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How much of a bonding setback is this? #1410990
07/17/17 07:32 AM
07/17/17 07:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 16
USA
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aubiefan Offline OP
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aubiefan  Offline OP
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Hey everyone. I brought my gliders home on the 13th (less than a week ago), and have been trying to patiently start familiarizing them with me. They are 9 and 11 weeks oop.

I got them out in the pouch last night to sit on my stomach while watching TV; we had done this a couple of times before. I can't put my hand or even a finger in the sleeping pouch without a lot of crabbing and losing of minds (Sheldon is the skittish one; Sydney only crabs after he sets her off), so I haven't been moving them to the bonding pouch yet.

Last night Sheldon had a temper tantrum and jumped out of the pouch while I was trying to slip a mealworm in. He ran all over the living and dining room and I had to chase and catch him; he bit me hard enough to draw blood a couple of times.

I did get him back in the pouch with Sydney (who didn't move the entire time), but am so worried that he'll hate me forever now because I had to chase and catch him. There are cats in a different part of the house, behind a closed door, but he's so tiny that I was still afraid he'd slip under a door or something, so I felt like I had to catch him ASAP.

We sat for about 10 more minutes with the sleeping pouch zipped inside the bonding pouch, then I put them back. This morning they had abandoned that sleeping pouch for a different one, so I guess they decided that one wasn't safe? It needed washed anyway, but now I'm so worried that I've traumatized them . . .

Thoughts, advice, consolations? Thanks in advance.

Last edited by aubiefan; 07/17/17 07:32 AM.
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Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: aubiefan] #1410995
07/17/17 05:31 PM
07/17/17 05:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,142
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
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Ladymagyver  Offline
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Oh my, your fun has just begun! jump

First, I would suggest a large piece of fleece about or at least 12" 12" square to use to catch any more escapees. They won't associate the fleece with your hands. Plus it gives them something familiar to hang on to and bite. Keep with you at all times when they are out of their cage for the 'just in case' times.

Have you had any bathroom/ tent time with them? It gives the gliders a chance to get to know you on their terms. Since they don't like to be held (they really only learn to tolerate this when they are young), it is better to let them hang out on you first.


Spending time in their sleeping pouch may have to wait. Since they have bit you, this has become a tolerable defence mechanism for them. Also the crabbing at you is working too.

This is what I had to learn:

If they bite me, don't flinch (are you kidding me? I still flinch, but I go right back in.), if you do, you are teaching them it is a way to get rid of you.

When they crab/ lunge at me through the pouch, I get the last word. In other words, I softly talk to them and pet their pouch till they stop crabbing lunging. This teaches them that until they quiet down, I will not go away. I still sing lullabies to them during this time. They will stop and listen.

When they bite, I will " Ssst, tsk," (glider talk) to let them know I don't like what they are doing. If that doesn't work a firm "No" will over time.


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....

Grace :bb:

Stewie :rtmo:




Fiona and Dot :rbridge: Love and miss you both!

Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: aubiefan] #1410997
07/17/17 05:56 PM
07/17/17 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,746
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
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Feather  Offline
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Posts: 13,746
Wisconsin
Dawn has given you some good advice.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: aubiefan] #1411061
07/20/17 03:16 AM
07/20/17 03:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,461
Belleville, IL
Hutch Offline
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Hutch  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Belleville, IL
Originally Posted By: aubiefan
Hey everyone. I brought my gliders home on the 13th (less than a week ago), and have been trying to patiently start familiarizing them with me. They are 9 and 11 weeks oop.
clap Congrats, welcome to the madness!

Originally Posted By: aubiefan
I got them out in the pouch last night to sit on my stomach while watching TV; we had done this a couple of times before. I can't put my hand or even a finger in the sleeping pouch without a lot of crabbing and losing of minds (Sheldon is the skittish one; Sydney only crabs after he sets her off), so I haven't been moving them to the bonding pouch yet.
I concur with Dawn, probably to soon for open-pouch-cuddle-time. At this point, they still smell your hand as an invader & are trying to defend their turf.

Originally Posted By: aubiefan
Last night Sheldon had a temper tantrum and jumped out of the pouch while I was trying to slip a mealworm in. He ran all over the living and dining room and I had to chase and catch him; he bit me hard enough to draw blood a couple of times.
Sorry to hear that, but try hard not to become timid or shy yourself. You need to show them that such actions will not chase you away (as was said above). It'll get better!

Originally Posted By: aubiefan
I did get him back in the pouch with Sydney (who didn't move the entire time), but am so worried that he'll hate me forever now because I had to chase and catch him. There are cats in a different part of the house, behind a closed door, but he's so tiny that I was still afraid he'd slip under a door or something, so I felt like I had to catch him ASAP.
He won't. After a few positive encounters, he'll start coming around. If you have a very small tent or room (bathroom/closet), it would be better to start them there. They came keep their distance & come 'investigate' you as they're ready. Have treats nearby & offer them when they come close so they'll associate you with good things.

Originally Posted By: aubiefan
We sat for about 10 more minutes with the sleeping pouch zipped inside the bonding pouch, then I put them back. This morning they had abandoned that sleeping pouch for a different one, so I guess they decided that one wasn't safe? It needed washed anyway, but now I'm so worried that I've traumatized them . . .
I keep two to three pouches in the cage for mine. They move around as they feel like it. It -most likely- isn't that you brought them out in it yesterday, but I cannot promise. Promise, though, they're not traumatized.

Originally Posted By: aubiefan
Thoughts, advice, consolations? Thanks in advance.
There'll be times that play session go well & others will they don't. The important thing it to give them time to relax & come to view you as part of their colony that helps take care of them. Have more good times than bad, allow them to control the pace, & you'll have two very loving furballs that don't let go when it's time for you to go to bed.


