz
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: ] #1139779
07/04/11 01:14 AM
07/04/11 01:14 AM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M





I will highlight. They may be the manufacturer of the cage, but this does not mean they are the manufacturer of CHEMICAL or the panels.

Originally Posted By: Megs
That's the thing though. Martin's is not the manufacturer of the product, the chemical, that's causing the problems. They're the distributor. If they make a cage, they are the manufacturer of the cage. But if they did not make the coating, those panels, than they are the distributor of those items, not the manufacturer.

They're eating the cost of the items supplied to them, and they are not at fault for the toxin, their distributors are.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139839
07/04/11 09:20 AM
07/04/11 09:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
Rocky_D Offline
In Pouch
Rocky_D  Offline
In Pouch

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
It is the responsibility of the manufacturer to make sure the componets they use during the manufacturing process are safe. We did not buy any CHEMICALs or panels, we bought a manufactured pet cage.


Bob n Glenda


:grey: Rocky D

:rbridge: Taz
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1139928
07/04/11 02:13 PM
07/04/11 02:13 PM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Ok lets put it this way.

I make toys. Soon I will start selling them, cause they're unique and fun.

I use the same exact materials as the other vendors here, some of which have been around for quite a while.

Same as this... Illnesses are occurring, some deaths, and we find that once the toys are taken away, the gliders are fine. Come to learn it's the beads. Upon further investigation, we learn that the manufacturer of these beads just recently started using a new chemical, and never told a soul. Maybe they didn't find it necessary. Who knows.

Now, WalMart/WalGreen's/Dollar Tree are distributors of these beads.

Us vendors are the manufacturers of the toys. So should we be held financially accountable? I don't think so. We didn't make the beads. We used them to make the toys.

Unless Martin's made the coating causing the issues with their cages and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets's cages, than they are just as innocent. They made the cages, not the coating. It's the coating on the cages they made that has caused the issues.

This isn't a sharp edge or incorrect spacing, this is the coating, which they didn't create. I don't see how this is their fault.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1140038
07/04/11 08:56 PM
07/04/11 08:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
As a vendor, we would have a responsibility to our customers. We would also then have an action against the distributors and manufactures of those beads.

We have a responsibility to insure our products are safe and since Martins own website states they sell only animal safe cages, they have made themselves liable for those products and what those products are made from.

But they also have cause against the manufacture/supplier of the wire they use to make those cages.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1140039
07/04/11 08:56 PM
07/04/11 08:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,472
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,472
Wisconsin
I do believe that they have some accountability in this situation. Their denying any problems kept gliders in bad cages longer than they should have been.

It will be hard to prove it in court without testing that proves the coating was the problem.

I believe that if a lawsuit is brought they would list Martins et al, thereby including Martins and their suppliers. If the lawsuit is won it would be up to Martins to bring a suit against their suppliers.

The bottom line is without the piece of paper with lab results saying that the coating was bad and the reason gliders were getting sick it will be a long expensive road to go after Martins and their suppliers.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Stevie, Cho, Toothless & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman, Light Fury & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1140043
07/04/11 09:14 PM
07/04/11 09:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
The way the American legal system works, Martin's and Pocket Pets would definitely be at least partially responsible.

Which is why I don't believe we'll ever see that piece of paper, Feather.

The fox is guarding the hens in this case. The people who are controlling the testing are the same people who could be sued for liability.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1140133
07/05/11 02:09 AM
07/05/11 02:09 AM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Yes it is their liability... To an extent.

Any person or group of people willing to go into business, no matter how large, take on the responsibility. But because they didn't create every last 'fiber' of the cage, when a third party, Company X, changes how they create something but do not make it known, EVER, Company X is completely responsible. Martin's and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets are not in the business of fortune telling, they are not Ms. Cleo, they were never made aware there were changes in the coating. How would they know?

I've never heard of companies or private vendors contacting business they get their supplies from for each new order asking if changes were made between their last order and their new order. Is that what they should do to cover themselves?

I agree, Martin's waited too long. Absolutely, they did!
But I think too many people would rather place blame on Martin's and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets when the blame moreso belongs on Company's X's shoulders.

