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Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Critter Creations] #644072
09/25/08 04:31 PM
09/25/08 04:31 PM

M
Monster OP
Unregistered
Monster OP
Unregistered
M



Danielle, the person who posted this cannot see this post anymore as they are unregistered. They have a post in the Emergency forum right now, so you may be able to contact them that way. There is a link directly to their new thread a couple posts up...

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: ] #644085
09/25/08 04:43 PM
09/25/08 04:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
Critter Creations Offline
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Critter Creations  Offline
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Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
Thanks Gina!!!


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Critter Creations] #644088
09/25/08 04:48 PM
09/25/08 04:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
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Rock Falls, IL, USA
I am confused when I go to the emergency forum it says this topic has been merged and it leads me right back here?
If I click on the link a couple posts above it does the same thing. Do I need to post somewhere else or here? Did the person manage to get registered and is able to see it here now?


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Anonymous] #644091
09/25/08 04:53 PM
09/25/08 04:53 PM

M
Monster OP
Unregistered
Monster OP
Unregistered
M



Ok, I see what happened...

At the point where the title of the thread changes to "Possible toxins and gliders" - that is where the thread was merged. This morning, that was a seperate thread in the Emergency forum. There was a post under it by a mod saying they would leave it there since the anonymous poster was having trouble registering.

Hopefully, this means that the anonymous poster has registered & we will be hearing from her soon...

Originally Posted By: **DONOTDELETE**
My e-mail, since I can not registar is kittybaran@hotmail.com If anyone has any urgent advice please feel free to call me (480) 695-0402. Kitty

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Critter Creations] #644100
09/25/08 05:10 PM
09/25/08 05:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
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Rock Falls, IL, USA
I wanted to add that we have talked to Richard and this is the first time he has heard of this happening. He wants us to keep him updated on the whole thing. he said that there has been some bad stuff coming out of china, but Riverdale does not come out of china and as far as he knows nothing has changed with the wire. We have used this wire for a very long time and even very recently and never had a problem. We always wash our cages at the car wash or with a pressure washer before we put our gliders in it. Now we mainly did that because the PVC does and always has had an odor to it. We have noticed it takes about a month of cleaning it at the most to get that smell to go away. There does seem to be a film on the wire, but as soon as we pressure wash it the film is gone. Now whether that film would hurt a glider I don't think it would, because I can guarantee that we sold to customers who did not wash their cage before putting their gliders in it and never had a problem. At least not that we ever heard of and I believe we would have heard. I am not trying to be defensive at all. I am just worried about a good company such as Klubertanz getting their names bashed on here when they have done nothing wrong. We even asked if they had sprayed in their warehouse or anything along those lines that may have caused anything and he said no that they would never do that as they know a lot of their wire goes to cage builders and that wire goes to animals.
I still want to hear everything there is to hear about this as the most important thing is to find out what is causing this and if it is the wire then figuring out what we all can do about it. The gliders are the most important thing in this situation and that is what we have to concentrate on. I just don't want anyone jumping to immediate conclusions that all the wire from Klubertanz is bad for animals when we are not even sure if that is the problem yet. I have read posts where the wire came from e-bay (probably china) and other people that are saying it is klubretanz too. If it is I need to know right away. Until then we will either stop building cages or look around for other wires. Then do we have to worry about other wires since it has happened with at least two brands at this point? We do not want to build anything that would harm a glider in any way shape or form and so the type of wire we use is very important at this point. It just seems weird to me that Riverdale has been being used for a lot of years with no problems at all and now all of a sudden there seems to be possible issues. Did they change the way they do things? They could have and maybe that is the possibility we need to be looking at. Did they change their procedure at all. I know we have used Shepards in the past as well and would be happy to go back with them, but is there going to be a problem there too? Is this something coming from out of the country that all PVC coating is being made of now? I am very concerned as we have people wanting cages, but I do nto want to build them unless I know they are not going to make them sick. Any input would be great!!!
We as a community need to figure out what is going on and make it stop. If it is something they changed then maybe we can get them to change it back.


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Critter Creations] #644102
09/25/08 05:18 PM
09/25/08 05:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Joined: Nov 2003
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NW Missouri
Danielle, I can speak to you in person about this if you'd like to call me tonight. My number is (660) 605-2321 and I will be free after 6 p.m. Central.



"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Critter Creations] #644108
09/25/08 05:24 PM
09/25/08 05:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
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Rock Falls, IL, USA
I'm sorry I also want to add that I am really sorry that this happened to you and your babies. I got so caught up in the fact that something like this is going on that I forgot to say I am very sorry for your loss. Please accept our apologies.


