I used to feed BML - Bourbon's Modified Leadbeater's , but changed several years ago, after listening to my veterinarians advise & a few others I had spoken with.
Thought I would share an Australian product I have been using for several years now in my "PML" 'Pockets Modified Leadbeaters' It is the absolute closest Pockets can come to the original Leadbeaters mix.
The Leadbeater's mix was created in 1971 by Des Hackett & was created from a modified sugar glider food. Mr Hackett was the very first person to sucessfully breed the Leadbeater's possum in captivity & the first Leadbeater's possum was born in March 1974 directly under his care. He had a successful colony for eight years & then transferred all of his growing colony to the Zoological Board of Victoria (The Royal Melbourne Zoological Gardens & The Healesville Sanctuary). (I noticed on a large Florida <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> breeder's website, who definately has this info incorrect). These beautiful marsupials are highly endangered
Wombaroo High Protein Supplement was mentioned on GC when the original creator of Glider Central owned this board. She & I had several conversations online & off, about Wombaroo HP being imported into the USA, anyways I bugged & bugged my Wombaroo USA importer (poor guy) until I recieved it & he is quite aware of "PML" lol
I find it interesting & didn't notice any selenium in Pricilla's vitamins, Reptical or Herptivite - among other things! My understanding is Selenium is extremely inportant to marsupials!
Many of the CG scientists out there (lol) may be interested in looking at the vitamins & amounts in this product. I will say that the professionals I have shown this product to thru the years, were quite impressed with it, & surprised at the lengths I went to get it - including my Michigan exotic veterinarians!
KK - Peggy I only use Egglands Best - Organic eggs, among what I already shared with you
Thanks Mikey - Just want you as well as other's to know they have options! I bet this appears on many <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> breeders websites soon!
[:"blue"] According to the information recently posted in another thread, there is a little selenium in Priscilla's supplement. Whether it is enough or not is anyone's guess!!! [/]
I thought about using this very stuff in a diet of some sort, but Geoff, who runs Perfect Pets said that there was some tax reason that he couldn't sell me the HP Wombaroo on a regular basis. Since I'm in the same state as he is, I would need a tax license?! Maybe you can shed some light on this Pockets?
Either way, he did sell me one order of stuff to keep me happy and I used the HP Wombaroo and my gliders did like it.
Re: Pockets Modified Leadbeater's
[Re: ]
#43832 04/22/0505:57 AM04/22/0505:57 AM
Have to get back to you on that question -thats news to me! I moved to TX from MI, not that long ago & have been purchasing it from him for several years, but I will ask him tomorrow. I can get it from him & send it to you (lol) if you would like!
Wanted to mention one more thing - not to start trouble but, it really bothers me to see the Wombaroo Milk Replacers on others websites & the ridiculous amounts they charge for it!! The <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s are the ones to suffer with this practice & it makes me angry - maybe I should start selling it!
I am SOOOO happy you finally came out and said something Pockets! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />
I have been learning from Pockets for almost a month now, and let me tell you, there are SO MANY interesting new things I have learned and tried and shared with a few others and my gliders are loving me for it.
I like many have tried over and over and over again with the BML, and never had any luck especially with Bear and Pepper. Pockets told me about this high protein wombaroo and I have been bugging her to pieces about it ever since!! Ordered it right away, and I can tell you, Honest to God my gliders LOVE it! I shared with a few others as I said, and some others have ordered it as well....matter of fact I believe one person may have bought them out of their supply for the time being?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />
Now, there are a couple that are trying it now, but do keep in mind, we are approaching a full moon and for some reason, many gliders do not eat as much or anything during this time.
I am telling you all, Pockets has a WEALTH of information on gliders, their well being, their natural habitat information as well as their captivity information and I am so glad that she is back out here and willing to share it with us.
If you visit any of the AUSTRALIAN links about gliders and wombaroo, you will see, many use this in replacement of the High Protein Baby Cereal for their leadbeaters mix. There was also another one that I happened across (forgot to save the link though sorry) that also added Bee Pollen to the mix.