And I'm with you Alden, the companies controlling the testing are also the very companies who could be sued; fox guarding the hens.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1140179
07/05/11 07:27 AM
07/05/11 07:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
As far as I know we still live in America. One of the great things about this country is that you can sue anyone if you feel like you have been damaged. This stuff about you “can't” sue them is nonsense.

The manufacturer definitely holds a responsibility, but the distributor might also if they were negligent in correcting or informing about the problem. The only way to know if they were negligent would be to talk to an attorney and have them subpoena the company records. So you could actually sue all of the companies involved in one law suit and let the court determine how much each company was responsible. An attorney could also get their hands on exactly who the manufacturer was and what the test results proved.

If you win such a suit, the companies could be held responsible for replacement costs of the pets, replacement of the cages, medical bills, court costs, your legal fees and maybe punitive damages if the company was severely negligent.

My thinking is that you guys need to stop looking for answers on the forums and get together and request a free consultation from a couple of different attorneys. You also need to make sure that those cages are kept, not sent back or thrown away. And you need to document every thing. Write it down while it is still fresh in your minds and if you took pictures or video be sure that you keep them.

In addition to that you should contact federal and state consumer protection agencies. These are government organizations that are there to protect you the consumer from being harmed by companies.

Have any of you thought to contact other groups to find out if Sugar Gliders are the only animal involved?

BTW, I've heard some say that powder coated cages could not be toxic. That is not true. Anything could be toxic if the wrong ingredient is added to the mix.


Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook



Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1140285
07/05/11 12:08 PM
07/05/11 12:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
E
eshaw Offline
Glider Lover
eshaw  Offline
Glider Lover
E

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
I'm relatively sure that the way it works is Martins and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets would and could be considered plaintiffs in a class action suit. If you stop and think about it why in the world would (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets decide to finally do the right thing for once when up to this point they've acted like they were just in it for the money? That's because they are in if for the money, same as Martin when it comes to selling cages. If you are a distributor of a defective product you assume some liability for said product because you propogate and dessiminate the product.

Has anyone passed the word along to any other sites that might have used these cages? I don't mean glider sites, I mean ANY site where a small animal is kept caged? If there is a nuerological condition due to a chemical component you can rest assured that other critters are also at risk.

Has anyone explored the possibility that the owner of these cages may also be being exposed to a nuerological agent? YOU are also exposed. Just because you aren't expressing any symptoms doesn't mean you aren't going to later. It could be that due to size the threshholds are different but none-the-less, you are a victim also.

Last edited by eshaw; 07/05/11 12:26 PM.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1141096
07/06/11 06:59 PM
07/06/11 06:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict
krysKritters  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
I want to post a community announcment on my fb and webpage and I am having trouble locating important details... I use reptariums so I hadn't paid attention to specific details before. (Sorry)

Can someone please point out symptoms to look for and other important details?


Thank you and I am sorry for those who have lost thier gliders. hug2


Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1141132
07/06/11 08:04 PM
07/06/11 08:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128
Mississippi
M
Midien Offline
Joey Member
Midien  Offline
Joey Member
M

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128
Mississippi
Although I'm sure it's little more than a curious observation at this point, I thought I'd post in the event anyone found it at least interesting.

I'd broken down and packed up my Martin's cage into the little storage closet outside on my apartment's porch a couple weeks ago, LONG after I took Nox out of it, and it's been locked in there since then.

This evening was beautiful and rainy, so I decided to open up the storage closet and get my folding chair out so I could sit outside on the porch and do my programming homework....

... When I opened the door to the storage closet, the smell surprised me. Now, I got this cage in late April, mind you. The WHOLE CLOSET smelled so strongly of PVC... even after I closed the door and locked it up again, I could still smell it by the door. I would have thought that the smell would have eased off by now, but nope. O.o Not one bit. Now my folding chair smells like PVC. O.o

