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Bee pollen and Acacia Gum #275537
05/01/07 09:34 AM
05/01/07 09:34 AM

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What are they for? Why are they in some diets?

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #275698
05/01/07 01:02 PM
05/01/07 01:02 PM

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They're pretty much for nutrition. Also, many people (myself included) find it beneficial to have food items that the animals feed on naturally in the wild included in the diets of our pet gliders. Bee pollen is a great source of protein and Acacia Gum a great source of calcium. There is much debate on the issue, however, as to whether or not there is variance in the nutritional makeup between the pollen/gum available here (e.g. Arabic Acacia gum and North American rendered bee pollen) and that available to gliders in the wild. I had a look at the numbers awhile back and there wasn't much difference in my non-expert opinion.

Mikey dance

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #275710
05/01/07 01:11 PM
05/01/07 01:11 PM

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Some interesting reading on the issue if you were still curious. I dug up these old discussions from back in the day when debating was much fun and devil's advocates were many. lol Enjoy!

pollen/acacia 1

pollen/acacia 2

pollen/acacia 3

pollen/acacia 4

Mikey dance

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #275736
05/01/07 01:26 PM
05/01/07 01:26 PM

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Thanks, Mikey! I was looking up some stuff on the net while I was waiting on a response so I have a site for YOU in case you would like to read it too. smile The first reference for the article was the Journal of the American Medical Assoc so it's not mumbo jumbo. I know you are very scientific yourself so I thought you might enjoy it. smile
www.drugs.com/npc/bee-pollen.html?

I haven't found a good sight regarding the Acacia yet...so you say it's good for Calcium? Are your suggies on a specific diet? I'm researching diets now cause I want to make a switch to a diet that incorporates the bee pollen (I think I'm sold on that) and possibly the HP WOmbaroo Supplement. So, far I know that HPW does, but I also want to hear more about others out there.

P.S. You look a little like my brother in your avatar. Freaks me out!

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #275750
05/01/07 01:40 PM
05/01/07 01:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
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MizValorie Offline
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MizValorie  Offline
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Goodness Mickey, that is ALOT of reading! Thank you for bringign this up. I feed acacia and pollen but don't know to much about it. Thanks!


Valorie and our 10 fur children

RIP Mary Kate
Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: MizValorie] #275786
05/01/07 02:06 PM
05/01/07 02:06 PM

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How does one feed acacia? Do you sprinkle it on foods? How much? Or do you mix it with water to form the gum?

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #275824
05/01/07 02:28 PM
05/01/07 02:28 PM

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Originally Posted By: Wantiki2
How does one feed acacia? Do you sprinkle it on foods? How much? Or do you mix it with water to form the gum?


Either way works

Some people take the gum and put it in holes they have drilled in branches for the gliders to get out.

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #275864
05/01/07 03:01 PM
05/01/07 03:01 PM

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thanks

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #275919
05/01/07 03:39 PM
05/01/07 03:39 PM

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That WAS a lot of reading! Anybody got a link for the Acacia gum nutritional value or benefits?

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276026
05/01/07 05:22 PM
05/01/07 05:22 PM

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Thanks, Liesl. I'll have a look at the link. smile Your brother, huh? That better be a good thing or I'm gunna sock you! lol

Mikey dance

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276577
05/02/07 08:42 AM
05/02/07 08:42 AM

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LOL smile It is, but you don't look as much like him in your new avatar...I guess it's your "hard face" that looks like him..tee-hee! Hey, where are you gettin palm trees from? They don't have those in Cananda!

Still looking for Acacia nutritional info link if anyone's got one...Bueller, Bueller?

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276611
05/02/07 09:33 AM
05/02/07 09:33 AM

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Have you tried messaging Big_Ern? I remember him having plenty of useful resources. You may also find a lot of great materials from Pockets who possesses a library wealth of scientific references. Find them in the member search.

Question - are you thinking of altering your diet or are you just curious? If you're going to go the acacia/pollen route, perhaps you should ask Big_ern or Pockets what they're feeding their gliders. It may be of interest to you (or anyone else who's interested in the pro-natural botanical dietary route).