Ok, I will shut up now...just wanted to point out that I am so happy that you are finally coming in and sharing with all Pockets. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Ok you have my attention Pockets. Your links look great with only one problem...How do I purchase it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I would love to try something like that or maybe get the recipe for PML. PM me if need be but I would love to get ahold of this stuff so I can try it.
One more question. The first link shows the info about increasing to the high protein diet during mating season and then decreasing to the maintenance diet after babies have been weaned. Is that something that is important to their health or do we typically hold to the high protein diet all the time as we tend to allow them to breed year round? I don't currently have any breeders but if there is something out there that will better maintain their health I am interested in learning more. Thanks
Re: Pockets Modified Leadbeater's
[Re: ]
#43835 04/22/0511:49 AM04/22/0511:49 AM
Hi I do decrease the amount of Wombaroo HPS I feed thru the year but I certainly am no expert in the diet area! lol
It makes sense that our <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s requirements change!
This product gives <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> care-takers many more options & I would recommend talking with your <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> veterinarian about the needs of your <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s
Can be ordered thru Geoff (I know he has run out & has an order in route from the Australian Wombaroo Co) -
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> .....Notice the amount of selenium in the Australian's Wombaroo - I know the lack of selenium in the USA diets, has been a concern with marsupials health
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] Pockets: Selenium is a so-called trace element and exists in nature in only extremely low concentrations. If I am not mistaken, it is poisonous in higher concentrations. According to the link you furnished, the Wombaroo has 150 grams of selenium per kilo of material. In the few supplements that I've seen that do have selenium, the concentrations are measured in parts per million(ppm). Could be wrong; but I suspect that the information in your link is wrong. Do you have a Wombaroo label you could look at to confirm the value?? I'm guessing that the value should be 150 [/] [:"red"]MILLIGRAMS[/] [:"blue"] rather than grams??? [/]
Thanks Pockets! Just wondering if you happen to know how this might compare to the Nekton for sugar gliders that has been suggested for use here. I seem to be having success with the Nekton but have only used it for a short period. It is fairly expensive though. I don't know how the prices compare exactly as I don't know how much I am getting for the price on the wombaroo diet. But price is a factor for me as well as health though the health is going to be first for me. I am just curious as to how they compare if you know. Thanks a bunch!
Man your sharp Randy - please come visit me anytime - need your smarts here! Yes pulled one of my Wombaroo HPS - 150ug/kg
Will contact Geoff/Wombaroo & let them know of your discovery - Thanks so very much! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> Am going to try to scan my actual package & let you have a better look - this is the older packaging tho
Yes I have posted the Nekton Sugar Glider on GC also a few times & I do use that also - in my opinion they are the very best to offer my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s, & I use their bird vitamins for my 19 yr young Goffin's cockatoo - Nekton is known for their wonderful products!
The Wombaroo High Protein Supplement can be used as desired for an extra protein source - just sprinkle a tiny amount on fruits.
It depends on the diet you are feeding as the amounts given of the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement - check with your veterinarian. The Wombaroo HPS cost $10 plus shipping & that is for 250 g NET. Hope this helps
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Pocket I noticed you said you were in Michigan. I am also in Michigan and I have a vet but I dont know how much I like her. She seemed to know about gliders but I just didnt feel that comfortable with her. I was wondering if you could give me the name of your vet. Thanks in advance!
Hey thanks Pockets that does help. I will compare the prices when I get home as I can't do it at work. I do know the container of Nekton I got cost around $30 but don't remember how much that was for.
Anyway, is the Wombaroo product just for additional protein or does it include vitamins also? Do you use that in combination with the Nekton for your breeders?
Thanks for all your help! I am looking at a thread about the vitamin question in this forum as well and it is really neat to find out all this additional info. I now feel as though I can truly make an informed decision instead of trying to guess what will be best for my kids.
