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Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? #110539
06/15/06 05:45 PM
06/15/06 05:45 PM

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I know, youíre thinking . . . ďAnother one?Ē Iíll try to make this as painless as possible.

I was wondering, has anyone made a pairing of two WF 100% Het for Leucistic Gliders? If so, what did that pairing yield?

Iím wondering if that could be one way to produce a TRUE Platinum. Haley, who I consider a TRUE Platinum (Everyone else being White Variation/Mosaic; a co-dominate gene), was created from one 100% Het for Leu with Normal Coloring and a WFB male. Sheila mentioned somewhere that it may have something to do with the Cinnamon in the bloodlines. But WF and Leu genes seem to be key in this variation in color. Could pairing two WF 100% Het For Leucistics give a breeder a better chance of yielding offspring like Haley. Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Do you think that Haley was a once in a life time Mutation or could this pairing be duplicated?

Last edited by Eurynome; 06/16/06 12:48 AM.
Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110540
06/15/06 05:58 PM
06/15/06 05:58 PM

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Maybe Hayley should be cloned. LOL She's such a gorgeous glider!

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110541
06/15/06 05:59 PM
06/15/06 05:59 PM

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Can I see a pic of Haley? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" />

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110542
06/15/06 06:05 PM
06/15/06 06:05 PM

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Here is the link to Sheila's Page:
http://www.toandfrogliders.com/FileHiera...mp;%20Honey.htm

I agree, She is exceptionally Beautiful! I want one just like her <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110543
06/15/06 06:17 PM
06/15/06 06:17 PM

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getting a wfb het for leu pairing would be expensive. I'd love to try that out, but too bad I dont have a couple grand to spare <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110544
06/15/06 06:26 PM
06/15/06 06:26 PM

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I must say, she is absolutley stunning.

What a beaut!

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110545
06/15/06 06:35 PM
06/15/06 06:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Lynsie Offline
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I don't know much about the genetics of Plats. But I think it Haley's color didn't just come from her parents being 100% Leu Het and a WFB. I think there must be some hidden gene in one of the gliders that produced Haley. Haley is the only one out of that pair to have that color. I do not think pairing 2 100% Leu het WFB's would make any difference in trying to get a Plat, it was just pure luck. Remember this is just my opinion, I have nothing to genetically back up my theory. And I'm sure Sheila will be along to correct me if I'm wrong. But hopefully by the time I get a Plat. out of Haley's line I will know a little more, hehe.

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110546
06/15/06 07:02 PM
06/15/06 07:02 PM
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Haley is stunning to say the least. I fell in love the first time I saw her awhile back. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110547
06/15/06 07:04 PM
06/15/06 07:04 PM

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Well, if you notice, WF tends to delute colors. The more generations the WF's have behind them, the lighter some are (take Pippin for example a 4.5 Generation). Perhaps a strong combination of WF and Leu could delute the standard color into a light silver (platinum).

Sheila had mentioned one theory (perhaps THIS is the special gene). She said that some snake breeders use red in their breeding to get simiar coloring (platinum?). She said something about red being a recessive (?) color and the Leu and WFB taking over? I can't find the post, so I'm not clear on what was said.

I just find it too unlikely that a "rare" gene is responsible for this (almost as unlikley as two norms producing a Leu). Our breeding pool just isn't big enough for coincidences (I think the Cremeno glider was the only coincidence allowed for suggies for three decades!). I think that, given enough research, it can be duplicated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> What do you think?

MiiiIIIikkkkkEEeee . . . Where are you Miiikkkkeeee??? Do you know anything about this red gene????

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110548
06/15/06 08:14 PM
06/15/06 08:14 PM

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Man I don't know about colors to much but I swear mom talks about how one day Haley will be hers all the time . She is obsessed with that one. Dad has already been told the only other glider mom wants is Haley (and she will take a Haley baby till Haley can come live here lol)

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110549
06/15/06 10:09 PM
06/15/06 10:09 PM

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If I'm not mistaken, isn't Haley the offspring of a light leu het female (almost champagne) and a WFB male with no leu in his history?

I don't think pairing 2 WF/100% leu hets is going to get you a Haley because that's not what produced Haley in the first place.

