I am very worried about my new boy, Stump. I have heard him make a very strange noise over and over again, night after night. It does not really sound like the noise that is featured on the SM page and he only makes it (as far as I know) when there is another glider in the pouch with him. Could his noise be different? Are there any other recordings of it? Is it possible that you cannot see the damage that is being done? I would love to see pictures of SM, but the pictures are not up on the SM site.

I am not really sure what to do. I have an appointment with my vet next week, so I do not want to jump to any conclusions and jump the gun. Given that his sounds does not sound like the SM sound featured on the site, I am not 100% convinced that he is doing it. Also, I cannot really detect any blood on him. Are there any pictures of glider anatomy, so that I can take a look and see what everything is supposed to look like (I am familiar with anatomy of female gliders, not as familiar with male gliders' anatomy).

It is hard to describe the noise he makes, it does end in a crab, but the beginning sounds more like a breathy weezing sound.

Any thoughts/advice?

i can't really help with the noise, but here's a good anatomy site: http://bmxglider.tripod.com/glideranatomy.html

Does the sound seem like a cry like he's in pain? Can you describe it a little more? Yes it is possible for him to be making the SM sound several days before actually doing damage. Be sure you are ready with an ecollar and keep a close eye on him.

FURBYnGIZMO may have another recording of the SM sound. You might check with her.

The anatomy site that Becki linked you to is the same one I was going to suggest.

Since you said he only makes the sound when another glider is in the pouch with him, is it possible they are fighting or mating?

I hope he's okay. You can always contact Jen/Xfilefan with any SM questions. She is our expert on it, along with Bourbon and several others.

http://sm.all4gliders.com/ - Please go here - if he is SM, they will be the best ones to help you!

I spent quite a while on this site earlier (it is the site I referred to a few times in my original post) but, short of calling someone, the information on the site is not very helpful to me.

I wish I could describe the noise more fully. IT is a very strange noise. I really need to hear another recording of it. Would someone please help me find one?

If he is with another glider how long has bene with them. Mine will make this noise to talk to one another. It's almost like a heavy breathing combined with hissing or something. It's like an annoyed get your foot out of my eye kinda thing

Kelz – I just posted on your other thread about the intors, and wanted to see what you were talking about with the SM stuff… I have to admit I have no experience with SM gliders, so I am sorry I can’t offer you any help there, you should PM Jen/Xfilefan, as PeeperKeeper noted she is one of our resident SM experts…

I just PM-ed Xfilefan. I am going to try to record the noise tonight (he only seems to do it at night), which will be a challenge, as my digital recorder is broken and my other recording devices have low quality output. I am going to make an ECollar just in case.

Thank you all for your advice.

Is he 'flossing'? What I mean, does he have is penis out when he is making this noise?

I have never been able to see him when he is making the noise. He makes it inside the pouch. He just made it a few seconds ago, and it sounds a bit like a breathy hiss followed by a very short crab. Are there any other noises associated with SM?

Does the SM noise sound a bit like a muffled or hollowed hiss with a short crab?

My apologies for not posting earlier but I MYSELF am dealing with this and luckily all went well at the vet and my Gizzy is fine...

HERE is the sound I was able to record...if at all familiar please contact me and if you haven't contacted XFilefan (Jen) please try again...

Once in a blue moon, Timmy makes this sound (I peeked in, he was flossing.) But he doesn't do it all the time, just every now and then and it isn't alot like on this recording is it once or twice, very quick. Should I be worried? He always comes out and his penis goes back in and as I said he has not done it for a while. If I hear it again, what should I do?

I just listened again. Timmy doesn't do the crabbing part, just a little 'screech' once or twice and that is it.

Hey Jenny, thanks for the recording, Kelly PMed me (the X confusion) and I started a multi PM with Jen/Xfiles, I also called her last night and left her a Vmail that this was happening, I believe she may have started a new job and is in training…

That's the sound! Now I am in a bit of a panic.

PM sent, FURBYnGIZMO.

Check your inbox...PM sent

Please note that the sound in the background is my Gizzy running in the WHEEL and Giz would stop every so often and make this scary sound

Thanks, Jenny--

Another PM sent.

I haven't had any experience with this but I just wanted to let you know that I will be thinking about you and Stump.

Thank you for your thoughts!

Kelly I returned your PM again...

sorry for delays on messages but I'm drowning here at work b4 the holiday weekend

My suggestion is to take your little male glider to the vet ASAP. Have them do a direct fecal smear and also a urine analysis.

