I'm not sure how much his lab results will help this-but my vet is willing to call Peggy's with them. I'll give her the number tomorrow.

Riker had the T4 run through a lab in Florida that specializes in these on exotics and small mammals, according to my vet. She is awaiting some replies from AU also. His test results for thyroid hormone:

Below minimum detectable levels.



I now need to decide whether we go for a trial of a drug called Thyroxine with him.
Regardless of what normal levels should be, apparently he has almost none, and that could very well account for his symptoms. I'll be discussing with her in the morning what the risks and such are associated with it. I haven't even asked what it might cost yet.

Here are some links:

The T4 test (humans):

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/aha/aha_thyroxin_crs.htm

about thyroid hormones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid_hormone

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-thyroxin.html

and here's the search results ( I hope ) that has a number of other links I haven't had a chance to look at yet:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=na...amp;q=thyroxine

Peggy, I also need you to PM me or post Dr. Tristan's contact info, so I can give it to Dr. Harris.

Jen,
It's interesting that his levels were so very low they couldn't even detect them - poor little guy. At least it takes the "guesswork" out of it. I'd be inclined to give a trial run on the thyroxine, but ultimately, the decision is yours. When my regular vet gets back from maternity leave, I'm hoping to talk her into running the test on Mareki. She's due back in September, so that gives me a couple of months yet Right now, we're concentrating on getting her "mating" wound healed up though, so we really can't do bloodwork right now anyway...
Thanks for the information and the update.

Malignant hyperthermia is a well-known complication of anasthesia in humans. Luckily rare, but can be fatal. I'm glad he's better.

Thanks, schlep, so am I

Well, since we had to take Troi in this morning for a UTI (it just never ends, lol) discussed the Thyroxine for Riker at the same time.

First a note on Troi: Cole (my son) called me yesterday and said "Mom, Troi just came out of the pouch-2pm) and hissed when she peed. Then she ran into the back corner of the cage and was licking at her cloaca. She isn't SMing, but looks uncomfortable". I made an appointment for 9 am this morning, and we ran a urinalysis, that came back with white blood cells and a little blood in the urine, and a pH of 7.5 (glider's urinary pH should be between 6.5 and 7, with 7 being the high end of normal). So now she's on amoxicillin for 14 days So she's being taken care of.
On a side note to the side note-I'm SO proud of my 17 year old son for having the presence of mind not only to be observant, but to call me immediately and bring it to my attention Since I wasn't home, and had to get to bed before work yesterday, I easily might have missed it until the weekend.

Anyhow, back to Riker. I have his Thyroxine-only $18.00 for I think at least a few month's supply so not bad on price. vet said he has essentially a non functional thyroid, based on the test results. I haven't started him on it yet-I'm going to wait until I'm off Mon/Tues nights so I can watch him for possible side effects. vet says if he gets jittery or starts dropping weight fast to stop and bring him back-in the meantime I'm looking into noted side effects in other animals with this drug. He'll need to take it every day for the rest of his life.

There wasn't enough for a blood count or anything else with his sample (as hard as his veins were to locate, I guess we're lucky we got a sample), but they did get a calcium on him. He's a little low (which his lack of appetite could be contributing to, and I'll work on getting that up). He came out at 7.6 mg/dl-vet says she wants to see between 8 and 11 mg/dl for a glider-so it's not bad, but needs some improvement.

I also found out a way to extend the life of a couple antibiotics once mixed, such as any of Troi's leftover amoxicillin. Apparently I can freeze it in syringes, and it will stay viable for up to 6 months, instead of being no good in 2-4 weeks. She said freezing it isn't going to hurt for that period. After that it needs tossed out, but that is useful info.

So guess I'll update when we try it out, and see how it goes, and update on any adjustments (up or down in .02 increments) and let everyone know what happens as we go. She's still waiting for replies, and does intend to call Dr. Tristan. Nervous work, breaking entirely new ground with these guys!

Jen,
I hope Troi is feeling much better soon

As for Riker, please keep me posted - you already know how important this thyroid subject is to me Thanks for the continued updates and information

As far as guesswork goes, tho-we're still doing that. All mammals need SOME, but we have no idea how much yet-and if we can't get or approximate that information, we'll be going on symptomology and how well he does, lol. I gather we'll need to repeat bloodwork at intervals to check on things as well-that will give us some numbers then, but as to how 'average' they'll be for a glider...

I know this is important to you, Suz-guess this is just God's way of trying things out on one, lol. It's just chance this came up when it did, so to speak. Or maybe not. I'll find out all I can, and update in as much detail as I can get, as the info becomes available.

BTW, his meds are lavender colored, lol.

Jen I hope Troi feels better soon.
Isn't it amazing ~ we think these kids do not hear us when we talk about the gliders and how important it is to notice illnesses and get treatment asap. Hum I think it is selective hearing!!! Nice job Cole!

Also Jen you amaze me in your research and commitment to not only your own gliders but ALL gliders. Thank you for all you do.
I hope Riker does well on his new meds and they work. Please give him some lovins from CT.

he'll be in my prayers, i sure hope he gets much better fast for you! Oh and i just can't help it but he resembles my skittles alot, ofcourse she's a gal, but he reminds me of her!

Jen, I just talked with Dr.Tristan. He has not heard from your vet as of yet. I explained to him what was going on or from what I knew of anyway from what you have posted. I told him you were starting on the Thyroxine with Riker. He wants your vet to contact him as soon as possible. He stated he would be hesitant to administer that just yet as the reason for the T-4 numbers to be so low or not there at all more than likely have a LOT to do with the metabolism of the glider. Since gliders do not have a high metabolism the thyroid counts would probably not even register.

He is going to start to do a broad search and make some calls, but did want me to tell you although he respects how very much you love and trust your vet, to at least have her call him as he is concerned.

Peggy-thanks for that. I actually gave him his first dose last night after a ton of thought whether to at all-at 1/10th what it said on the bottle-because I don't know how they'll react, we don't know what side effects to watch for in these guys, etc. And my instinct was screaming it was too much. I'll call my vet this afternoon and ask her to call him asap. He (Riker) didn't have any noticeable effects, unless you count being a little chirpier than normal which could be coincidence yet.

I also got a pic from when I put him in his cage to eat last night-about 2 hours after meds, and he sat there deciding between food, or gliderade, food, or gliderade, and just being a character, lol. As usual, his food was barely touched this morning, but you can see what a round little guy he is, despite that.

You could also have him call her if he's willing-I know she was very busy Sat. when we were in, but she is in the office every day except Wed. Dr. Harris: 801-485-4736.

Now off to do an overdue update on Binx.

Dr Tristan and Dr Harris have spoken to each other and discussed this, along with whether the tests are even valid in this species. They do produce it-all mammals do, and his symptoms are consistent with deficiency. Whether it actually can show up on the test won't be known until it does, or repeated attempts with healthy gliders fail.

So we are going forward with the assurance it won't hurt him to try it. (I asked twice, lol, and she said she promises it won't harm him) Riker is beginning a sort of 1 glider clinical trial, lol. He had a dose this morning. We should start seeing some results, or not, in 2 weeks.

So scary! I am so grateful for the information though! Thank you! Hope you and Riker and Troi are doing better!