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by Hutch. 04/23/19 11:56 PM
Attachment disorder in sugar gliders.
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ANY ADVICE?? Intro to pregnant mother
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Glider Picking at Stitches post Neuter
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by Feather. 04/22/19 06:48 PM
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New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) #1406187
01/03/17 12:50 AM
01/03/17 12:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
SkyNCloud Offline OP
New Member
SkyNCloud  Offline OP
New Member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
Hello all! My name is Jess! I am a new sugar bear mom! I have 2 young gliders, 1 male and 1 female, they are approx. 13 weeks OOP I believe. I have had them for a month (the male about a month and a half) and we got them from a reputable USDA exotic local breeder. When we got our female we noticed the end of her tail was bare like missing fur. We brought that up as an obvious concern and he told us it was just from stress and she would stop over grooming when we got her home and settled in. Well we got her home and we were able to put them in the same cage because they were raised together and are only a week apart and they are still young. We have never witnessed her hurting herself but just recently it has gotten worst and now the breeder wont answer our questions and concerns we have about her. She finally started to open up to us bonding wise and we are finally able to pick her up (she's a biter) and last night I checked her tail, it's gotten worst. I feel a kink in her tail so I believe she is SM because it got damaged in the cage the breeder had her in (he had a bunch of them in a cage and about half of them had damaged and severed tails) so I made an appointment with our exotic vet here in town and luckily we have a really good one I hear. We have never witnessed her tail bleeding or anything like that, we just noticed the damage is worst and the bone is exposed. I feel as if I want to blame the breeder for not addressing this and now ignoring us on the issue (we never signed anything when we bought her releasing them as at fault) does anyone know what a typical tail amputation costs? She seems overall healthy and happy other than keeping her tail curled and my male leaves her tail alone. She is on a BML diet and I only feed them the strict fruit and veggies each night. They are picky and don't get many treats other than yogurt but she eats and drinks very well and stool is normal and she loves to play. Just want to know what to expect when we go into her appointment for her poor tail frown So sad for my baby girl Cloud <3


New Suggie momma!

:bb: Sky
:plat: Cloud
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406190
01/03/17 10:00 AM
01/03/17 10:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,480
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Online content
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Ladymagyver  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,480
SW Missouri
Hopefully someone can answer your question on here soon.

I'm sorry I have no experience but wanted to touch base with you. Hopefully most of the tail can be saved?

Pleased keep us posted. Oh and welcome to Glider Central!


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406192
01/03/17 11:34 AM
01/03/17 11:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 522
Pacific NW
TwoDog Offline
Glider Lover
TwoDog  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 522
Pacific NW
I would have a heated discussion with this breeder. frown

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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406193
01/03/17 11:48 AM
01/03/17 11:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
:welcomegc:

First, let me answer your question about what the tail amputation cost. It varies depending on where you live and it can even vary depending on the experience of the vet you choose. You would just need to call the one you are using and ask what they charge. There is no standard rate for anything shakehead


Originally Posted By: SkyNCloud
we got them from a reputable USDA exotic local breeder.
Originally Posted By: SkyNCloud
I feel a kink in her tail so I believe she is SM because it got damaged in the cage the breeder had her in (he had a bunch of them in a cage and about half of them had damaged and severed tails)
Originally Posted By: SkyNCloud
now the breeder wont answer our questions and concerns we have about her.


Any true reputable breeder would never have a bunch of gliders so crammed into a cage there were injuries nor would a reputable breeder sell a glider with an injury suck as the one yours has without telling you about it.

Further a true reputable breeder normally always answers calls for the well being of the glider.

Did you go to this breeder's facility or buy it somewhere else like a mall, kiosk, fair, etc?