I'm so glad I took Nox out of there when I did. x.x


~Laura~

<3 :grey: Nox (Approx. OOP 02/15/2011) and Luna :grey: <3
and a puppy - Tucker (Approx. birth 05/2007) <3
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1141134
07/06/11 08:08 PM
07/06/11 08:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
A few weeks ago, our AC compressor died and we lost our AC for a couple of days and the house became quite humid. As soon as that humidity/heat began, there was a horribly noxious odor in the house and we couldn't figure out what on earth it was. We tried air fresheners, we wondered if something died in the walls, we even cleaned out our drains. The smell persisted. Long story short...in the hallway in the basement was ONE panel of our old PVC cage. It'd been there for some time but the basement is VERY dry and cool. I took it outside, the smell instantly (within seconds) dissipated and haven't smelled it since. Coincidence? I think not.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1141249
07/06/11 11:19 PM
07/06/11 11:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict
krysKritters  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
What signs should people be on the look out for in thier gliders?

What date range where the "defective" cages sold?

WHAT should we be warning people to look for?

I help educate many gliders owners that do not come to the boards and I would really like to help get the word out around here! Many of them have gliders from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. frown I need to know what info to pass along though.


Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: krysKritters] #1141309
07/07/11 12:20 AM
07/07/11 12:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Originally Posted By: krysKritters
What signs should people be on the look out for in thier gliders?

Tremors and other signs that often mimic HLP are the most common.

What date range where the "defective" cages sold?

Dating back to October, 2010.

WHAT should we be warning people to look for?

Any signs in their glider, such as tremors, what they might think is HLP, seizures, lethargy

I help educate many gliders owners that do not come to the boards and I would really like to help get the word out around here! Many of them have gliders from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. frown I need to know what info to pass along though.

(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets tried their hardest to be in touch with every person they sold cages to, if they had contact information. That's not to say that some weren't contacted or missed, but I know they did a decent job of getting in touch with those that had affected cages.

If you have other questions...you can contact Peggy, as she has been a main point of contact through this ordeal.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1141386
07/07/11 07:19 AM
07/07/11 07:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict
krysKritters  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
Thank you so much! I wanted to be sure I could pass on accurate information. smile


Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Midien] #1141761
07/07/11 11:52 PM
07/07/11 11:52 PM

C
Crystalg820
Unregistered
Crystalg820
Unregistered
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Yup, mine is on my porch...has been since the beginning of June. I walked out on my porch after getting rain and I could smell the pvc coating as soon as I opened the door. And my porch IS NOT enclosed. My little one at this point is still very wobbly when walking and I really dont think her hind legs are going to get any better. She seems to be adapting but I hate that she struggles with walking, climbing and gliding frown sadly I haven't seen improvement in that respect in a few weeks. On the upside she is absolutely feeling better and is working very hard on figuring out how she can keep up with her sister....and she is begginig to play again. Couldn't imagine losing either one of them.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1141762
07/08/11 12:05 AM
07/08/11 12:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
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Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
So sorry. But glad she's adapting. You may want to consider contacting Val ( Jackie_Chans_Mom) for some ideas on how to make her cage a good and safe place, along with any other ideas the two of you may bounce off one another. She has good experience with this!

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: ] #1142609
07/09/11 02:43 PM
07/09/11 02:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
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DianeR Offline
Joey Member
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Crystalg820
Yup, mine is on my porch...has been since the beginning of June. I walked out on my porch after getting rain and I could smell the pvc coating as soon as I opened the door. And my porch IS NOT enclosed. My little one at this point is still very wobbly when walking and I really dont think her hind legs are going to get any better. She seems to be adapting but I hate that she struggles with walking, climbing and gliding frown sadly I haven't seen improvement in that respect in a few weeks. On the upside she is absolutely feeling better and is working very hard on figuring out how she can keep up with her sister....and she is begginig to play again. Couldn't imagine losing either one of them.


