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HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! #176458
11/26/06 04:56 PM
11/26/06 04:56 PM

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this is my 4th week of bringing home my gliders. and i love them to death! but- the whole bug thing is really starting to upset me. i have to make my brother do all the bug feeding and i do the (organic) fruits & veggies. see, i'm a vegan [like vegeterians - but not]and can't stand the thought of killing any living creature. i've had my 3 dogs on a vegan diet for 3 years and they even love it!
i know how important a healthy diet is to Sugar Gliders. they must have enough calcium, vitamins and such. is there anyway i could put my babies on a vegan diet and still stay healthy? i've only found sites for dogs, cats, & ferrets. is there maybe a way to use the ferret food for my Suggies along with fruits & veggies w/ rep-cal & vionate still sprinkled?
Any ideas?
Any links/sites/books?
knowledge anyone? haha
WOULD GREATLY APPRECiATE iT!!
OR
could this even be possible?

peace & love


Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176462
11/26/06 05:00 PM
11/26/06 05:00 PM

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They are omnivores so they need both really. Wait for more help that is just my opinion.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176463
11/26/06 05:07 PM
11/26/06 05:07 PM

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Protein is a crucial part of your gliders diet. I have to admit that I don't like the insect aspect of owning gliders but I chose to keep gliders in my life and it is my responsibility to feed them what they need to stay healthy.

I strongly suggest that you continue to keep protein sources in your gliders diets, whether that be in the form of insects, chicken, eggs etc.

As of now there are no other protein options. All the recommended diets require a protein source.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176464
11/26/06 05:08 PM
11/26/06 05:08 PM
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With the delicate balance of protein, vitamins, calcium and such a suggie needs, I honestly don't think there's a way to make a vegan diet for them frown

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176479
11/26/06 06:11 PM
11/26/06 06:11 PM

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i understand exactly what you're/ya'll are saying. my mother insists of checking my meal plan each week so that i get enough protein, calcium, vitamins etc. [haha] but from what you said 'insects, chicken , eggs...'

i myself fix vegan eggs [and are quite delecious] i also make veggie burgers, veggie chicken , tofurkey, and scrumptious varieties of tofu [and they are GREAT sources of protein].
could any of these protein/ meat alternatives be okay with my Gliders? i can post ingredients for some alternatives if it'd help for deciding that my babies can be vegan.

greatly apreciate [the] help!

peace & love

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176492
11/26/06 06:52 PM
11/26/06 06:52 PM

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Take a read through this info on Soy Products , also a list of ingredients would help in being able to say if they are harmful or not.

Ideally they should be fed meat products, the species is designed to consume other animals.. just the way nature intended.

You have a lot of factors to weigh up with this problem you have, but please keep your gliders overall health as the important factor in making your decision. They need for us as their care givers to put their needs before our beliefs.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176494
11/26/06 07:11 PM
11/26/06 07:11 PM

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No offense at all but pets health should be number 1 no matter what. Why make the pets health go down because of what a person personally believes. The pet still needs what it needs. Ill stop there.

Not trying to be mean just trying to prove a point.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176527
11/26/06 08:54 PM
11/26/06 08:54 PM

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Well, something else to think about...I'm not sure your philosophical basis for being a vegan, but for many people I know who are vegan, they are opposed to the way that we as humans process and harvest our food, particularly our livestock.

Sugar gliders getting protein through bugs, eggs, you name it...this is something that is very natural that they do in the wild. It is a completely natural part of life and the food chain. I'm sure you already know this, but maybe thinking of it this way will make it better.

so far all the evidence says that soy or other vegan alternatives to protein are not good for our gliders. So I understand your beliefs, but to be the most fair for the animal, you really need a good protein source for them. Otherwise, your pets can get sick and even die from ailments like HLP, and since I know that part of your beliefs as a vegan are probably being fair and kind to animals, this would really be doing the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish here.

My recommendation: if you feed the BML diet, the required protein comes from sources like eggs and baby food, and insects are recommended but to the best of my knowledge not completely required. It may be best to just have your brother keep feeding your gliders the protein though if it bothers you that much. But to not feed them the protein they need would be really unfair to your gliders frown

Best of luck!

