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PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? #117538
07/08/06 09:17 PM
07/08/06 09:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 615
USA
Crescent Offline OP
Glider Lover
Crescent  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 615
USA
I would like to know if anyone has had problems with PGA officials if
1) They did NOT have a hedgehog?
Why? PGA/hedgehog breeders had a big run-in a while back and they are rabid about hedgehogs...
2) They were NOT a breeder?
Why? breeders get lots of attention.
I want to know if they have hasseled any individuals who were just owners of pets. ???
Why? We bought Adam and Eve when we were on a 2 month vacation. When we returned to PA with our new family, we found the 'controversy' on owning them. I have made contact with vets in PA and find that there are vets who are caring for Suggies... so, gliders are here in PA. My husband and I talked to our vet today and our vet believes the PGS has overstepped their authority regarding gliders... And, from reading the posts in this section, at least one judge agrees with that point of view. Plus - I am not giving them up. We may have to move to another state; but if they have to go, we have to go... these are our BABIES!

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Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117539
07/08/06 10:05 PM
07/08/06 10:05 PM

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What is the PGA??? Pennsylvania Game Authority???? If so, they STINK in my opinion. You'd think the govt. could spend our tax money in better ways by oh, I dunno securing our borders, not teaching terrorists how to fly our planes, and educating our children, but HEY, that's just my own personal opinion.......us darn glider owners....we're such rebels.

But, to answer your question, I have read where individuals have been threatened by PGA. If they catch you they'll confiscate the animals and euthanize them and fine you. They don't care if you have hedgies or whether you breed. I think it's just a power struggle wtih them. As in, they have it and you don't. Sort of reminds me of playground bullies.....

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117540
07/08/06 10:15 PM
07/08/06 10:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
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Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
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I couldn't have said it better Suggiemom!!!!


Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
WOOOO HOOOO, WHAT A RIDE!!!


Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117541
07/09/06 08:15 AM
07/09/06 08:15 AM
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Posts: 615
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Crescent Offline OP
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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
What is the PGA??? Pennsylvania Game Authority???? But, to answer your question, I have read where individuals have been threatened by PGA. If they catch you they'll confiscate the animals and euthanize them and fine you.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
I meant PGC - Pennsylvania Game Commission.
This is what I am trying to find out. I know that they have threatened some people. I want to find out who/when they threatened people who were NOT breeders and did NOT own hedgehogs? And, are there any instances of confiscating gliders, esp. if the preson was NOT a breeder or did NOT have hedgies or other 'illegal' animals? Thanks.

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117542
07/09/06 11:27 AM
07/09/06 11:27 AM

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I have heard of them threatening people that did not own hedgehogs and who had joeys but did not sell them.

As for why... to give them someothing to do ... just like all governemtn offices.. none of which i have much faith in anymore

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117543
07/09/06 11:35 AM
07/09/06 11:35 AM

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Keep searching this forum because I do remember one story in particular where they caught a girl with them and even threatened her husbands military career because they could hurt her more that way. Like I said, nothing but a bunch of big playground bullies all grown up with high paying government jobs and too much time on their hands at OUR expense!!!

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117544
07/09/06 12:49 PM
07/09/06 12:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 615
USA
Crescent Offline OP
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Yes, I saw the post about the threat. That is "The Real Truth about Gliders in PA". They had a hedge hog, too. PGC is rabid about those because of an earlier incident in PA with a person who was breeding lots of different types of exotics. I have a suspicion that the PGC is trying to take responsibility in an area they don't have authority... I am doing some more research and may do a separate post on what I find. In the meantime - I really want to hear if there have been any hassles of non-breeders, non-hedgehog owners...

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117545
07/09/06 01:33 PM
07/09/06 01:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
Andover, Ohio
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I am only 5 mins away from PA, so I often come across owners in PA. Not too long ago, a man got caught with 2 females, they were taken by the PA game commission, and have not been returned to my knowledge. He believed her got turned in by a neighbor whom he had a fight with...

