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Jaundice with blood in urine... #18956
03/22/04 07:27 PM
03/22/04 07:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
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sugarlope Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline OP
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I got a call this morning from a family that has two sons from one of my pair, I went with them to the vet so I will tell you all that I know--and am just looking for any more information/suggestions on his situation...

Ozzy is about a year old, and his family noticed that he had orangish colored urine last night when he woke up to play. It continued this morning, and I met them at the vet's office. As soon as I saw him and the urine sample they had collected I was very worried. The urine is RED, there is a significant amount of blood in it and when he popped his head out he was obviously jaundiced (nose, ears, and feet were very obviously yellow).
He is acting completely normal, still eating and drinking, playing and very active and alert (eyes bright and clear, ears up). The vet's concerns were either liver or kidney related (infection or disease), or a blood problem. She was concerned about drawing blood because said she didn't want to take blood if he wasn't producing very well, and it might cause him to become depressed and make recovery more difficult. She put him on .01 cc Amoxicillin, twice a day. They have also increased his fluid intake, starting last night, that she suggested they keep up because he was very slightly dehydrated last night. I also gave the vet a phone number that I found for Dr. Bradley, from Belton, MO (someone had posted and said she was knowledable and would do phone consultations) so she said she would contact her today.

Does anyone have any other suggestions, or...anything? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> I am very concerned.

Thanks~Gretchen

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18957
03/22/04 08:03 PM
03/22/04 08:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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Sycamore Illinois
Did the vet do a fecal? That is usually the minimum of tests run to find a cause/solution. I have heard of giardia causing these symptoms...I hope the vet contacts Dr. Bradley soon!

Karin


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Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18958
03/22/04 08:14 PM
03/22/04 08:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
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sugarlope Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
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Joined: Mar 2002
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in my happy place
I'm sorry--yes she did, I was trying to remember everything and apparently didn't-- she did rule out Giardia (that was one of my concerns also).
~Gretchen

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18959
03/22/04 08:52 PM
03/22/04 08:52 PM

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I hope he feels better soon! Keep us updated on how he is doing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18960
03/22/04 10:44 PM
03/22/04 10:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
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Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Have your friend call her vet in the morning and ask if they were able to contact Bradley.

Make sure they push a lot of fluids into this sick fellow. Also, they need to monitor for any HLP symptoms...or seizure activity.

Sending prayers that this little one will do a complete turn around. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Usually, Baytril is med of choice as it is more of a broad spectrum....especially if a UTI is present. However, I have no idea as to what tests the vet did on this very very sick glider.

The urine could have been collected and sent in for a culture and not sure why the vet did not do one.

Last edited by Judie; 03/22/04 10:48 PM.
Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18961
03/23/04 09:17 AM
03/23/04 09:17 AM

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I'm sorry to hear about this little one. Are there any updates yet?

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18962
03/24/04 03:44 PM
03/24/04 03:44 PM

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Just signed on to this forum today... so I can give you a personal update. Ozzie (the sick glider) belongs to my son. He responded well to antibiotics and as of last night had no visible blood in his urine. He is however still visibly jaundiced -- and now has diarrhea (I'm assuming from the antibiotics). I've left a message for the vet as I'm not sure when its time to worry about the continued jaundice. We'd been checking him every two hours, but today bumped it up to every four hours -- Ozzie had decided he liked all the attention he was getting and was wanting to play every time we checked in!

He's on 0.10cc amoxicillian and getting glider-ade everytime we check in...and has stayed active and alert through everything.

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18963
03/24/04 04:17 PM
03/24/04 04:17 PM

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If the meds are giving him tummy trouble, try giving him about half a teaspoon or so (more if he wants) of yogurt with live cultures after every dose. It should help balance out the natural bacteria in his tummy and hopefully make him feel a little better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18964
03/26/04 03:24 AM
03/26/04 03:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Meds sometimes cause diarreah. And when they do it is because they are messing up the flora in the tummy or intestine.

Suggest a call to your vet. Perhaps he may want to use a different antibiotic or perscribe some Ben-Bac to replenish his tummy with.

Most importantly monitor for Dehydrtion.

Please update thread on his contition. Sending prayers he will be well soon. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18965
03/26/04 11:19 AM
03/26/04 11:19 AM

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Talked with doctor -- said the jaundice can last up to a week so don't worry until Monday. She originally prescribed amoxicillian for 10 days, but since he has diarrhea, she said to stop it on Saturday.

He refused to take meds, glider-ade, treats or dinner last night. I got really worried. He also had no desire to play -- just wanted to sit peaking out of his bag while I held him. Made a Wally-World run to get Ensure, yogurt and juice at 11pm -- the stinker!! When I got back, Ozzy was eating and played on his wheel for a while.