The palm trees are from my trip to San Diego Sea World 5 weeks ago when I was in Cali for a show.

Mikey dance

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276620
05/02/07 09:52 AM
05/02/07 09:52 AM

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I PMd Big Ern yesterday since he was also a major part of the threads that you linked and he did seem knowledgeable. Haven't heard back yet. I haven't tried Pockets yet though.

I am thinking about changing their diet. Right now they're on the Suncoast diet, but I've tried BML and either Judie's or Priscilla's diet (had orange juice and bell peppers in the recipe) which they didn't eat. I'm just worried that they're not getting the right amount of calcium and vitamins. They seem healthy though, but of course they seem healthy until they don't; you know? Just always trying to do good for the girls...

I'm not trying to downplay the fact that my girls are doing well on the Suncoast diet and they love it, but I would love to go the more natural route if possible.

CALIFORNIA! Wrong coast, mister! shakehead

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276621
05/02/07 09:52 AM
05/02/07 09:52 AM

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Excellent and reasonably priced human food grade acacia gum powder is available from http://www.helpforibs.com/shop/suplmts/acacia.asp


Acacia gum provides complex polysacchrides,insoluble fiber, and other digestive benefits.

bee pollen and other Australian honey/flower products: http://www.stakich.com/bfolder/bp1lbaustralian.htm
or
http://www.bulkfoods.com/

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276627
05/02/07 10:06 AM
05/02/07 10:06 AM

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Quote:
Excellent and reasonably priced human food grade acacia gum powder is available from http://www.helpforibs.com/shop/suplmts/acacia.asp


Acacia gum provides complex polysacchrides,insoluble fiber, and other digestive benefits.


Great smile Perhaps it's a typo, but I should quickly mention that I believe the link you provided, Jungleflockmom, offers Acacia providing SOLUBLE fibre, as opposed to insoluble fibre. Infact, if I'm not mistaken, Acacia's fibre is generally and predominantly soluble, and is never insoluble.

Mikey dance

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276636
05/02/07 10:20 AM
05/02/07 10:20 AM

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Hey, Mikey, you got any info on the difference between the Acacia gum v/s Australian gum? I read somewhere (read so much yesterday, it got jumbled in my head) that the Australian gum has tannins in it, but I thought that tannins were in grapes which is what causes liver failure in dogs...Maybe not...I like to lie a lot ( smile Not really, but that's what I say about myself when I'm not sure about something).

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276647
05/02/07 10:29 AM
05/02/07 10:29 AM

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lol Tannins?! I thought the "grape-liver-dead dog" controversy occurred from chemicals on the grapes, and not from the grapes themselves. Tannins are in a lot of things that gliders eat safely, including pomegranite, berries, and fruits like persimmons. I don't think tannins are an issue.

Also, tannins do indeed exist in Australian acacia gum, and it's interesting because I've always wondered if the failure to provide tannin-rich foods like acacia in the diets of our North American pet gliders was responsible for the seemingly common glider deaths due to iron poisoning in the liver.

You see, it turns out that tannins when ingested in significant quantities inhibit the absorption of certain metallic substances like iron, and we all know how big of a problem iron poisoning in the liver is for our North American home gliders who for some peculiar reason can't seem to handle iron well...

QUESTION for those who actually do necropsies - Has anyone who has fed their gliders Acacia gum had gliders die from iron liver poisoning?

...which brings us all back to the benefits of incorporating a diet using food stuffs that our gliders have evolved over millions and millions of years to feed from and digest. The gliders themselves are simply an evolutionary product of their geologically/ecologically secluded and thus specific environment over time, and if we remove them from that environment, we can't expect the transition to always be easy and problem-free if we're feeding them digestively foreign foods. Just my two cents, as usual.

wink

Mikey dance

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276656
05/02/07 10:47 AM
05/02/07 10:47 AM

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Mikey, you usually put in a dollar, not two cents! smile

But, that's why i'm glad you're posting because I get the impression you do a lot of research on biology in general.

Suggies can eat pomegranate! Huh, I wondered about that because I love them on salads, but I wasn't sure about feeding to suggies since they're technically seeds...