I got a notice some time ago that the new protocol for treating the sugar gliders affected by the pvc cages was Calcium EDTA and B12 shots. Has your female gotten these? If not it could possibly help.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: DianeR] #1142700
07/09/11 06:13 PM
07/09/11 06:13 PM

C
Crystalg820
Unregistered
Crystalg820
Unregistered
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Yeah she had 2 rounds of the calcium EDTA and two B12 shots along with subQ fluids. My other baby CoCo never exhibited any symptoms but we did 1 round of the calcium EDTA and 1 round of B12 ans subQ fluid. I think she is slowly getting better, very slowly but getting better. Thanks

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: ] #1143225
07/10/11 09:35 PM
07/10/11 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,061
Meridian, ID
fox0r Offline
Glider Guardian
fox0r  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,061
Meridian, ID
Originally Posted By: Crystalg820
Yup, mine is on my porch...has been since the beginning of June. I walked out on my porch after getting rain and I could smell the pvc coating as soon as I opened the door. And my porch IS NOT enclosed. My little one at this point is still very wobbly when walking and I really dont think her hind legs are going to get any better. She seems to be adapting but I hate that she struggles with walking, climbing and gliding frown sadly I haven't seen improvement in that respect in a few weeks. On the upside she is absolutely feeling better and is working very hard on figuring out how she can keep up with her sister....and she is begginig to play again. Couldn't imagine losing either one of them.


My Cici is about the same. She climbs pretty okay in the cage, though, but I haven't seen her try to climb anything during tent time, and she has a heck of a time walking, but still gets around. I don't think she will get any better, either, since like in your situation, it has been some time.


-Jen

Sugar Mountain - Sugar gliders in Idaho!
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1143241
07/10/11 10:14 PM
07/10/11 10:14 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 240
Annapolis, MD
Ikeda Offline
Glider Explorer
Ikeda  Offline
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 240
Annapolis, MD
This argument took a litigious tone quickly.

You cannot blame Martin's as you haven't yet proved ANYTHING other than their cages may be to blame. I for one STILL have my gliders in their Martin's cage from this time period and MY gliders are just peachy keen.

Some of that MAY be luck, some of that may be due to the cages but until someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Martin's is responsible then they have done above and beyond everything they needed to do.

I'm sorry for those affected but this is very dividing to the community as a whole. Start a class action suit and just KNOW that there are others out you under very SIMILAR circumstances that AREN'T affected and these will be very much used as evidence to prove a reasonable doubt exists.


:grey: Rocky and Winkle's Dad :wfb:

Rocky: (recognizing Boris's voice) That voice. Where have I heard that voice before?

Bullwinkle: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1143258
07/10/11 11:01 PM
07/10/11 11:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
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hwh4ev Offline
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hwh4ev  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
has anybody contacted a lawyer to see what can be done?

we have alot of gliders that died and alot that will never
fully recover.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Ikeda] #1143684
07/11/11 09:41 PM
07/11/11 09:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
Rocky_D Offline
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Rocky_D  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
Originally Posted By: Ikeda
This argument took a litigious tone quickly.

You cannot blame Martin's as you haven't yet proved ANYTHING other than their cages may be to blame. I for one STILL have my gliders in their Martin's cage from this time period and MY gliders are just peachy keen.

Some of that MAY be luck, some of that may be due to the cages but until someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Martin's is responsible then they have done above and beyond everything they needed to do.

I'm sorry for those affected but this is very dividing to the community as a whole. Start a class action suit and just KNOW that there are others out you under very SIMILAR circumstances that AREN'T affected and these will be very much used as evidence to prove a reasonable doubt exists.


This would not be a criminal action. It would be a civil action and you do not need to prove 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' or show 'reasonable doubt exists' for civil actions, just by perponderance of the evidence. i.e. is it more like than not. O J was not convicted murder yet he was found CIVILLY liable for the deaths. We doubt a judge would allow a class action suit due to the small number of claimants. Martins own actions in replacing cages without being ordered to do so, shows they believe they're culpable.
If you believe they were replacing them out of the 'goodness of their hearts' you have much to learn about life. Lack of issues with your gliders does not mean all the cages are 'safe' as Martins claims.

Last edited by Rocky_D; 07/11/11 09:44 PM. Reason: To fix quote sentax

Bob n Glenda


:grey: Rocky D

:rbridge: Taz
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1144165
07/12/11 10:25 PM
07/12/11 10:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 247
WNY
A
AnimalLuv21 Offline
Glider Explorer
AnimalLuv21  Offline
Glider Explorer
A

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 247
WNY
What are PVC cages?


