Beck, your last picture wont pull up for me.

The High Protien Wombaroo powder has been used for many years in Australia and Pockets has made the PML diet several years ago (I want to say at least 7 years). After discussing this diet with her intensively and taking her recommendation and discussing it with my vet, he changed her version a bit, due to me not being able to get some of the different items she is able to feed her gliders. I have been on the HPW for almost 3 years now and couldnt be happier with it.

I do want to point out to everyone this is NOT a thread to start a *My diet is better than Your diet* war, but to bring awareness to everyone that one way of telling if your gliders are getting enough nutrients is by their coat. So if there are diets out there that you think are doing your gliders good, yet they show signs that could tell you different, it would be a good time to talk with your vet and find out what may be done.

Even some of the best diets out there may not be exactly what every glider needs.
I personally feel the HPW Diet is the best for my gliders, just as others feel Priscilla's Diet or BML Diet is best for their gliders. All of these diets are good diets and there are others out there that are equally as good. One thing we have to keep in mind though is different gliders have different needs and it may be possible that even though you are feeding a good diet, it may not be what your glider is in need of.

Thanks, Peggy! I wasn't trying to start a "mine is better than yours" war. It was more of a "and I thought I knew a lot about the different diets out there, but what is HPW and how long has this been out and I didn't know about it" kinda thing. I looked at the PML link ,but it didn't say what the other 50% of the diet should be. WOuld it be the same as the HPW?

try this link Peggy: http://glidinhigh.com/wiggles1_04062007.jpg

Beck, thanks for the new link.

Leisl, that wasnt directed to you, but just wanting to let people know why I started this thread.

Now as for the PML and the HPW, yes, they are two different diet plans that call for different things. You would have to contact Pockets to find out what the other 50% of her diet contains before choosing the PML diet plan as it could throw off all the ratios.

The HPW is listed under the diet links and it has all the things needed to serve this type of plan.

Peggy -
I am concerned now. I do feed BML, but I'm noticing this clumping and separating that you are mentioning, I think. I'm not really sure.

Please comment ....
Thanks!

Valkyrie, keep in mind that sometimes you will see seperation just when they move.

I can not express the importance of FOLLOWING a diet TO THE T.

Many people will make the staple, whether it be BML, PML, HPW, Priscillas or Suncoast fine, but then tend to stray off the diet plan in other ways. Maybe feed the veggies or fruits that are not called for, or feed too many treats to where they dont eat as much of their dinner as possible.

Before people start to just go switching diets, if you are already on a GOOD diet ( HPW, BML, P's diet or a couple others)please check yourself and your habits and what you are feeding with those diet plans, ask yourself if you are off track in any way.

So many times I see people write, well I am feeding this but can I add this to it? If it isnt written than NO. When it comes to treats, as much as we all love the chirping and happiness we hear and see from our gliders, its time to cut back. Thats like giving a child an ice cream sundae each time we see them happy. Whats gonna happen? They are going to get greatly overweight and unhealthy.

If you are not on a diet that has been used for years with great success, please, THAT is when I will suggest to switch over.

And remember, just because a good diet works for one gliders needs, doesnt always mean it is going to work for all gliders needs.

Edited to add: Valkyrie, I just relooked at your pics of your gliders and they do not look like they have the seperation/clumping I am talking about. Please relook at the two pictures I posted of Dasher. You will not only notice the seperation of his fur but also the dullness to his coat.

Peggy- thank you so much for your answer, and for your excellent "educational seminars" that provide me with so much information and so many questions.

I know your comments weren't addressed to me specifically, but I would like to say that I'm one of those that actually follows BML to a T. I very rarely even offer yoggies to my babies, because I'm concerned about the sugar on their teeth! I offer mango about once a month because they love it, but ONLY once a month, because it isn't on the BML list. So, that's why I was concerned about the clumping thing!

But I really want to thank you again for this education, and also for taking the time to reassure me.

