I'm sorry, I simplified it to much. The ill gliders Nadine had was caused by "a bacteria called morganelle morganii" whis is NOT tri-trich.

Yes, this is what it sounds like on her page--does this mean that the tri trich isn't something to worry about? Or is it just that one particular type? If we did DNA testing could we determine if the tri found between one place and the next is of the same benign variety?

We don't know. We have to get someone to figure out which strain it is. So far, no one has. Therefore, no one can say it is or is not benign except for attending vets. As we all are very aware, not all vets are created equal. They are people making educated guesses in many cases. We have a lot to learn still.

It seems there is some focus on Nadine's gliders. She was just one case. In her case trich may have been found, but as Dancing stated, there were other issues that were going on too.

The PCR's that were done on all the gliders were for ONLY the T.Foetus strain of tritrichamonas. ALL of the samples sent in from everyone came back negative (including Nadines). This is NOT T.Foetus so the PCR testing would have given FALSE negatives. Different labs AND vets have seen this tritrich on a wet mount from animals in different states and it HAS been diagnosed as tritrichamonas. The two labs for Nadine (Idexx and Colorado lab), 2 vets in Washington and now the one in Tx (whom has now looked at more than one sample during treatment and although the numbers are decreasing, treatment is still needed)..

A zoologist is helping and expects this to be the T.Muirs strain, IF that is the case, then there is no cure in the other species it effects and is commonly the known cause of "wet tail" syndrome. Flair ups can be treated but it cant ever be cured. The only known way to "break the cycle" is to perform a C-sect so the offspring is not passing through the birth canal where it gets infected. That mother is then culled from the breeding program as is the male that bred her, unfortunately this is not an option in our sugar gliders...

Tritrich is a single celled organism that reproduces by binary fusion (divides itself down the middle). That "offspring" has the exact same DNA AND Drug resistances that its "parent" had. 1% of tritrichs will normally survive treatment, so as soon as 2nd generation you now have tritrichs that have resistance to the initial treatment drug<s>.

Unfortunately, until we know what the EXACT strain is, get a PCR for it and gather more information from these gliders that are undergoing treatment for an extended amount of time. NO ONE can say that their gliders are cured as with Giardia the numbers can be kept low enough for a wet mount not to show those "swimmers"

Thank you ChrisR for explaining further I am going to PM you I have a,question.

I think it also needs to be stated here that one clear test for tri trich does NOT clear one of having it. It's something like a 1 in 8 chance of finding it through a fecal smear. So to be safe one must test MANY times. Testing 8 times does not ensure you find it if it is present as you have a 1 in 8 chance each time you run the test. It is extremely hard to catch on a slide as it moves very quickly.

I'm still curious what mill breeder the strain came from. I don't want joeys going to a home that adopted from that breeder till the tri trich thing is concluded. I'm super paranoid about bugs in my gliders.

I'm sorry as I am working will the mill breeder project to get the mill breeder closed down I can't give a name.

It's highly unlikely that it is just a mill breeder who has tric joeys. It is more likely that many gliders may harbor it but it doesn't always bloom. As you, yourself stated, it is extremely hard to see in a scope. Since there isn't a PCR test to find it that we have found yet this could be an ongoing quest for a very long time.

Many people feel giardia is gone after one or two negative fecal results after treating. Others feel it is still in the animal and may never be "cured". Trich could very well be a similar protozoa. We just don't have conclusive evidence in any direction.

If you don't want to adopt out to anyone who may have trich in their home, you may consider adopting to only newbies who have no gliders. That is the only way to be certain at this point.

Hi everyone I wanted to give some more/updated info on Cab. He went to the dr the 8-as stated in my other topic I was heartbroken that he still has tritrich. I talked to my vet, Cora, and Chris R today to get some more information. In the morning I am going to get him some Benebac antibiotics to help fight the toxicity of Metronidazole & help with the PH balance. We are also going to get a tritrech PCR done ASAP to see if the tritrich can be identified-those results will come back in a few days once it's recieved. If by the 22 (unless identifying the tritrich changes something) he is not better, he will probably be switched to Ronidizol. This hasn't been tried in gliders before, but it worked in other animals, so my vet (and other vets she's confered with) think it's worth the shot.

He is eating/playing/and as active as ever-tonight he has his first barrel of monkeys (my kiddos never play with them rofl ) and is having a BLAST! In the last 2 weeks-from the first vet visit to the second-he gained 13g (from 56g to 69g)!

Good luck with change in meds. Keep up the good work Cab! We're rooting for you!!

