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plastics and chemical toxicities #1389073
04/17/15 10:00 AM
04/17/15 10:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 57
Canada Ontario outside of the ...
alixdor Offline OP
Out of Pouch
alixdor  Offline OP
Out of Pouch

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 57
Canada Ontario outside of the ...
Hello, it's me asking yet another question. Sorry everyone, I am such a glider newbie. I thought I was well informed but you guys are like glider encyclopedias smile

Does anyone know, or can list which plastics and chemicals are toxic to sugar gliders?

I know PVC is used in custom cages a lot but is it toxic once plasticized? (as in flexible PVC)

Acrylic? Silicone? Is none-galvinized stainless steal safe? so many chemicals in this world, not enough resources to sift through.


Mum to Eva & Brie
Bengals Nala & Simba
Gecko Galileo Galilee & 4 babies
Hedgehog Gandalf
Chihuahua Milou
Bettas Pablo Picasso & M.C. Escher
Cockatiel Charles Darwin
Suggies
:wfb: Tesla, Ollie & Akbar The Great :bb: Loki & Kaiya :leu: Grace Kelly :grey: Omeo :plat: Audrey Hepburn
Current Research, Studies & Resources
Re: plastics and chemical toxicities [Re: alixdor] #1389112
04/18/15 09:40 AM
04/18/15 09:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Galvanized wire is not glider safe. Not only is their zinc in the coating to reduce rusting but the coating process often leaves many tiny sharp points on the surface of the wire that can scratch or cut gliders paws as they climb. Gliders also tent to rub their bellies and the cloaca on the cage as they mark their territory. Cuts or scratches of the cloaca can cause infections that might require vet care and antibiotics.

Some PVC coated wires have been very toxic to sugar gliders. It is difficult to tell which are or are not safe since the manufacturer is often not listed on the product. Most of go with over caution and would not use a PVC coated wire for our gliders.

Silicone (like the material used for fish tanks) is probably safe after it is fully cured, but I would not put it where a glider might be tempted to pull away pieces of it.

The plastic hardware cloth sold in the garden section of Lowes and Home Depot is most often used for glider cages because it is sturdy and is known to be safe for gliders.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tenax-3-ft-x-...6N8GxoCHAXw_wcB


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: plastics and chemical toxicities [Re: CandyOtte] #1389115
04/18/15 12:14 PM
04/18/15 12:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 57
Canada Ontario outside of the ...
alixdor Offline OP
Out of Pouch
alixdor  Offline OP
Out of Pouch

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 57
Canada Ontario outside of the ...
THANK YOU. :D
I'm ordering high quality acrylic rods straight from a manufacturer in Ottawa which I will weld to make a custom grill for the gliders to climb on. How big should I go in terms of gaging? I was thinking 1/8 of and inch. The next size up is 1/4 inch, seems too big for their paws.

I have 100% natural silicone at my disposal, I love using it so I'm happy to hear it is safe. It's extremely high quality silicon, only a thin layer is required and fussing is extremely strong, I can't even pull pieces of myself. Cheaper silicone though would be a bad idea I think. Doesn't adhered as well.

I was thinking cheap MDF board silicone painted to water proof it and have a poster printed instead of a banner which I can laminated to the MDF with a layer of acrylic laminate? over top of that I will build my acrylic rod grill, that way you can see the back ground and the gliders can climb. I can also more easily chance toys and shelves etc around to keep things fresh? It'll all be removable like a normal cage too.

The top is all gridded with my custom grill again and the base (which I still haven't figured out how to make) will have a 4inch plumbers pvc grid with only 1/4inch openings, I was going to silicone smoothed pebbles to the grid and have it come up through the base (the stones would camouflage it). I will have pvc and driver piping underneath with a backwards low power fan in the piping. This would created ventilation and constant air flow from top to bottom. I find sucking air out of the cage rather then blowing it in is much warmer and gentle for warmth needing animals. What do you think?