Question about fur clumping??? I have noticed some clumping on BoBo, so what I assume after reading the above is that it may be caused from the BML diet he is now on?? Is it safe to say I should switch his diet?? He is a rescue and was previously eating glider chow with yogurt, and fruit. I have had him on the BML for about 2 weeks along with some veggies and fruit and of course his mealies.
ANY Suggestions????

My suggestion to you bobo1 is to keep him on the BML. If you just got him and he was on a poor diet before you need to give his new diet a chance to work. After all the research I have been doing on foods (for all animals)I have learned it can take up to 6-10 weeks for all the toxins from the bad diets to leave an animals system.

I would suggest to follow the bask to basic BML diet to a T and give it a chance to get his proper nutrients back to where they should be. Take pictures of him to watch the progress.

I am in hopes that this will show newbies and the ones that have been around a while that diet jumping/changing is just as dangerous as feeding a bad diet.

I am also hoping that some people out there that DO feed cat food and talk about how good it is for their gliders or that feed their gliders pelleted food or diets that causes such conflicts will post pictures so we can see that indeed thier gliders are getting all the nutrients they should be getting.

Together, having open discussions about these things will only teach us, to make things better for our gliders. After all, that is what it is all about.

Thank you for your reply!!! I will keep him on the basic BML diet just wanted to check...

I love this thread! Thanks for starting it!!

I have a question - let me know if this is off topic and needs it's own post or something.

I feed BML and on my instructions it doesn't list specific fruits/veggies, only says 1 tbsp each. The link that was posted in this thread to the BML recipe had specific veggies and fruits listed.

What is healthiest? I try to just give a variety - peppers, mixed veggies, etc. I'm a vegitarian (like 90% lol) so I just give her a little of whatever we're having as I chop stuff for dinner! Fruits I give things like blue berries (she looooves), mango, apples, peaches, etc.
I heard corn is to be used in moderation, but the recipe with specific fruits and veggies said to feed the mixed veggies daily, including corn?? Hmmm... can someone shed a little light here for me??


As far as the topic at hand, I wish I had good pics and maybe I do at home, I'll have to look. When we got Tony he was SO STANKY and his whites weren't white but yellowish. After what I swear was only a week at most on BML he smelled 1000 times better and his whites were white and he was pretty and soft like Carm

Here's a good one of when I first got Tony - enjoying some of his first BML! I love this pic with his tongue out - notice Carmella totally checking him out! His fur is clumpy and yellowish :-/ His last owner never told me too much about him - but his friend told me "sometimes when he was out of town I'd feed him and he always just told me to give him some watermelon" sooo yeah. He was pretty much not on a diet .
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/explicitbrit/Carmella/Tony0307.jpg

I'll see if I can find more of Tony... In the mean time, here's Carmella aka Carm aka Carmister aka Mel aka Smelly lol

pretty coat:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/explicitbrit/Carmella/DSCN0589.jpg

she looks so soft and cuddly:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/explicitbrit/Carmella/DSCN0590.jpg

Aww tender:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/explicitbrit/Carmella/DSCN0622.jpg

Brittany, EXCELLENT example!! Thank you for that. You have no idea what type of diet he was being fed previously to you getting him?

As for the Veggies with the BML, I know that Bourbon feeds corn, green beans and peas. I believe there is a list of the fruits and veggies that is recommended with the back to basic BML diet plan. As for corn, if you are feeding BML Bourbon has already figured it in with the diet plan so yes, they can eat it, but as with everything else, always in moderation.

I would love to see a Picture of Tony showing his whole coat and what a difference the BML has done for him so far.

These are exactly the type of pictures I am hoping people will post to be able to show the newbies and others that have been here a while, what a good diet will do for your gliders and the importance of having them on a good, well balanced meal.

Peggy, Tony died a few days/weeks after she got him

OH MY!! Im so sorry

I feed all of our gliders BML. They love it!

Here are some pics:
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/PixTrix6/?action=view&current=IsisMoonshadow1.jpg
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/PixTrix6/?action=view&current=IsisMoonshadow2.jpg
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/PixTrix6/?action=view&current=IsisMoonshadow1-1.jpg
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/PixTrix6/?action=view&current=Mooattopoftent.jpg

I follow the recipe of the BML to a T, but I dump everything in the blender and let the blender run for 5 minutes. It makes the BML mix frothy and light. My gliders love it made this way.