At any rate, keeping your little one in our thoughts for a speedy recovery. There are many gliders who have suffered a tail injury and done quite well. On a positive note, a tail injury does not always agree equate to self mutilation. That is very good news


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: KarenE] #1406207
01/03/17 09:22 PM
01/03/17 09:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
SkyNCloud Offline OP
New Member
SkyNCloud  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
Sadly he is a well known guy who breeds them himself, or so he says. I just did research and I wanna ring this guy's neck. He has a USDA license but is letting this happen to all his gliders and other animals. He sells out of his house, or barn I should say. I filed a complaint against him on the USDA website so hopefully he gets punished. I looked up his records and he had some violations but not with the gliders. He still has not answered. Her tail is getting worst, we have an appointment at 2 pm tomorrow to get both our gliders checked out so praying for some good news! Luckily the kink is towards the end so if they do amputate she should have half of her tail (like all the other gliders in her cage had left).

Thank you all for the support and prayers! I will post tomorrow any results and to hopefully schedule her next appointment.


New Suggie momma!

:bb: Sky
:plat: Cloud
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: TwoDog] #1406208
01/03/17 09:24 PM
01/03/17 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
SkyNCloud Offline OP
New Member
SkyNCloud  Offline OP
New Member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
I'm trying to if I can get a hold of this guy! I just learned he has like 3 petitions out against him to revoke his USDA and I feel like crap because I forgot to research the breeder frown my own bad I guess. He is being compared to the "puppy mill" of the exotic breeders. I don't know if I'm allowed to post his name here so I will withhold but he needs to be taken out!!!


New Suggie momma!

:bb: Sky
:plat: Cloud
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406210
01/03/17 11:52 PM
01/03/17 11:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
According to our rules, if he has a website you may indeed post his name.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406212
01/04/17 01:19 AM
01/04/17 01:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
SkyNCloud Offline OP
New Member
SkyNCloud  Offline OP
New Member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
His company name is Even Keel Exotics


New Suggie momma!

:bb: Sky
:plat: Cloud
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406217
01/04/17 12:04 PM
01/04/17 12:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
Simply doing a Google search for Even Keel Exotics sends up huge red flags, and I'm not faulting you in any way as many of us have come in contact whether directly or indirectly with someone like this.

According to the link given above, this business is based in Michigan. They simply mass breed and broken all sorts of animals.

They are the dregs of the industry, IMO. How they manage to get USDA approval is a mystery to me!

Please take a few moments to add Even Keel Exotics to our data base under Sugar Glider Mill Breeders and or Brokers. It is important for us to have the good as well as the bad information for our members. Be sure to share your experience in the review section when submitting.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406218
01/04/17 12:08 PM
01/04/17 12:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
Andover, Ohio
petsugargliders Offline
Glider Slave
petsugargliders  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
Andover, Ohio
I have been a USDA licensed breeder since 2003 and live in Ohio and never heard of him, but I agree with others that he doesn't sound reputable. A lot of people see USDA licensed and think reputable, but in fairness, there are very low USDA standards to breeding sugar gliders.

It is possible that it was stressed judging by what you described, but it can also be an injury that is causing pain.

I have a list of vets in Ohio that sees sugar gliders. Price will vary extremely depending on what part of the state you are from.

Last edited by petsugargliders; 01/04/17 12:10 PM.

Jennifer Chandler
Owned by sugar gliders for over 14 years
Pet Sugar Gliders
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: petsugargliders] #1406221
01/04/17 12:14 PM
01/04/17 12:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
Jennifer, I have not heard of them either, however, I found a conversation on Glider Gossip from 2012 where they were trying to get a petition to shut them down.

Since they broker and don't sell directly, that could be why we haven't heard of them. My guess is they deal in other exotics more than they do in gliders dunno


ETA: I'll bet whoever she purchased from in Ohio is simply a representative or franchisee.

Last edited by KarenE; 01/04/17 12:15 PM.

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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406223
01/04/17 12:20 PM
01/04/17 12:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
Andover, Ohio
petsugargliders Offline
Glider Slave
petsugargliders  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
Andover, Ohio
Well it is good to know they are out there now so I can inform others about them.