I no-longer reside in Michigan, but live in Central Texas now & love it - better to grow Aussie flora here! I still stay in contact with my MI vets -
Cedar Creek Veterinary Clinic 2295 Williamston Rd Williamston, MI 48895 Phone - (517) 655 4906
My favorite is Dr Derek Nolan - but Dr Wayne Beasley as well as his wife are wonderful! Many many people travel from upper MI the - UP, as well as out of state to bring there exotics - Black Palm Cockatoo's came in one day - from the UP, when I was there - just as an example. Dr beasley is a reptile specialist & extremeley knowledgeable. They will help with your vet - I am sure - if you are not located in Central Michigan
Pockets, I'm also interested in ordering. I would like to know more about your PML as well. This is off topic a little but I am feeding Judies's BML and before that BML. I have only had to make either one three times so I am relatively new at being a glider parent. My question is about my gliders' coats under their bellies. Their coats are not white but a yellowish color. My question, what is the color of your gliders' coats under their bellies? Will this help my suggies' underbelly coats be whiter? If this is too far off topic you can PM me.
Sweet! I'm so glad you decided to share this info Pockets! Peggy has been feeding it to me second hand & my kids are now all on PML as well! I'm looking forward to learning more!
I too would be SUPER interested in finding out how to get ahold of this! I'd really like to find something simpler than BML that they like... I've tried ZooKeepers and Eucalyptus diet and they turn their noses up at both of them. I'm VERY interested in sampling this food....
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> I no-longer reside in Michigan, but live in Central Texas now & love it - better to grow Aussie flora here! I still stay in contact with my MI vets -
Cedar Creek Veterinary Clinic 2295 Williamston Rd Williamston, MI 48895 Phone - (517) 655 4906
My favorite is Dr Derek Nolan - but Dr Wayne Beasley as well as his wife are wonderful! Many many people travel from upper MI the - UP, as well as out of state to bring there exotics - Black Palm Cockatoo's came in one day - from the UP, when I was there - just as an example. Dr beasley is a reptile specialist & extremeley knowledgeable. They will help with your vet - I am sure - if you are not located in Central Michigan
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Pockets you know you have to come back to Michigan and meet me ok?
Pockets, you ought to write a book! You have so much valuable information it would be much easier to look it up in a book than try to look for it all over the board. What do you think? <crossing my fingers!>
Jen Thanks! I really think I would love to, so many of my friends have published marsupial works - maybe they will help me (lol) Think it would sell? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/read.gif" alt="" />
Kristopher Maybe downline - but if you get the chance come for a visit where it is really warm - I hear you have snow on it's way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tantrum.gif" alt="" /> Do contact Cedar Creek as I am quite sure you & your <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s will be in wonderful hands!
Yeah thats where I take my sugar gliders. UGH we are suppose to get a total of 13 inches this weekend <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tantrum.gif" alt="" />
Amanda, Sil & Melinda If you have a specific question please email me.
I use the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement in the original Leadbeater's mix (Taronga Zoo) & this mix can be located here in the links on diets.
I would advise anyone interested, to copy the Wombaroo links I have posted & take these to your veterinarians for opinions on this product. Wombaroo High Protein Supplement is just another option available & I wanted to show it to everyone here.
I do lessen the honey a tad bit, bottled water only, & use organic eggs (Egg-Lands Best Organic), also am a tad bit concerned with a possibilty of too much cholesterol over time, so I use a little less egg yolk until I can locate & learn more credible information. I have been attempting to make contact with Des Hackett or someone quite knowledgable with his personal unplublished diet studies - but so far not much luck - working on it tho <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
Thanks Pockets - So just to understand, the HPS is used as the viatmins in the original Leadbeaters? Does anyone have the link to the "original" Leadbeaters? All I seem to find is everyone "modified" version. Do you also use the Small animal food as a supplement to Leadbeaters?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> I have a friend in Round Rock that I come visit often -- I'll have to look you up next time I'm in town (that is if RR is Round Rock - lol). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />
What's that? A BOOK authored by POCKETS? Advanced copies availble for first printing download only US$20???!!!???