Aidan,Cody,BB,Charlie,Glacier,Endora,Linus,Chastity,Kuzco & Petals (my sweet gliders)
Gizmo & Milo (Kitties)
Sabrina, Otis & Buster (Pug puppies)
http://sugarsweetglidersnchins.bravehost.com/
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1144386
07/13/11 07:31 AM
07/13/11 07:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 247
WNY
A
AnimalLuv21 Offline
Glider Explorer
AnimalLuv21  Offline
Glider Explorer
A

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 247
WNY
I found it, this is the first i heard of this topic and i was a bit scared.


Aidan,Cody,BB,Charlie,Glacier,Endora,Linus,Chastity,Kuzco & Petals (my sweet gliders)
Gizmo & Milo (Kitties)
Sabrina, Otis & Buster (Pug puppies)
http://sugarsweetglidersnchins.bravehost.com/
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: AnimalLuv21] #1144387
07/13/11 07:35 AM
07/13/11 07:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,346
South Africa
Bozeman Offline
Glider Slave
Bozeman  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,346
South Africa
Originally Posted By: AnimalLuv21
What are PVC cages?


A PVC cage is a cage built from PVC pipes and connectors.


:grey: Casper (Bozeman) & Liezl (Gizmogirl):grey:
www.sugarglider.co.za
hug2

A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language


PackinFuzz.com Sugar Glider Online Store

RIP: Sugar (2009) :grey:
You unfairly passed too young - your passing saved many gliders and will continue to do so
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1146872
07/17/11 04:58 PM
07/17/11 04:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 31
NY
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cherry0606 Offline
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 31
NY
I came to this post really late as I purchased my cages before October of 2010. However here's my experience:

I purchased one smaller cage from Martin's cages back in 2009 when I first got my first two gliders. Then around February 2010 I purchased a larger one for my gliders and another in probably late August/Early September. (I have two females that just don't get along, so they are housed separately.) I lost one glider in early August who lived in the cage purchased in Feb, and another glider in September who lived in the second cage a few days after he moved into the new cage. We had necropsy done on the first glider and was told it was caused by some kind of toxins that cause neurological problems. We were not able to pinpoint the source. For the whole time we thought it was some bad food we fed, as we had a batch of mealworms that went moldy after a few hot summer days. We had five gliders at that time, and Apple was the only one got sick in August. All the gliders ate the same thing. None of us could be certain about the mealworm, but at the time, that was the only explanation that seemed reasonable. However giving the recent discussion in the glider community, the symptoms we saw was very similar to what our gliders had. Our first glider was seen trembling slightly on one Friday night. He deteriorated very fast over the weekend, and by the time we brought him to the vet on Monday, he was shaking severely and blind.

For the whole times we suspected that the mealworm wasn't really the cause of our gliders' illness, as the two gliders were sick almost 6 weeks apart, and that just didn't seem right. Also, our vet was very puzzled when we brought the first glider in as he had never seen anything like that. That's unusual if the glider is sick from food. After we found the mold in the mealworms (and before our first glider was sick) the entire batch of mealworms was thrown out and all equipments wiped with alcohol. When the second glider fell sick after six weeks, none of us could explain why.

I haven't follow the discussion on the glider community too closely as I thought my cages were purchased outside the problem time frame. We never suspected it could be the cages so I still had two sets of gliders living in those two cages until two days ago. These gliders seem fine with no outward symptoms of anything been wrong. I remember seeing a few of them trembling sometimes, but nothing further than that.

People respond to toxins differently. Some people die right after exposure, some have problems years down the road, and some people lived their entire life without any issues. This may be the case for gliders too. The first glider may accumulated toxins and the symptom showed a few months later, and the second one was hit much faster. Each of the gliders died had cagemate(s), and the cagemates are still around. In fact, since then I adopted more gliders and they also live in one of those two cages without problems. For them, either whatever the toxins killed the other two gliders didn't affect them, or I haven't seen the visible sign yet.

I just came across last Thursday night that I purchased the bulk wire roll in October of last year, and then realized I also purchased a cage shortly before that going through my credit card statements. My second glider fell ill a few days after he moved in to the second cage. This led me back to my vet to discuss about my gliders again. I was told by his office that they saw eight more cases after ours, and those were probably cage related.