And any suggestions on how, or what material I should use to make the base tub (only like 2 inches deep) I was going to order PVC panels from the manufacturer in town and fuse pieces along all three sides with epoxy then silicone over like in an aquarium so the epoxy can never be exposed. But after reading what you just wrote, and some horror stories on some poor gliders dying from poor quality PVC I want to stay away from it. What should I specifically be looking for when researching plastics? What do you think is best? Any ideas would help lol

Oh and stainless steal is safe then?

Last edited by alixdor; 04/18/15 12:15 PM.

Mum to Eva & Brie
Bengals Nala & Simba
Gecko Galileo Galilee & 4 babies
Hedgehog Gandalf
Chihuahua Milou
Bettas Pablo Picasso & M.C. Escher
Cockatiel Charles Darwin
Suggies
:wfb: Tesla, Ollie & Akbar The Great :bb: Loki & Kaiya :leu: Grace Kelly :grey: Omeo :plat: Audrey Hepburn
Re: plastics and chemical toxicities [Re: alixdor] #1389125
04/19/15 08:41 AM
04/19/15 08:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Quote:
I was thinking 1/8 of and inch. The next size up is 1/4 inch, seems too big for their paws.


Before you go to the expense of buying these rods for the entire room you are building, you might get a few pieces and build a section of what you have in mind and put it in the glider's cage to see how well it holds up.

I agree 1/4 inch rods might be difficult for gliders to grip for climbing but I am not sure 1/8 inch rods would be sturdy enough especially if you have hanging glider toys or their pouches from the rods. Since the space is large your gliders might also be able to jump and glide into the bars. They do land with some force and you need to make sure the 1/8 inch bars will not break if struck by a glider landing.

You may want to consider putting the rods horizontally as well because without any cross bars at intervals as found on most wire cages, the gliders might simply slide down long vertical bars and be unable to climb the sides of the cage.

You are covering a very large space with what ever material you choose so it needs to be glider friendly not just pretty.

I have some concerns about the proposed ventilation system. It may be best to have an open environment (not sealed doors on the front) with the whole room rather that either blowing or drawing air out of the enclosure.

Great caution needs to be taken with blowing or moving air that a glider might be able to directly contact. They have very delicate ears and if the glider were to get wet (if you use the drip wall) then the glider exposes itself to the direct source of the moving ears their ears could become chapped - gliders have lost ears due to chapping and drying of the very thin skin and they do not grow back.

Your gliders do not require a specific temperature or humidity setting. If YOU are comfortable at the temperature of your home, the gliders will be comfortable as well.

My gliders are located in a separate room that I can close off completely with the sliding doors between my family room and the sun porch where the cages are located. The room does have its own heat/AC vent and a return air vent but it is all a part of my home's system. I have placed plastic mesh INSIDE both the vent and return air even though my gliders cannot get to them on the ceiling - just to make sure they cannot sneak into the AC system. When it is very cold outside I have a thermostat controlled space heater that is placed about 6 feet away from the cages that runs at night to keep the room about 70 degrees. I usually have the doors to the family room open unless I have gliders out playing and need to separate them from the dogs.

Another thought - you asked about using moonlighting in the light fixtures in the room you are converting. Keep in mind that gliders need light during normal day light hours and prefer darkness at night. My gliders are in a sun room that has windows on three sides. They are asleep a little before sunrise and wake up about an hour after full sunset.

If the light fixtures are the only source of light in the location you are converting to a glider habitat, you will need to provide light during normal day light hours and turn them off in the evenings for your gliders to maintain their normal nocturnal activity hours. You may need to make sure the ceiling lights do not make that part of the environment hot to the touch - which could burn a glider if they do get up during the day. Heat from the light fixture might also damage any plastic mesh or even the acrylic rods if they are close to the light while it is on during the day.

You are putting a great deal of thought, time and effort into the HABITAT. I hope you are at the same time taking as much time to get to know your gliders and to bond with them. You have brought them into your home as PETS first - they do not really need a zoo display type habitat to be happy healthy pets that enjoy interacting with you.

