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Giardia
#1201923
12/08/11 09:33 AM
12/08/11 09:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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It's just one thing after the other..this is insane. My boy was taken to the vet and they ran a fecal test on him since he had a prolapsed "manhood". They said they thought they saw something weird and they would call me back. Well, I ended up having to call them back and they said "It's giardia. It's pretty common. That's why you were sent home with the flagyl". Maverick has been on it for 2 days now, but before he was seperated he was housed with 3 other gliders. I have to assume they have it too. I have enough medication for all of them, but what should I do?!
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1201925
12/08/11 09:44 AM
12/08/11 09:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219 Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Mar 2010
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Washington D.C. Metro Area
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Thankfully, we have never had it here in our house. But...I know it can be difficult to get rid of. Chances are good, if he was housed with three others, that they have it too. Either way, they should be treated (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this one).
There's a rather extensive protocol for getting rid of it. You'll need to clean like you've never cleaned before. lol Bleach ALL cage items and try to use less things in the cage to minimize transfer of the Giardia. Giardia spreads rapidly by poor hygiene (gliders aren't always the best for this lol) and is a "poop to mouth" problem. A glider comes in contact with poop and it grooms itself, or another or comes in contact with contaminated food/water. It's a vicious cycle. I'd use bottled water for now and you can also use a cage cover so that things are a bit more contained. Just remember that you will need to also wash that daily.
Use gloves when you clean - Giardia CAN be spread to humans, as well so it's important you use good hygiene as you clean, as well. And, be sure to wash well and change clothes after you've come in contact with the cage and/or gliders that are affected.
If you have other gliders in your home that have NOT been exposed - keep them in a separate room and do a very, very strict quarantine procedure.
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1201927
12/08/11 09:47 AM
12/08/11 09:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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I have fosters that have not been in contact with them, but I may take them for a vet visit in case something happened...thank you
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1201937
12/08/11 10:23 AM
12/08/11 10:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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It's just hard news on top of Maverick's problem, but thank you.
Last edited by BlackDrappa; 12/08/11 10:25 AM.
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1201943
12/08/11 10:40 AM
12/08/11 10:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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oh...just call me the cleaning machine from now on! I'm going to get them bottle water as well. And a new water bottle just to be safe (maybe a silo). Do you know the bleach to water ratio for cleaning the cage?
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1201951
12/08/11 10:54 AM
12/08/11 10:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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Ok, well thanks for you advice to far! It's helped me calm down a lot. This is doable! And they all are acting normal and are hydrated so that's a BIG plus as well.
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1201985
12/08/11 12:09 PM
12/08/11 12:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748 Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
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Vincennes, IN, USA
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Yes, the other gliders will need to be dosed as well BUT, because their weights will be different, call your vet with the exact weight of each and get a dosage specific for each glider. I've been thru treating for giardia before. It's a pain but as Aimee said, it's very treatable and doable. I used two hospital cages (they're only 3' tall instead of 5' and easier for me to clean) and two sets of cage stuff ( wheels, toys, feeding dishes, water bottle, pouches, etc.) Each morning, I would medicate the gliders and put them into the "clean" cage. I then sprayed the cage, wheel and toys with bleach, let them all set in the tub for 10 minutes, then sprayed clean with hot water for 5 minutes. I set the cage and contents outside to air dry. In the evening, I would switch the gliders to the clean cage and follow the same cleaning procedure for the one I just took them out of. I soaked their sleeping pouches in hot soapy bleach water until the water cooled, then hand washed them before putting them into the washer. Definitely dry in the dryer instead of air dry, as this helps kill the giardia. It helps immensely to have no fleece toys in either cage while you're treating for giardia. Be sure to do follow up fecals, as giardia is difficult to catch. I'm so glad your vet caught it in time!
Connie 812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues SmallWorldSuggies"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward" "Glide free Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
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Re: Giardia
[Re: suggiemom1980]
#1201986
12/08/11 12:12 PM
12/08/11 12:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219 Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
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Washington D.C. Metro Area
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Yes, the other gliders will need to be dosed as well BUT, because their weights will be different, call your vet with the exact weight of each and get a dosage specific for each glider.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Thank you, Connie, for pointing that out - I didn't even think to mention that. This is VERY important!
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1201988
12/08/11 12:19 PM
12/08/11 12:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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They're calling me later with an estimate on an amputation so I will ask them about dosage then. I unfortunately don't have an extra cage, so I guess I will just clean it every day. Did you use colar safe bleach for the pouches?
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1201992
12/08/11 12:26 PM
12/08/11 12:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748 Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Mar 2007
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I used regular bleach and pouches that I didn't care if they got bleached out or not. Because I have so many gliders, each cage has a zippered bonding pouch in case I need to grab all gliders and head for the hills (or basement)! I do have sleeping pouches that I use when getting gliders ready to go to new homes and for the hospital cages. If you don't want to take a chance of ruining your pouches, get some c- links, poke a hole in each corner of a piece of fleece, run the c- links thru the holes and hang the fleece as you would a hammock. If it gets bleached out, it won't bother you as it would of it was one of your sleeping pouches.