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110550
06/15/06 11:15 PM
06/15/06 11:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
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Quincy, IL 62305
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Haley is out of Little Dipper a 100% Leu het and Bailey a WFB.

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110551
06/15/06 11:20 PM
06/15/06 11:20 PM

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Acutally, Bailey (WFB) MAY have had Leu in his family tree. No one really knows for sure how Cereal came about or if he may have had Leu in his lines.

The coloring Haley has appears to be a combination of WFB and Leucistic. Or an exaggerated form of WFB. It is obvious that WFB and Leucistic are vital players in Haley's genes (who's to say the combination can only be achieved by Lil Dipper and Bailey?). Putting two WFB 100% Het for Leu together MAY increase the chance of getting a Haley. I'm asking if anyone has tried. Or if anyone thinks it may yield a glider like Haley. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

I don't think there is a special gene . . . I just think there is a special combination at conception. It's possible, right?

I finally found the thread I was looking for.

Here was Sheila's Theory:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
if you want any color to be dominate in breeding - even the recessive colors like Leucistic and albino, you breed them to cinnamons because it is a less dominate color and not as strong as a gray color.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

LOL It didn't say what I thought it said LOL It didn't say anything about Platinum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110552
06/15/06 11:23 PM
06/15/06 11:23 PM

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I don't know much about genetics, but she is gorgeous! I would love to see a glider like that in person! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" />

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110553
06/15/06 11:25 PM
06/15/06 11:25 PM

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Honestly, I think Haley was a fluke. I don't think you can intentonally breed for her color, but I'm sure it will pop up again...

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110554
06/16/06 12:45 AM
06/16/06 12:45 AM

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I dunno, I just can't see Haley's coloring as a fluke. She expresses a color that seems to be a mix of gene's from each parent. That can't just be a coincidence.

The first Creameno was a fluke <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think there is a lot more to learn about WFB and its interaction with Leu and White Variation. But that's just my opinion <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, Night Night! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleep.gif" alt="" />

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110555
06/16/06 01:54 AM
06/16/06 01:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
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There is no Leucistic in the Cereal lineage.

The Co-dominant gene for WF Blonde is capable of diluting out the gray color to where it is very pale. One can breed for very light colored gliders with "selective" line breeding if they have the time and space.

One does not need to pair "2" WF Blonde/Leucistic hets together to achieve the coloration of Hailey.

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110556
06/16/06 02:58 PM
06/16/06 02:58 PM

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Judie, do have a theory on what pairing would yield another joey like Haley? Does anyone have a guess at what was so special about the conception of Haley, besides pure luck?

For a while now I had thought it had something to do with the red in Hope and Sammy's line . . . perhaps the Leu and WF overpowering the Cinny . . . giving us a deluted form of a WF glider in that one joey. I don't know much about Genetcis, so I don't know if this is even possible. Couldn't hurt to disguss it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110557
06/16/06 08:56 PM
06/16/06 08:56 PM
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Posts: 5,363
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Judie, I am not sure what is in Cereal's line. We do know this - the wfb gene he has is co-dominate. If there were Leucistic in his line, it would be recessive. The only way to know if Bailey carried the Leu gene, would be to pair him with another Leu het. That might be a possibility as Lil Dipper and him don't breed very often and she might be done at least with him. Because of the number of offspring that they had together, it is hard to get any data to back anything up as far as his gene. I will say, for a white face or any glider, he has a different kind of coat. It looks thick and short like a plush rug. None of my other gliders have that coat. Boogie, his sister has had some interesting looking joeys herself - many that exhibit a Leu het color. To my knowledge, there is no Leu in the background, but the background was never given or spoken, so we don't know. Regardless, if it was a Leu, it would be recessive. Bailey is also out of Noel - the female. Noel I believe is an Ariel glider. An Ariel Glider is from the Northern Territory of Australia. The girl I purchased her from was an employee of CCW during the summer. The parents coming from ccw stock, were a few years old when they had Noel. It is possible that Noel's parents are Ariel gliders because of the number of white tips born in that line. Noel has had one white tip, Haley is a white tip, and one of Haley's daughters. One of Bailey's sons was a white tip also. None of these were significant size tips, but they were white tips and could have something to do with this special coloration. Most people that breed for white tips treat it like a gene. I think it should be treated like a subspecies - the Ariel glider. They wouldn't take a glider like Haley and use it with a white tip male for a white tip program. I don't know of any white tip males that are also het Leus. Everything is theory at this point and without Lil Dipper and Bailey breeding, there is no backup data, but I am suspecting that Bailey is from the Ariel glider subspecies and that the two of them mating could have made a hybrid so to speak. I think that sometime these type of breedings come along like 1 in 16 so I really doubt that if Bailey and Lil Dipper could breed again, it would happen anyway. There was a story recently of a grizzly and polar bear that did this same thing. They are both bears and are two different species of bears, but did mate and produced what looked like a combination of both. This is just a theory about the breeding of subspecies together and is not proven. I know that others have tried to get the WFB with the Leu and get something and nothing came out of it except hets. I do know that the platinum gene is co-dominate so Haley has two co-dominate genes and one recessive. I do know that by pairing two white faced blonde Leu hets together you could have more of a possibility of getting a glider with two co-dominate and one recessive genes also. Sorry I can't be of more help.
BTW Leyna, Lil Dipper was a normal Leu het color. Here is the article about the Bears
Since Bailey and Lil Dipper are not breeding I have thought about trying him with Lil Dipper's sister, Pixie.