To where do I send the check, or do you take Visa/Mastercard/American Express?
Pockets, I never seen any posts from you, but every single one of the people I have come to trust the most in regard to Glider care have sounded off about you in this thread, so I'm gonna toss my hat in the ring and follow blindly and attentivly. I have a friend who owns a small publishing company in Conneticut, I'll hook you up. Thanks for sharing all you know.
Maybe they should have a new Avatar name just for you, like the Glider Guider.......
Re: Pockets Modified Leadbeater's
[Re: ]
#43859 04/23/0509:25 AM04/23/0509:25 AM
For those who asked. Here is the recipe for Leadbeaters from the Toronga Zoo in Australia. I got it directly from them a year ago. The amounts are for squirrel gliders. They reduce the amount given for sugar gliders by about 1/2.
Leadbeaters Mix (Toronga Zoo, 2004) Warm Water 900ml Honey 900ml Hard Boiled Eggs (shelled) 6 High Protein Cereal 150grms (2 ½ Cups) Sustagen 6 tsp
Method:
1. Measure out warm water into a 2 litre jug, add honey & mix together until honey has melted. 2. Blend eggs in blender until creamy. 3. Combine sustagen & cereal in a dish. 4. Add 1 teaspoon honey/water mix to blender & blend until creamy. 5. Add dry ingredients & ½ of the honey/water mix to the blender. 6. Add some of the honey/water mix (not all), through the lid opening until the mix is sloppy. 7. Blend for at least 1 minute. 8. Slowly add the remaining honey/water mix until lump free (keep light pressure on the blender lid to prevent leakage).
The daily diet includes: 1. 10 mL of Leadbeaters mix 2. 2 Tbl. of a mixture of equal amounts of apple, banana, kiwi/grape and rockmelon/pawpaw. 3. 1 heaping Tbl. of a mixture of equal amounts of carrot and sweet potatoe and 1/2 the amount of corn. 4. 2 kangaroo cubes, 2 eukanubra kibble, 1/2 tsp fly pupae, and 1 Tbl. shelled egg (on Wednesday) 5. One of the following "extras" per day: Mung Bean (monday), coconut (tuesday), fig (etc.), sultana, alfalfa, grape, honeydew 6. Fresh browse (native tree limbs, flowers, etc)
My understanding is that Sustagen is the same thing as Ensure, and that pawpaw is the equvalent to papaya.
Yes, Pockets, please do post your recipe <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> ~Lynn
Re: Pockets Modified Leadbeater's
[Re: ]
#43861 04/23/0511:34 AM04/23/0511:34 AM
Hi Pockets! This sounds like wonderful news! I would be interested in trying your PML diet for a little while. I have been making CML (like BML only with Vionate and Rep-Cal with no VIT D3 -- based on a veterinarian's recommendation); however, sometimes my gliders eat it, and sometimes they don't.
Pretty please -- would you post your PML? Thanks!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
(I am still tweaking this, as I have a couple of concerns - so bear with me - but this is what I have been using)
"Pockets Modified Leadbeater's"
Warm Water - 450ml (bottled only) Honey - 400ml Shelled-boiled eggs - 2 (egg-land's best organic) Wombaroo High Protein Supplement - 30 grams
I mix the warm water & honey, then add the eggs blend & then add the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement & blend
I am able to change the protein level very easily by adding or subtracting amount in "PML" & I do (will explain at later date)
NOTE: Wombaroo High Protein Supplement contains more than "TWICE" the protein as High Protein Cereal so less than half is needed
I would definately recommend talking with your <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s veterinarian before changing to any new diet addition & before feeding - the above "PML" included
Shaun - How sweet & I will definately keep your generous offer in mind! Have a pc guru friend moving to TX soon so I think a website isn't to far away! If you look around in pasts posts, my name should pop up every here & there a bit, as I have been here since early 2000 - older than dirt (lol)
Too knind Pockets. Remember, this is the Digital Age. All you have to say is" I want a website" and a little PC Genie will pop outta the wodwork with an invoice for about $30 and from there on out it costs next to nothing for the hosting, and all you need to do is the writing. I can get you on the web for about that, with secure server and webpay for product sales, and an FTP for uploading docs and books etc., not to mention the website development tools that are available for free. I don't do much on site building, and although Al Gore invented the internet, I build it( the fiber transmission systems for traffic, anyway!) so have access to lots of interesting people for assistance. Just ask....