Focus on your gliders and get to know their habits well before you jump into a complicated habitat that might not meet their needs as pets. I seems that you are trying to make a DISPLAY environment that would work best in a zoo where the animals are encouraged to maintain their wild behaviors - not a home for pets that you want to be your companions.

Last edited by CandyOtte; 04/19/15 08:55 AM.

Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: plastics and chemical toxicities [Re: alixdor] #1389163
04/20/15 10:58 PM
04/20/15 10:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 57
Canada Ontario outside of the ...
alixdor Offline OP
Out of Pouch
alixdor  Offline OP
Out of Pouch

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 57
Canada Ontario outside of the ...
Ahhhh yes, I see where that could be misinterpreted. I have, so far, only spoken about the enclosure. This is only because I did not yet have the sugar gliders and it was all I could do to prepare. I was very excited. Still am. I've finally got 2 of them today, but I will post about that in another forum.

I do want to make the enclosure beautiful, as it is in my home, it's actually going in the very centre of my home where everyone spends the most time. I also want to stimulate their natural environment. I don't see them as pets, nor do I my cats, gecko, hedgehog etc. I see them as a living thing in which we build a mutual relationship of respect and caring while sharing each others habit. I do want to stimulate their natural habitat as it's the one they have evolved to. That does not mean that I don't want to share my home with them, or put them on display. I completely understand how my messages so far have been giving you that impression. lol But trust me, I just have a different mentality when it comes to environment. I don't think that makes other's ideas wrong either, just different. I have the idea of metal and industrially made products in general. I always try to make my own things, give them my touch. I just really really like making stuff tounge

The idea of the ventilation, I understand but I think if you saw and felt it you would feel much better. I promise you it's not chilli or sucking the air hard. It's really just air flow.

Also the drip wall I am still doing research because I agree it is a bit concerning that they would get wet, and I've put it on the back burner for now. Even if I figure out a way to do it, it can be left to later on. Have more important things. I don't like the bottles though, they get their tongues stuck in them frown and stagnant water promotes kidney stones. I have to keep doing research.

There is light during the daytime, what I meant was that the pot lights the enclosure was under was on it's own switch and dimmer. This way if I am up at night doing school work (as I typically am) I can turn on the lights without disturbing their light cycle.

The issue of putting having the front of the enclosure having it closed off is simply because, well several reasons really. It keep the cats away from the suggies, it keeps any poo from being dropped on my kitchen floor or table, and it helps me make sure that since the enclosure will be locked, no misbehaving children will be sneaking snacks to the gliders. Especially if they gave them something that was not within their diet.

I too am concerned about the rods breaking, that would be incredibly dangerous. I spoke with the manufacturer and they said it would be fine but I am going there again tomorrow. I have a machine to pressure test things and I'm bringing it in to make sure it does take the weight they say it does. If it doesn't take the 40 lbs then I'm no risking it.

My home is kept at a minimum of 26 Celsius umm I think Fahrenheit that's 79? I'm not very familiar with that form but yes I am always cold tounge I get cold very easily (thyroid problems). I do not use air conditioning…. ever I love the warmth. And my home is a log home so it doesn't get too hot in the summer. But I do still have to have a thermometer in all my pets tanks to make sure it's within their temps. In terms of humidity everywhere I have searched says that gliders need 60-90% humidity? Which I suppose makes sense since they do live in rainforests. But again the trouble with gliders is not much information is known right, so trial and error I suppose.

would you have any other ideas for material if the rods are too week? I know I'm asking so many questions but the last thing I want is to use some sort of metal or plastic or something and poison them.


Mum to Eva & Brie
Bengals Nala & Simba
Gecko Galileo Galilee & 4 babies
Hedgehog Gandalf
Chihuahua Milou
Bettas Pablo Picasso & M.C. Escher
Cockatiel Charles Darwin
Suggies
:wfb: Tesla, Ollie & Akbar The Great :bb: Loki & Kaiya :leu: Grace Kelly :grey: Omeo :plat: Audrey Hepburn

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