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Why pellet diets = neglect = abuse! #1359082
12/05/13 07:03 PM
12/05/13 07:03 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 52
Tucson, AZ
suggie_mama Offline OP
Out of Pouch
suggie_mama  Offline OP
Out of Pouch

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 52
Tucson, AZ


The reason I am posting this here, is to see the drastic difference it makes to feed your sugar gliders a proven diet filled with fresh produce & proteins. I feel that it is much more than mere "preference" and that people should be ok with the choice of others to feed a pellet/apple diet. I feel that it is actual abuse. You wouldn't feed a dog birdseed. You would not feed your human child dog kibble. Why on earth would you feed an exotic marsupial a diet not even suitable for a hamster or dog?

This is Brownie. She came to me from a rescue situation. Rather than getting proper quarantine & introductions, she was thrown in a tiny rat cage with 2 older existing 3 year old female gliders who would bite her face & not allow her to eat or sleep in the one single pouch with them. Her tail is severed off, and my vet confirmed it was likely a result of a bite wound. She was sleeping on the floor of the cage outside on a cold porch with a heat rock for what was likely over a year. Her spirit was completely broken, and she had no idea gliders OR people could love her. It has been only a month of her on the HPW diet, and she has shown such drastic improvements in health & behavior. She was an instant bond, even quicker than it took my other 2 that I'd raised from the time they were joeys. She is a little lap glider, and will sit quietly on my arm for hours, purring, as I work at the computer.

Without supplements or medicine, the HPW diet cured her hind leg paralysis, changed her temperament from miserable & wanting to die, to happy, and made her fur soft, un-matted & 3-4 shades lighter.

If your sugar gliders are acting wild & you feel like they will never bond to you, I encourage you to simply try the HPW diet or other proven diet, regardless of what mill breeders say while trying to steal your money. Remember, it's not your fault if you have no idea and innocently follow instructions after buying one at a fair or pet shop, but you ARE responsible if you find out later on via research & stick to what you've been doing, ignoring facts & ignoring your pet's obvious discomfort & declining health.

Attached Files
brown.jpg (37 downloads)

Danielle
gangel AZ Pocket Angels Pet Rescue, Ferret Friends Inc
Devoted sugar mama to :wfb: Orbitty, :bb: Munchkee, :grey: Brownie & :bb: Niblett
- 6 ferrets: Falcor, Little Poo, Oona, Luna, Ziggy, Bubbles
- Lola & Ludo the dogs
- :rbridge: Rikki, Tavi & Izzy our beloved ferrets. In my heart forever
Re: Why pellet diets = neglect = abuse! [Re: suggie_mama] #1359083
12/05/13 07:04 PM
12/05/13 07:04 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 52
Tucson, AZ
suggie_mama Offline OP
Out of Pouch
suggie_mama  Offline OP
Out of Pouch

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 52
Tucson, AZ
PS: Please click on the attachment for a larger photo so that you can see the before & after, and read the caption smile


Danielle
gangel AZ Pocket Angels Pet Rescue, Ferret Friends Inc
Devoted sugar mama to :wfb: Orbitty, :bb: Munchkee, :grey: Brownie & :bb: Niblett
- 6 ferrets: Falcor, Little Poo, Oona, Luna, Ziggy, Bubbles
- Lola & Ludo the dogs
- :rbridge: Rikki, Tavi & Izzy our beloved ferrets. In my heart forever
Re: Why pellet diets = neglect = abuse! [Re: suggie_mama] #1359093
12/05/13 07:46 PM
12/05/13 07:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,091
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,091
North Central Ohio
Very nice improvement!

I do not promote the use of pellets as a primary staple, regardless of what kind the are, but I'm not so sure I agree with the statement in your caption that
Quote:
...feeding them pellet diet with apples will eventually result in costly vet bills and death.


It is very apparent with as many gliders we have seen that pellets are not ideal and some do cause major staining and stronger odors. However, I don't believe there has ever been proof that the pellets alone have caused costly vet bills or death in a sugar glider. I believe there would have been other contributing factors.

Again, I do not condone pellets. But if one were to offer them, a little in the cage for a snack and dental hygiene of a high quality pellet is not a bad thing.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Why pellet diets = neglect = abuse! [Re: GliderNursery] #1359102
12/05/13 09:03 PM
12/05/13 09:03 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 52
Tucson, AZ
suggie_mama Offline OP
Out of Pouch
suggie_mama  Offline OP
Out of Pouch

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 52
Tucson, AZ
Brownie says "thank you!". She is finally feeling good about herself smile

In Brownie's case, there were several other contributing factors, including the lack of proper introductions to the existing colony of 2 other females, small cage dimensions, cleanliness issues, and outdoor housing on a porch, around 15 cats.

The pellets when given regularly, are proven to cause mild to severe calcium deficiency, lumpy jaw (and dental abscesses), intestinal blockage & renal failure, especially the Tropical Attitudes "Glider Grub" formula in particular. What I meant was a "pellet-based diet" will lead to complications resulting in vet bills and death. I've had vet-approved confirmation from an exotics vet who personally owns a colony of sugar gliders, that the pellets are the most dangerous factor out of all the negative & improper care advice given from mill breeders & fair vendors.