Then there is the incident mentioned above. Luckily in that case they were aloud to take them out of the state, and not be put down. Though it could have very easily went the other way.


Jennifer Chandler
Owned by sugar gliders for over 14 years
Pet Sugar Gliders
Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117546
07/09/06 01:49 PM
07/09/06 01:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 615
USA
Crescent Offline OP
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Crescent  Offline OP
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Yes, thanks - this is the kind of info I am looking for! Keep it coming!

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117547
07/22/06 11:35 PM
07/22/06 11:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
Andover, Ohio
petsugargliders Offline
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I tried calling him, and passed along your contact info...


Jennifer Chandler
Owned by sugar gliders for over 14 years
Pet Sugar Gliders
Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117548
07/23/06 12:17 PM
07/23/06 12:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 615
USA
Crescent Offline OP
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Thank you.
I am hoping that most PGA officials are not spending their time trying to manage 'Pocket Pets.' Also, I am finding that a lot of people in PA have NO IDEA of what a sugar glider even is, that may go for PGA unless the commission has training on what a sugar glider is.
Since I live in PA - I really want to know exactly how/when people have had problems. If anyone else has info on specific incidents, please pass them along to me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117549
07/25/06 03:33 AM
07/25/06 03:33 AM

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ok, heres the deal with the PA mess, i have spent long periods of time chattin with the guys at the PGC about why the laws make no sense. For the most part they are stuck with the job of regulating these critter laws because no one else wants it, they have been trying to get rid of the responsibility for years. At one point the legislature tried to pass it on to the dept of agriculture but they don't want it either so i believe it is currently tied up in legal limbo. The game commission seems like it tries to do a job that even it knows it is not qualified to do and has no motivation to do better. As always it comes down to money, the game commission is underfunded to begin with but especially in the area of training and maintaining laws involving illegal animals. so if you have a problem with it write your legislators!!!! hey maybe someone could even set up a site or group to do just that. Places like myspace make it easy to do, and this is a situation that could use a kick in the rear to get it moving!!!!

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117550
07/25/06 06:46 PM
07/25/06 06:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 615
USA
Crescent Offline OP
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Crescent  Offline OP
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USA
The problem with protesting, my protesting anyway, is that I have gliders. I don't want to be the 'showcase' person. If have seen what happened when the hedgehog people went toe to toe with them... the PGC's feathers were ruffled and they made it a big deal. My current thinking is that there have been some isolated instances where people have been hassled, but that most PGC officials try to find the real problems - poachers, etc. I think most PGC wouldn't know a glider if they saw one. They don't exactly come off as a dangerous-must-be-controlled type of animal. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117551
07/25/06 09:51 PM
07/25/06 09:51 PM

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The problem with situations like these is that its sort of like rent-a-cops.....most of them might do their job exactly as it's intended, but there is always one greasy headed guy with thick glasses and a gun...thinking he's sooo much bigger and badder than he really is cuz he's wearing that uniform and those types of people like to throw their proverbial weight around just because they can. So, even though there are always one or two PGA officials willing to leave a glider owner alone because they're not really doing anything to bother anyone or anything, you can bet there are 10 that will nail you to the wall for it just cause they can.

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117552
07/25/06 10:13 PM
07/25/06 10:13 PM

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OK so I just emailed the people in charge of all this garbage since I spent the better part of the night researching this topic. When I get some more information I will pass it on. I did several searches on the game commission web site and unless it is some obscure law that nobody has heard of the person I wrote to should be able to clear things up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117553
08/04/06 01:11 AM
08/04/06 01:11 AM

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This is the person you would need to talk to,
"Please contact the Bureau of Law Enforcement at 717-787-5740 and ask to speak with Ed Steffan."