Re: Cremino [Re: ] #110558
06/16/06 09:02 PM
06/16/06 09:02 PM
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The Cremino may have been a fluke, but albino hets have special coloring also I believe. At ffr they held back gliders that had this special coloring thinking they were a different type. They had no idea that that type was an albino


ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL
Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110559
06/17/06 07:24 PM
06/17/06 07:24 PM

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I don't know anything about the gene thing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> I was just wondering what a Creameno looks like? I remember a post when I first started here about one then too. I just never saw a pic or heard what colors it was.
Sorry for butting in. Thank you
Twylite

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110560
06/17/06 09:10 PM
06/17/06 09:10 PM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I don't know anything about the gene thing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> I was just wondering what a Creameno looks like? I remember a post when I first started here about one then too. I just never saw a pic or heard what colors it was.
Sorry for butting in. Thank you
Twylite

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
http://www.glidercraze.com/Kris_site/Colors.html just saw this for the first time. Scroll down and you'll see it.

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110561
06/17/06 11:36 PM
06/17/06 11:36 PM

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Sheila, would all of the offspring exibit traits from both subspecies then? Did any of Bailey and Lil Dippers other joeys share traits from both parents. I'm not familiar enough with Hybrids to know if a combining of traits is present in all offspring or only in some.

I think I know one sure way to duplicate Haley. Get on the waiting list and get a Haley clone of our own <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Eurynome; 06/18/06 10:51 AM.
Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110562
06/17/06 11:58 PM
06/17/06 11:58 PM
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What is an Ariel glider and what does it look like? I've looked all over the internet but can't find one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110563
06/18/06 07:18 AM
06/18/06 07:18 AM

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Ariel gliders are the species of white tips found in the wild.

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110564
06/18/06 09:30 AM
06/18/06 09:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Ariel gliders are the species of white tips found in the wild.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Petaurus Breviceps Ariel is the scientific name of the sugar gliders found in the Northern Territory. As far as I am aware,there is no predominance to white tips in these particular gliders from N.T but white tips it seems are not unusual in the overall species of sugar glider in Australia. We have three white tip females ourselves and I can confirm our gliders are not Petaurus Breviceps Ariel.

Hope that helps a little.

Cheers Marz

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110565
06/18/06 01:20 PM
06/18/06 01:20 PM

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thank you ReMiX that showed me a lot. Those are pretty.

Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110566
06/18/06 01:26 PM
06/18/06 01:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
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I have a 2nd generation male that is HET for W/T. His brother has one as did several of his other siblings. I was actually thinking of a mate that is Cinnamon for him? I want a Haley too! LOL


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110567
06/18/06 01:27 PM
06/18/06 01:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
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Marz, do you have a picture of an Ariel glider? I can't find one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Platinum Genetics - Can we duplicate Haley? [Re: ] #110568
06/18/06 01:36 PM
06/18/06 01:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
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Haley looks to have a fawn almost copper coloring on her head. In her baby pics, it looks platinum colored. What color is on her head now? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
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