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Critter Creations] #644109
09/25/08 05:27 PM
09/25/08 05:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
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Rock Falls, IL, USA
We will give you a call as soon as we can. It is hard for me to be on the phone right now due to hand issues, but Ken has to work and he said he could contact you as soon as they have a slow period, but if he says he has to go he has to go that second as he is on the ambulance tonight. He won't be trying to be rude. smile We are very interested in anything we can do about this. We look forward to speaking with you.


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Critter Creations] #644112
09/25/08 05:30 PM
09/25/08 05:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis
princessmegi  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
Danielle, if it's easier I can type it all out once I'm home. Also, I have a sample of the blue wire I can mail you, as well as the seller info. Shawna (USMom) and my wire was from the same roll (I bought mine from her) and was purchased from Ebay.



"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: princessmegi] #644128
09/25/08 05:55 PM
09/25/08 05:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
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Rock Falls, IL, USA
Megan,

If you would like to e-mail it to me that may help as Ken is bad at translating all the important details. What he thinks isn't important usually is. LOL Until I get my headset that works properly I am stuck with e-mail and sometimes texting if my fingers allow.
I am really curious about hearing how this has all evolved. I have figured out that the blue wire has not come from Klubertanz or as near as we can figure it hasn't. Someone said that the link for the blue wire on e-bay linked to the same supplier as klubertanz. Any information you have on this would help us greatly. At this point we are considering shutting the store down until we know for sure what is going on as we do not want to be involved with anything that can hurt a glider. Even if it is through a second hand connection.
If you think sending the blue wire sample to me might help then of course feel free to send it to us. I will give you my mailing address in e-mail. I am for doing anything we can do to help to figure this out. This is not just because this involves our business as I will shut that down without thinking about it, but it is because gliders are getting hurt number one and because we could be involved through connection number two. These gliders lives are much more important to us than the business of making cages.
I look forward to hearing from you. If it is too long to type out though take a couple days or whatever or I will just have Ken go ahead and call. I could have him call on his next day off, but at this point I am not sure when that is. LOL
I want to thank you for helping us to figure out what to do.


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Critter Creations] #644156
09/25/08 06:33 PM
09/25/08 06:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
Ok, I'll try and get something typed up tonight and pm you.

The sample of wire is very dull and you can tell it has something on it. My 2 black Klubertanz cages (I built them, but it's Klubertanz wire) are both shiny.

If possible, could you type a list of questions that would have beneficial info/answers for you?



"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: princessmegi] #644297
09/25/08 11:37 PM
09/25/08 11:37 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis
USMom  Offline
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Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
I did talk to Kitty today. She is a very nice lady, but is working with her brothers computers, brother in Russia, so she does not want to clear his cookies. You can call her directly pretty much anytime.

She does have the black wire. So, I'm not sure what the issue is. KB, when we had the blue wire issue, didn't you say you had an issue, but washing the cage with something cleared it up? What was that? If it wasn't you, sorry.


Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: USMom] #644328
09/26/08 01:13 AM
09/26/08 01:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
I remember reading that if the blue wire was washed with the car wash soap that it was ok, but I don't know if that is right or not. dunno


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: sugarlope] #644359
09/26/08 03:25 AM
09/26/08 03:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,470
Tucson, AZ
hipbchik Offline
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Posts: 2,470
Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: sugarlope
I remember reading that if the blue wire was washed with the car wash soap that it was ok, but I don't know if that is right or not. dunno


I remember that as well, and using extremely hot water.

Kitty, I am so sorry for your losses. hug2


peace~carolyn



"Your mind is the birthplace of ingenuity and then you need your heart as the Mediator..." ~Lil C
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Anonymous] #644375
09/26/08 07:11 AM
09/26/08 07:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,667
Long Island, NY
Gossamer Offline
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Posts: 1,667
Long Island, NY
I am so sorry for your loss. How devastating.

Kitty - have other things in your gliders lives been considered? diet comes to mind. Certain things, like crickets and grapes can cause toxicity for various reasons. Also, prepared glider foods that have not been refrigerated can grow mold that can be toxic to gliders. Just some other things to think about.

Last edited by Gossamer; 09/26/08 07:15 AM.

Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Gossamer] #644377
09/26/08 07:31 AM
09/26/08 07:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis
princessmegi  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
I washed mine with car soap and it didn't touch whatever is on this wire. It is a coating than can be scraped with your finger nail. It is on top of the Blue PVC Coating. It makes the wire look dull instead of shiny like it should. I soaked mine in car tire cleaner at the car wash, as well as trying industrial strength degreaser.



"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: princessmegi] #644481
09/26/08 12:21 PM
09/26/08 12:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
OMG you guys I made my cages in early Jan. By April I started fighting different issues with my crew. I wonder if this is related and what caused the liver issue in Sprite and now Stormy, Stitch, and Streak are so frail again... ADDED A NEW STRESS


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: cyndiekb] #644482
09/26/08 12:34 PM
09/26/08 12:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Mine smelled like machine shop I got the smell off. I figured no smell no worries. I pray this is not why mine are compromised.