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117554
08/08/06 06:09 PM
08/08/06 06:09 PM

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Hi, I havent posted for quiet some time, but this one caught my eye so I thought I would! I am the girl mentioned above who got in trouble for owning sugar gliders! They did indeed threaten my husband military career, saying they would put all the fines in his name so he could not go active duty! Anyways the man told me that if anyone had a problem with the legality of sugar gliders and hedgehogs in Pa to contact him! His name is Mark Allegro He is out of the Franklin, PA office! To be honest he really couldnt tell me a reason why they were not legal, just that I could get felonys from it, for transporting illegal animals, keeping illegal animals, illegal transactions on the internet, (since I called adds to purchase them that I found online). Thank god, I was able to rehome them, and since I did so quickly I got $288 in fines for transporting wild animals into the state of PA! For me the outcome was good and bad! My family is very sad that we had to part with our beloved pets, but atleast they are still alive! If you have questions about there legality, I would rehome them now and ask the questions later! PGC starts checking into it as soon as you start asking questions!

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117555
08/08/06 08:46 PM
08/08/06 08:46 PM

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Awww, it really stinks that you had to go through that and again, I say that PA ought to be ashamed of themselves that they're wasting tax dollars chasing down pet owners. What is the crime rate in PA? I'm guessing those tax dollars would be much better spent else where!!! Oh, I dunno....feed a few hungry children maybe?

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117556
08/09/06 01:33 AM
08/09/06 01:33 AM

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This is a little off topic but perhaps relative:
Crescent, is Crescent Dragonwagon (formerly Ellen) your real name or is it merely a user name here?

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117557
08/10/06 09:38 PM
08/10/06 09:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 615
USA
Crescent Offline OP
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Posts: 615
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alarics_mama:
Thanks for your response. I read the entire post on your situation. I am so sorry that happened to you. I understand you had hedgies, too. I know the PGA is rabid about hedgies. They went toe to toe with a breeder and it left a lasting bad taste in their mouth. They will hassle people with hedgies, I know. I am trying to find instances, if any, where they hassled people who did not own hedgies. ???

superdonia:
I am not sure why you asked me to ""Please contact the Bureau of Law Enforcement at 717-787-5740 and ask to speak with Ed Steffan." I sent a PM asking you why you wanted me to contact them and did not get an answer. I am NOT going to start asking questions and have people come check me out!

jungleflockmom:
Crescent Dragonwagon is not my real name. :-) I won't be posting any real information on this board... just in case officials cruise the board. Maybe they do. But, it seems to me that they are not being aggressive... at least, I am aware of MANY gliders in PA & am having trouble hearing about instances of aggression.

But, I have visions in my head of the PGC storming town by town - coming in in full army armor, knocking on door after door to search out the 'dangerous sugar glider,' leading the owners out in handcuffs... Mothers separated from their children, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth. OH, well. You get the picture. Hopefully, that won't be me. If so, I will have to post my real name & you can send me nice cards while I am in jail. In the meantime, I have emergency plans to make sure the gliders are taken care of. My legal aide is standing by. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #117558
08/20/06 11:19 AM
08/20/06 11:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
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[:"green"]Upon my last USDA inspection, the inspector who came to the house was from PA. I asked her about why gliders are illegal in PA and she said that it was a knee-jerk reaction to a disease that primarily affects monkeys but has been known to affect other small mammals as well (sorry, I can't remember the name of the disease). Therefore, all exotic small mammals were put on the illegal list for PA - in the hopes of curbing the epizootic (animal epidemic) that was sweeping through PA at the time.


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Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: sugarglidersuz] #166381
11/03/06 06:11 PM
11/03/06 06:11 PM

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"I asked her about why gliders are illegal in PA and she said that it was a knee-jerk reaction to a disease that primarily affects monkeys but has been known to affect other small mammals as well (sorry, I can't remember the name of the disease)."

It's called the monkeypox, it's alot like smallpox but milder and a few extra symptoms.

