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#80420 - 01/29/06 07:58 AM Z's patagium
Anonymous
Unregistered


ya, its early. Z's in his cage right now I'm trying to get him to go to bed.
The little flap is half attached, but it looks as tho more may be torn. There's no blood, so maybe his patagium is stretched back to normal. Either way, the half that's dangling has a long string of skin with it. It's been groomed from what I can see, but not chewed. It's his normal routine for the am so I have to wait till he goes to sleep and I can look at it more closely. He is still acting normal.
What am I supposed to do?

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#80421 - 01/29/06 08:18 AM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Get him to a vet right away! It's odd that there's no blood, but a torn patagium will need to be treated by a vet or else the glider will start to self-mutilate. Find a 24-hour emergency vet and get him in ASAP.
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#80422 - 01/29/06 08:23 AM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Suz I don't know if you've read the thread on Zeebo-latest and greates, right below this one, please read that and get back to me...

The question I mostly have (now that I've breathed) is wether I should try and cut the dead peice off, or leave it to Zeebo to chew off.....

I've tried to put a call in to my vet, but she's not picking up at the moment. Z's chewing on the external most part that is dead, trying to get it to rip off. He's not bothering the main body of the dead flap, just what drags and hinders him when he steps on it trying to walk. A good half centimeter is still attached to his patagium, but it's just that tiny strip he's worrying with. I new eventually it would come to this point, but I must have dreamed in my fantasy world that it all expelled at once....


Edited by YavaBean (01/29/06 08:28 AM)

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#80423 - 01/29/06 09:07 AM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
I would not try to cut it off myself if I were you. I would aslo try to distract him from biting it off, and just continue trying to reach your vet. Im sure they will tell you to bring him in so they can remove that and any other dead tissue around it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#80424 - 01/29/06 09:17 AM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


ok thanks. he's sleeping soundly at the moment. I had to give him a new pouch to nest in to distract him. It was comical, I'd open it to look and he'd climb halfway out, grab the ends and shut it again. "leave me alone mom"

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#80425 - 01/29/06 02:04 PM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Please do not let him chew on it. He should probably be in an ecollar. He does need vet attention as soon as possible. He will need anti biotics to clear up or prevent any infection as well as pain meds. He may need to have it surgically repaired or removed, depending on the extent of the damage. Please don't let him out of your site. He can do fatal damage in just minutes if he decides to self mutilate.

The satalite collar I made I traced out a circle, then cut a small V out of it and an inner circle. I used the moleskin just like with the other ecollars. I don't have a pattern for it, it was just trial and error. I did use the plastic cutting mats found at walmart (in a package of three) by the cutting boards in the kitchen section.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#80426 - 01/29/06 02:14 PM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Yava,
I just read through your other thread about Zeebo. Sorry, I didn't see it at first, and if I had read it first, I would have been better able to give you advice on what to do.
Anyway, now that I have read it, I would recommend that you leave it alone for now. You can get him in to Dr. Thomas tomorrow and that will probably be fine. In the meantime, you may want to make the satellite collar that Teresa (Dancing) has recommended to have on-hand just in case he starts to chew on it.
Also, I just wanted to tell you... based on everything you have done so far for this little guy, I think you are a fantastic glider-mom! WTG!!!
Please keep us posted...
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />


Edited by sugarglidersuz (01/29/06 02:16 PM)
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#80427 - 01/29/06 05:45 PM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I napped, knowing that I'll be up all night with Z no matter if he goes to the vet or not, thus missing the vets call. Now I'm waiting again! Bad me, BAD! I catch him squiggling around, and give him chin scratchies to distract him back to sleep. He's starting on the very end and taking a strip at a time. Sort of like 'flossing his teeth. He is still a very far way away from any live tissue.
Just now:
I've talked to the vet's office I go to, and she(Dr Jones) put a call into Dr Thomas to ask her what to do.

I'm prepaired to stay up all night(yeah, that nap) and have a collar on hand. I also have some left over Torb from last week should it come to that.

I think as long as I can distract him, it should be ok until a vet apptmnt tomorrow am. Hopefully.

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#80428 - 01/29/06 05:49 PM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Yava, it is going to be a long night. I will be online for part of it and you are welcome to give me a shout if you want to talk. Also, after I get off the computer, my phone number is 913 471 4993 if you need to talk. You are not alone (though it can feel like it in the middle of the night with a hurt glider). Anyone with a hurt or sm glider can call me anytime. I'll try to help all I can.