Go Cab! :D It's great to know that he's a happy little guy! I'll be keeping him in my thoughts for the best! Hopefully the change in meds will prove to be a breakthrough! *hugs*

glad to hear cab is doing ok.

hope you keep us posted and good luck to you and your
little cab.

take care,
nancy in detroit

Keeping my fingers crossed we get to the bottom of Cabs issue. Lets pray the lab is able to locate whats going on! Glad I could hug your neck today Danielle. You are a strong woman!

That poo should be in route to lab shortly. Then a two day wait after the sample gets there for testing.

Thanks Cora & everyone for the support!

Any updates? Thinking about this little one!!

Cab is doing great, I gave him a ball last nighy that makes noise & after doing the "sniff & jump back" dance he attacked it & was rolling it all over making noises & such lol. One timr he got it stuck, I reached in to help & he made his unhappy noise lol; after about 2/3 min he figured it out As for the lab results I still haven't heard so im hoping sat or mon. Sample didnt get there until Th though (i got it Wed).

I never said it was only a mill breeder that had it Tracy. Stop putting words in my mouth. This isn't LGG. I wasn't inferring anything. I'm paranoid about bugs in my gliders...plain and simple.

This is about Cab and tri trich I dont want it to get locked.

Just a friendly reminder of Rule #4 ~

Cab's PCR results came back, he tested positive for Tritrichonomas (PCR test). However, they can't tell me which strain it is; Knowing for sure though is a start. Now I am looking for a lab that can tell me WHICH strain and not having much luck. If anyone knows such a place please let me know.

Cab is acting and eating normally, I just want to get this cleared up -or find out if it can't be-so that I can get him a friend and know wheteher I can get Chardonnay, Sangira, and Brandy or go to the mill breeder that I got Cab from.

I'm still really confused as to why this is being lumped with the glider ick joeys. What symptoms make it seem like it's the same thing?

Sorry, but this is untrue. What you are explaining is not symptoms of tri-trich, it is symptoms of "ick" which is totally unrelated.

I would really hate for people to get the wrong idea that tri-trich causes the "ick" joey's which we know is not accurate.

Erika, he was passed the age of displaying the ICK symtoms when Danielle got him, although what "clued" towards it was the smallness at 10 weeks old (38 grams) and a shorter than normal coat, as if it had possibly grown back in, also very soft stools (though not diahrrea) more like if you dropped from height onto hard floor it would "cow patty". Then the "unknown parasite" that her vets first reaction was tritrich but when she looked up tritrich in sugar gliders she was unable to find a reference to.
Cab had later fecals done in which his vet felt certain that it was tritrich, and now the quantitive PCR test has come back positive.....

We dont KNOW that its totally unrelated, not until the owners of these ICK joeys send their own samples into Zoologix to be tested on the multi-strain PCR. The PCR that was done prior on ICK joeys was ONLY for T.Foetus, which this strain is believed not to be...

I'm not sure why it was "lumped with ick joeys"(& I'm not trying to give anyone the wrong info) except by what Chris said that we don't know & my vet said that what I described (loss of fur etc) happens with tri-trich-which I KNOW he has because of the PCR results. I can & will paste the positive results here (Chris posted it on LGG too for me).

Chris, Sherri has had ALL tests done, her tests for ANY KIND of parasite was negative.

Loss of hair is NOT a symptom of Tri-trich.

Tri-trich is a parasite, the Ick babies had bacterial issues. Lord knows Sherri spent TONS of money and her vet consulted with several different vets to make sure all the tests that could be done were done.

Its very possible that they could have *both* issues... however, I dont think the ICK is caused from tri-trich.

Danielle, do you have pictures of your glider when it was going through the hair loss phase??

Question: Do we know if gliders normally carry tri-trich? And we are just now finding out about it due to all of this??

Also, I wanted to clarify what I meant by it is not a symptom by hair loss....the kind that Sherri went through was clumping hair loss, not thinning and just disappearing.

Also, can you please post a direct link to the symptoms of tri-trich please so we can all look at it. Im sure you have done it before, but with all this going on, I sure cant remember. (Thanks)

ETA: Here is a page I pulled up looking for symptoms:
This says coarse hair, but not loss...anyway, very interesting read.
http://www.criver.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/rm_ld_r_Intestinal_Protozoa_Rodents.pdf

Chris I just went back to check to see where I sent off for the fecals and it was in fact Idexx and not Zoologix. Esme's necropsy was sent off too Zoo/Exotic Pathology Service (also in CA) and Adara's pouch culture was sent off last Monday to Idexx.

I have printed off the info for Zoologix and will send off a sample to them in the morning.