I contacted Martin's Cages first regarding the roll I purchased in October, and was told they haven't receive any report regarding problem with rolls. If they depend on receiving reports from customers with issues, then it may very well be that the problem existed before October of 2010. We had problem with our gliders in August and September for cages purchased in Feb and August. We didn't report it because we didn't know it could be the cages.

After speaking with the vet on Friday, we moved all of our gliders out of the PVC cages, and we got rid of the unused rolls. At this point none of us knows the long term consequence for our other gliders that don't seem to be affected by the cages at the moment. They may have a great happy long life as any other gliders, or some problems may show up later in their life. I don't know. No one knows.

After reading this some people may feel that there's no concrete proof showing that my gliders die from the cages. The way I see it, is the cages is the only logical explanation so far. After losing two gliders, the stake is far bigger than I want to gamble. Having two gliders died mysteriously almost two months apart with same condition was not a pleasant experience to go through. This is why I took my gliders out of the PVC cages on Friday night and put them into temporary powder coated bird cages until the new big cages arrive this week. I took the same precaution when we suspected it was the worms by stop farming my own mealworms and only purchase them in small batches.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1146898
07/17/11 06:05 PM
07/17/11 06:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
GliderGuy540 Offline
Glider Lover
GliderGuy540  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
I'm so sorry to hear you lost two gliders and I am gad you have removed the others from the suspect cages. I doubt we will ever know exactly what happened with these cages.


--==Kevin==--
Suggie-Daddy to Willow, Wicket, and Loki
:grey: :grey: :plat:

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1146933
07/17/11 07:31 PM
07/17/11 07:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,472
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,472
Wisconsin
That is the whole problem they rely on us to tell them there is a problem, but then they do not believe us.

I for one would like to know if any rat, ferret, rabbit, chinchilla or other animal owners that use the coated cages are having problems with their pets. I do not believe for a minute that it is only sugar gliders, they use that coated wire for a lot of different animal cages.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Stevie, Cho, Toothless & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman, Light Fury & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1149765
07/22/11 02:00 PM
07/22/11 02:00 PM

C
caliejean86
Unregistered
caliejean86
Unregistered
C



I have stepped away from this issue for a while now to cool down, collect my thoughts and help my babies recover. Taz died, harley seems fine and Chloe is no way near herself. She seems to either be partially blind and her sense of smell really bad. She is not the happy, active glider she used to be. I believe since she can't smell well she doesnt eat or forgets to eat. After months I am still syringe feeding her as she is losing weight. I do hold Martin's responsible since Feb when the first case came to light they knew about it. Only when I called them when Taz and Chloe got sick in May did they pull the gliders cage come off their website. AS for their powdercoated cages tehy are replacing them with . they are junk. They replaced brendas with one back in Feb and it was flaking, so here we are 5 months later and they are still doing this. ridiculous. This whole thing disgusts me, So many innocent gliders died and it took months and finally many people to call them to get them to do anything .. disgusting. I honestly don't know if Chloe will ever totally recover and I will not recover from this for a long time as well. The neglect from martins cages to notify anyone or question anyone that bought these cages makes me sick.

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1150892
07/24/11 06:36 PM
07/24/11 06:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict
angelic4296  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
I'm so sorry Tammy frown My prayers are with you...


Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1152553
07/27/11 12:15 PM
07/27/11 12:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
tammy, hug2
my heart goes out to you. my 3 were effected by this poisonus cage also, i did not lose any gliders but my
mosaic-vanilla is not the same glider either. she hates me and screams/crabs when i try to take her out of her pouch into a bonding pouch, play time she wants nothing to do with me, all this and more since i had to make big changes in her life. i have been trying to bond with her after all this but she is not the happy, bonded glider she once was.
my husband thought she couldnt see well before and after all the treatments but the vet didnt see anything more wrong with her.
it is a nightmare and has been for months.

you have my deepest sympathy. i am sorry for your loss.

take care,
nancy in detroit
p.s. vanilla had to be taken out of her trio and is alone
waiting for a partner i am getting in sept. i hope this helps.
poor baby, our gliders did suffer for this crime by the cage companys.

Last edited by hwh4ev; 07/27/11 12:20 PM.

regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1152570
07/27/11 12:55 PM
07/27/11 12:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
I just simply am heart broken for each of you that have a glider effected by this.