Constipation, urinary tract infections and then parasitic problems are most common causes for self mutilation in gliders.

E-Collar is a must.

I gave her instuction on how to make an e-collar and I haven't heard back anything yet

I hope and pray this is nothing serious and Kelly is at the vets as I post this.

Please keep us posted

Hello--I am sorry for not responding since this afternoon--I got off work earlier than I had anticipated and had have been running errands all day preparing for the holiday weekend.

I bought the materials for an ecollar but I have not taken him to the vet, as I am not sure whether it is him making the noise. I meant to mention (but have seen that I did not mention) that I did not hear the noise last night before or after separating Idgie and Stump. I planned to see how things go tonight in order to determine who is making the noise.

Was it a mistake on my part not to take him to the vet today (assuming that it is him making the noise)?

Sometimes these can be hard. If he was alone in the pouch, and you heard that, I'd be telling you to RUN to the vet. The SM noise is like a glider in an all out fight -only no other glider is there, and it's a response to pain. It can come/go for awhile prior to damage, and mostly at first, when you look, they just look back like "What?". If you hear it from HIM without another glider present, vet is the next immediate step (Collar IMMEDIATELY if he's paying attention to a particular body part when making the sound, or if you see ANY damage or blood you're not sure where came from). Females can make a similar sound when in heat-but that will simply go away after a day or so, and doesn't usually have the intensity of the SM noise (although there is one notable exception lately with Jenny's girl). You were given the urine/fecals to ask for.

If you do determine it's him, also ask the vet for a pain med such as torb...that's important. Preventing external damage is the SINGLE most important thing, and vital to recovery, so Collar and pain meds are first priority, followed by antibiotic for either actual or suspected infection (minimum 14 day course).

Please keep us updated.

I am confused. All of my cages make sounds like thous..one was doing it as I listned. but all of my cages are pairs and trios (no breeders). And i have never had an sm situation. i have found that these noises are all more grouchy "get outta my face" noises. but you are saying if a lone glider makes the same sound it COULD be Sm?

IF it's the sound in the recording, it's possible. It's hard to describe intensity in a sound. With SM, a glider will pay particular attention to a body part (cloaca, abdomen, tail, etc), or be actively chewing at iself along with the noise. At first, that can be very hard to catch, and it's not going to be quite the same as any other sound your glider makes. A male glider should NEVER make a noise like that unless he's in a fight. Also with an SM/potential SM, it may start out brief, but as the underlying condition develops (days to a week or so), it will last longer and longer, and he'll bury his or her face in whatever it is that's hurting-at some point they'll chew on YOU as opposed to leave it alone and distraction is not an option. The first day or two, the glider may stop when you look in to see what's going on and look at you like "What?". With an SM, it WON'T stay that way. Don't know if this helped any, but I tried.

Hello all!

Okay--Idgie and Stump were separated for nearly two weeks and I did not hear Stump make the noise while he was alone.

Last night, however, I tried introductions again and heard the noise many times when they were in the pouch together--never when he was in a pouch or the nesting box alone.

Do you all think this might mean that he is making this noise as a sort of leave me alone/stay out of my space type noise? Could this be them fighting inside the pouch? I have never seen what is going on when Stump is making the noise, so i am pretty much clueless. As soon as I get up from my chair, the noise stops.

Any thoughts? Advice?

To me it sounds as if its just them bickering with each other. If they didn’t make the sound at all when they were separated for 2 weeks and then the sound suddenly started again when they were reintroduced, then its possible that they’re just annoyed with each other in the pouch because one is moving around and possibly stepping on the other…

Have you tried maybe getting them a larger pouch or one with a squarer bottom area so they have more room to move around? Or maybe putting a second pouch in the cage so they don’t have to share if they don’t want to? You can try that to see if it stops the noise.

Unfortunately I can’t tell you that its not SM, but if you’re still unsure after trying all of that, then it might be best just to take them both to the vet.

I hope they’re fine and just moody with each other…
Keep an eye on them and let us know if anything changes.

Much love,

The introductions should be supervised before you leave them alone together.
Try letting them play together during tent time (or it's equivalent) for a while.

So should I separate them again? I feel like I am just doing this all wrong.

Aren't I in some danger of causing emotional damage to Idgie? I am aware of the fact that there is a risk of physical damage, but they seem fine outside of the pouch.

Could Stump just be a glider who wants to be alone/does not want a companion?