Re: Pockets Modified Leadbeater's
[Re: ]
#43868 04/24/0511:22 AM04/24/0511:22 AM
1 teaspoon per glider, I do freeze it sometimes, but usually best to mix half the amount & keep in fridge - will keep for 2 weeks in fridge.
"Can be stored for up to two weeks" This is also stated with the original Leadbeater's (Nectar mix) in 'Australian Mammals:Biology and Captive Management' Stephen Jackson 2003
LOL Pockets! I've been offering 1 T per glider, no wonder they won't eat it all! Too much Mommy! I've also noticed that it has increased their appetite for fruit. They never used to eat their fruit - wouldn't even touch it! Now they eat at least half! Course, it could have something to do with the full moon as well.
I use a tiny bit of Neocalglucon weekly, but Wombaroo High Protein Supplement has vitamins in it, as well as I use Nekton Sugar Glider & it has vitamins - have to be careful as too many vitamins is NOT GOOD!
I would recommend talking with your veterinarian! Depends on what else you are feeding your <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s
I also provide Milk thistle extract 3 times a week & use this as a preventive
Ty for the reply. Haven't got my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> I'm still debating on what diet to use >.< oh so many choices. Plus it's hard to find one that can be followd exact when in the UK.
Pockets - Are you talking about the insectivore fare type food? If so, that's too bad! I saw it in the pamphlet Geoff sent with my high protien supp & I was really looking forward to checking it out! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Pockets - thanks so much for the info. I talked to my vet yesterday about it and he is anxious to see the HPS when I get it. I have to call Geoff in the AM to give CC info so he can ship. Pockets, I think you should start selling the stuff!! or at least get a commission - lol. I'm going to start my senior pair out on it and see how they do then hopefully switch everyone over evenutally. I'm really excited about it. Mine will eat BML but they just don't seem excited about it. Sometimes their plates are empty and sometimes they barely touch it.
Pockets - I noticed you mentioned Nekton Sugar Glider, I use Nekton Tonic R which my gliders absolutely love. Is the Nekton Sugar Glider new? I was told that it was the Tonic R repackaged - do you know if this is true also?? - My partner and I are opening an exotics shop in the UK very soon and I want to stock only what I consider to be the best glider products - Nekton is on the shortlist, but I would really value your opinion.
Good question! I don't think so but, just do not know. I have never used Tonic R - but have used several of Nekton's products for my 19 yr young cockatoo & have used Nekton Sugar Glider for a few years now. I posted on GC but it was quite awhile ago - I think others here thought I was referring to Nekton Lori!
Here are a couple links (you probably already have) Nekton Sugar Glider (The Nekton website has posted this on their website as a new product for several years now) lol
I got my HPS today and will be mixing up a batch this week-end. Can someone convert the ML and grams to cups and tablespoons so I can check my calculations? (seems like a lot of honey - lol). Also, is it going to be the consistancy of a protien shake (more liquid than thick like BML)? Thanks! Just want to make sure I'm using it correctly.
Also Pockets... I was wondering how many gliders your mixture feeds when it lasts for two weeks in the fridge. I have five gliders and I find that freezing their food works best for me but freezing a teaspoon per cube space doesn't seem to make much sense either. I guess I could freeze the full cube and then cut it into smaller servings.
Anyway just wanted to find out how many gliders you were feeding. Thanks
Jennifer - usually I end up wasting too much of the mix in the fridge, so I usually freeze it _ I also prefer to serve it frozen! It usually lasts me aprox 1 month - I am happily owned by 4 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s at this time.