Connie 812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues SmallWorldSuggies"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward" "Glide free Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202001
12/08/11 12:38 PM
12/08/11 12:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 360 Southern Illinois
rach
Glider Lover
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Posts: 360
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Man I hope my gliders never get this as it seems so hard to get rid of.
Raychell Stayton My Daria Maddox Nadia Sampson
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202011
12/08/11 12:53 PM
12/08/11 12:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310 Northwest Missouri
Chris_R
Glider Explorer
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Northwest Missouri
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Metronidazole (Flagyl) has a high risk of toxicity to sugar gliders, as the body is slow to bio-transform it is stored in the fat cells and leached back in for biotransformation, if the doses are to big it will dump suddenly and that causes a whole host of issues, from shut down of the major organs to seizures and even death... its imperitive to make sure your vet has all weights to accurately dose it
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Re: Giardia
[Re: Chris_R]
#1202012
12/08/11 12:54 PM
12/08/11 12:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748 Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
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1 part bleach to 10 parts water... dont throw your fleece straight into the washing machine as all that will do is spread the eggs around to subsequent loads, I recommend boiling for 10 minutes (depending on the virulence of the strain I have seen eggs still viable at the 8 minute mark).. Giardia loves moisture but hates direct sunlight, it can live in soil for months/years.. I allow all things to dry in the sunlight Items that cant be boiled will need to soak in hot water bleach bath for 20-30 minutes and then direct sunlight (move around every few hours to make sure the sun hits ever little area) a good steam cleaner will cut your cleaning time down remarkably
another key to successfully treat Giardia is allowing the proper time to go by before re-testing... Giardia is extremely stealthy, an animals immune system can keep the numbers down to unmeasurable numbers until a stessor takes place to lower the immune system and then the Giardia is able to take back over, so from the last day of treatment until re-testing for it, I reccommend waiting 21 days, that is the life cycle of most parasites, meaning its 21 days from hatching until the adult larva are mature enough to start producing eggs... Chris, thank you so much for giving this information! It's been years since I had to deal with giardia and that was what my vet told me to do at the time. Since then, she and I have both learned so much about gliders, but neither of us has had to deal with giardia in them again, so we didn't check on an updated method. Eddie, maybe we could make a sticky from this information???
Connie 812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues SmallWorldSuggies"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward" "Glide free Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202014
12/08/11 12:58 PM
12/08/11 12:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310 Northwest Missouri
Chris_R
Glider Explorer
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Glider Explorer
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Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
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I have known people to buy UV lights (grow lights) that did not have outside areas to get everything dried properly, the key is it will need a few hours in each position to make sure all areas (esp corners etc) get the light.. You can boil your pouches/fleece items and then wash and dry them in the dryer, the boiling will kill the ova/cysts (ie eggs)
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202019
12/08/11 01:04 PM
12/08/11 01:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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Ok, thank you. So is it likely that the first round of meds won't do it then? Edited to add: It's just funny that my vet said it's common and very easy to treat...didn't say anything about cleaning..just to medicate.
Last edited by BlackDrappa; 12/08/11 01:09 PM.
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202029
12/08/11 01:32 PM
12/08/11 01:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 220 Alabama
clreaves07
Glider Explorer
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 220
Alabama
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How do gliders contract giardia? Reason being, mine don't have contact with anything outside of their cage except for me. Is it possible to have it on you and pass it to the gliders?
Candy
Slave owner to Alvin, Minnie, and Honey.
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202033
12/08/11 01:48 PM
12/08/11 01:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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Would the heat of a hair dryer kill the eggs?
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202048
12/08/11 02:52 PM
12/08/11 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 255 Cincy
Thumper
Glider Explorer
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Cincy
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Chris-Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a while since I did any research in this area but when I did I was under the impression that treatment (meds & cleaning) was done for 5 days then off for 3 and repeated until the follow up tests come back negative. Retesting done every 2 weeks? On the cleaning, I was also under the impression that items (incl cages) should be soaked for a minimum of 20-30 minutes then rinsed well.
clreaves07-You can pick up giardia and pass it on to your animals. This is one reason why it's so important to wash hands often.
BlackDrappa-I really don't think the heat from a hair dryer is hot enough to kill the eggs. There are some steam cleaners that claim they can disinfect but I don't trust them myself. Some people do though.
Bobbi Jade, Kea, JimBob, Topaz, Sunny, Bruce, Selena, Harlan, Airyelle, George, Gracie and Pugsley.
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202074
12/08/11 03:57 PM
12/08/11 03:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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This is all very confusing. There is only so much to do because the room the gliders are in has a rug and I only have the cages that the gliders are in. I'm throwing out their old tent because it's a piece of junk anyways. I'm going to do the soaking of the cage and the boiling of the pouches, toys, etc. I'm just concerned because my one glider, Maverick, is in a soft sided, pvc, mesh dog kennel for now until his prolapse heals. And probably for a couple extra days since he is a couple days ahead of the treatment of my other three...I'm wondering if it will clean properly.