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176609
11/26/06 11:58 PM
11/26/06 11:58 PM

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Originally Posted By: Jtmoney
No offense at all but pets health should be number 1 no matter what. Why make the pets health go down because of what a person personally believes. The pet still needs what it needs. Ill stop there.

Not trying to be mean just trying to prove a point.


I whole heartly agree !!!!!!!!!!! My Bother is a veggie person but his animals eat what god ment for them to eat.

Last edited by Tessie; 11/27/06 12:02 AM.
Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176615
11/27/06 12:06 AM
11/27/06 12:06 AM

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I don't think a person should force their beliefs onto their animals. Most animals - sugar gliders, dogs, cats, ferrets, etc NEED meat... they LOVE meat and it is a big part of their diet. Animals need protein and to force your animals to be vegan just because you are doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. Not trying to be rude or mean just stating my thoughts and opinions. To my knowledge all animals need protein in their diet and the best way to give them protein is by giving them meat.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176617
11/27/06 12:11 AM
11/27/06 12:11 AM

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I used to be a vegan too, and I know how you feel, but I did it more for the cruelty to animals than my health and to me depriving my gliders of their mealies would be cruel too, they love them so much. The little noises they make while eating is enough for me to know that. They don't make those noises eating the other protein and veggies stuff. I think of those mealies like me and my chocolate... anyway...

As humans we can choose and we are made to process other protein sources, but the gliders need their worms.

My opinion is to feed them the BML or something like that that you can handle and let your brother give them their treats (the mealies) while you are not watching.


Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176626
11/27/06 12:37 AM
11/27/06 12:37 AM
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Please feed your gliders what THEY need. Protein is a major part of their diet and without it, they will have a host of health problems that could lead to a very untimely demise. frown

There are other pets that don't require meats in case you decide you can't deal with the gliders needing protein. Chinchilla, mice, hamsters and many others. Good luck. smile


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: SugarBlossoms] #176628
11/27/06 12:43 AM
11/27/06 12:43 AM
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I have to agree, protein is THE MAIN thing a person should take into consideration when it comes to their diet plan for a glider. Not trying to sound mean, but if you really do stand behind your beliefs that strongly, I would simply recommend finding your gliders a different home. You obviously care about them or you wouldnt be here asking about their diet. And if they arent fed the proper diet, than their health will go down and they will eventually get sick and or die. None of us want that. Maybe research into the diets of these animals should have been done prior to allowing them to come into your home with such strong beliefs.
To answer your other question, NO ferret food can NOT be used for gliders. It is made for ferrets. Please do not attempt to feed them this as you will have very smelly gliders and soon to be unhealthy ones.

I am in hopes that you will make the right decision regarding this.


Peggy
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If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: Srlb] #176644
11/27/06 01:18 AM
11/27/06 01:18 AM

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I have great respect for your beliefs and commend you for coming and asking what is best for your suggies, knowing that some folks might not be charitable towards you. It was an act of courage that shows you really do care about what is best for your suggies.

I know of no alternative for the suggies other than animal proteins. Their biochemical balance is so delicate. In nature they would provide the much needed service of "culling the herd" so to speak of weaker and less healthy prey individuals.

What a utopia it might be if the death of one creature was not necessary for the continued survival of another. Of course, without the culling of the weak or ill, epidemics could run rampant and species would probably die off.

If you think about the circle of life, all life is ultimately dependent on the death of another lifeform. The plants that produce the fruit, seeds and nuts that frutitarians consume cannot produce without the decomposing animal matter in the soil.

Without predators, the prey animals would quickly eat all the food in their environment and starve,a slow painful death.

I know you will do what is right for your suggies and I pray that you will find peace with your decision.

Godspeed

Angel and The Suggies cloud9

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176682
11/27/06 02:55 AM
11/27/06 02:55 AM

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I, too, agree that it is obvious you care for your gliders or you wouldn't be here. But I have to say...while I respect your CHOICE to be a Vegan...your animals do not have the ability to make that choice. And, I am certain that if they could choose, they would choose to eat what they instinctively are designed to eat.