Jen

I have my glider on the HPW diet and I wasn't sure if there are specific fruits and veggies I should be feeding her, and if so what are they?

I do not know Tony or his owner but it looks and sounds like he had a good home and owner.

Well I feed the PML diet and some of my gliders have the clumping and some don't. I have too many gliders to upload pics to, so here is a link where you can see all of my gliders: http://www.luckyyou-gliders.com/mygliders.htm

Awww Jen your babies are so cute!! I think I am going to try "frothy" BML next time I make a batch!
Thanks Elizabeth - no worries Peggy! It's true, he was only with us like 3 (ish) weeks and he was outwardly sick as soon as he was gone pretty much! It was very sad - but in the end he was MUCH better off spending his last bit of life with us than with the guy that had him before us. I'm glad he had the chance to live a GOOD glider life! The previous owner "hated it" and from what I can tell he really did mostly feed him watermelon . I don't know anything else that was given but it certainly wasn't in the way of a diet. Probably just fruits and veggies as they had them around or something - if that. I didn't find out about the "watermelon diet" until after I had taken him to the vet just before he died. I was LIVID when I found out!! I mean I can see just not knowing they have such specific needs and being a little underknowleged, but common sense should tell you NO animal can live on just watermelon as a staple - not to mention an exotic animal. My vet said a suggie on watermelon is comparable nutrition wise to just feeding your dog bread as a staple. Turns out healthwise from his long term "diet" he was already gone when we got him.

When I got him he STUNK. I mean SO bad - I don't know how the previous owner lived with it! The first night with us I gave him a clean fresh pouch to sleep in, and by the next morning I took his and Carm's pouches out and I could tell which was his and which was Carms just from SMELLING from like 3-4 feet away. NASTY! I'm not even exagerrating (sp?) the next morning his newly clean pouch stunk significantly less! Within a week no smell. Well, normal smell, not stankyness! I will try to find some good pics of him afterwards - his coat really perked up! Just like you said with the coat parting - side by side with Carmella we knew he wasn't healthy just by compairing their fur!

OK, Peggy, thanks!
My girls are on the Suncoast and I follow it as it says. Here's my two. I see clumping I think. I never thought their diet was THE best, but it's proven and that's what they ate the best out of Suncoast, BML, and Priscilla's. Haven't tried PML or HPW. Maybe it's worth trying.

My guys get BML, but probably too many treats. I am a total pushover. I promise to do better after reading this thread. Here are a few pictures, but I don't know how good they are:

Lennie:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q167/mlysell/Lennie.jpg

Jynxie: (who is also my avatar)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q167/mlysell/JynxiesNewWheel.jpg

Karl: (My favorite glider and my baby - but don't tell the others!)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q167/mlysell/Karl.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q167/mlysell/IMG_0111.jpg

And Jynxie on HER wheel - she won't share!
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q167/mlysell/JynxieJumping.jpg

I once again want to thank everyone for taking part in this thread. I really believe we are all becoming more aware of different things to watch for. I have found a few more photos of before and after pics. The following is of Babbax (My special boy from Bourbon, he was Baybe's last joey) and Princess (His special wife that came to me through CyndieKB)
Now mind you, when they were on the Darcy diet, I really thought they were healthy. I mean look at Bax, everyone said how big he was. He was weighing in at 216 at that time. Today he weighs 186. Total different coat condition and coloring in just a matter of weeks!

I say we should start a diet Awareness Month for Gliders!!

Peggy GREAT TOPIC.

I see a few things that others may not have noted in this thread.

You said there were things you could not get that Pockets could. SO, you worked with your vet and made changes for YOUR gliders and you. I see people all the time saying they feed *PML* well what I am wondering is since the mix posted is only 50% of the diet and Pockets never listed the other 50% of the diet, what are people really feeding? It is not the complete diet. I understand with all the diet controversy and the fact she gets items we don't have access to why she hasn't posted the rest of her NATURAL diet.