So, tannins are beneficial. I've got some reading to do. How can I get my hands on that article that you referenced regarding their digestive system? What publication published it?

Thanks for the links Jungleflock mom!

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276660
05/02/07 10:52 AM
05/02/07 10:52 AM

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I don't know if GC promotes pomegranite, but I've fed it safely. You just remove the seeds. It does get messy, though and it stains like crazy!

What article on the digestive system? That was simply my take on things, just generally and not even just for gliders but that would apply to all animals that come from a geologically secluded region.

But don't take my word for it...(Reading Rainbow)

Ask Pockets what she thinks...

I also highly recommend reading Ian Humes' Marsupial Nutrition if you were interested in that dimension. It was my Glider Bible for a long while.

Mikey dance

PS - one inherited turtle? LOL! What does that mean?

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276683
05/02/07 11:18 AM
05/02/07 11:18 AM

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Remove the seeds...I don't think I'm that dextrous!

Quote:
But don't take my word for it...(Reading Rainbow)
Oh no you didn't! smile

I think that Marsupial Nutrition is what I was refering to so I will try to dig that up somewhere. Thanks!

One inherited turtle means that he came with the house that I bought! I'm a huge animal lover so it was ironic that I bought a house that came with another animal. The guy had one of the small pre-formed ponds outside for him (named [censored] by previous owner). I have since added a low fencing for him to be able to roam and get some sun and a pump which he absolutely loves to sit in front of! He is very happy now. I never knew they had so much personality!

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276850
05/02/07 02:37 PM
05/02/07 02:37 PM

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In case anyone else is interested, here's a thing about Acacia seeds being high in protein.
acacia seeds

Another site regarding Acacia gum
Acacia gum

Last edited by Leisl; 05/02/07 02:49 PM.
Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276892
05/02/07 03:37 PM
05/02/07 03:37 PM

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Oh ok! I thought maybe you had a relative pass away and inherited their 130 year old tortoise. lol

Mikey dance

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #276899
05/02/07 03:44 PM
05/02/07 03:44 PM

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MAN! That sounds so much more interesting!

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #277553
05/03/07 10:38 AM
05/03/07 10:38 AM

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Hi, I'm in the UK - do you know of anywhere I could get some acacia gum and bee pollen over here?
Many thanks

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #277561
05/03/07 10:46 AM
05/03/07 10:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,579
Sherman, Texas
MizValorie Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,579
Sherman, Texas
Pea, PM sent.


Valorie and our 10 fur children

RIP Mary Kate
Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: MizValorie] #282735
05/09/07 11:13 AM
05/09/07 11:13 AM

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Mikey, thanks for the gentle correction. I did mean "soluble" fiber. That's why it dissolves so easily in water, glider mush, etc.

Eucalypts also contain tannins. There are quite a few animals and birds that have evolved to eat these plants and beneficiously utilize the tannins.

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #282748
05/09/07 11:37 AM
05/09/07 11:37 AM

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So, would it be better to feed Australian gum as opposed to Acacia gum?

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #283146
05/09/07 05:59 PM
05/09/07 05:59 PM

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Australian Acacia Gum vs Arabic Acacia Gum you mean?

Mikey dance

Re: Bee pollen and Acacia Gum [Re: ] #283256
05/09/07 08:31 PM
05/09/07 08:31 PM

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honestly I can't tell you the difference in acacia gum (dried) from any different sources, but as I learn more in my dietetics studies (human) I will find out if there is a way to get that information... it has been a question for awhile.. but I know I have fed our gliders acacia from day 1 and when I briefly didn't while doing some dietary changes, they had pooing issues, which went away as soon as I added it back in (some had very soft pellets and some very hard ones).

I take acacia as a human fiber supplement and find it immensely helpful for me as well.. actually have been doing that since LONG before I had gliders... I am the one who told several people about ordering it from helpforibs by the pound rather then exotic nutrition where it is in smaller but pricier packaging...

Acacia is also a prebiotic, and as such helps regulate the enzymes and natural bacteria in the digestive tract as well.. and seems to do wonders for both humans and gliders alike.

Amie
Amie


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