I have to agree that it's stupid that sugar gliders arent legal in PA. But soon, after this whole mini-zoo thing is over (it's the biggest issue currently) they'll probably begin handing out permits to people. Although I heard they'll be pretty hard to get ahold of, it's better then nothing....

DON'T STOP FIGHTING! If we just stop after the permits are out, we'll never get suggies completly legal frown

Don't stop fighting, but don't keep complaining, do something about it! (No offence purposly posted)

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #167185
11/05/06 11:46 PM
11/05/06 11:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,354
Lexington, KY
Lucy Offline
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Lexington, KY
Just a small point - unless my memory is really off, the illegality of gliders in Pennsylvania predated the monkeypox scare by at least a couple of years. I first heard of them being illegal the summer of 2001, and the monkeypox "epidemic" didn't happen until 2003. Not that any of this matters, but I don't think that's why they're illegal. I think it's more likely to be Pennsylvania having a look at other laws, like the Cleveland law that was used as a model for exotic animals in lots of locales, and Massachusetts, which outlawed gliders and other exotics earlier.



Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: Lucy] #390850
10/02/07 12:21 PM
10/02/07 12:21 PM

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DanceofWhiteSta
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Suggiemom, I like your examples on ways the tax dollars could be spent, personally. They were quite funny, but, true. A friend of mine his kid was told by the guidance cosellors drop out of high school and year after year they were passing him with failing grades. He was not old enough to drop out and they neglected to even get a parental signiture. What about no child left behind program?

But there are some areas with high crime rates philly and now the ever growing williamsport (known as 'lil' philly). I was in philly for a weekend and a cop cut me off on a red light(with out his lights on), he Just ran the red light and almost caused an accident. He then preceded to exit his car and scream about how we almost killed him then he left. We recieved no ticket( of course we did no wrong).

Another amusing thing which I will give no names and it was a while ago. Someone was gifted a certain wildlife of pa to rehabilitate. Which was obtained though a PGC officer. Who took a bet with the man who gifted it to her that it would die in a week. Which she is proud to say it grew and it was the most wonderful, happy and healthy character.

Last edited by DanceofWhiteSta; 10/02/07 12:22 PM.
Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #612469
08/14/08 11:51 PM
08/14/08 11:51 PM

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MHoppes
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MHoppes
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I will admit I'm coming in a little late on this topic. But cAn someone show me where the exact verbage is that bans SGs? So far the only thing I've seen is a law which looks like it could be interpreted as the wind blows and could include such things as tropical fish or some horses!

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #615525
08/18/08 08:52 PM
08/18/08 08:52 PM

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MHoppes
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Originally Posted By: superdonia
ok, heres the deal with the PA mess, i have spent long periods of time chattin with the guys at the PGC about why the laws make no sense. For the most part they are stuck with the job of regulating these critter laws because no one else wants it, they have been trying to get rid of the responsibility for years. At one point the legislature tried to pass it on to the dept of agriculture but they don't want it either so i believe it is currently tied up in legal limbo. The game commission seems like it tries to do a job that even it knows it is not qualified to do and has no motivation to do better. As always it comes down to money, the game commission is underfunded to begin with but especially in the area of training and maintaining laws involving illegal animals. so if you have a problem with it write your legislators!!!! hey maybe someone could even set up a site or group to do just that. Places like myspace make it easy to do, and this is a situation that could use a kick in the rear to get it moving!!!!


Stay tuned... this is about to happen...

Re: PA - Problems w/PGA officials when? [Re: ] #615528
08/18/08 08:53 PM
08/18/08 08:53 PM

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MHoppes
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MHoppes
Unregistered
M



In reference to my above post about 'this is about to happen', does anyone have any suggie pictures that I could use to decorate what is about to happen? (5 or 6 for a non-profit web-site dedicated to the legalization of PA sugar gliders).

I don't currently own any suggies are I'd use my own pictures smile

If you PM me, I'll send my e-mail address.


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