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202078
12/08/11 04:12 PM
12/08/11 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 255 Cincy
Thumper
Glider Explorer
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Cincy
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I've soaked my pop up dog kennels in bleach/water too.
Bobbi Jade, Kea, JimBob, Topaz, Sunny, Bruce, Selena, Harlan, Airyelle, George, Gracie and Pugsley.
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Re: Giardia
[Re: Thumper]
#1202084
12/08/11 04:27 PM
12/08/11 04:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310 Northwest Missouri
Chris_R
Glider Explorer
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Chris-Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a while since I did any research in this area but when I did I was under the impression that treatment (meds & cleaning) was done for 5 days then off for 3 and repeated until the follow up tests come back negative. Retesting done every 2 weeks? On the cleaning, I was also under the impression that items (incl cages) should be soaked for a minimum of 20-30 minutes then rinsed well.
clreaves07-You can pick up giardia and pass it on to your animals. This is one reason why it's so important to wash hands often.
BlackDrappa-I really don't think the heat from a hair dryer is hot enough to kill the eggs. There are some steam cleaners that claim they can disinfect but I don't trust them myself. Some people do though. No, treatment for Giardia is with Flagyl for at least 7 but most of the time 10 days. The more resistant strains are requiring a combo treatment of Metronidazole (Flagyl) followed with 3-5 days of Panacur, then for accurate testing you need to wait 21 days from the last day of oral treatment drugs before testing, as before then the antibiotics/parasitics can produce a false negative as the numbers arent there to show positive The heat from a blow dryer is not sufficient to kill Giardia cysts, as I stated above, with the virulent Colorado river basin outbreak, I observed cysts that were still viable after 8 minutes of boiling..... Cysts are sticky, they adhere to just about everything they come in contact with, its very possible to say, walk your dog in a dog park and get some cysts on your shoes and take it home to your other animals Giardia is zoonotic, it can spread from animals to humans and back again... It is VITAL to wash your hands, paying special attention to under nail area etc for the entire Twinkle Twinkle Little Star song (thats about the length of time for a proper hand washing)
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Re: Giardia
[Re: Chris_R]
#1202125
12/08/11 06:47 PM
12/08/11 06:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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Thank you Chris. Sorry, I'm just very clueless when it comes to this. I very much appreciate you expertise.
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1202218
12/08/11 10:41 PM
12/08/11 10:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310 Northwest Missouri
Chris_R
Glider Explorer
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Your vet may just be of the generation that think that Giardia is a "naturally" occuring organism or that some Giardia will always be present, while this may be true for some animals (beavers are known to be carriers and are seldom made sick by the parasite, also why Giardia is also known as "Beaver Fever"), I do not believe it to be so with Sugar Gliders. The same thing occurs with Baylisacaris, which is a roundworm that is host specific to Raccoons, it very seldom will make a Raccoon sick but if that same parasite gets into another host (say a opossum or even a human) it gets "confused", migrates and often ends up in the brain of the host, thus killing them Giardia has many different strains, some have mutated and become stronger, more virulent and resistant to treatment. Much the same with antibiotic resistant bacteria like MRSA, this can be linked to it being exposed but not totally irraticated by a complete treatment (either treatment wasnt long enough or patient did not finish up because they were feeling better) that is why it is so important to always finish all of your meds as prescribed, not doing so can and WILL make for stronger more resistant strains. Think of these as living creatures if you will, and they FIGHT to stay alive, they learn from past things they are exposed to, and they make a better plan, they build a heavier suit of armor, to better withstand the next battle.... I wish you luck in your war you have an awesome battle plan and should have no problems winning this war if you stick to it!!!!
Last edited by Chris_R; 12/08/11 10:45 PM.
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Re: Giardia
[Re: Chris_R]
#1202357
12/09/11 10:22 AM
12/09/11 10:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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Yes, its the UV from the sunlight that is able to penetrate and kill the cysts, not the heat from sunlight that is why the grow lamps work also, remember to move them around every few hours to get the sunlight into the corners etc Oh yay! Thanks That's what I'll do then.
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1206947
12/20/11 01:10 PM
12/20/11 01:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 107 Hamburg, NY
BlackDrappa
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So far we got a negative retest. We're going back in 3 weeks to get another test. Keep your fingers crossed for my babies! And thanks again for all the advice, especially you Chris!
-*-Tiffany-*- Maverick, Nike, Nyx & Castiel
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Re: Giardia
[Re: BlackDrappa]
#1206958
12/20/11 01:40 PM
12/20/11 01:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 353 TN
JazzNZoeysMom
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LuvMyGliderBabies Jasper Zoey Mala Kodah Ariana And the twins~ Aerwen Caci
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Re: Giardia
[Re: JazzNZoeysMom]
#1206967
12/20/11 02:18 PM
12/20/11 02:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884 Wyoming
tbull
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Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
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Hoping for more negatives!
T~ www.lovegliders.com** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup ** *Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*
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