Let us know how things go tomorrow at the vet. Prayers for your little guy!
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#80429 - 01/29/06 05:55 PM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Dancing, you just wait until your nice and curled up dreaming and I'll call you right up!!!!

Seriously though, your wonderful! All of you!

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#80430 - 01/30/06 08:56 AM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, we got through the night! Z's got to be mad at me. I threatened him with conehead thoughts but just couldn't bring myself to put it on. I figured either way I was going to be up, why not be a fun mom instead. The flap is still attached by a small piece, and I'm making a vet appt to get it cut off later today.

The skin that the dead flap has detached from is red, but otherwise healthy tissue. I think with some practice, he'll still fly. He'll just be missing his racing stripe.

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#80431 - 01/30/06 12:04 PM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Yava, Debbie is an excellant vet, the chances of mutilating the membrane is slim to nil, however the biggest concern is getting it caught on something or him stepping on it. the membrane is something they usually clean extremely well, so there is little fear of him biting at it, he may try to remove the dead skin on his own..

IF the edge (i haven't seen any picture) that is the connective tissue between the front and back legs is torn, the chances of flight is slim..if not totally impossible. the stress of when they snap out their membrane when they glide, will throw is balance all out of whack. Although.. a minor inconvience, many gliders have learned to adapt. They jump more.. but i have never heard of any of them gliding again.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#80432 - 01/30/06 03:16 PM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It seems that little man Z will be waiting until tomorrow for his vet appt. Dr Thomas isn't there until tomorrow. It appears he will be having surgery, again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

Bourbon and everyone else on these threads of Zeebos': Thank you for your time and opinion.

The piece was originally larger, he did step on it alot. He's chewed off a good portion that hindered his step. He isn't doing it in gigantic bites, but he gets it in his two little hands and takes a strip like beef jerky. I don't know whether he eats it and I don't want to. I just haven't found any tell-tail spit out pieces in the pouch. I wont go into details of when I do manage to catch him in the act and grab 'somthing' from him. The flap is not something he focuses all his attention on, but does take his time on it while grooming. I also don't believe it will be a mutilating issue. I think he's just doing what he would have to do in the wild to keep it out of the way. Still, I can say I'm prepared. He still has a good portion to go before there is live tissue, and I think he'll be ok until tomorrow.

Sorry I haven't managed to get a picture up here, I have been meaning to, but I don't have a digital camara. It is actually a rather interesting case and I know I would like to see it if it were not me. Hopefully I will get a friend of mine here at work to bring hers, and I will buy a disposable one for Dr Thomas to use while Z is under to get good shots of it.

It is the very edge, close to the center, but slightly nearer the hind end. I talked to Dr Thomas in the beginning about his possible flight capability, and she seemed positive. She explained that there is just so much skin that makes up the patagium, he should end up with a minor dent and no stripe. She figured that he would adapt, like a glider with no tail. Dr Thomas also noted that he isn't going to be traveling yards. While that may be affected, the minor curtain to bed/floor/face jumps would probably not. She hasn't seen it since it started to become dettached though, and I will get her opinion on it tomorrow. In the end, I believe it will be a thin half moon shape missing, but we'll see.

Either way, he'll have many options to him and I only hope he stays as happy as he has been throughout his series of issues. I know Zeebo appriciated me staying up with him all last night, when I fell asleep, he smacked me in the chin while sitting on my chest and reminded me it was his night.

All in all, I am very lucky Zeebo is who he is. He is a very easy to please glider... "Just watch me, watch me mom I'm soo cool!" Or I'll walk around and he'll hitchhike on my P.J. pants so he can think he's real tough.

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#80433 - 01/31/06 08:41 AM Re: Z's patagium [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Yava,
What an incredible experience you have had with this entire ordeal... You really amaze me with your continually optimistic outlook. Even with missing nights upon end of sleep, you are still upbeat and cheerful! You inspire me!!!
Keep up the great work & give little Zeebo a hug for me. Thank you for the continued updates on his progress...
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#80434 - 01/31/06 10:22 AM BAD ME [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mike, Zeebo, and I got home last night to find Togepi was loose. Togepi(f) and Pikachu(n.m.) are our newest pair of about 4 weeks. We have kept them completely separate for quarentine and other obvious reasons. They have made eye contact only when Zeebo gets a ride into the spare room to get sheets or the like.