Also remember that when using 'Wombaroo High Protein Supplement' - you only need to use half the quantity because of its superior protein quality & higher concentration!
I mix & pour into a tupperware type container, freeze it & spoon out 1 teaspoon nightly to each <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> Yes the PML mixture is very similar to BML in consistency when frozen
Here is an Australian conversion chart that I use, notice the differences! Australian Conversions
Anyone that wishes to use the 'PML' please talk with your veterinarian 1st!!!!!!!!!
I was contacted by Nekton in Germany, this morning & they are sending me the ingredients list to the Nekton Tonic R by first class mail - will let you know soon
It seemed like a lot of honey to me too - but it's what the recipe calls for - I even checked around the internet for the original Des Hacketts version & it's right on the money. Equal parts water & honey. I find that it freezes softer than BML - you can actually scoop it like ice cream - very cool! I have it set up in 1 T per cube increments as 1 T is equal to 2 t & my gliders are 2/cage. Don't know if that helps you any.
Pockets - I was on the Nekton site & it says that you feed the Nekton 2-3 times a week IN PLACE of their regular diet. This seemed odd to me - how do you feed it? In addition to or in place of?
[:"blue"] I haven't had a chance to look through it carefully; but there are some obvious mistakes in the conversion chart that Pockets linked to in her previous post.[/] [:"red"] I wouldn't use it [/][:"blue"]unless you are good with math and can figure out which values are correct and which are not!!!
If you need to convert metric measurements to English measurements, There is a very useful FREE converter program that is very easy to use. I'll find the link and post it here shortly.
P.S. You have to be "VERY" careful about doing units conversions for units from different countries. Grams and milliliters are the same whereever you are; but units like pints and tablespoons have different values in different countries so it is easy to get screwed up!!! [/]
[:"purple"] Edit: If you are in a hurry to do some conversions, here is one. I have two others that I like a lot better; but can't find the links right now since I have changed computers recently. I will find them and post them later.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> ... I have it set up in 1 T per cube increments as 1 T is equal to 2 t & my gliders are 2/cage. Don't know if that helps you any...
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"]If the above is trying to say that 1 tablespoon is equal to 2 teaspoons, it must be a typo as we all know that a tablespoon is "3" teaspoons!! Unless you live in Australia where there are "FOUR" teaspoons to a tablespoon!!!! [/]
Then my tablespoon is screwy cuz I took my teaspoon and filled it twice & dumped into my tablespoon & it was exact. LOL - OK, let me rephrase! If you own the Walmart brand black measuring spoons, then 2 teaspoons is equal to a tablespoon! LOL - that really makes me want to go buy new spoons now!
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> ...Can someone convert the ML and grams to cups and tablespoons ...
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"]Melinda: There are 454 grams(rounded) in a pound and one ounce is equal to approximately 28.4 grams. If you have some specific numbers that you want converted, just post them and I'll help you. The "ml" conversion is a little trickier. There are approximately 15 "ml" in most peoples tablespoon; but the guys from down-under live on the wrong side of the equator and their tablespoon holds 20 ml. I need to look at the specific numbers that you are trying to convert; but you should probably figure a cup to be about 240 ML. [/]
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> ...Then my tablespoon is screwy cuz I took my teaspoon and filled it twice & dumped into my tablespoon & it was exact...