- Hutch

:plat: Arthur :wfb: Gwynevere :bb: Merlin :grey: Morgana

The epic saga begins here!
Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: aubiefan] #1411065
07/20/17 09:05 AM
07/20/17 09:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 16
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aubiefan Offline OP
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aubiefan  Offline OP
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Thanks for all the great advice! I wore them for about 3 hours the other evening (with sleeping pouch zipped inside bonding bag), and they were pretty calm. This morning Sheldon crabbed and lunged at me (through the cage bars) at first when I offered him a Yogie, but then he calmed down and took it out of my fingers with no crabbing. Sydney is still a lot less skittish than he is and will take mealworms from me through the bars. There is still a lot of crabbing when I first talk to them, but it seems like it's lasting for less and less time . . .

Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: aubiefan] #1411072
07/20/17 02:52 PM
07/20/17 02:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,461
Belleville, IL
Hutch Offline
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Hutch  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Belleville, IL
Originally Posted By: aubiefan
Thanks for all the great advice! I wore them for about 3 hours the other evening (with sleeping pouch zipped inside bonding bag), and they were pretty calm. This morning Sheldon crabbed and lunged at me (through the cage bars) at first when I offered him a Yogie, but then he calmed down and took it out of my fingers with no crabbing. Sydney is still a lot less skittish than he is and will take mealworms from me through the bars. There is still a lot of crabbing when I first talk to them, but it seems like it's lasting for less and less time . . .
That's excellent! It's baby steps, but it is progress in the correct direction! I'm glad to hear that.

Keep interacting with them, they'll each come around in their own time... even if it is different times, lol.


- Hutch

:plat: Arthur :wfb: Gwynevere :bb: Merlin :grey: Morgana

The epic saga begins here!
Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: aubiefan] #1411214
07/24/17 11:56 AM
07/24/17 11:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 16
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aubiefan Offline OP
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aubiefan  Offline OP
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So I've also been told that if I just leave them alone, no bonding pouch, no fingers in the cage, no nothing, they'll get curious and warm up. Has anyone had success with that?

As an update, I've been wearing them for 2-3 hours most evenings and Sydney is pretty chill, but last night they were pretty crabby and Sheldon lunged at me through the mesh of the bonding bag; I'm starting to feel pretty down about it.

Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: aubiefan] #1411221
07/24/17 03:42 PM
07/24/17 03:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,142
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
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Ladymagyver  Offline
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SW Missouri
Originally Posted By: aubiefan
So I've also been told that if I just leave them alone, no bonding pouch, no fingers in the cage, no nothing, they'll get curious and warm up. Has anyone had success with that?


Hummm... that may work with a single, but causes other problems... Like self mutalation, stress...

If I were to totally ignore mine, they would be fine with that. Well Dot would. Fiona likes alone time. She is my bra baby, but prefers to hangout on my back in a hoodie in this weather. I don't go outside with her there.

They need to socialize with you, and learn. Lunging is normal. I have taught mine that I do not go away because they crab and lunge. I get the last word. The sooner they quiet down, the sooner I go away. Otherwise they learn how to make you go away...

You are doing fine. Do you take them out in public in their bonding bag yet?


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....

Grace :bb:

Stewie :rtmo:




Fiona and Dot :rbridge: Love and miss you both!

Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: aubiefan] #1411222
07/24/17 04:47 PM
07/24/17 04:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,461
Belleville, IL
Hutch Offline
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Hutch  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,461
Belleville, IL
Originally Posted By: aubiefan
So I've also been told that if I just leave them alone, no bonding pouch, no fingers in the cage, no nothing, they'll get curious and warm up. Has anyone had success with that?
I've not heard of leaving them completely alone & doing nothing. What I've commonly seen suggested (& utilized myself with success) is giving them some space, but still being present & interacting indirectly. For example, sitting next to the cage & talking at them. I would read my emails (or posts here, lol) out loud to them, or sing along with a song from my iPod. When they'd come over to check out what I'm doing, I'd offer a hand (slowly) for them to smell & if they did without 'negative' reactions, I'd follow-up by offering a treat.

The goal should be for your fuzzies to get used to your presence & labeling you as non-threatening. Doing nothing, they'll only remain uncertain what to make of you.


- Hutch

:plat: Arthur :wfb: Gwynevere :bb: Merlin :grey: Morgana

The epic saga begins here!
Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: Hutch] #1411236
07/25/17 05:50 AM
07/25/17 05:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 16
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aubiefan Offline OP
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aubiefan  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Hutch

The goal should be for your fuzzies to get used to your presence & labeling you as non-threatening. Doing nothing, they'll only remain uncertain what to make of you.


Thanks, that makes the most sense and is what I thought, but I'm a newbie to sugar gliders, and just wanted to double check. I have one that is still pretty shy and wary, and another that seems more comfortable with me. I hope that maybe once the shy one sees that his buddy doesn't suffer any consequences from being curious, he might come around.


Last edited by aubiefan; 07/25/17 05:50 AM.
Re: How much of a bonding setback is this? [Re: Ladymagyver] #1411237
07/25/17 05:52 AM
07/25/17 05:52 AM
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aubiefan Offline OP
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aubiefan  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Ladymagyver


You are doing fine. Do you take them out in public in their bonding bag yet?


I took them out in public (inside the sleeping pouch zipped inside the bonding pouch) one evening, and they did really well. In general they only crab if they see my face or hands, and it's really just one of them that does the crabbing and lunging. Occasionally he will set the other one off, but it's always him first.


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