Togepi managed to go into Mike, Zeebo, and my bedroom and play mealie massacrie. She must have just gotten out because only two mealies were gone. Granted, there was oatmeal/wheatgerm all over the bed from where I set the container to give everyone a mealworm that morning. She was at that moment playing all over Zeebos' cage.

Zeebo knows that when we get home, he waits until the bedroom, then he may come out. He tries very hard to stay in his pouch during other 'I'm almost ready to be awake' times. So while Mike and I try to get Togepi; Zeebo is on the small of my back. No big deal. Togepi hops on me so I rush her to her room and put her in their cage. Zeebo jumps to the bottom level of Pikachu and Togepis' cage, he freezes. The pair are one shelf/level up, so I was not in an emergancy 'scare the stuffing out of all the critters' hurry. Togepi comes straight over and sticks her little paw down and introduces herself. Zeebo sniffed and they greet hap-hazardly but sweetly. Pikachu is off in the nearest corner watching, rather displeased.
I managed to peel three out of four limbs off the cage, but Z, using -the one toed hook and grab- managed to keep one limb attached, effectively moving up those two inches to the next level. :Now it's time for the emergancy scare all the critters movement: but Pikachu got there before I could detach Zeebos last remaining foot.

~God, I know things can always be worse, but please give Zeebo a break~

Pikachu held Zeebo's back foot until I smacked the cage successfully detaching Pikachu from the wall. Not nice but dire need causes wrongful action. (Pikachu is fine and held no ill will against me.)
Zeebo runs for cover, not lame, under the guest bed. After a frantic game of 'catch me if you can' Zeebo runs to me. I put him on his cage and inspect his hind paw.
No marks *breathe*
Later on he licks the bottom of his paw, and I investigate farther, still, no marks or redness. Dare I say just worries?!

ff to am:
Upon inspection there is a small scab on the top of his big thumb. I will have Dr Thomas look at it during his appt/surgery at 2.

Back on topic -sorry-
There is still a good amount of flap left that needs to be removed. I wasn't as dilligent about keeping him off of it last night, and he only treated it during normal grooming hours. During our play *yay he still loves me* Zeebo made a great leap/air displacement from the top of the window curtain to the far side of the bed. That is all that he had done before, so I'm glad he still can.

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#80435 - 01/31/06 08:45 PM Upside [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My boss let me off work for the rest of the day so I could take Zeebo to the vet. The staff thought I was just going to drop him off, but, alas I waited. I was hoping to maybe see what was going to be performed.

THANK HEAVEN I stayed and waited. The Veterinary Center thought when I called them and told them that Zeebo was chewing his flap, I was talking about the very original problem, his unretracted penis. As I explained that he made a flossing the teeth like motion with the flap of skin, everyone was under the impression he was masturbating again! Dr Thomas was all prepaired to lop half of it off, when under inspection she saw no problem. The receptionist (who is adorable btw) wasn't there the day I brought wee man in for his dead skin, so naturally she thought it was for the problem she knew of!

The procedure Z went though was a ten minute ordeal, he was sedated (not that I could tell) and the flap removed. I promise, one day I will at least get pictures of the finished result. *sheepish grin* -To broke to get a camara, to broke to admit to the boyfriend I went to the vet today and the flap didn't just fall off.

BTW, Z's little big thumb is just fine, I will just keep an eye on it.

Please stay tuned for tomorrows' saga!

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#80436 - 02/01/06 07:05 AM Re: Upside [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you find that you need an e collar, I have one. I live in Tidewater also. Hope things go well...also, my husband can help put the collar on, if you need it. Did Debbie put him in a collar? If she didn't, he probably won't need one.

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#80437 - 02/01/06 01:38 PM Re: Upside [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


No, no collar necessary, my little man is perfect! Got his nails trimmed yesterday and everything. Granted I accidentally let it slip. "O look they missed a nail" Mike of course says, "Who is they?"
I'm so busted. If only I could remember when I'm trying to omit things!

Anyway, for now, my little man is as perfect as I know he is.

Thank you everyone for your help. Sometimes just typing here makes everything clearer.

Also, I hope whoever can learn from some of my mistake, learns by reading about them, not making them. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask! Eventually I'm going to compile everything and get pictures if possible. I'll let you all know when I do!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" />'s from Zeebo!

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