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: cyndiekb] #644497
09/26/08 01:02 PM
09/26/08 01:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,360
Ft. Pierce, FL
thefotokat Offline
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Posts: 1,360
Ft. Pierce, FL
I know the car wash soap/degreaser works w/the black plastic mesh, but not sure about the actual wires. The hard part in this case is trying to eliminate the possible sources one by one for a definitive answer. It will be interesting to hear the answers to her questions from Rivendale. Maybe something will turn up from that.

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: thefotokat] #644515
09/26/08 01:43 PM
09/26/08 01:43 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis
USMom  Offline
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
The car was soap and REALLY hot water only worked on the cage where I hand scrubbed the pieces in my tub before I assembled it. I had gliders in that cage for 9 months with no problems. The other cage that I washed, and scrubbed and took to the car wash and on and on and on, nothing worked. But, it was huge, and I could NOT use hot water on it. It was too big to even get through my bathroom door (22" doors on my RR's)


Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: USMom] #644517
09/26/08 01:49 PM
09/26/08 01:49 PM

P
PixTrix OP
Unregistered
PixTrix OP
Unregistered
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USMom, do you have pics of the cage? I am curious...as to why nothing worked in removing the film of gunk from the blue pvc coating.


Jen

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: USMom] #644802
09/26/08 09:29 PM
09/26/08 09:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
Critter Creations Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
Ken has talked to Richard and we have been assured that there is no changes in the way that the wire is being made, the materials being used to make it, or anything going on in the warehouse where it is stored. We asked if they had sprayed for anything, etc.. The answer was no. He did mention a couple times now that there are problems with some wire coming out of china and Riverdale does not come out of China. Is she absolutely positive that it was Riverdale wire? I can't remember if it said, but did it say she purchased it from Klubertanz? Klubertanz does sell other brands than just Riverdale. Maybe it was something in the house or was this cage even in the house? It mentions it is an aviary? That typically means that it is outside, but I realize that is not always true as we had what we called aviaries in nursing homes I worked at. I just want to see what all the facts are so we know what questions we should be asking and where to go from here.
I will say that at this point I will be building my babies another cage soon from Riverdale wire (when I get the money to build it) and to be honest I am not worried. I am keeping my mind open to anything that is being said and am still investigating as far as I can go with what information I have, but I am just about 90% sure it is not the Riverdale wire. Maybe it was some of the black PVC wire that comes out of china? Richard did not say what the problems were with the wire coming out of china. maybe it was just a manufacturing issue and maybe it was an issue that is making animals sick. Ken doesn't always think of what questions to ask so I have to write more down and have him call back, but I am not going to have him calling Richard three times a day as we know he is a very busy man so I am trying to be respectful and still get the information we need. I know that if I was even a little bit worried about Riverdale wire I would not even consider building my babies a new cage out of any PVC wire at all and I would close our business right now. Sugar gliders have been in PVC coated wire cages (most made from Riverdale wire) and have never had a problem so I don't see the need to jump to assumptions that because this situation happened that all PVC wire is bad. It could have been a bad batch as that happens with animal food, etc..
There are sorts of possible explainations, but I don't want everyone that has a PVC cage to start worrying and run out and purchase new cages. Lets all dig into this and ask any questions we can possibly think of that could be involved in this. This community has figured out more issues than most vets out there so that says a lot. I think it is possible to do the same in this situation, but I also think it is going to take us all thinking outside of the box and asking those questions that pop into your head. If necessary hunting down the people that can find the answers, etc.. Lets all keep our minds open (I know it may not seem like it, but mine still is) and think of what could have caused this and see if we can pin it down. Come on everyone we can do this!!!!!


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: Critter Creations] #644832
09/26/08 10:23 PM
09/26/08 10:23 PM

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PixTrix OP
Unregistered
PixTrix OP
Unregistered
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Right on, Danielle! I am so with you on this!

Like I said, all of our cages are built with Riverdale pvc-coated 16-gauge wire from Klubertanz and I have never had any problem with it. I am not about to change cages just because of this "scare", because I have seen proof that our gliders are just fine in their cages. As a matter of fact, I have had these cages since 2001.

Thank you, Danielle and Ken, for going out of your way to inquire about the wire with Richard. We all appreciate that!


Jen

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: ] #644837
09/26/08 10:29 PM
09/26/08 10:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis
princessmegi  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
I know for Shawna and I, the gliders were noticeably ill within days. After just 4 days my Tiki's hair was falling out and her skin scabby. If you have a cage that is PVC coated and your gliders have been in it for more than a month, I would say you are safe and it isn't the wire.