While it is your RIGHT to choose the diet you prefer for yourself....it is your RESPONSIBILITY to feed your animals what they NEED. I agree with what SRLB said...if it is a conflict of your beliefs, and it is going to cause you stress and discomfort, maybe you and your gliders would be happier if you could find them another home. Perhaps you could re-home them with someone who would still let you be part of their life and you could still remain close to them. I have learned that gliders can love LOTS of people. Mine are crazy about all 5 of us and they don't have a problem with the other animals that live here either.

I hope I don't come across as unkind. I certainly did NOT mean to be. As I said, you obviously care about them or you wouldn't be stressing over this. I just think it is possible that some types of pets (including Gliders) may not be for you with your strong beliefs about what is a necessary part of their diets.


Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176743
11/27/06 10:09 AM
11/27/06 10:09 AM

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While I'm not vegan, I am vegetarian (I just love cheese too much). The diet I choose is my choice. Gliders, and any other animals for that matter, depend on their owners to give them a proper diet. Personally, I don't think you should attempt to give them a diet that matches yours because you don't don't eat meat so they shouldn't either. What are you feeding them as their staple? Any GOOD one you could buy (zookeepers for the suncoast diet) contains meat products. Any mix you make contains meat products.
While a vegan diet for dogs may have been created, I don't know anything about it, people have owned dogs for a far longer time than gliders. You can go to the store and there are 1093483 different dog foods. They've been formulated specifically for a dogs health and nutrition. That's how all of the diets for gliders are--and I have yet to see one that doesn't include meat.
Soy meat products are very high in sodium, and contain a lot of other random things, and I would never feed them to my gliders. I'd rather give them plain meat than a bunch of random chemicals, fillers, and flavorings. There's also a controversy with the soy in tofu, I believe someone posted the link. I've offered it to one of my gliders when I first got him, and he never touched it.
You choose your personal diet, and you choose to have gliders as pets. So feed them what they need, and not what you choose for yourself.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176760
11/27/06 11:13 AM
11/27/06 11:13 AM

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Thanks you all SO MUCH! NO matter - vegan or not, i just want my gliders on the best diet that can keep them healthy. i wouldn't put them on a diet that's not approved or 'healthy to me'. good thing my brother 'actually like bugs!' haha. plus i make GREAT fruit smoothies/ salads - and stir - fry veggies just about every night! *So far they've absolutley love my fruit & veggie mixes*.
But now, i know not all my pets can live in my perspective - and - well i think i can accept it if it means the proper diet/health to my gliders.

THANKS once again!

Peace & Love

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176855
11/27/06 03:16 PM
11/27/06 03:16 PM

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Isnt it unhealty for a cat or dog to be on a vegan diet?! i was watching one show on animal planet where a cat went blind because he wasnt getting the neutrients he needed. I personally believe its cruel to force your bliefs on animals that eat meat and other things in the wild. It is a natural part of life.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176927
11/27/06 05:59 PM
11/27/06 05:59 PM

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If anything, I think the diets we have posted don't stress enough the need for insects in the diet. Every time I get in a conversation with an exotic vet, or even my regular vet, who knows only a little about gliders, they always insist that gliders need to be given lots of insects. Eggs and chicken are okay, but when I bring them up, the vets always say insects are a better source.


One of the problems is that even the glider experts, not just the ones here on GC, but those who have been to vet school, learned about all kinds of exotic animals and have done actual research studies on glider diets, don't know really what the perfect glider diet is. They do, however know that gliders eat a lot of insects in the wild. So it makes sense that we should start there. I think the jury is still out on how much we should supplement with vitamins, whether or not soy or dairy products (yes, including yogurt) are okay for gliders and many other questions about glider diets. But I don't think there's any doubt that insects are a healthy part of a good glider diet, so leaving them out would most likely be detrimental to the health of our pets.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176950
11/27/06 06:50 PM
11/27/06 06:50 PM

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Well, we are glad to hear that you are taking your gliders' needs into account and giving them the diet that they need, even if it's not the one you would choose for yourself. It's the right thing to do (and the natural thing to do for a glider!) smile

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #176974
11/27/06 07:53 PM
11/27/06 07:53 PM

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when my girlfriend helps feed sometimes, all i do is have her use a sharp knife and cut mealworms franticly or use a pare of poultry scissors. she seems to be more comfortable with the knife (hmm.. better not get her mad at me)!! lol

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #177046
11/27/06 10:17 PM
11/27/06 10:17 PM
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Glad to hear you are willing to feed the gliders what they need. Kudos to you for that. We all know that sometimes it is hard to go against what we believe in but in this case Kudos to you for knowing the importance of it.