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] That's possible; but it is more likely to be operator error. Did you use water or some form of liquid when you were making this determination? All liquids exhibit a physical property called surface tension which allows you to put more liquid in a measuring spoon than it is actually supposed to hold. If you look closely at a teaspoon filled with water from a faucet, you will see that the water is actually mounded up above the rim of the teaspoon. Just like when measuring solids such as salt or baking powder, you must scrape off any of the material "above the rim" to get an accurate measurement. Although measuring spoons are not lab instruments, the are reasonably accurate if used properly. I think if you check you W/M spoons, they will probably turn out to be OK??? [/]
It is definitely time for the weekend to start I have seen all the action on this thread and finally took the time to read it and now I think my brain hurts …
I never seen any posts from you, but every single one of the people I have come to trust the most in regard to Glider care have sounded off about you in this thread, so I'm gonna toss my hat in the ring and follow blindly and attentivly.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> And I am very glad to have your knowledge and input… as with everyone here at GC! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />
[:"purple"] I am going to try the PML next time I need to mix up a new batch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Do I need to add any calcium and/or Herpevite to the mix as I do this already for the BML? [/]
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Since first emailing her about a month ago, Pockets has always secretly been my Glider Guru and has always been so objective which is the BEST part of all that is Pockets! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> ...1 teaspoon per glider...
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[:"blue"]One thing that has been completely overlooked in this discussion, is that PML is only one component of a complete glider diet. Pockets has spoken extensively about her PML mix but hasn't said much about the other components of her glider's diet. Without understanding the composition of the full diet it is a little difficult to make comparisons with other diets. So for Pockets, I have the following question. Do you essentially feed the BML diet and just substitute your PML mix for Bourbon's BML mix or is your total glider diet different from the BML diet in other respects as well?? Main reason this thought occurred to me is that the recommendation of one teaspoon per glider of your PML mix is only 1/3 of what Bourbon recommends for feeding of her BML mix.
Warm Water - 450ml (bottled only) Honey - 400ml Shelled-boiled eggs - 2 (egg-land's best organic) Wombaroo High Protein Supplement - 30 grams...
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[:"blue"] Pockets: It looks like the original Leadbeater's mix contained equal amounts of water and honey. Is there a typo in your recipe or have you change the ratio in your mix?? [/]
[:"blue"] Just for the sake of comparison, I put Pockets mix and the original Leadbeater's mix side by side in a little chart and attached it for your review. [/]
Yes correct Randy, it is only a part of my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s diet - the PML is just the "Nectar Mix', yes it is quite similar to the BML but the PML is a way to incorprate the missing high protein cereal. Because of the superior protein quality & higher concentration in the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement you use a lot less!
No I have not checked with B, but certainly have checked with my own veterinarians & they approved, you may like to check with B - I strongly advise everyone to check with their own veterinarians before using the WHPS or changing anything in their :glider's diet
Randy - do you know what the protein requirements are for your <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s? Does B know?
Yes I feed many types of veggies & fruits, frozen/blended mixes as well as fresh everynight to my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s
Yes I personally use a little less honey & less egg as I am still tweaking my 'PML' - I figure I will continue to tweak my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s diet the rest of my life (lol)
Anyone can purchase & use the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement, adding it to their <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s diet anyway they see fit - it can just be sprinkled ontop. It is just another option for protein - for those looking for something that their <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s may enjoy.
I use several different & unusual products in my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s diet & have several other ideas I am looking into - this is just one product I use & wanted to share
Randy I have some concerns with the amount & type of honey used - as it isn't stated anywhere & the amount of eggs in the original mix. I am talking to a few people who hopefully will be able help
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> ...Randy - do you know what the protein requirements are for your <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s? Does B know?...
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[:"blue"]Not only do I not know that particular little tidbit, I don't know "ANY" of the absolute nutritional requirements for gliders and would be pretty confident in saying there are few if any who really do. I only mentioned the BML diet for a point of reference because it is one most everyone is familiar with.....not because I think it is the only good glider diet around. [/]
Protein Requirements: Providing protein intake supplies adequate levels of all essential amino acids, then maintenance protein requirement for mammals ranges from about 1.5g to 6g per kg -075 per day. Protein requirement is related to the amount of energy expended. If there is no gain in body weight then energy intake can be substituted for energy expended. An average value of 6mg of protein per kj of energy intake can be used to estimate maintenance protein requirement. For Wombaroo this translates into 90mg per kj of energy or 4g per kg -075 per day. The amount of supplement needed will depend on the protein quantity and quality in the existing diet and the species.
We will be known forever by the tracks we leave 