"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: princessmegi] #644839
09/26/08 10:39 PM
09/26/08 10:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Since the blue cage wire was sold off of Ebay, it's possible the person who sold it had it in a place where it got sprayed with something or became toxic from where or however it was stored..thus the reason for them selling it? Just a thought...


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: SugarBlossoms] #644855
09/26/08 11:15 PM
09/26/08 11:15 PM

P
PixTrix OP
Unregistered
PixTrix OP
Unregistered
P



Yes, it is a very good possibility! There are so many factors that contribute to the gliders' illnesses, just too many to count!


Jen

Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: ] #644862
09/26/08 11:29 PM
09/26/08 11:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis
princessmegi  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
It wasn't sold by an individual. The seller was Riverdale Mills. They sell on Ebay.



"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: princessmegi] #644879
09/26/08 11:43 PM
09/26/08 11:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Oh okay. Well that shot that out.

I wish we knew what it is on that wire! frown


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: SugarBlossoms] #644889
09/26/08 11:51 PM
09/26/08 11:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis
princessmegi  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
It's really grimy. Leaves your hands feeling nasty after working with it. I have no clue what it is. I'm going to send a sample to Danielle. Maybe they'll be able to figure it out.



"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist
Re: Unknown toxin killing gliders [Re: princessmegi] #645263
09/27/08 03:06 PM
09/27/08 03:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict
Critter Creations  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,398
Rock Falls, IL, USA
I agree about the amount of time in the cage. I was just saying that to Ken last night and I just mentioned that to pixtrix in a pm just now before I came on and read updates on here. As small as these gliders are and with as big as these cages are compared to them that means there would be a lot of toxin around them so therefore they should be sick and showing signs within 1-2 weeks max.
Is Riverdale Mills the exact same as Riverdale wire? I have never heard of them referred to as Riverdale mills, but that might just be because they shorten the name when talking to us and we never knew it.
If it isn't the exact same company maybe this is some of the wire coming out of china. Ken and I had seen that there was wire on ebay and we almost purchased some. I am so glad we didn't. I wonder if the black wire they are selling on ebay is the exact same thing as the blue wire on there. I am going to contact the seller on ebay and see if we can purchase a small sample of the wire they are selling on there (just tell them i am interested in purchasing a large amount and wanted to see the quality) and then compare it to the blue sample and then compare both to the wire we get from klubertanz. We have to realize too that on e-bay anyone can lie and say they are selling a certain brand or they are a certain company and they are not. Years ago we had never seen PVC coated wire sold on ebay (not any brand at all) so that is why we were a little leary of it. Plus it was a lot cheaper than what is being charged everywhere else. Is there anyone on here that has purchased the black wire from ebay?
I know that it was said that the black wire mentioned in the beginning of this topic was purchased from Klubertanz, but we have to start ruling out things out as we go along to find out what exactly is causing this. If the wire on ebay is bad then that would explain the other illnesses that there has been with gliders in those cages. So then it would be a matter of figuring out all the details of what was going on with the gliders in this other situation. diet, cleaning products, toys, bedding, snacks, etc.. all needs to be looked into and asked about. I still think that if it was the wire these gliders would have been showing signs and gotten sick much faster than this. I believe it was something else causing it. We all know there have been bad batches of food out there no matter what you feed. You could get bad chicken baby food for BML. We all know the processed food can have bad batches made from it. Snacks can be an issue too. There are just too many variables and these questions need answered too so that we can move forward to figure out what caused this. Maybe she could send me a sample of the wire she used to build her cages just in case it was a bad batch and there is any way to tell by looking at a sample of hers and comparing it to a piece of ours and then to the bad stuff off of ebay. I want to figure this out before any other gliders get sick and die. This is horrible to go through and Lord knows none of us want this to happen to any other gliders or their parents. So if we can figure out that the wire on ebay (black or blue) has a different quality to it than the stuff from Klubertanz (riverdale specifically) then maybe we could figure out where to have it tested at. I could send samples of all three pieces of wire and see if that person can find what is different between the three. We would have to find someone that would be able to test this sort of stuff for free for us or at a very small fee. maybe there is someone in the community that does this sort of thing or is able to???
If anyone has any questions they can think of please post them or pm them to me so that I can write them down and figure out how to rule them out. Is the person that started this topic allowed to post anymore? If she isn't that is ok I just didn't want to bug her a whole lot on the phone with what she has been through. I can gather what information I can and then call her. I just want to know more about the things in the environment these gliders were in and if she can think of anything that they were using that was new whether it was food or cleaning products. I pray we will figure this out so we can put everyone's minds to rest and to find out what caused it so it doesn't happen again.


Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics

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