Martin's is responsible for the cages and wire they sold. They can go after the company that manufactured the wire.

Pocket Pets is responsible for the cages they sold as well. They can go after the manufacture of the cages they sold. That manufacture can go after the company that made the wire.

It amazes me that both Martin's and Pocket Pets (more Martin's than Pocket Pets surprisingly because Pocket Pets stepped up fairly quickly and have tried to make things right) are willing to pass the blame to the manufacture. They sold the defective product and are responsible for the consequenses (vet bills, lost glider lives etc).



620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1152577
07/27/11 01:17 PM
07/27/11 01:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
i agree with you and would love to hear of somebody that has lost gliders, etc. has contacted a lawyer to see what
can be done abt. it.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1153111
07/28/11 07:49 AM
07/28/11 07:49 AM

M
Marbles
Unregistered
Marbles
Unregistered
M



I am new here, but have been following this topic for awhile. My babies were affected by an illness as well, but I don't see how the cage companies can be blamed here. Where is the proof that it was the cages that made them ill and not something else?

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1153115
07/28/11 07:55 AM
07/28/11 07:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
The only proof, two things, is all the gliders we know of effected are scattered across the country and the only thing they have in common is the cage. Combined with once the gliders are removed from those cages, they start showing signs of improvement almost immediately.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: fox0r] #1153583
07/28/11 11:17 PM
07/28/11 11:17 PM

C
Crystalg820
Unregistered
Crystalg820
Unregistered
C



I know, Delilah is still the same no change as far as her hind legs go. She does go a** over tea kettle a lot, but it doesn't stop her she hops back up and tries again. She is climbing the curtains in the living room, but honestly she is mostly using her upper body, It seems like she isn't able to grip(so to speak)with her hind legs, except for the bars in her cage. But she is still with me and she is "handicapable" and awfully adorable

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Gizmogirl] #1153610
07/29/11 12:00 AM
07/29/11 12:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Gizmogirl  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
G

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
hug2


Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: ] #1154034
07/29/11 06:29 PM
07/29/11 06:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
Rocky_D Offline
In Pouch
Rocky_D  Offline
In Pouch

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
North Little Rock, AR
Originally Posted By: Marbles
I am new here, but have been following this topic for awhile. My babies were affected by an illness as well, but I don't see how the cage companies can be blamed here. Where is the proof that it was the cages that made them ill and not something else?


We believe the cage company admitted responsability when they replaced the cages without being forced or asked to. You don't have to have proof, just convince a jury that it is more likely the cages than not. Civil law is not the same as criminal law.


Bob n Glenda


:grey: Rocky D

:rbridge: Taz
Re: Update on cages and recall -PART FOUR [Re: Rocky_D] #1161448
08/15/11 03:31 PM
08/15/11 03:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 31
NY
C
cherry0606 Offline
In Pouch
cherry0606  Offline
In Pouch
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 31
NY
It's been about 4 weeks since we moved our existing gliders from the PVC cages to powder coated cages. It is interesting to note that, once I removed them from the PVC cages, they started to drink much less water. Again, not sure how we can prove it, but even though the PVC cages didn't affect my current gliders the same way as they did on the other two gliders we lost, the cages are still affecting them in other ways.

I am just hoping that the water they drank helped to flush out whatever was in their system, and this will be the end of episode for us.

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Last 10 New Topics
CANNED PEAS SAFE?
by Mackenzie314. 12/13/19 09:58 PM
Maple syrup
by evita29. 12/09/19 12:16 PM
Odd "whisker" on back
by 603gliderfolks. 12/09/19 08:26 AM
Diet questions from a newbie
by 603gliderfolks. 12/06/19 09:21 AM
Tika's poop test...
by CKC44. 12/05/19 09:47 PM
Wild baby
by Jarryl. 12/04/19 12:19 AM
glider colony question.
by BYK_Chainsaw. 12/03/19 12:44 AM
1st post is a very sad one... Please help.
by 603gliderfolks. 12/01/19 12:37 PM
Glider threw up after having turkey!
by Lorin1991. 11/29/19 05:42 AM
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