I do agree that it's definitely ok for a treat, but I prefer to use an organic, hypoallergenic, grain-free all-meat piece of my dog's food for that purpose, extremely occasionally. I am not too certain that there are any corn-free, gluten-free pellets on the market for sugar gliders. Fresh carrots & other very crunchy veggies daily, do the trick for dental wellness as well. A fresh, not frozen, diet really helps keep their pearly whites all polished up smile

I have had this experience with ferrets too, where kibble food killed my 2 elderly babies due to the fact that it causes renal failure. It was the #1 highly recommended, most expensive, supposedly organic, grain-free food on the market for ferrets (Wysong Ferret Epigen 90). After costly 24hr emergency vet bills, confirmed cause of death was from the kibble, which caused intestinal blockages and full renal failure. Very painful way to go too... both ferrets & sugar gliders are not meant to eat dry foods on a continuous basis. After that, none of my babies get food that is made by anyone other than myself as a large percentage of their diet. I even do boiled chicken and supplements for my dog & ferrets, as their main source of nutrition.


Danielle
gangel AZ Pocket Angels Pet Rescue, Ferret Friends Inc
Devoted sugar mama to :wfb: Orbitty, :bb: Munchkee, :grey: Brownie & :bb: Niblett
- 6 ferrets: Falcor, Little Poo, Oona, Luna, Ziggy, Bubbles
- Lola & Ludo the dogs
- :rbridge: Rikki, Tavi & Izzy our beloved ferrets. In my heart forever
Re: Why pellet diets = neglect = abuse! [Re: suggie_mama] #1359114
12/06/13 02:51 AM
12/06/13 02:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
I will just put a comment in here, that though I definitely think gliders enjoy the variety and interest of a fresh diet. I did know a breeder that fed ONLY a pellet diet throughout his ownership of gliders.

I used to argue with him about how important it was to offer fresh foods rather than just pellet and one day he asked me if I thought his gliders were unhealthy (no they were not), if the joey I had adopted from him was unhealthy or there was anything wrong with her (Kira was beautiful, sweet and perfect, so no). He said his gliders had very healthy joeys, all were good weights and body condition (all true) and moms supported their joeys just fine. At that point, I shut up and never bugged him about it again.

It is a pellet I keep on hand in case of emergencies, because yes - I know that my gliders can live on it and even do great (he had several that made it to 9+ and this was years ago).

Am I a proponent of a pellet only diet? Not necessarily, though for some people and their gliders they are a better option than some other things. I believe that pellets have their place, depending on which one we are talking about. There are also some really terrible pellet diets out there. People need to do their research and talk to others that feed the diets.

My point here is simply that we need to be really careful about sweeping black and white statements. If I have learned nothing else in my years of glider ownership - it is that owning gliders is mostly some shade of gray...any I'm not just talking their fur. wink


I am very sorry for what Brownie has gone through and clearly the diet she was on was not one she could thrive on. It is also worth mentioning that it does not sound like the diet alone was the issue, though. Her living situation and her not being able to eat an adequate amount surely added to everything her body was going through.

I do think these kinds of things need to be discussed and the specific facts of a situation explained. I have just seen so much 'Pellets are BAD...always' kinds of posting over the years and I know that to not be true. I am very glad she found her way to you and I so did not mean to come across as abrasive or anything like that.


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Why pellet diets = neglect = abuse! [Re: suggie_mama] #1359122
12/06/13 03:27 AM
12/06/13 03:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
I agree with Gretchen. It is the same with dog and cat kibble. While I think a "raw" diet is best for dogs and cats, I accept that some people just cant do it. And there are some good cat and dog kibbles out there, and some that are pure garbage.

Animals are no different than people and you may get some whose metabolism needs one thing and another whose needs are different. Just like some humans can eat junk and still be skinny and I eat lettuce and gain weight.

In my own home, the gliders are all fed the same and they are all healthy and active and thriving, but because of genetics and whatever, some have plush gorgeous coats and one has a slightly crackly coat.

do I promote an all pellet diet? No. But I also agree with Gretchen that blanket statements are usually harsh and not the whole truth. Many look at my own figure and will say, "oh she is overweight and doesnt eat right and exercise" WRONG! just as wrong as someone who says "oh her glider has cracked fur it must be not fed properly" WRONG!

So, I would say that feeding pellets isnt the best diet out there, and would encourage them to find a more...wholesome diet plan, but I wouldnt equate it with pure abuse.


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Why pellet diets = neglect = abuse! [Re: suggie_mama] #1359153
12/06/13 04:54 PM
12/06/13 04:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,099
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,099
Wisconsin
I would tend to agree that the pellet and a bit of apple would be a terrible diet.

Have you seen the gliders the PP guys have? Only their newest additions (joeys) are beautiful grey, all of the other ones are brown.

I think pellets can be used in an emergency, I myself keep them in the cage at all times in case I am late getting home, but my gliders get their regular HPW diet every night.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Why pellet diets = neglect = abuse! [Re: sugarlope] #1359163
12/06/13 09:37 PM
12/06/13 09:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,091
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,091
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: sugarlope
My point here is simply that we need to be really careful about sweeping black and white statements. If I have learned nothing else in my years of glider ownership - it is that owning gliders is mostly some shade of gray...any I'm not just talking their fur. wink


:agreed:


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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