I don't want it to sound like I am saying you shouldn't feed PML because that isn't the case, if the person feeding it has talked to Pockets and happens to be feeding what she does than that is fine. However just creating your own other version....without discussing it with a vet you can't really say it is the PML. Just like the people who feed BML WITH CHANGES is not feeding BML unless you have talked to Bourbon and had her help make a change if needed or under the advice of a vet for the gliders specific needs.

Again, this is a great topic and fits in to all the diet types. If you make a change with out making sure the changes you have made will come out to the right ratios... Bottom line you have an unproven diet and risk your pet.

Some food for thought.

Just so you know I feed the basic BML and have since the day I got Stitch. Every rescue is put on BML and joeys are weaned to it as well. I need easy and uncomplicated.

Notice the slight clumping of fur in this picture of the Koda on PML


Now I was not happy with this diet cause I could not get them to eat fruits and veggies on it. We just switched to Priscilla's and I've noted improvement already, except of course Kieko's fur has been a little clumpy since her bath the other day(i'll go try to get a pic. now)

Kitkatt, Cyndie brings up a good point in the post above you. If you dont mind me asking, if you were feeding the PML diet followed the way that Pockets states to make it, what else were you feeding with it for the other 50% of the diet?

Although Pockets has a WONDERFUL diet, she does not list the entire diet plan on what the other 50% should consist of. If everyone is following that diet, how can one follow it to a T unless you are contacting her (which I encourage ya'll to do, as she is a VERY wise person when it comes to gliders)and feeding the SAME EXACT ingredients she is feeding. She has had GREAT success with her diet, however, once again, I know she feeds things we just dont have. Therefore, I do not see how one can feed her diet plan accordingly.

I for one would LOVE to be able to offer some of the things she offers and thanks to her, in the spring time, my gliders also get flowers that I never knew prior to talking to Pockets, they could have.

Once again I will stress the fact, if you are choosing a diet plan, and you are wanting great results as others have had with it, it MUST BE followed to the T.

I dunno if anyone has still been watching this post but I had a thought...
Recently our male Tork had to wear an ecollar... and when wearing it his fur got really clumpy like some of the pictures shown, but when i would let him out of the collar for a supervised grooming session, it would fluff back up.
And because he was seperated from his girlfriend, who he grooms also, her fur was clumpy. So, could diet be the only reason their fur gets clumpy?

I wouldnt think so
IF there fur wasnt clump fur before and they were on the same diet before.
Maybe because he isnt grooming her anymore

Yea same diet as before their seperation and collar... i feed bml

I wouldn't think it was a diet issue but rather the ecollar. You might contact Jen (xfilefan) or Suz (suzsugargliders) about this as they have alot of experience with gliders in ecollars.

I think the issue in your case is definately the use of the e-collar and also the stress to the gliders of being seperated.

While in the collar, the glider cannot groom himself. I would groom mine that were in the collars by using a small toothbrush with soft bristles and brushing their coat for them and then use a soft wet rag to clean them up after eating since they love to fling their food even in the collar.

For the female with the fur issues - I would think she isn't accustomed to having to groom herself as much since the male would groom her and she is probably quite stressed at being seperated from her mate. I would spend lots of time with her and well and you may want to help groom her as well. If her grooming issues don't clear-up you may even want a vet visit to rule out any possible health issues.

I'll be back with pictures of my gliders

First my boys

I got them at approx. 7 months oop on a diet of canned fruit cocktail, canned corn, and bird seed

Petrie and Scrat first home

Then they were switched onto Priscilla Price's diet but Petrie gained considerable weight on it (which he still has) and both gliders were having constipation issues.

Petrie and Scrat on Priscilla Price's diet

They were switched onto BML before it went back to basics.

Petrie and Scrat on BML

Now they have been on WHP for about 5 months. They are now approx. 4 years old.

Scrat on WHP

Petrie on WHP