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Hematology Reference for Healthy Gliders #1098463
04/11/11 03:44 PM
04/11/11 03:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
NJ
R
romulusandremus Offline OP
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romulusandremus  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
NJ
Hi guys

As some of you may know, I recently lost my glider Romulus to leukemia. The vet was able to make the diagnosis based on his abnormal blood count (his lymphocytes were through the roof).

Anyhow, when I received the results of his bloodwork, I did a lot of research to find "standard" blood counts for a healthy sugar glider so that I could compare my results to those. There seems to be very little info out there regarding expected or standard blood counts for sugar gliders. The best I was able to find was this:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/htm/bc/texl17.htm

It provides the values for things such as white and red blood count, as well as values for certain minerals such as calcium and phosphorus.

Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone had more complete reference ranges. It would be great if we could compile a set of references for the bloodwork of a healthy glider so that the community here would have a standard to compare to if they get bloodwork done on their gliders.

Most importantly I think we need to have a reference range for White and Red blood cell counts (and the breakdown of the various types of white blood cells), liver and kidney enzyme ranges, and protein/mineral ranges.

Again, if anyone is aware of published or accepted data for healthy gliders, it would be great to post that as a resource. Thanks-Josh

Re: Hematology Reference for Healthy Gliders [Re: romulusandremus] #1098481
04/11/11 04:38 PM
04/11/11 04:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

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Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
Thanks for posting this.
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Re: Hematology Reference for Healthy Gliders [Re: romulusandremus] #1098500
04/11/11 05:19 PM
04/11/11 05:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
D
DianeR Offline
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DianeR  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
Your list seems to have all that you are asking for, including the normal expected ranges.

White cell types:
lymphocytes,
monocytes,
neutrophils,
eosinophils,
basophils

ALT and AST are liver enzymes.

Creatine and Creatinine, and Creatine phosphokinase (CPK) are kidney function markers.

But really looking at these and knowing what they means needs to be left up to the lab and the vet (and pathologist, if necessary). So many things can change the values and even if the values fall outside the normal range it doesn't necessarily mean there is anything seriously wrong with your glider.

Medications can change the values, as can simple allergies. Even simple dehydration (not severe) can alter the creatine, creatinine, and CPK values. If anything is unexpected, your vet will discuss it with you.

I guess this would be good to have to give to your vet if they aren't familiar with sugar gliders.

Diane

Last edited by DianeR; 04/11/11 05:23 PM.
Re: Hematology Reference for Healthy Gliders [Re: DianeR] #1098501
04/11/11 05:39 PM
04/11/11 05:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
NJ
R
romulusandremus Offline OP
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romulusandremus  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2009
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NJ
Originally Posted By: DianeR
Your list seems to have all that you are asking for, including the normal expected ranges.

White cell types:
lymphocytes,
monocytes,
neutrophils,
eosinophils,
basophils

ALT and AST are liver enzymes.

Creatine and Creatinine, and Creatine phosphokinase (CPK) are kidney function markers.

But really looking at these and knowing what they means needs to be left up to the lab and the vet (and pathologist, if necessary). So many things can change the values and even if the values fall outside the normal range it doesn't necessarily mean there is anything seriously wrong with your glider.

Medications can change the values, as can simple allergies. Even simple dehydration (not severe) can alter the creatine, creatinine, and CPK values. If anything is unexpected, your vet will discuss it with you.

I guess this would be good to have to give to your vet if they aren't familiar with sugar gliders.

Diane


I agree with all you wrote, and you are correct that the link I provided contains the info I am inquiring about.
However, the link is just 1 source and I do not have full confidence in the accuracy of their data.

For instance, the numbers they have listed for lymphocytes seem quite low from my experience. Unfortunately, data tables like the one I linked to often are derived from the known values of similar species, or animals of a similar size. So the data in that table may simply be an estimation of the expected values based on a different marsupial, or perhaps even a hamster.

I am hoping to find or compile the results of actual bloodwork from sugar gliders. Many people here have had bloodwork done on their gliders and if they could have their vets fax them copies of the results and then upoad them onto this site, we would really have a better sense of the actual ranges seen in gliders.

Re: Hematology Reference for Healthy Gliders [Re: romulusandremus] #1098530
04/11/11 07:11 PM
04/11/11 07:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
My suggestion would be to get in touch with srlb (that's her screen name on here) she works closely with Dr. Tim Tristan who is one of the top Sugar Glider Knowledgeable vets around.


Re: Hematology Reference for Healthy Gliders [Re: romulusandremus] #1098547
04/11/11 07:52 PM
04/11/11 07:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
I do already have this saved to my comp under favs, so please the rest of you do the same. Had labwork done on Spencer recently. Cant figure out how to get it from my in box to here under his thread, so frustrating. The vet told me his values were normal but thats not what it looks like to me and I did email the Merk manual results to him but he wont see it til tomorrow. Sorry to impose on your thread. smile


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: Hematology Reference for Healthy Gliders [Re: romulusandremus] #1098556
04/11/11 08:09 PM
04/11/11 08:09 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict
Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Also remember that establishing norms for captive raised gliders is one of the goals of The SUGAR Group. We have been collecting lab results for years now, but are no where near the numbers we need to confidently establish norms. If you have had blood work (or ANY lab work) done on your glider and have a copy of the results, PLEASE email a copy to sugargroup@hotmail.com. Once we get enough data, we will be able to answer questions like those raised here.


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Hematology Reference for Healthy Gliders [Re: romulusandremus] #1098584
04/11/11 08:51 PM
04/11/11 08:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
I emailed it to the addy on your website Val, ok I will forward the email to this addy you posted too.


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: Hematology Reference for Healthy Gliders [Re: romulusandremus] #1098662
04/12/11 12:19 AM
04/12/11 12:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
D
DianeR Offline
Joey Member
DianeR  Offline
Joey Member
D

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
Originally Posted By: romulusandremus


I am hoping to find or compile the results of actual bloodwork from sugar gliders. Many people here have had bloodwork done on their gliders and if they could have their vets fax them copies of the results and then upoad them onto this site, we would really have a better sense of the actual ranges seen in gliders.


Well, I see what you mean, but compiling data from gliders' vets visits will accidentally cherry pick the data, since often the gliders' visits are for reasons of health, and the samples are taken in a stressful situation even if the gliders are healthy.

A better source would be a controlled sampling of healthy gliders from the gliders in their natural US domestic habitats (i.e., home at their breeders). That would give you a better baseline of what a healthy glider's blood work should look like. The larger and wider the sampling the better the data would be.

I don't know where this data comes from that the Merck bases their numbers on, but I imagine it probably comes from Australia's captive populations in either research labs or zoos.

Diane


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