Al_val, I dont understand...why do you need to cut up the mealworms? Gliders really love them more when they are alive and wiggling!! grin


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If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #177072
11/27/06 11:24 PM
11/27/06 11:24 PM

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Yes I'm a little confused to Al_Val...why do you cut them up?

Peace..I do commend you for coming on here to ask about their diet. It does show that you want what is best for them or else you would have just fed them what you wanted to without asking us first. I can understand your situation and that you were just looking for a solution that may fit your beliefs. Unfortunately it seems that if you want to feed your gliders a healthy diet you are going to have to go against your own dietary preferences. I do commend you also for deciding to continue with their proven diet. Shows how much you love them! Good luck! grin


Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #177082
11/27/06 11:45 PM
11/27/06 11:45 PM

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yes, my brother and i have already come to agreement i'll mix and make the fruit & veggie food and he'll so all the bug and chicken giving! [haha] . altho, i am willing to start handling the mealworms/grasshoppers [gradually, but eventually]. you know, just for one of those 'just incase' 'mergencies. [like i'll say (and BELIEVE *ha*) ... ANYYYTHiiNG for my babies!]

and 'Steffanie'- some vegan/vegetarian diets 'cannn' be bad/wrong for other pets - if not planned properly.
>
every sunday i make myy meal plan for the week as well as my dogs and the babies (Gliders) [i'm kinda OCD *haha* . and then i add up calcium,protien,water,nutrients, ect. to make sure i/they have a healthy diet balance]

but am most definantly going to give my gliders all they need - even if it takes a few 'paper bags' hehe

peace & love &
greatly appreciate your input!

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #177147
11/28/06 02:08 AM
11/28/06 02:08 AM

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clap Good for you in putting your babies health and needs before your own beliefs hug2 It is so very important for them to be on a proper and balanced diet.

I'm not vegan and I have issues with feeding bugs, I'm going on a year and a half and still have a hard time, but to know my kids are healthy and happy just makes it all so very worth while and rewarding for me as a glider parent heart

I bought a giant bamboo tweezer at the pet shop to handle the mealies with and it helps a lot thumb

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #177559
11/28/06 08:34 PM
11/28/06 08:34 PM

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ah! cool beans! just might have to get one of those!
thanks- peace & love

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #177562
11/28/06 08:36 PM
11/28/06 08:36 PM

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ah! cool beans! just might have to get one of those!
thanks- peace & love

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #177575
11/28/06 08:50 PM
11/28/06 08:50 PM

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I would also consider keeping chicken baby food around. May not be such a big deal for you to feed them and that way you can stomach giving it to them. I do that when I run out of mealies or want to give them a variety. Keep in mind that you can't keep it in the fridge for more than a couple days. Yogurt works good too, my girl LOVES to lick it off my figures.

Good luck.

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #177591
11/28/06 09:19 PM
11/28/06 09:19 PM

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Bamboo tweezers, WHAT A GOOD IDEA! The few times I've dealt with crickets, I have to have DJ or daughter's bf do that feeding. I HATE HATE HATE g'hoppers and crickets! They are as bad as spiders to me.... I'll be finding bamboo tweezers! Or two chopsticks! (wish I had thought of that myself, earlier!)

Re: HELP!?! [sigh...] i JUST CAN'T TAKE THiS ANYMORE! [Re: ] #177883
11/29/06 09:58 AM
11/29/06 09:58 AM

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If you really really don't like the bugs, you can always just got the already dead ones. I usually feed live mealies, but have zoomed's grasshoppers on hand. There is also mealies and crickets and some other bugs... I've only gotten the grasshoppers, but they are in a little can, and sort of marinated in something. Either way, my gliders go nuts over them. They do sort of stink, but at least they aren't all wriggly, and in essence, you aren't the one who sends them to their death... So maybe those in combination with bamboo tweezers and I think you'll be set.

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