I wonder if he likes all the attention he's getting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18966
03/26/04 12:28 PM
03/26/04 12:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
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the gliders angel Offline
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give the yoplait custard yogurt it has a high calcium ration and nothing artifical in it u dont want to use artifical sweetners it sounds like youur doing whats right.

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18967
03/26/04 04:38 PM
03/26/04 04:38 PM

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sending <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> and prayers your way for a speedy recovery.

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18968
03/29/04 03:22 PM
03/29/04 03:22 PM

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Ozzy's health continually improved over the weekend... back to normal food, schedule, and is gaining weight. Still tinged with yellow, but the vet said that as long as he's improving, she didn't need to see him again.

Yippie!

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18969
03/29/04 03:34 PM
03/29/04 03:34 PM

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Glad to hear he is improving and doing so well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We will keep him in our thoughts that no more nasty vet vists are needed anytime soon! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Jaundice with blood in urine... [Re: ] #18970
05/06/04 04:39 PM
05/06/04 04:39 PM

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Wanted to post an update . . .

Last week Ozzie had blood in his urine again (and was jaundiced)! My son called me at work absolutely hysterical. We made an emergency run to the vet -- after examining him and finding that he had no abdominal tenderness or swollen kidneys (can you believe he held still that long!), she decided that we might have taken him off the antibiotics too soon. She put him back on the amoxicillin -- for 14 days this time. He gets 0.1 cc twice a day. Said to give him all the yogurt he wants each time he takes his meds to avoid the diarrhea. We also were told to push the fluids until he was off the antibiotics. For the first 24 hours we had to check him every three hours around the clock to make sure he was alert & OK.

The good news is that with two doses of the antibiotic, the blood was gone. And, he loves yogurt -- so that hasn't been an issue for him.

I asked the vet about the amoxicillin, since most of the posts I've seen about glider antibiotics were for Baytril. She said she'd been using it for about three years with good success with other gliders. She also said that she had never heard of gliders with this problem, so she was going to be asking an exotic animal specialist if he had any insight -- I'll let you know if she learns anything.

As for Ozzie, he is on his second week of antibiotics now, and you can't tell anything is wrong with him other than the fact that he is still a tad yellow. We've been lucky, because other than a slight energy dip each time he's gotten sick, he's never been extremely ill. Ozzie is our "social glider" so all the extra attention is making him wake earlier in the day so he'll get extra gliderade, treats and attention from his people!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lynn

Ozzy Needs Surgery #22166
06/13/04 12:01 AM
06/13/04 12:01 AM

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My son's glider Ozzy has been sick on and off since March with blood in his urine and jaundice. He's been to a vet regularly. Today we took him to an exotic animal vet several hours from our home for a second opinion. Even though the blood is not visible, he still has blood in his urine and is still jaundiced. She did an ultrasound and it showed problems with his liver. She has recommended exploratory surgery -- and doesn't think he'll survive without it. She thinks he either has a liver problem, has injested something that is still lodged in his stomach, or is suffering from lead poisoning (although we have no idea how he would have gotten lead in his system).

My 15yo son (Ozzy & his brother Chip belong to him) is worried sick -- as am I.

If someone from the emergency vet fund could contact me I would appreciate it. I have tried to send info twice but was told there were server problems. We've spent over $500 to date and the upcoming surgery is expected to run a little over $400.

Lynn

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22167
06/13/04 12:06 AM
06/13/04 12:06 AM

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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"]i am so sorry to hear about your ozzy. i hope things turn out well for him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> [/]

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22168
06/13/04 12:33 AM
06/13/04 12:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
Critter Creations Offline
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Critter Creations  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Rock Falls, IL, USA
I am so sorry this is happening to poor Ozzy. I really hope they are able to make him better. I will relay the post to a person on the EVF, but I would keep trying to send the form in until it works for you or until someone contacts you. I will keep ozzy in my hopes and prayers.


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22169
06/13/04 12:47 AM
06/13/04 12:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,065
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the gliders angel Offline
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pray and i will pray for ozzy too. prayers work miracles

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22170
06/13/04 11:11 AM
06/13/04 11:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,766
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,766
St. Johns, Florida
Good Luck with Ozzy and please keep us posted.
Our prayers and thoughts are with you.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22171
06/13/04 01:16 PM
06/13/04 01:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,354
Lexington, KY
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis
Lucy  Offline
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Posts: 7,354
Lexington, KY
I hope you'll keep us posted regarding this. I'm very curious what your vet will do if exploratory surgery is attempted. What is the goal of the exploration? What remedy can your vet do? It would be exciting if advances in surgery were able to repair liver damage in gliders. I've never heard anyone attempting this, though.