Our very own Ohio based mill broker! frown


Jennifer Chandler
Owned by sugar gliders for over 14 years
Pet Sugar Gliders
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: petsugargliders] #1406225
01/04/17 12:31 PM
01/04/17 12:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
:thumb2:


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406238
01/04/17 07:39 PM
01/04/17 07:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
SkyNCloud Offline OP
New Member
SkyNCloud  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
Hi all! Sorry just got back from the vet!
Regarding Even Keel, he lives in Temperance MI, that's only 15 minutes from me as I'm in Toledo, OH. He sells a variety from foxes, to cavies, to prairie dogs and sugar gliders and hedgehogs. He once in a while sells GSD puppies as well. He isn't very known for his gliders around here.
Also he had a good amount of sugar gliders in a tiny hamster cage, most of which had missing tails as well. We got her because it looked like she had all of her tail.

The vet office was good, Sky is completely healthy which is great. Overall, Cloud is healthy, her heart sounds good as do her lungs. But she is way older than we thought she was (he told us she was around Sky's age which would put her at 3.5 months old, she looks and weights to be 5-6 months old, another thing he had no idea he was talking about :hbreak: ) She is scheduled for Monday to have her tail tip amputated but it is not guaranteed this will stop her SM. They aren't dealing with the kink in her tail yet either. Right now she is on 2 pain meds as well as antibiotics.

I really really hope this stops her SM frown I feel so bad for my baby girl. But better news my Brisbane cage from Exotic Nutrition will be here! (I'm mainly excited it has a shelf for storage but don't tell my suggies that rofl )

Last edited by SkyNCloud; 01/04/17 07:40 PM.

New Suggie momma!

:bb: Sky
:plat: Cloud
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406239
01/04/17 08:46 PM
01/04/17 08:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
Good to hear you are pleased with the vet you have chosen. All seems to be going well at this point. Look forward to further reports.

Keep up the good work.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406241
01/04/17 10:07 PM
01/04/17 10:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,279
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,279
Wisconsin
Discuss this with your vet when you take her in for the amputation, but it may be best to have them amputate it past the kink.

Also, tell them not to shave her tail. I have discussed this with a vet in Kentucky two years ago, had to have an emergency tail amputation while at the SGGA, that vet doesn't shave them for amputations.

Usually the glider will take the stitches out during the night and then leave their tail alone. Here is the link for making an e collar.http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...ilate#Post69788

Please keep us posted on your little one.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406385
01/09/17 06:44 PM
01/09/17 06:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
SkyNCloud Offline OP
New Member
SkyNCloud  Offline OP
New Member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
Hi all, sorry for MIA, she just got back from her surgery. I'm a little stressed out because it costed way more than the estimate and it set us back a lot in bills but hopefully she stops cry

Doctors said she started to chew it again. They tried an e-collar but she's too smart and finds her way out every time. They also put bad tasting things but she still wants to go for it. Now we have to inject her with medicine as well as her oral meds and antibiotic.

It's going to be a rough few days. I'm praying this works because I can't afford right now to keep paying the vet bill hundreds each time upset

Last edited by SkyNCloud; 01/09/17 06:46 PM.

New Suggie momma!

:bb: Sky
:plat: Cloud
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406412
01/10/17 02:13 PM
01/10/17 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,279
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,279
Wisconsin
I have messaged Denise Rainwaters about this, hopefully we can get an e jacket to you.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406427
01/10/17 08:34 PM
01/10/17 08:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,966
Northeast Indiana
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis
minkasmom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,966
Northeast Indiana
Well well well!! GC still remembers me (and yes that's a GOOD thing).....I haven't been on here forever, but Miss Feather always knows how to find me (no matter how big of a rock I try to hide under rofl