It seems that many gliders either die of liver problems, or liver deterioration shows up in a lot of glider deaths. I wish we knew more about why this is happening. Some things we DO know -- aflatoxins cause abnormalities in the liver, for instance -- but it seems as though many gliders die before their time with liver abnormalities. On the other hand, some gliders have lived quite awhile with liver problems. Gladys was jaundiced for over a year before she died of multiple organ failure.

This is a tough decision on your part. I wish you luck, and hope that you make the best decisions for your family and Ozzy. Please tell us more and keep us posted about Ozzy's progress.



Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22172
06/13/04 04:56 PM
06/13/04 04:56 PM

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This was the first time we met the vet that recommended surgery. After some time to think, I do have lots more questions.

The purpose of the exploratory surgery would be two-fold. First to get a liver biopsy -- his ultrasound showed a large "thickening" of the liver. Secondly, his symptoms are apparently consistent with lead poisoning -- although she wasn't able to get enough blood to run tests on that. Her concern is that Ozzy has injested something that remains in his stomach that is still leaching lead into his system. So during surgery she would be checking the stomach for foreign bodies. Nothing specific showed up on the xray.

Ozzy is acting normal... so surgery seems extreme. However, I don't want him to be so sick that the risks of surgery outweigh the benefits. At this time she said he had a 20% chance of not making it through the surgery. The blood that still shows in his urine using the "dipstick" is not visible to the naked eye.

My other concern is that each time we put him on antibiotics his symptoms appear to resolve. So where is the infection? And how does the infection relate to his jaundice, blood in urine and liver issues?

Any input would be appreciated... This is all very new to us.

Lynn <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/needhug.gif" alt="" />

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22173
06/13/04 05:26 PM
06/13/04 05:26 PM

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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"]i am sorry, but i really do not have the answers to your questions. hopefully somone will be along soon who can help you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> [/]

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22174
06/13/04 06:55 PM
06/13/04 06:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,354
Lexington, KY
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis
Lucy  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,354
Lexington, KY
Those are puzzling symptoms, and I can see why the veterinarian is considering surgery - it doesn't seem typical. It's strange that the symptoms would go away with every round of antibiotics. Keep us posted --



Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22175
06/14/04 01:36 AM
06/14/04 01:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Has the vet run multi tests....blood draws as well as C&S on this glider? I myself would he hesitant about surgery and would only consider exploratory surgery as a last option. Myself...I would seek another openion if this vet has not done the proper blood tests.

I send you best wishes as to whatever your decision. Please keep us updated on this little glider.

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22176
06/14/04 05:18 AM
06/14/04 05:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave
Charlie H  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Sorry, but I just would not allow the surgery. There has to be a better way of determining what is wrong with the glider. I never like to see a glider suffer but to do exploratory surgery seems extreme for people and especially for a glider. If your present vet is frustrated and out of options, I would consult another vet before allowing the operation. Either way is going to be expensive. This is just a layman's opinion.
Charlie H


Rescue & Rehabilation
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Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22177
06/14/04 09:52 AM
06/14/04 09:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
Critter Creations Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
I think I feel the same way as Charlie and Judie do. If I was to do it I would have to be out of every option available. Please know that we are here to support you no matter what decision you make and we would love to hear updates on what is happening. You, your son, and Ozzy are in our thoughts and prayers.


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22178
06/14/04 12:32 PM
06/14/04 12:32 PM

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It looks like your thoughts are running the same direction as mine. When you leave a doctor's office after being told surgery is needed, that's all you think about. But now, two days later, I have more questions than answers -- and I am definately postponing surgery until I'm sure its the best thing for Ozzy. My gut says that the surgery isn't a great idea.

So, here is where things stand right now. I've asked the Kansas City vet (this is the vet I got the second opinion from who recommended surgery) to send both me and my local vet a copy of Ozzy's records. I have an appointment with our local vet tomorrow evening to review everything. I'm putting together a list of questions for her. If I'm missing anything let me know:
1) I still don't understand how jaundice and UTI symptoms go together.
2) Can we run a urine culture & sensitivity so we know what we are treating?
3) If this is a liver issue, why is it responding partially to antibiotics?
5) If this is lead poisoning, is there a non-invasive way to treat for it?
6) Discuss diet/nutritional support/herbal/etc. that may assist his recovery (or at the very least, keep him comfortable).

Anything else? Thanks for the support -- these are very hard decisions... I think Ozzy is tired of all the poking and proding -- he crabs at me whenever I come close to him.

Lynn

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22179
06/14/04 09:28 PM
06/14/04 09:28 PM

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I hope you find the answers you are looking for and don't have to resort to surgery! I'll be praying for little Ozzy!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Ozzy Needs Surgery [Re: ] #22180
06/14/04 11:53 PM
06/14/04 11:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
hey Lynn--I thought of something else along the lines of the antibiotics...I don't know enough about it to know, but would lead poisoning respond to antibiotic treatment either? Sorry I didn't think to ask while you were there.

-gretchen

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