Let's get down to business (while the tar is heating up and I gather up a bunch of feathers for this not-so-fantastic "breeder"----and I'm keeping THAT remark as g-rated as I can). My first question is this: how much tail is LEFT for her to be messing with? If she even has HALF left, then the e-jacket won't work well in this situation. She'd still be able to reach it, chew on it, and continue on her little road of self-destruction. cry There is a second style of e-collar called a SATELLITE which is very easy to make and put on....the key is making it just snug enough that she CAN'T pop it off as easily as a SHOTGLASS e-collar. It's basically made from the same materials as a shotglass.....there's no template other than one of those large drinking glasses in your cupboard. Make a circle, cut it out, find a dime to put in the center and make a circle around IT, cut a line from the outside of the big circle to the edge of the little circle, cut out your little circle, and put moleskin everywhere. ROUND THE EDGES on both ends of the cut (neck rubbing wounds come from square corners rubbing against the very thin skin of gliders) and put moleskin EVERYWHERE...around the inside of the small circle, the outside of the big circle, and on both sides of the straight-cut line.

Now.....if her tail is down to LESS THAN an inch, we MAY have a chance with an e-jacket working. I don't charge a small fortune for one: they're $10 each, and they're washable and re-usable. Postage for 2-day delivery to Toledo is $6.25, so we're talking $16.25 total damage. I'm more worried about helping your little girl than I am about the payment, so say "the word" and give me your address...bippity, boppity boo!...one will be on the way! All I need to know is her weight, which I'm sure is on one of your papers. (age doesn't really help here, I've known babies to be young and weigh a LOT or many years old and weigh 75 grams soaking wet).

I'll try to check back a little later for answers to my questons.


Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: minkasmom] #1406428
01/10/17 08:48 PM
01/10/17 08:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406429
01/10/17 09:15 PM
01/10/17 09:15 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



thanks

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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406430
01/10/17 09:17 PM
01/10/17 09:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,966
Northeast Indiana
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis
minkasmom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,966
Northeast Indiana
Let's try this again, shall we?

thanks Karen!


Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: minkasmom] #1406436
01/10/17 11:38 PM
01/10/17 11:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
rofl :urwelcome: Denise wave


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406443
01/11/17 08:52 AM
01/11/17 08:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,480
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Online content
Moderator
Ladymagyver  Online Content
Moderator

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,480
SW Missouri
With this satellite collar, will the glider be able to eat/ drink on their own? Or will it depend on how glider fits in it and dishes used?


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406444
01/11/17 11:03 AM
01/11/17 11:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,279
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,279
Wisconsin
We used a lid from a sour cream container to feed Conner when he was in the satellite collar. It isn't easy for them to eat.

Some stuff was hand fed to him.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406516
01/15/17 03:39 PM
01/15/17 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
SkyNCloud Offline OP
New Member
SkyNCloud  Offline OP
New Member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Ohio, USA
Hi all! Great news! She has not touched her tail ONCE (not even to really clean the wound)! The surgery worked wonders, she has a little more than half her tail left. She is so happy and playing and eating well! Thank you all for the help and support. She does not need an e-collar and she is actually off her meds (still on the antibiotic though) and she is a completely different glider. She is officially bonding with us and rolling around biting our fingers in a good way.

Much love! Jess, Cloud and Sky.


New Suggie momma!

:bb: Sky
:plat: Cloud
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406520
01/15/17 06:02 PM
01/15/17 06:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,480
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Online content
Moderator
Ladymagyver  Online Content
Moderator

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,480
SW Missouri
:yes: clap Good news! jump


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406524
01/15/17 08:01 PM
01/15/17 08:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,279
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,279
Wisconsin
:yes:


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: SkyNCloud] #1406528
01/16/17 07:16 AM
01/16/17 07:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,371
Belleville, IL
Hutch Offline
Glider Slave
Hutch  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,371
Belleville, IL
:thumb2:


- Hutch

:plat: Arthur :wfb: Gwynevere :bb: Merlin :grey: Morgana

The epic saga begins here!
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Re: New Suggie Mommy (who needs help!) [Re: Hutch] #1406535
01/16/17 12:33 PM
01/16/17 12:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,642
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
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LittleRock, AR USA
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